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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:55 am
by SAKURABA216
EvanZ wrote:
SAKURABA216 wrote: The Warriors picked Wiseman because I'm sure they felt he had the most trade value and was the easiest player to flip. Their plan all along was to package whoever the pick was with Wiggins and the Minnesota pick for an all-star. Unfortunately nobody was biting.


And this logic also proved wrong! I said at the time they shoulda drafted Melo if they wanted the best asset. Oh well! :lol: :banghead:

Read on Twitter
?s=20

I agree, I wanted to draft LaMelo to flip him as well. I was just saying if Clyde didn’t want LaMelo, and there was a clear top 3 going into the draft and Edwards was picked #1 then there really was no better pick than Wiseman.


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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:34 am
by EvanZ
Jester_ wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Jester_ wrote:
You are literally objectively wrong. I know because of the insane number of barstool conversions I had with my buddies ragging on Bosh throughout year 1.



Barstool wasn't on the internet until 2007. So how was this possible?


Barstool as in actual bar stools in Toronto ya dork


lol literally never heard someone use that expression if they're under like 70 :lol:

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:50 am
by whatisacenter
Jester_ wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Jester_ wrote:
You are literally objectively wrong. I know because of the insane number of barstool conversions I had with my buddies ragging on Bosh throughout year 1.



Barstool wasn't on the internet until 2007. So how was this possible?


Barstool as in actual bar stools in Toronto ya dork


Image

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:03 am
by and1GS
EvanZ wrote:
Jester_ wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Barstool wasn't on the internet until 2007. So how was this possible?


Barstool as in actual bar stools in Toronto ya dork


lol literally never heard someone use that expression if they're under like 70
Are...you being serious?

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:19 am
by Twinkie defense
EvanZ wrote:
Twinkie defense wrote:In contrast with the pre-Lacob Warriors, I actually trust this team to develop raw players.


Why? What raw players have they developed?

Most recently, Poole and Juan Toscano.

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:37 pm
by EvanZ
Twinkie defense wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Twinkie defense wrote:In contrast with the pre-Lacob Warriors, I actually trust this team to develop raw players.


Why? What raw players have they developed?

Most recently, Poole and Juan Toscano.


JTA is 28 years old and Poole is whatever. Not exactly a strong track record if those are your two exemplars.

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:32 am
by Twinkie defense
EvanZ wrote:
Twinkie defense wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Why? What raw players have they developed?

Most recently, Poole and Juan Toscano.


JTA is 28 years old and Poole is whatever. Not exactly a strong track record if those are your two exemplars.

Those are the two most recent. Warriors turned an undrafted four-year Marquette player into a legitimate NBA role player. And turned Jordan Poole from a guy who looked like he would not be long for this League to a dangerous scorer teams scheme against and who ESPN named as a borderline player in their summary of young players with the brightest NBA futures.

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:29 pm
by The-Power
Twinkie defense wrote:Those are the two most recent.

You misunderstood the point of the post. It was ‘show me the raw players that they developed, except for those that did actually develop because I will not acknowledge them’. Poole and JTA developed from terribly raw to solid rotational players. The sudden shift of goalposts (bringing up age for no good reason, or introducing new vague thresholds) doesn't change that.

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:08 pm
by EvanZ
The-Power wrote:
Twinkie defense wrote:Those are the two most recent.

You misunderstood the point of the post. It was ‘show me the raw players that they developed, except for those that did actually develop because I will not acknowledge them’. Poole and JTA developed from terribly raw to solid rotational players. The sudden shift of goalposts (bringing up age for no good reason, or introducing new vague thresholds) doesn't change that.


LOL. You think these two are great examples of developing? I bet you thought Paschall was going to be an All-Star too. :lol:

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:11 pm
by EvanZ
Did they develop Jacob Evans? Damian Jones? Nedovic? I can go on.

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:40 pm
by whatisacenter
EvanZ wrote:
The-Power wrote:
Twinkie defense wrote:Those are the two most recent.

You misunderstood the point of the post. It was ‘show me the raw players that they developed, except for those that did actually develop because I will not acknowledge them’. Poole and JTA developed from terribly raw to solid rotational players. The sudden shift of goalposts (bringing up age for no good reason, or introducing new vague thresholds) doesn't change that.


LOL. You think these two are great examples of developing? I bet you thought Paschall was going to be an All-Star too. :lol:


Is there anything about the Warriors that you do like? Are you a Warriors fan?

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:42 pm
by EvanZ
whatisacenter wrote:Is there anything about the Warriors that you do like? Are you a Warriors fan?


I like good basketball. What I don't like is blind devotion to a front office or bad players simply because they wear the uniform.

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:27 pm
by whatisacenter
EvanZ wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:Is there anything about the Warriors that you do like? Are you a Warriors fan?


I like good basketball. What I don't like is blind devotion to a front office or bad players simply because they wear the uniform.


It was an honest question. Are you a Warriors fan? Is there anything that you like about this team?

