WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

[Onus]

Wiseman is going to be fine offensively. He's got good touch around the rim, and he's huge and long. He'll be able to finish down low once he learns his role and someone creates for him. Really on offense it's just learning what to do and where to be. Set screens and let others create for him and he's going to be one of the better finishers in the league. My biggest complaint is how the coaching staff used him this year. They used him as if he's Joel Embiid and really just didn't put any restrictions on him until later in the season, which isn't the role he should be playing next year or really any year as long as Curry is Curry.

[Scoots1994]

Again.... OKC gave up on a crappy rookie whom got groomed and played big in College. He showed even less than Wiseman.

You think OKC wants him back?

I know OKC has let a lot of talent leave that they wish they still had, don't know which teenage big top 2 pick they traded after his rookie season that you are talking about though.

[ahmetmekin]

Not really. We can look at many factors:

Facts:
- Size
- Length
- Speed
- Explosion
- Age

Analysis:
- Dedication/Drive
- Flashes of skill in shooting, handling, defense

Drafting him was no question a risk, but that is done, giving up now when there is still considerable reason to have hope would be flat out stupid. People talk like Wiseman being on the roster is going to hurt the team winning. If he sucks the Warriors don't have to play him no NBA team plays all 15 players in minutes that matter, but to not give him anything close to an offseason/minicamps/coaching/time to learn as a teenage big? That's just nuts.

There is no flashes of any skill. He is not doing anything at a respectable rate. He is a horrendous player on both sides. He is tall, I will give you that. It will definitely hurt the team like this year if he plays.

He's inconsistent and often lost and those things hurt his stats. "Flashes" by definition is a short bright spot, not continuous over a long period of time. That you are saying essentially that you never saw any moments of skill in his game makes me think you either were not watching or were hate watching.

I watch pretty much every second of the Warriors games. Flashes do not mean spots. Then every player is a possible goat since every player has flashes of pretty much any kind of skills. Wiseman's skill set is very limited, he is tall and athletic and these are not skills.
My only expectation about him is a trade sending him elsewhere, that is all.

[Scoots1994]

Wiseman is going to be fine offensively. He's got good touch around the rim, and he's huge and long. He'll be able to finish down low once he learns his role and someone creates for him. Really on offense it's just learning what to do and where to be. Set screens and let others create for him and he's going to be one of the better finishers in the league. My biggest complaint is how the coaching staff used him this year. They used him as if he's Joel Embiid and really just didn't put any restrictions on him until later in the season, which isn't the role he should be playing next year or really any year as long as Curry is Curry.

From what he said in interviews I think Draymond was pushing him beyond what he can do fairly quickly. Don't know that it was the coaches as much as Draymond.

[Scoots1994]

There is no flashes of any skill. He is not doing anything at a respectable rate. He is a horrendous player on both sides. He is tall, I will give you that. It will definitely hurt the team like this year if he plays.

He's inconsistent and often lost and those things hurt his stats. "Flashes" by definition is a short bright spot, not continuous over a long period of time. That you are saying essentially that you never saw any moments of skill in his game makes me think you either were not watching or were hate watching.

I watch pretty much every second of the Warriors games. Flashes do not mean spots. Then every player is a possible goat since every player has flashes of pretty much any kind of skills. Wiseman's skill set is very limited, he is tall and athletic and these are not skills.
My only expectation about him is a trade sending him elsewhere, that is all.

He can shoot, he can handle reasonably well for a 7 footer, and he was a better passer than I expected. His rebounding positioning and activity were weak, ALL of his defensive decisions were a beat late even when they were correct.

It's not like I think he's certain to be a star, I do think it's completely reasonable he could be the best Warriors center in the last 40 years.

[EvanZ]

He's inconsistent and often lost and those things hurt his stats. "Flashes" by definition is a short bright spot, not continuous over a long period of time. That you are saying essentially that you never saw any moments of skill in his game makes me think you either were not watching or were hate watching.

