Around the NBA III
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Re: Around the NBA III
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Re: Around the NBA III
Not really.
That year, Hardaway, who was the leader of the team, tore his knee in the preseason and was out.
So it became Spree and Webber's team. They had a good regular season and then got beat down badly in Phoenix in the playoffs.
But Spree and Webber got huge heads and when Hardaway came back, he was on the outside and eventually was traded away.
That team was going to be a treadmill team. No way Spree and Webber were going to be coachable or take the team to the next level.
That year, Hardaway, who was the leader of the team, tore his knee in the preseason and was out.
So it became Spree and Webber's team. They had a good regular season and then got beat down badly in Phoenix in the playoffs.
But Spree and Webber got huge heads and when Hardaway came back, he was on the outside and eventually was traded away.
That team was going to be a treadmill team. No way Spree and Webber were going to be coachable or take the team to the next level.
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wco81 wrote:That team was going to be a treadmill team. No way Spree and Webber were going to be coachable or take the team to the next level.
Your probably right, but every player is coach-able, you just need to find the right personality to inspire them. One of Chris Cohan's biggest downfalls was his inability to put together top class people within his organisation, including coaches. Spree, Webber, Mullin and co could have worked, but it needed leadership from up top which was non existent at the time.
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Re: Around the NBA III
In the Gigantic "Who Gives An Eff!" Mo Williams might retire...lol
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Re: Around the NBA III
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Re: Around the NBA III
I like the Pelicans' signing of Stephenson. Only 100k guaranteed and you get a guy who is motivated to play and supposedly make amends.
Re: Around the NBA III
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Left*My*Heart wrote:I like the Pelicans' signing of Stephenson. Only 100k guaranteed and you get a guy who is motivated to play and supposedly make amends.
They need play makers so I guess it makes sense.
Re: Around the NBA III
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Re: Around the NBA III
The Whole tale is a strange blend of MacBeth, a Daytime Soap and a Psych major term paper. Nellie wanted fast moving offense and so RUN TMC happened. He had Marchulonis and drafted Sprewell.. who at the time was quick, had wingspan.. looked good on D. the relentless chucker headcase.....came later. Nellie was BIG on guards,wings never trusted bigs. Tyrone Hill was a TOUGH rebounder.. with ball skills nd hands a lot like Festus. Vic Alexander was like Mo Speights but heavier and slower. Big Vic could shoot from midrange,had nice fundamentals on offense. But..real limits.Left*My*Heart wrote:I blame both Webber and Nellie for the situation. That was the beginning of dark days that took a very long time to heal from. Cohan sucks. FO sided with Nellie and then Nellie resigns.
I truly believe if both guys could have worked together and Webber wasn't such a prima donna, I actually think Webber would have ended up having a better career.
Sprewelll is mental and I sort of feel bad for the guy. I think I would have choked out Carlesimo. That was just a bad deal and an even worse period of time for the Warriors.
The OPPORTUNITY was out there to get Webber.....who's YOUNG.. with a real interesting mix of skills and size. At the time the RULES were much different. There was no real cap and no set " rookie deal" . So,Nellie REALLY likes the idea of Bigs who can run AND pass. He trades Hill for a pick, because.. Webber will COST. He trades Penny Hardaway and 3 future #1's for Webber.
Then.. to get the $ inside cheapo Cohen's limits, Webber's deal has an OPT OUT. Okay...Webber is a young guy the Warriors annointed as a basketball GOD....it went to his head. Meanwhile.... Webber/Owens/Sprewell.. become a posse, a clique. Hardaway has injury troubles and is more "team Guy" than Posse guy. The whole MacBeth/Soap oOpera thing is snowballing. Webber wants to be a PF.. not a C. Hill is gone so.. can't do C. The Posse wants to get rid of Mullin....the face of the franchise. Is there a RACIAL aspect? Hell yes.. but nobody wants to say so (not yet). Next....the Richmond/Owens deal for some franchises would be WORST trade ever. For the Warriors? Maybe top 10. GSW flipped Owens for Seikally. The REST of the POSSE.. hated that.
