WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

[Old_Blue]

Curry was "injury prone". Should have moved him early.

Curry has always had an unquestionable NBA level strength - his shooting. If Wiseman has one, he's keeping it a guarded secret.

There were tons of people who didn’t believe in Steph. Tons. Lots of people didn’t think he would make it. Don’t kid yourself.

Nobody questioned Steph's outside shot. What they did question was his ballhandling skills and size. Those were legitimate question marks. What exactly are Wiseman's strengths? Other than finding creative ways to get the DNP, has he shown you any one skill at which he excels?

[Mylie10]

The questions for Steph were fully related to his health, or lack there of.....at the time

[Old_Blue]

The questions for Steph were fully related to his health, or lack there of.....at the time

I see you can't answer the question regarding Wiseman's strengths (or lack thereof). Therefore, I'm going back to watching the Chicago-Minny game.

[HiRez]

Curry has always had an unquestionable NBA level strength - his shooting. If Wiseman has one, he's keeping it a guarded secret.

There were tons of people who didn’t believe in Steph. Tons. Lots of people didn’t think he would make it. Don’t kid yourself.

Nobody questioned Steph's outside shot. What they did question was his ballhandling skills and size. Those were legitimate question marks. What exactly are Wiseman's strengths? Other than finding creative ways to get the DNP, has he shown you any one skill at which he excels?

He's over 7 feet tall, can cover a lot of ground in zero or one dribbles, and can dunk. Now you can argue whether that's "skillful", but it's a distinct advantage. He's been feeling more comfortable and moving more decisively and naturally in those situations the last few weeks. With a few train wrecks along the way for sure (although many of those are because he's getting the ball in a bad spot and trying to force it).

In the 2 games just before the injury, he played more aggressively, averaging 15.5 points on 58% shooting, with 8 rebounds, in 24 minutes. I still believe in Wiseman, he was a long way to go but once he stops being nervous and overthinking things, he will beast out. Still has legit abilities to be a very good 2-way center.

You guys have no patience at all, I've got criticisms of Wiseman but he's not a finished product by a long shot. Did you really expect him to come in to the NBA and dominate right away? Y'all are treating him like he's Darko Milicic.

[michaelm]

There were tons of people who didn’t believe in Steph. Tons. Lots of people didn’t think he would make it. Don’t kid yourself.

Nobody questioned Steph's outside shot. What is no they did question was his ballhandling skills and size. Those were legitimate question marks. What exactly are Wiseman's strengths? Other than finding creative ways to get the DNP, has he shown you any one skill at which he excels?

He's over 7 feet tall, can cover a lot of ground in zero or one dribbles, and can dunk. Now you can argue whether that's "skillful", but it's a distinct advantage. He's been feeling more comfortable and moving more decisively and naturally in those situations the last few weeks. With a few train wrecks along the way for sure (although many of those are because he's getting the ball in a bad spot and trying to force it).

In the 2 games just before the injury, he played more aggressively, averaging 15.5 points on 58% shooting, with 8 rebounds, in 24 minutes. I still believe in Wiseman, he was a long way to go but once he stops being nervous and overthinking things, he will beast out. Still has legit abilities to be a very good 2-way center.

You guys have no patience at all, I've got criticisms of Wiseman but he's not a finished product by a long shot. Did you really expect him to come in to the NBA and dominate right away? Y'all are treating him like he's Darko Milicic.

Also has signs of shooting touch, particularly for a 19 year old 7 footer.

I have been on this board for nearly 10 years now and had thought it was a forum for fans of the GSW team and players. Why on earth do people want to death ride Wiseman ?.

[Old_Blue]

I have been on this board for nearly 10 years now and had thought it was a forum for fans of the GSW team and players. Why on earth do people want to death ride Wiseman ?

The criticism isn't unique to this forum. Nor, is it specially prepared for Wiseman. Wiseman is a #2 pick. Expectations (as suggested by the very name of this thread) come with the territory when you're picked that high in the draft. Unfortunately, Wiseman hasn't helped his own cause with on court play that has left much to be desired and off court matters that have brought into question his level of maturity. So, when fans react critically to what they're seeing, it's not because they want to see him fail. Just the opposite. They are passionate in their desire to see him succeed and are frustrated with what they perceive to be less than equal passion on Wiseman's part.

