Wiseman will make us worse

[ILOVEIT]

Posted this on another thread but seems relative here.

Would Ayton make the Warriors worse?

How is this a reasonable comparison to make?

I think the comparison is just that the premise of the thread is Wiseman makes the Warriors worse, would the same be true of Ayton. The interesting part of that is that it may not be a Wiseman specific issue but more an issue with big players wanting the ball.

Thank you. Yep...that's what I meant.

[michaelm]

He won’t because they want the title this year and he won’t get the minutes if he is a negative player for GSW.

[ILOVEIT]

In the end...man I hope he plays some minutes and is able to lock down the middle defensively and cause problems on the offensive boards. That would icing on the cake for this year.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Send him to the gleague and not run any plays for him. Let him learn to control the boards, protect the rim, etc.. He needs to know how to impact the game with his size without needing a 25 usg and empty points.,

[watch1958]

The other thing I want from him is to develop one or two reasonably efficient & quick moves near the rim.

Not for them to run as set plays, and not dribble dribble back down stuff.

Instead, quick hits to bail them out late in the clock.

Like David West used to do, except from 4 feet instead of 18.

[Mac1958]

He has all the tools needed to be an elite shot-blocker, rim runner and rebounder. With this team, that would be UNFAIR.

But that leaves the question: Are those skills teachable, or are they innate? And, are they focusing on them right now?

[GSWFan1994]

I have utmost confidence in our coaching staff, and think Wiseman will improve by leaps & bounds over the next few months.

1. Be healthy.
2. Trust the coaches.
3. Work hard.
4. Profit.

[sonnyhill]

Can Wiseman do what Looney does, but with more athleticism and a larger "catch radius" when in the dunker's spot? If so, then Wiseman will be a positive for this team.

It is a bit "concerning-frightening," however, watching Wiseman last season consistently losing rebounding battles and as an "on ball/on his man" defensive matchups, too.

[Samurai]

In the end...man I hope he plays some minutes and is able to lock down the middle defensively and cause problems on the offensive boards. That would icing on the cake for this year.

Again, he wasn't a bad offensive rebounder last season. He wasn't elite but his ORB% was higher than guys like Simmons, Giannis and Siakam. I know that's not a big deal but at least its better than if he were lower than them. Whether he can improve on his offensive rebounding this season is more a matter of Kerr's system; if Kerr continues to have him standing at the 3-point line then no, he's not going to be creating more problems on the offensive glass but that's not necessarily Wiseman's fault. If Kerr has him closer to the rim in the dunker's spot, then Wiseman should be a bigger factor on the offensive glass and it would be Wiseman's responsibility to take advantage of that.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

What do we need Wiseman for?
We don't seem to need him for rebounding. We are doing very well at rebounding without him.

We don't need Wiseman at all this year. We need Wiseman to be an all star three years from now, so that we can contend with championships with Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiggins, Poole and Kuminga as Wiseman's sidekicks while Wiseman is the man. I am talking about
Wiseman in the Batman role with Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiggins, Poole and Kuminga as 6 Robins and Moody as a helping hand,


When wiseman's shooting reaches peak Channing Frye level then I would want him for floor spacing. I really believe that Wiseman may end up being an elite outside shooting big man, but not this year. Our offense runs too well to give Wiseman the green light from the outside. Maybe I could give Wiseman the green light when Curry sits to create space for Poole inside.

I was thinking that we needed Wiseman for shot blocking; but we are not doing horrible; we are number 13 in shot blocking. I still think shotblocking is Wiseman's best chance to contribute this year. But that's only if Wiseman can figure out when to go for the shot block and when to maintain a good defensive position. You can't be slow thinking when it comes to shot blocking. You have to see the opportunity coming and go for it. At this point I'm not sure that Wiseman can read anything developing before it actually happens.

One nice thing for Wiseman is that it is OK if he fouls out. He is free to be aggressive. But I don't know that he is aggressive by nature. I think he woukd rather not make mistakes than be aggressive.

Then there is rim running. Rim running may entertain the fans but is it really any significance in winning? Remember the 2014 Clippers that beat us. Would they attend any worse if Blake Griffin was a different kind of scorer. On defense they needed Blake Griffin to be a big man but on offense suppose Blake Griffin played more of a peak Carmelo Anthony game and couldn't Dunk at all; wouldn't that have just made the clippers better?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Can Wiseman do what Looney does, but with more athleticism and a larger "catch radius" when in the dunker's spot? If so, then Wiseman will be a positive for this team.