Not only was Mullin still the "star" but.. Owens was replaced by a GREEK C? Well.... the chemistry was NOT good.
Then....Webber is gonna opt out. GSW salvages (sort of) flipping him for Gugliotta and 3 picks. Turns out those Washington picks will be a lot lower than the 3 GSW lost to get Webber...... but the Soap Opera ain't over yet. Sprewell..... has become a "star" but also a nutcase with an AGENDA. Spree HAD been a good passer but now if forced to pass.. he throws it at the ankles of Gugliotta or Seikally. That became such a pattern I'd yell at the TV. I REALLY hoped GSW would trade him ASAP. No such luck.
GSW traded Mullin and Gugliotta and Hardaway and Seikally......kept Spree along with the junk they got in bad deals. Nellie.. would still DRAFT big men.. but would have them on a VERY short least. Nellie was a dead end, got replaced by "coach of the Month Club" and GSW was Spree and.... guys you could not even give away.. plus.....high pick bigs the Coaches failed to develop. To be Fair.. Lanier was okay.. He DID give bigs a shot.. Spree by then was trying to sabotage the COACH.....went into.. ball hog and zero defence. That got rewarded when Lanier was replaced. Few can recall the next few coaches then Carlisimo go choked.
The UPSIDE.. was FINALLY GSW dumped Spree. They got guys who.. at best were over the hill. At worst...limited guys paid too much (untradeable)
You youngsters may not know basketball hell. GSW was ALL in that. Bad draft, bad coach, crazy players, inept ownership, terrible trades (so many...so many) and....you get decades of fail.
You KNEW you were STUCK with guys you traded GOOD PLAYERS to get.. who sucked. You knew the Coach and GM could not together find a clue. Cohen......hardly got involved and ..clueless. Picture you are chest deep in quicksand and yelling help. A guy shows up.. does he toss you a rope? no he tosses you a bowling ball. For GSW that was Nellie Act 2. I don't need to detail that.. except that by then SMALLBALL was a fetish for Nellie. It no longer was about fast tempo and skills.. it was about trying to play 4 guards and Biedrins.
CENSORED... No comment.
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Re: Around the NBA III
old rem wrote:The Whole tale is a strange blend of MacBeth, a Daytime Soap and a Psych major term paper. Nellie wanted fast moving offense and so RUN TMC happened. He had Marchulonis and drafted Sprewell.. who at the time was quick, had wingspan.. looked good on D. the relentless chucker headcase.....came later. Nellie was BIG on guards,wings never trusted bigs. Tyrone Hill was a TOUGH rebounder.. with ball skills nd hands a lot like Festus. Vic Alexander was like Mo Speights but heavier and slower. Big Vic could shoot from midrange,had nice fundamentals on offense. But..real limits.Left*My*Heart wrote:I blame both Webber and Nellie for the situation. That was the beginning of dark days that took a very long time to heal from. Cohan sucks. FO sided with Nellie and then Nellie resigns.
I truly believe if both guys could have worked together and Webber wasn't such a prima donna, I actually think Webber would have ended up having a better career.
Sprewelll is mental and I sort of feel bad for the guy. I think I would have choked out Carlesimo. That was just a bad deal and an even worse period of time for the Warriors.
The OPPORTUNITY was out there to get Webber.....who's YOUNG.. with a real interesting mix of skills and size. At the time the RULES were much different. There was no real cap and no set " rookie deal" . So,Nellie REALLY likes the idea of Bigs who can run AND pass. He trades Hill for a pick, because.. Webber will COST. He trades Penny Hardaway and 3 future #1's for Webber.
Then.. to get the $ inside cheapo Cohen's limits, Webber's deal has an OPT OUT. Okay...Webber is a young guy the Warriors annointed as a basketball GOD....it went to his head. Meanwhile.... Webber/Owens/Sprewell.. become a posse, a clique. Hardaway has injury troubles and is more "team Guy" than Posse guy. The whole MacBeth/Soap oOpera thing is snowballing. Webber wants to be a PF.. not a C. Hill is gone so.. can't do C. The Posse wants to get rid of Mullin....the face of the franchise. Is there a RACIAL aspect? Hell yes.. but nobody wants to say so (not yet). Next....the Richmond/Owens deal for some franchises would be WORST trade ever. For the Warriors? Maybe top 10. GSW flipped Owens for Seikally. The REST of the POSSE.. hated that.