I watch pretty much every second of the Warriors games. Flashes do not mean spots. Then every player is a possible goat since every player has flashes of pretty much any kind of skills. Wiseman's skill set is very limited, he is tall and athletic and these are not skills.
My only expectation about him is a trade sending him elsewhere, that is all.

He can shoot, he can handle reasonably well for a 7 footer, and he was a better passer than I expected. His rebounding positioning and activity were weak, ALL of his defensive decisions were a beat late even when they were correct.

It's not like I think he's certain to be a star, I do think it's completely reasonable he could be the best Warriors center in the last 40 years.

What does "he can shoot" even mean? I mean, yes technically, he can provide a force to the ball so that it goes in the direction of the basket. I "can shoot" as well. In fact I venture to guess that most of us with arms "can shoot".

He made a few 3s at the beginning of the season so everyone got fooled into thinking he's some kind of magical shooting big man. He also shot just 63% on free throws. Not a great sign for a "shooter". He ended the season 32% beyond the arc. I'd say he has a lot of work left to prove "he can shoot" in any sense that it could actually help the team win. Otherwise, he's going to be in the dunker spot or on the bench next season.

In terms of passing, huh? I mean if you expected him to be worse than Biyombo or Kabengele passing, maybe. But he's pretty bad even in absolute terms. Almost 3 turnovers for every assist.

[ahmetmekin]

He's inconsistent and often lost and those things hurt his stats. "Flashes" by definition is a short bright spot, not continuous over a long period of time. That you are saying essentially that you never saw any moments of skill in his game makes me think you either were not watching or were hate watching.

I watch pretty much every second of the Warriors games. Flashes do not mean spots. Then every player is a possible goat since every player has flashes of pretty much any kind of skills. Wiseman's skill set is very limited, he is tall and athletic and these are not skills.
My only expectation about him is a trade sending him elsewhere, that is all.

He can shoot, he can handle reasonably well for a 7 footer, and he was a better passer than I expected. His rebounding positioning and activity were weak, ALL of his defensive decisions were a beat late even when they were correct.

It's not like I think he's certain to be a star, I do think it's completely reasonable he could be the best Warriors center in the last 40 years.

What is this? Wiseman has a tunnel vision equivalent to Jordan Clarkson's. He averaged 0.7 assists and 1.5 to and there are many more turnovers caused by him thanks to his great ball catching skills. His playmaking is beyond terrible. He gets only easy rebounds, he does not shoot well (31% 3pt, 63% ft is not good) or he does not handle the ball well. Both eye test and stats tell the same story about him.

[EvanZ]

I watch pretty much every second of the Warriors games. Flashes do not mean spots. Then every player is a possible goat since every player has flashes of pretty much any kind of skills. Wiseman's skill set is very limited, he is tall and athletic and these are not skills.
My only expectation about him is a trade sending him elsewhere, that is all.

He can shoot, he can handle reasonably well for a 7 footer, and he was a better passer than I expected. His rebounding positioning and activity were weak, ALL of his defensive decisions were a beat late even when they were correct.

It's not like I think he's certain to be a star, I do think it's completely reasonable he could be the best Warriors center in the last 40 years.

What is this?

It's Warriors fans being sold a bill of goods and buying it at face value.

[Onus]

Wiseman is going to be fine offensively. He's got good touch around the rim, and he's huge and long. He'll be able to finish down low once he learns his role and someone creates for him. Really on offense it's just learning what to do and where to be. Set screens and let others create for him and he's going to be one of the better finishers in the league. My biggest complaint is how the coaching staff used him this year. They used him as if he's Joel Embiid and really just didn't put any restrictions on him until later in the season, which isn't the role he should be playing next year or really any year as long as Curry is Curry.

From what he said in interviews I think Draymond was pushing him beyond what he can do fairly quickly. Don't know that it was the coaches as much as Draymond.