It is a bit "concerning-frightening," however, watching Wiseman last season consistently losing rebounding battles and as an "on ball/on his man" defensive matchups, too.

When did it become apparent that Looney had a high basketball IQ? I think I figured out he had a high basketball IQ in 2018-19
I never saw Looney at UCLA but I hear that he had a good feel for the game.

Like Wiseman Looney spent a lot of time being injured when all he could do was watch film and be coached. I know that I have been book smart and could do well on IQ tests and I think that might translate a bit into coaching IQ but, I have very little evidence that my book smarts ever translated into common sense or that my book smarts would have any use at all on the basketball floor. I can read traffic, little hints at movements in the cars ahead of me enable me to have fore-knowledge what is about to happen ahead of me on the road; but I have spent a hell of a lot of time on the road so I think my ability to read traffic is from experience. I don't think there's any intellectual substitute for experience.

I am glad that Wiseman comes accross as an intelligent young man. I'm glad that Wiseman is not Marvin Barnes but Wiseman needs what Marvin Barnes had if he ever is going to be a great player. (Marvin Barnes =, Think Dennis Rodman and Ron Artest Evan Mobley and but with a much worse attitude and worse personel problems)

[Scoots1994]

What do we need Wiseman for?
We don't seem to need him for rebounding. We are doing very well at rebounding without him.

We don't need Wiseman at all this year. We need Wiseman to be an all star three years from now, so that we can contend with championships with Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiggins, Poole and Kuminga as Wiseman's sidekicks while Wiseman is the man. I am talking about
Wiseman in the Batman role with Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiggins, Poole and Kuminga as 6 Robins and Moody as a helping hand,


When wiseman's shooting reaches peak Channing Frye level then I would want him for floor spacing. I really believe that Wiseman may end up being an elite outside shooting big man, but not this year. Our offense runs too well to give Wiseman the green light from the outside. Maybe I could give Wiseman the green light when Curry sits to create space for Poole inside.

I was thinking that we needed Wiseman for shot blocking; but we are not doing horrible; we are number 13 in shot blocking. I still think shotblocking is Wiseman's best chance to contribute this year. But that's only if Wiseman can figure out when to go for the shot block and when to maintain a good defensive position. You can't be slow thinking when it comes to shot blocking. You have to see the opportunity coming and go for it. At this point I'm not sure that Wiseman can read anything developing before it actually happens.

One nice thing for Wiseman is that it is OK if he fouls out. He is free to be aggressive. But I don't know that he is aggressive by nature. I think he woukd rather not make mistakes than be aggressive.

Then there is rim running. Rim running may entertain the fans but is it really any significance in winning? Remember the 2014 Clippers that beat us. Would they attend any worse if Blake Griffin was a different kind of scorer. On defense they needed Blake Griffin to be a big man but on offense suppose Blake Griffin played more of a peak Carmelo Anthony game and couldn't Dunk at all; wouldn't that have just made the clippers better?

The problem with your logic is basically that as long as a team has a winning record adding any new player is "not needed" ... GP2 was "not needed" but he's proven to be far more valuable than pretty much anybody expected.

It's possible Wiseman will make the difference between winning and losing minutes based on the matchup because he, like GP2, can do things other players on the Warriors struggle to do.

Whether he can actually do that or not is what is discovered with time on the court, much like GP2, Poole, and Kuminga have been trying to do.

[wco81]

Draymond, Looney and Bjelica all have to bang against bigger centers.

If they don't get injured, they will wear down over the course of the season.

Then they won't really have a choice not to give JW some minutes.

But do you try to find minutes for him, minimize his negative impact, to preserve the others who play center, so that they're not more liable to injury or breaking down?

[a8bil]

One of my biggest concerns about Wiseman is how low he played...a guy like that needs to keep the ball high. Down low he's going to be prone to turnovers, but his consistent default was to bring the ball down to waist level.

[shazam_guy]

How do all the other 7-footers in the NBA manage to survive without fans to tell them how to play? Boy, Wiseman is lucky.

[and1GS]

One of my biggest concerns about Wiseman is how low he played...a guy like that needs to keep the ball high. Down low he's going to be prone to turnovers, but his consistent default was to bring the ball down to waist level.

It's an adjustment you see most big men need to make, same issue as his ball handling. Growing up he could do that ****, now as an NBA 5 you probably shouldn't try hot dogging it as it's way too easy for a guard to steal it. He'll figure that part of the game out quickly now that he'll have a properly defined role.