Not only was Mullin still the "star" but.. Owens was replaced by a GREEK C? Well.... the chemistry was NOT good.
Then....Webber is gonna opt out. GSW salvages (sort of) flipping him for Gugliotta and 3 picks. Turns out those Washington picks will be a lot lower than the 3 GSW lost to get Webber...... but the Soap Opera ain't over yet. Sprewell..... has become a "star" but also a nutcase with an AGENDA. Spree HAD been a good passer but now if forced to pass.. he throws it at the ankles of Gugliotta or Seikally. That became such a pattern I'd yell at the TV. I REALLY hoped GSW would trade him ASAP. No such luck.
GSW traded Mullin and Gugliotta and Hardaway and Seikally......kept Spree along with the junk they got in bad deals. Nellie.. would still DRAFT big men.. but would have them on a VERY short least. Nellie was a dead end, got replaced by "coach of the Month Club" and GSW was Spree and.... guys you could not even give away.. plus.....high pick bigs the Coaches failed to develop. To be Fair.. Lanier was okay.. He DID give bigs a shot.. Spree by then was trying to sabotage the COACH.....went into.. ball hog and zero defence. That got rewarded when Lanier was replaced. Few can recall the next few coaches then Carlisimo go choked.
The UPSIDE.. was FINALLY GSW dumped Spree. They got guys who.. at best were over the hill. At worst...limited guys paid too much (untradeable)
You youngsters may not know basketball hell. GSW was ALL in that. Bad draft, bad coach, crazy players, inept ownership, terrible trades (so many...so many) and....you get decades of fail.
You KNEW you were STUCK with guys you traded GOOD PLAYERS to get.. who sucked. You knew the Coach and GM could not together find a clue. Cohen......hardly got involved and ..clueless. Picture you are chest deep in quicksand and yelling help. A guy shows up.. does he toss you a rope? no he tosses you a bowling ball. For GSW that was Nellie Act 2. I don't need to detail that.. except that by then SMALLBALL was a fetish for Nellie. It no longer was about fast tempo and skills.. it was about trying to play 4 guards and Biedrins.
I have actually talked to Nellie and I think the idea that he hates big men is nonsense. He is about what the Warriors are today, playing your 5 best players regardless of position, which is what makes the Warriors so great. In his prime back with TMC days, he would have loved to have coach the current Warrior team. With Webber, Nelson wanted him at the 5, so he could actually have his 5 best players on the court. We know that Webber did not want to play center and we all know the outcome of that.
Pop has even said that Nelson would have used Duncan better and the time spent under Nelson was really eye opening to him.
Ewing is another example of a big man that Nellie couldn't get along with. I side with Nellie on this head butting, because Nelson wanted Ewing to play inside and stop setting up so far outside the box. He believed that Ewing would be more efficient playing closer to the basket than playing outside, where he could use his size instead of shooting fade-aways and turn around jumpers. Starks was the main reason he was fired, who didn't like being benched after he hurt his knee. There was also a trade of Starks that management shot down that let Starks know his coach was trying to get rid of him. Another surprising player on the Knicks that got upset with Nelson was Mason, who ironically had taken on a lot more playing time and a focal point of the Knicks offense, at point forward. I don't think he had his heart in the Knicks job and was still disappointed how things played out at Golden State.
You bring up the fact Nelson drafted a lot of big men, which shows me he didn't hate them, he knew that was a weakness on his teams. I can only think of a couple of big men that didn't improve under Nelson either and he played them as rookies too.