Fine we can blame draymond for putting Wiseman in a position he isn't ready for and being the worst player in the NBA. Whoever it was, you could see Wiseman losing confidence during the season rather than just giving him simple roles and goals so that he could feel like he's accomplishing something each game. Let alone a role that he's actually going to play on a Steph Curry led team.

[EvanZ]

Fine we can blame draymond for putting Wiseman in a position he isn't ready for and being the worst player in the NBA. Whoever it was, you could see Wiseman losing confidence during the season rather than just giving him simple roles and goals so that he could feel like he's accomplishing something each game. Let alone a role that he's actually going to play on a Steph Curry led team.

Losing confidence in your rookie season is a bad sign. It reminds me of Harrison Barnes. Take a player like Aleksej Pokusevski who by the stats was arguably even worse than Wiseman. But he plays like he's a 10-time All-Star out there with all the confidence in the world despite being the youngest player in the league (in fact he's younger than the top 3 picks in this Draft). It shouldn't be surprising to anyone (except apparently the Warriors FO) that Wiseman was bad in his rookie season, including Wiseman.

[Onus]

Fine we can blame draymond for putting Wiseman in a position he isn't ready for and being the worst player in the NBA. Whoever it was, you could see Wiseman losing confidence during the season rather than just giving him simple roles and goals so that he could feel like he's accomplishing something each game. Let alone a role that he's actually going to play on a Steph Curry led team.

Losing confidence in your rookie season is a bad sign. It reminds me of Harrison Barnes. Take a player like Aleksej Pokusevski who by the stats was arguably even worse than Wiseman. But he plays like he's a 10-time All-Star out there with all the confidence in the world despite being the youngest player in the league (in fact he's younger than the top 3 picks in this Draft). It shouldn't be surprising to anyone (except apparently the Warriors FO) that Wiseman was bad in his rookie season, including Wiseman.

I mean I just think Wiseman isn't ready for the Joel Embiid role, and he probably never should play that role. But when he was just asked to do big man things and finish he was fine.

I like Poku, he was my no 1 prospect last year but they didn't put him in the luka role right out of the gate. They kind of let him build up to becoming a creator and even then he has so much more experience than Wiseman that he'd be ready for that quicker than Wiseman. Poku still shot like **** mind you, but he flashed a lot that there's a ton of hope that he can be a star down the road.

For me Wiseman should be looking to be Rudy Gobert on defense and he'll be a better finisher than Gobert. If he can approximate anything like Rudy on defense then anything he does offensively will be gravy. He's got the height, length, and athleticism to do it, but he's starting at a much lower point and he's probably being pushed into an offensive role for whatever reason. I just don't know what the plan is for him, which is my frustration with the front office/coaching staff.

[EvanZ]

Wiseman isn't as athletic as people want to think. Yes, he can run and jump. But he's not exactly a quick leaper and his lateral quickness/footwork leaves something to be desired. There's just no point comparing him to Gobert right now.

[mos_def]

Fine we can blame draymond for putting Wiseman in a position he isn't ready for and being the worst player in the NBA. Whoever it was, you could see Wiseman losing confidence during the season rather than just giving him simple roles and goals so that he could feel like he's accomplishing something each game. Let alone a role that he's actually going to play on a Steph Curry led team.

Losing confidence in your rookie season is a bad sign. It reminds me of Harrison Barnes. Take a player like Aleksej Pokusevski who by the stats was arguably even worse than Wiseman. But he plays like he's a 10-time All-Star out there with all the confidence in the world despite being the youngest player in the league (in fact he's younger than the top 3 picks in this Draft). It shouldn't be surprising to anyone (except apparently the Warriors FO) that Wiseman was bad in his rookie season, including Wiseman.

The comparison psychologically to Barnes is total opposite though. If you want to compare Pokusevski to Wiseman than be aware AP went to a team that sucked and had no expectations. They also play different positions. If its just confidence then with Wiseman, you are taking a kid that played 3 games going to a team with recent fanfare, a multiple MVP and DPOY. There are greater expectations almost as if they were going to the Jordan Bulls.