[michaelm]

I have been on this board for nearly 10 years now and had thought it was a forum for fans of the GSW team and players. Why on earth do people want to death ride Wiseman ?

The criticism isn't unique to this forum. Nor, is it specially prepared for Wiseman. Wiseman is a #2 pick. Expectations (as suggested by the very name of this thread) come with the territory when you're picked that high in the draft. Unfortunately, Wiseman hasn't helped his own cause with on court play that has left much to be desired and off court matters that have brought into question his level of maturity. So, when fans react critically to what they're seeing, it's not because they want to see him fail. Just the opposite. They are passionate in their desire to see him succeed and are frustrated with what they perceive to be less than equal passion on Wiseman's part.

He is nineteen. Maybe he was always going to be something of a project and they shouldn’t have used the pick on him because it doesn’t fit with Curry’s window but that is a different argument. Being derided by the fanbase of his own team can’t possibly be helpful.

[michaelm]

Double

[WarriorGM]

I have been on this board for nearly 10 years now and had thought it was a forum for fans of the GSW team and players. Why on earth do people want to death ride Wiseman ?

The criticism isn't unique to this forum. Nor, is it specially prepared for Wiseman. Wiseman is a #2 pick. Expectations (as suggested by the very name of this thread) come with the territory when you're picked that high in the draft. Unfortunately, Wiseman hasn't helped his own cause with on court play that has left much to be desired and off court matters that have brought into question his level of maturity. So, when fans react critically to what they're seeing, it's not because they want to see him fail. Just the opposite. They are passionate in their desire to see him succeed and are frustrated with what they perceive to be less than equal passion on Wiseman's part.

He is nineteen. Maybe he was always going to be something of a project and they shouldn’t have used the pick on him because it doesn’t fit with Curry’s window but that is a different argument. Being derided by the fanbase of his own team can’t possibly be helpful.

I do not want to criticize Wiseman or come here with that in mind. But if you analyze the numbers it's kind of unavoidable to reach certain conclusions. He's not yet quite ready is the nice way to put it which to be fair to him applies to probably 90% of this year's drafted picks. Unfortunately for Wiseman there is added urgency due to Curry's closing window as you have noted. There is a certain level of impatience with Warriors fans such as myself. There are other fans though who have an instinctive reaction to be protective of such a high pick who is a source of big hopes which perhaps you are and that's perfectly understandable.

But for me I'm disinclined to treat him special or put him on some sort of pedestal. From my perspective I'm just looking for someone who clicks with Steph and who is ready to play. Seeing Toscano-Andersen and Bazemore able to complement Curry as I see it are small triumphs which should be more actively sought after. If any of the other developing guys can do similar I'm all for finding out as quickly as possible. That's why I want to see more of Poole, more of Mulder, more of Smailagic, etc. For those who claim they want a more positive spin on things, maybe a silver lining that they can take from this unfortunate situation is that other player are going to have more opportunity to play and we're more likely to find out if they have something to contribute.

For contrast to Wiseman let's talk about Smailagic for a moment here. I sense that he's being derided in a truer sense of that word than Wiseman is by a far wider segment of the Warriors fanbase. Are you taking the time to post in his defense and tell other fans that such criticism isn't helpful to his development? Since Wiseman hasn't exactly shown he's an NBA player yet who is to say Smailagic doesn't have as much potential as Wiseman? But he's benched and Wiseman has been playing due to the prestige of being a top pick and Kerr favoritism. Recognize that on balance Wiseman is getting the benefit of the doubt. He isn't being derided.