Not saying the man doesn't have his shortcomings, but you have to give him credit for being a visionary on what a winning formula was. He wanted ball movement, guys capable of playing multiple positions and though there seemed to be chaos at times, he wanted things done his way. Even Webber today said had he stayed and rode through with Nelson, the Warriors would have won a championship together. I also think that Nellie gets a bad rap for so called playing no defense. The most upset I have seen him get was on the defensive side of the house. Though he is a run and gun coach, there was a method behind the madness.
Regarding the Warriors Cohan needs to assume most of the blame. Had he not been so tight with the little money he had, a lot of bad trades made to save money wouldn't have been made. Nelson made some bad trades, no doubt, but Cohan was so cheap IMO that saving money was the main objective.
I thought the second coming of Nellie as being okay, as long as it wasn't for very long. Nelson really gets into his job at the beginning but seems to lose interest after a couple of seasons. Again, we are under Cohan this time around and again it's about saving him money. I knew things wouldn't go well if we were going to extend Nellie beyond two seasons. Let him build a competitive team, then hand it over to someone who can build further upon that. I think the Mavs did that, but they made a mistake in hiring Avery to replace him.
So when you see Draymond running the point, you know who started that concept of the point forward.
Re: Around the NBA III
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Re: Around the NBA III
old rem wrote:The Whole tale is a strange blend of MacBeth, a Daytime Soap and a Psych major term paper. Nellie wanted fast moving offense and so RUN TMC happened. He had Marchulonis and drafted Sprewell.. who at the time was quick, had wingspan.. looked good on D. the relentless chucker headcase.....came later. Nellie was BIG on guards,wings never trusted bigs. Tyrone Hill was a TOUGH rebounder.. with ball skills nd hands a lot like Festus. Vic Alexander was like Mo Speights but heavier and slower. Big Vic could shoot from midrange,had nice fundamentals on offense. But..real limits.Left*My*Heart wrote:I blame both Webber and Nellie for the situation. That was the beginning of dark days that took a very long time to heal from. Cohan sucks. FO sided with Nellie and then Nellie resigns.
I truly believe if both guys could have worked together and Webber wasn't such a prima donna, I actually think Webber would have ended up having a better career.
Sprewelll is mental and I sort of feel bad for the guy. I think I would have choked out Carlesimo. That was just a bad deal and an even worse period of time for the Warriors.
The OPPORTUNITY was out there to get Webber.....who's YOUNG.. with a real interesting mix of skills and size. At the time the RULES were much different. There was no real cap and no set " rookie deal" . So,Nellie REALLY likes the idea of Bigs who can run AND pass. He trades Hill for a pick, because.. Webber will COST. He trades Penny Hardaway and 3 future #1's for Webber.
Then.. to get the $ inside cheapo Cohen's limits, Webber's deal has an OPT OUT. Okay...Webber is a young guy the Warriors annointed as a basketball GOD....it went to his head. Meanwhile.... Webber/Owens/Sprewell.. become a posse, a clique. Hardaway has injury troubles and is more "team Guy" than Posse guy. The whole MacBeth/Soap oOpera thing is snowballing. Webber wants to be a PF.. not a C. Hill is gone so.. can't do C. The Posse wants to get rid of Mullin....the face of the franchise. Is there a RACIAL aspect? Hell yes.. but nobody wants to say so (not yet). Next....the Richmond/Owens deal for some franchises would be WORST trade ever. For the Warriors? Maybe top 10. GSW flipped Owens for Seikally. The REST of the POSSE.. hated that.
Not only was Mullin still the "star" but.. Owens was replaced by a GREEK C? Well.... the chemistry was NOT good.
Then....Webber is gonna opt out. GSW salvages (sort of) flipping him for Gugliotta and 3 picks. Turns out those Washington picks will be a lot lower than the 3 GSW lost to get Webber...... but the Soap Opera ain't over yet. Sprewell..... has become a "star" but also a nutcase with an AGENDA. Spree HAD been a good passer but now if forced to pass.. he throws it at the ankles of Gugliotta or Seikally. That became such a pattern I'd yell at the TV. I REALLY hoped GSW would trade him ASAP. No such luck.