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:00 pm
by TB
I feel like the idea of a team being good/bad at developing players is an incredibly overrated topic. Sure, there are coaches/front offices that may treat young players different... but all these teams have the resources for a young player to improve as much as they are capable of doing.

The Warriors didnt "not develop" guys like Jones and Nedovic. They just drafted bad basketball players. Is Poole being developed better or worse than Jacob Evans? No, Poole is just a better player that puts in the work and has the mentality of a player that thinks he should be great.

When Jordan "broke" Kwame, he didn't ruin Kwame's career arc. He was 23 when he got to LA, still plenty of time to figure out what went wrong, and he still just became what he ultimately was always going to be... a big guy without the mentality or work ethic to be anything more than a rotation big body. So maybe he has a slightly better few years early if he gets drafted somewhere that coddles him, but its not like it goes from "jordan broke him" to "wow he's an all star".

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:15 pm
by Jester_
whatisacenter wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:Is there anything about the Warriors that you do like? Are you a Warriors fan?


I like good basketball. What I don't like is blind devotion to a front office or bad players simply because they wear the uniform.


It was an honest question. Are you a Warriors fan? Is there anything that you like about this team?


Not since Ekpe Udoh left :(

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:17 pm
by xdrta+
TB wrote:I feel like the idea of a team being good/bad at developing players is an incredibly overrated topic. Sure, there are coaches/front offices that may treat young players different... but all these teams have the resources for a young player to improve as much as they are capable of doing.


I agree with this. Every team has decent assistant coaches, development coaches, facilities, etc. for players to develop. In the end it's up to the player himself, his talent limits, and the effort he puts into improving.

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:24 pm
by FNQ
TB wrote:I feel like the idea of a team being good/bad at developing players is an incredibly overrated topic. Sure, there are coaches/front offices that may treat young players different... but all these teams have the resources for a young player to improve as much as they are capable of doing.

The Warriors didnt "not develop" guys like Jones and Nedovic. They just drafted bad basketball players. Is Poole being developed better or worse than Jacob Evans? No, Poole is just a better player that puts in the work and has the mentality of a player that thinks he should be great.

When Jordan "broke" Kwame, he didn't ruin Kwame's career arc. He was 23 when he got to LA, still plenty of time to figure out what went wrong, and he still just became what he ultimately was always going to be... a big guy without the mentality or work ethic to be anything more than a rotation big body. So maybe he has a slightly better few years early if he gets drafted somewhere that coddles him, but its not like it goes from "jordan broke him" to "wow he's an all star".


Spot on. I hate when its said that X coach or X team can't develop... that literally only applies if the player excels elsewhere. Talent evaluation isn't the same thing. Just like when people railed on Wiseman's bad hands, and then that crew went dead silent as the game started to slow down a bit for him towards the end of his season. Because it was always reflexes, not hands. These aren't subtle differences when you really talk about the game at a deep level

Have we been maxing our late round draft picks? Not maxing, but we're not doing bad IMO. Last 16 picks we drafted ourselves:

2 lotto picks
6 late 1sts
8 2nd rounders

The two lotto picks: Barnes was a hit, in that he was useful and that there wasn't much behind him. Wiseman, despite all the theatrics, is still very much an 'in progress' situation, though its absolutely fair to say its been a disappointing start

Of the 6 late 1sts, 3 were solid rotation players (Ezeli, Poole, Looney). Ezeli unfortunately derailed by injury, but was still useful. Jones, Evans, and Nedovic were whiffs.

Of the 8 2nds, we got one star player (Draymond), several borderline rotation players (Bell, McCaw, Paschall, Nico), one question mark (Jessup), and a couple total nothings (Smiley, Kuzmic)

That's Myers' drafting history. Unless you are 100% behind burying Wiseman already, what entirely unrealistic expectation did you have for a team that's frequently drafting in the 30s or below?

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:45 pm
by GSWFan1994
Poor Jacob Evans... in any other of the 29 teams, he would be a surefire All-Star.

Shame on our horrible FO & coaching team.

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:49 pm
by EvanZ
GSWFan1994 wrote:Poor Jacob Evans... in any other of the 29 teams, he would be a surefire All-Star.

Shame on our horrible FO & coaching team.


Hard to know if you're joking or not...because the worse you think Jacob Evans was, the more it actually implicates the FO ability to evaluate talent. So...

Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:52 pm
by FNQ
GSWFan1994 wrote:Poor Jacob Evans... in any other of the 29 teams, he would be a surefire All-Star.

Shame on our horrible FO & coaching team.

I mean picking him wasn't great. I was convinced we were after Gary Trent Jr, who wasnt even supposed to be on the board. Then we drafted Evans, I bitched.. ok, but then someone traded up and selected Trent. Score! Had to be us, such an us move.

It was Portland.

Its irrational but I will not let that one go, I still am bothered by that one. But thats a personal thing, I know from a logical standpoint that it was just someone I preferred who happened to hit, and the Warriors were clearly enamored with Evans' ability to... I dunno really. He was just a bad pick from the jump.