[EvanZ]

Fine we can blame draymond for putting Wiseman in a position he isn't ready for and being the worst player in the NBA. Whoever it was, you could see Wiseman losing confidence during the season rather than just giving him simple roles and goals so that he could feel like he's accomplishing something each game. Let alone a role that he's actually going to play on a Steph Curry led team.

Losing confidence in your rookie season is a bad sign. It reminds me of Harrison Barnes. Take a player like Aleksej Pokusevski who by the stats was arguably even worse than Wiseman. But he plays like he's a 10-time All-Star out there with all the confidence in the world despite being the youngest player in the league (in fact he's younger than the top 3 picks in this Draft). It shouldn't be surprising to anyone (except apparently the Warriors FO) that Wiseman was bad in his rookie season, including Wiseman.

The comparison psychologically to Barnes is total opposite though. If you want to compare Pokusevski to Wiseman than be aware AP went to a team that sucked and had no expectations. They also play different positions. If its just confidence then with Wiseman, you are taking a kid that played 3 games going to a team with recent fanfare, a multiple MVP and DPOY. There are greater expectations almost as if they were going to the Jordan Bulls.

Wiseman played 3 games in his entire life?

Can we stop it with that? I mean LaMelo played 12 games last year. Kyrie played 9 games before getting injured his Freshman season. The fact that Wiseman played 3 games means nothing to me. Pokusevski is a year younger than Wiseman and played in what is basically a rec league in Europe. The fact that Wiseman who has been a #1 prospect basically since the cradle lacks confidence....

IS BAD

[mos_def]

Losing confidence in your rookie season is a bad sign. It reminds me of Harrison Barnes. Take a player like Aleksej Pokusevski who by the stats was arguably even worse than Wiseman. But he plays like he's a 10-time All-Star out there with all the confidence in the world despite being the youngest player in the league (in fact he's younger than the top 3 picks in this Draft). It shouldn't be surprising to anyone (except apparently the Warriors FO) that Wiseman was bad in his rookie season, including Wiseman.

The comparison psychologically to Barnes is total opposite though. If you want to compare Pokusevski to Wiseman than be aware AP went to a team that sucked and had no expectations. They also play different positions. If its just confidence then with Wiseman, you are taking a kid that played 3 games going to a team with recent fanfare, a multiple MVP and DPOY. There are greater expectations almost as if they were going to the Jordan Bulls.

Wiseman played 3 games in his entire life?

Can we stop it with that? I mean LaMelo played 12 games last year. Kyrie played 9 games before getting injured his Freshman season. The fact that Wiseman played 3 games means nothing to me. Pokusevski is a year younger than Wiseman and played in what is basically a rec league in Europe. The fact that Wiseman who has been a #1 prospect basically since the cradle lacks confidence....

IS BAD

LaMelo and Kyrie had free reign though. Kyrie didnt win in his rookie year. I think that is what you are missing. Going to a team with no expectations a player is looser or "more confidence." It sounds like you are down on Wiseman cuz he isnt Embiid or Jokic in his rookie year. He didnt have a real training camp cuz of Covid. You think Wiggins assimilated to the team defensive structure right away? It probably was better that Curry was out when we acquired Wiggins for development. Pokusevski is getting run on a bad team. He is pretty much Mike Dunleavy. So what?

[Onus]

Wiseman isn't as athletic as people want to think. Yes, he can run and jump. But he's not exactly a quick leaper and his lateral quickness/footwork leaves something to be desired. There's just no point comparing him to Gobert right now.

Really what make Gobert, Gobert, his height, length and his quickness/footwork. Wiseman has 2 out of those 3 just by his physical presence. Can he learn the footwork and iq, because if he can then there's no reason he can't approximate Gobert. I don't think he'll get to Gobert level, because Gobert is the best defensive big of our generation but if he can even do a little of what he can do that's all we need. In any case he should be focusing on adding strength and defensive footwork. With his height and length he needs to be a defensive presence, because if he's not going to be a defensive presence then there's no point of him being on the court.