GSW traded Mullin and Gugliotta and Hardaway and Seikally......kept Spree along with the junk they got in bad deals. Nellie.. would still DRAFT big men.. but would have them on a VERY short least. Nellie was a dead end, got replaced by "coach of the Month Club" and GSW was Spree and.... guys you could not even give away.. plus.....high pick bigs the Coaches failed to develop. To be Fair.. Lanier was okay.. He DID give bigs a shot.. Spree by then was trying to sabotage the COACH.....went into.. ball hog and zero defence. That got rewarded when Lanier was replaced. Few can recall the next few coaches then Carlisimo go choked.
The UPSIDE.. was FINALLY GSW dumped Spree. They got guys who.. at best were over the hill. At worst...limited guys paid too much (untradeable)
You youngsters may not know basketball hell. GSW was ALL in that. Bad draft, bad coach, crazy players, inept ownership, terrible trades (so many...so many) and....you get decades of fail.
You KNEW you were STUCK with guys you traded GOOD PLAYERS to get.. who sucked. You knew the Coach and GM could not together find a clue. Cohen......hardly got involved and ..clueless. Picture you are chest deep in quicksand and yelling help. A guy shows up.. does he toss you a rope? no he tosses you a bowling ball. For GSW that was Nellie Act 2. I don't need to detail that.. except that by then SMALLBALL was a fetish for Nellie. It no longer was about fast tempo and skills.. it was about trying to play 4 guards and Biedrins.
Amazing post Remy. For many reasons
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Re: Around the NBA III
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old rem wrote:Picture you are chest deep in quicksand and yelling help. A guy shows up.. does he toss you a rope? no he tosses you a bowling ball. For GSW that was Nellie Act 2.
Solid gold rem.
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Re: Around the NBA III
Coxy wrote:Left*My*Heart wrote:I like the Pelicans' signing of Stephenson. Only 100k guaranteed and you get a guy who is motivated to play and supposedly make amends.
They need play makers so I guess it makes sense.
How many Tyreke Evans' do the want?!
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Re: Around the NBA III
Meanwhile in Sacramento lacking anything resembling a former NBA legend have elected to put up a Pikachu (yes, Pikachu) art sculpture in front of their new arena.
And yes, $2.6 million of Sac's taxpayer's money went towards that...thing.
Can't wait for the Kings to retire Pikachu's jersey. Dude put up elite numbers in the early 2000's.
And yes, $2.6 million of Sac's taxpayer's money went towards that...thing.
Can't wait for the Kings to retire Pikachu's jersey. Dude put up elite numbers in the early 2000's.
Re: Around the NBA III
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510TWSS wrote:Meanwhile in Sacramento lacking anything resembling a former NBA legend have elected to put up a Pikachu (yes, Pikachu) art sculpture in front of their new arena.
And yes, $2.6 million of Sac's taxpayer's money went towards that...thing.
Can't wait for the Kings to retire Pikachu's jersey. Dude put up elite numbers in the early 2000's.
I can't find anything in a google search for this. Do you mean this one just put up in New Orleans?
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Re: Around the NBA III
Coxy wrote:510TWSS wrote:Meanwhile in Sacramento lacking anything resembling a former NBA legend have elected to put up a Pikachu (yes, Pikachu) art sculpture in front of their new arena.
And yes, $2.6 million of Sac's taxpayer's money went towards that...thing.
Can't wait for the Kings to retire Pikachu's jersey. Dude put up elite numbers in the early 2000's.
I can't find anything in a google search for this. Do you mean this one just put up in New Orleans?
http://imgur.com/6ZuM271
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/53i2oj/the_8mill_sculpture_in_front_of_the_kings_new/
Re: Around the NBA III
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510TWSS wrote:Coxy wrote:510TWSS wrote:Meanwhile in Sacramento lacking anything resembling a former NBA legend have elected to put up a Pikachu (yes, Pikachu) art sculpture in front of their new arena.
And yes, $2.6 million of Sac's taxpayer's money went towards that...thing.
Can't wait for the Kings to retire Pikachu's jersey. Dude put up elite numbers in the early 2000's.