[michaelm]

h

The criticism isn't unique to this forum. Nor, is it specially prepared for Wiseman. Wiseman is a #2 pick. Expectations (as suggested by the very name of this thread) come with the territory when you're picked that high in the draft. Unfortunately, Wiseman hasn't helped his own cause with on court play that has left much to be desired and off court matters that have brought into question his level of maturity. So, when fans react critically to what they're seeing, it's not because they want to see him fail. Just the opposite. They are passionate in their desire to see him succeed and are frustrated with what they perceive to be less than equal passion on Wiseman's part.

He is nineteen. Maybe he was always going to be something of a project and they shouldn’t have used the pick on him because it doesn’t fit with Curry’s window but that is a different argument. Being derided by the fanbase of his own team can’t possibly be helpful.

I do not want to criticize Wiseman or come here with that in mind. But if you analyze the numbers it's kind of unavoidable to reach certain conclusions. He's not yet quite ready is the nice way to put it which to be fair to him applies to probably 90% of this year's drafted picks. Unfortunately for Wiseman there is added urgency due to Curry's closing window as you have noted. There is a certain level of impatience with Warriors fans such as myself. There are other fans though who have an instinctive reaction to be protective of such a high pick who is a source of big hopes which perhaps you are and that's perfectly understandable.

But for me I'm disinclined to treat him special or put him on some sort of pedestal. From my perspective I'm just looking for someone who clicks with Steph and who is ready to play. Seeing Toscano-Andersen and Bazemore able to complement Curry as I see it are small triumphs which should be more actively sought after. If any of the other developing guys can do similar I'm all for finding out as quickly as possible. That's why I want to see more of Poole, more of Mulder, more of Smailagic, etc. For those who claim they want a more positive spin on things, maybe a silver lining that they can take from this unfortunate situation is that other player are going to have more opportunity to play and we're more likely to find out if they have something to contribute.

For contrast to Wiseman let's talk about Smailagic for a moment here. I sense that he's being derided in a truer sense of that word than Wiseman is by a far wider segment of the Warriors fanbase. Are you taking the time to post in his defense and tell other fans that such criticism isn't helpful to his development? Since Wiseman hasn't exactly shown he's an NBA player yet who is to say Smailagic doesn't have as much potential as Wiseman? But he's benched and Wiseman has been playing due to the prestige of being a top pick and Kerr favoritism. Recognize that on balance Wiseman is getting the benefit of the doubt. He isn't being derided.

I actually wasn’t intending to refer to you, numbering you among those who argue the pick shouldn’t have been used on him due to timelines, which as I have said i don’t regard as an unreasonable position.

I don’t know much about Smallagic, but haven’t derided him and wouldn’t deride him, either.

[Sleepy51]

Curry was "injury prone". Should have moved him early.

Glass ankles

Another whiff by the front office!

Yeah, that was pretty much me. We all have our turdburger takes. In my defense, I was accustomed to things not going well in Warriorland for going on 40 years

[clyde21]

I have been on this board for nearly 10 years now and had thought it was a forum for fans of the GSW team and players. Why on earth do people want to death ride Wiseman ?

The criticism isn't unique to this forum. Nor, is it specially prepared for Wiseman. Wiseman is a #2 pick. Expectations (as suggested by the very name of this thread) come with the territory when you're picked that high in the draft. Unfortunately, Wiseman hasn't helped his own cause with on court play that has left much to be desired and off court matters that have brought into question his level of maturity. So, when fans react critically to what they're seeing, it's not because they want to see him fail. Just the opposite. They are passionate in their desire to see him succeed and are frustrated with what they perceive to be less than equal passion on Wiseman's part.

He is nineteen. Maybe he was always going to be something of a project and they shouldn’t have used the pick on him because it doesn’t fit with Curry’s window but that is a different argument. Being derided by the fanbase of his own team can’t possibly be helpful.

they shouldn't have used the pick on him because a player like Wiseman doesn't make sense in this offense, not because he doesn't fit in Steph's window. a rookie that does fit this scheme and personnel will also fit in Stephs window.

not sure how many times needs to be repeated.

[KevinMcreynolds]

He’s going to be a really good player, but I’m in agreement now that he was the wrong pick. He’s way too raw for our current makeup. He probably won’t contribute to winning till 2023 and Steph will be 35. Front offices probably thought the same thing about Lamelo though too because he was playing GQ Slopball in the NBL.