[Sleepy51]

Wiseman is going to be fine offensively. He's got good touch around the rim, and he's huge and long. He'll be able to finish down low once he learns his role and someone creates for him. Really on offense it's just learning what to do and where to be. Set screens and let others create for him and he's going to be one of the better finishers in the league. My biggest complaint is how the coaching staff used him this year. They used him as if he's Joel Embiid and really just didn't put any restrictions on him until later in the season, which isn't the role he should be playing next year or really any year as long as Curry is Curry.

From what he said in interviews I think Draymond was pushing him beyond what he can do fairly quickly. Don't know that it was the coaches as much as Draymond.

Fine we can blame draymond for putting Wiseman in a position he isn't ready for and being the worst player in the NBA. Whoever it was, you could see Wiseman losing confidence during the season rather than just giving him simple roles and goals so that he could feel like he's accomplishing something each game. Let alone a role that he's actually going to play on a Steph Curry led team.

I don't get why you are so fixated on his confidence struggles when he was playing his best, and most confident basketball of the season at the time of his final injury. That was seeming to be an issue that he worked his way through. No matter how many times Andy Liu complained about his face, he kept getting better. Maybe having high expectations for himself and holding himself accountable was actually a good thing? Maybe he wasn't out there looking for a participation trophy and actually cares about getting better?

[whatisacenter]

this board is such a broken record right now. you can log in and read the same **** all day every day. hopefully the draft lottery will shake things a bit but I am skeptical.

[GSWFan1994]

this board is such a broken record right now. you can log in and read the same **** all day every day. hopefully the draft lottery will shake things a bit but I am skeptical.

You take my hand
I'll take your hand
Together we may get away
This much madness
Is too much sorrow
It's impossible
To make it today

[Onus]

From what he said in interviews I think Draymond was pushing him beyond what he can do fairly quickly. Don't know that it was the coaches as much as Draymond.

Fine we can blame draymond for putting Wiseman in a position he isn't ready for and being the worst player in the NBA. Whoever it was, you could see Wiseman losing confidence during the season rather than just giving him simple roles and goals so that he could feel like he's accomplishing something each game. Let alone a role that he's actually going to play on a Steph Curry led team.

I don't get why you are so fixated on his confidence struggles when he was playing his best, and most confident basketball of the season at the time of his final injury. That was seeming to be an issue that he worked his way through. No matter how many times Andy Liu complained about his face, he kept getting better. Maybe having high expectations for himself and holding himself accountable was actually a good thing? Maybe he wasn't out there looking for a participation trophy and actually cares about getting better?

I'm not fixated on his confidence issues, though confidence does play a huge role in sports. I'm fixated on giving him a role that he can actually play and can play along with Steph. That role is not Joel Embiid, who shoots the ball every single time he touches the ball no matter where he is. If Steph is on the floor should we really be running offense through Wiseman? When should any team ever run offense through a raw rookie big man? Lottery teams? Him getting better isn't running offense through him. There hasn't been a rookie big man that any team can run offense through in decades and I'm sorry Wiseman wasn't the one to break that trend let alone for a team that has Steph Curry on it.

My philosophy on development is to let them succeed at a role first and then they can build off of that. Let the player know this is what they're in the game for and to focus on that. Let him find his footing and then he can build off of that. The Warriors did the complete opposite of that. They rolled the ball out and said let's see what you do and he preceeded to just shoot every time. By the end of his healthy stint they were finally cutting things back and pulling in the reins on him and he was playing better. This all ties into my complaint about the season and how they chose to focus on developing wiseman rather than actually trying to win games and bringing wiseman along slowly. We essentially wasted the first half of the season playing a style of basketball that we'll never play moving forward until Curry is old.