I can't find anything in a google search for this. Do you mean this one just put up in New Orleans?
http://imgur.com/6ZuM271
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/53i2oj/the_8mill_sculpture_in_front_of_the_kings_new/
Well, while it seems funny to rail on the Kings for not erecting an Oscar Robertson, Chris Webber, Peja, Vlade or Richmond statue, I don't think that statue is meant to be anything more than a marketing gimmick aimed at a world wide craze. I'm imagining that there is a Poke Stop or Gym on that site for fans to meet up, and the Kings are getting involved with it.
Seems to me nothing more than a member of the Kings marketing team coming up with a clever little initiative to bring their fans closer top their stadium and team.
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Coxy wrote:510TWSS wrote:Coxy wrote:
I can't find anything in a google search for this. Do you mean this one just put up in New Orleans?
http://imgur.com/6ZuM271
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/53i2oj/the_8mill_sculpture_in_front_of_the_kings_new/
Well, while it seems funny to rail on the Kings for not erecting an Oscar Robertson, Chris Webber, Peja, Vlade or Richmond statue, I don't think that statue is meant to be anything more than a marketing gimmick aimed at a world wide craze. I'm imagining that there is a Poke Stop or Gym on that site for fans to meet up, and the Kings are getting involved with it.
Seems to me nothing more than a member of the Kings marketing team coming up with a clever little initiative to bring their fans closer top their stadium and team.
I will never not take the opportunity to rail on the Kings. They used to beat us so bad when I was a younger dumber Dubz fan. I would say they should put the starting 5 from 2001 as a team statue. That was a pretty fun team and would make an awesome looking marble statue.
Re: Around the NBA III
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Re: Around the NBA III
510TWSS wrote:Coxy wrote:
Well, while it seems funny to rail on the Kings for not erecting an Oscar Robertson, Chris Webber, Peja, Vlade or Richmond statue, I don't think that statue is meant to be anything more than a marketing gimmick aimed at a world wide craze. I'm imagining that there is a Poke Stop or Gym on that site for fans to meet up, and the Kings are getting involved with it.
Seems to me nothing more than a member of the Kings marketing team coming up with a clever little initiative to bring their fans closer top their stadium and team.
I will never not take the opportunity to rail on the Kings. They used to beat us so bad when I was a younger dumber Dubz fan. I would say they should put the starting 5 from 2001 as a team statue. That was a pretty fun team and would make an awesome looking marble statue.
how the hell does that thing in front of the new stadium cost $2.5 million?
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Re: Around the NBA III
jamesnamida wrote:510TWSS wrote:Coxy wrote:
Well, while it seems funny to rail on the Kings for not erecting an Oscar Robertson, Chris Webber, Peja, Vlade or Richmond statue, I don't think that statue is meant to be anything more than a marketing gimmick aimed at a world wide craze. I'm imagining that there is a Poke Stop or Gym on that site for fans to meet up, and the Kings are getting involved with it.
Seems to me nothing more than a member of the Kings marketing team coming up with a clever little initiative to bring their fans closer top their stadium and team.
I will never not take the opportunity to rail on the Kings. They used to beat us so bad when I was a younger dumber Dubz fan. I would say they should put the starting 5 from 2001 as a team statue. That was a pretty fun team and would make an awesome looking marble statue.
how the hell does that thing in front of the new stadium cost $2.5 million?
And I believe that's only the amount from public funds. I think it cost $8m overall.
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Re: Around the NBA III
510TWSS wrote:jamesnamida wrote:510TWSS wrote:
I will never not take the opportunity to rail on the Kings. They used to beat us so bad when I was a younger dumber Dubz fan. I would say they should put the starting 5 from 2001 as a team statue. That was a pretty fun team and would make an awesome looking marble statue.
how the hell does that thing in front of the new stadium cost $2.5 million?
And I believe that's only the amount from public funds. I think it cost $8m overall.
I could have built them that for 30K and given them change.
I would have charged them 1.5 mill though, cause you know, they're the Kings......
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Re: Around the NBA III
I can't wait for bird crap to change the patina.
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