[GQ Hot Dog]

All the groaning and gnashing of teeth regarding Wiseman makes no sense to me. From the moment we all started paying attention to the draft there were mainly two opinions here on Wiseman.

One camp thought he was a sure thing and all Kerr needed to do was to have the guts to play him until he had figured it out. This camp had hope that his talent would be so dominant that his mistakes would be overshadowed. This camp flirted with the idea that he was such a natural that he would come in and be a David Robinson/KG the moment he set foot on the court, a perennial All-Star and first ballot HoFer upon arrival.

The other camp thought he was a talented guy(although a little slow-footed and ponderous compared to talents like Evan Mobley, after watching their HS battle) but that he would come in so raw that he would foul at an alarming rate, mess up every defensive rotation and be made to look foolish getting switched on to quality NBA guards. The hope of this camp was that by the end of the season he would be serviceable as a screen-setter, rim-runner and rebounder.

I think the second camp has been pretty obviously proven right. My question for the first camp is why didn't the footage against Mobley prove this guy wasn't going to come in ready to play? That his talent is solid but flawed. He's slow. He's not plodding, there's a smoothness and fluidity to the way he moves. He's got some natural coordination, balance and body control...but he's slow. I knew right away upon watching the limited footage of him that his lack of quickness was going to put a ceiling on him that the best big men don't have.

Wiseman can still be a very good center but he's not talented enough to ever be an All-Star I don't think. He'll never beat out Jokic or KAT in the West because he doesn't possess their quickness. He's never going to get his man off balance with an up fake and then cross over into a driving dunk or push shot. He's never going to be the focal point of an offense but he can still be a useful cog in our offense and I look forward to seeing his improvement after an off season of weight work.

[GSWFan1994]

Every time I come in this board I scan a dozen WarriorGM posts who are all basically "I was right all along guys, told you so".

[SAKURABA216]

The silver lining here is that maybe teams will be scared off from drafting another big in the top 3 and Mobley will fall to us at 4.

[EvanZ]

LaMelo is clearly worth more than wiseman and his value is still excellent regardless of injury. But Wiseman can have a bigger impact on winning if he turns into at least an average defensive player.

lol no this is 2021 bro, not 1991

[HiRez]

The silver lining here is that maybe teams will be scared off from drafting another big in the top 3 and Mobley will fall to us at 4.

Hah, I was thinking if Mobley dropped, it would scare US off of picking another big. Remember Okongwu and Toppin missed time due to injury this year as well, not to mention our own long history with big issues...Looney, Bogut, Ezeli, Chriss, Taft, etc.

It’s interesting though, there’s a common belief (which I’m also guilty of) that big men are more injury prone than smaller players. But I saw an analysis the other day that shows there’s essentially no correlation between NBA player height and days missed due to injury.

[SAKURABA216]

The silver lining here is that maybe teams will be scared off from drafting another big in the top 3 and Mobley will fall to us at 4.

Hah, I was thinking if Mobley dropped, it would scare US off of picking another big. Remember Okongwu and Toppin missed time due to injury this year as well, not to mention our own long history with big issues...Looney, Bogut, Ezeli, Chriss, Taft, etc.

It’s interesting though, there’s a common belief (which I’m also guilty of) that big men are more injury prone than smaller players. But I saw an analysis the other day that shows there’s essentially no correlation between NBA player height and days missed due to injury.

No way, we need to double down lol.

But you are probably right. The Warriors kind of went away from their identity when they drafted Wiseman by not prioritizing guards and wings. If we stuck to the blue print and drafted LaMelo and signed Dwight or even Drummond we might be the #4 seed. We have no clue how to develop bigs and can't teach them to defend pick and rolls or even run the pick and roll on offense. By getting an older player they at least know how to do these things.

[Mac1958]

You guys have no patience at all, I've got criticisms of Wiseman but he's not a finished product by a long shot. Did you really expect him to come in to the NBA and dominate right away? Y'all are treating him like he's Darko Milicic.