James Wiseman 2021/2022

[EvanZ]

Siakam is a better fit for this team.


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[cdubbz]

This might not be the season to trade Wiseman/Kuminga etc. Maybe this off season is the move and we see who is available. Can't see a trade so far this season that puts us over the top for stars at least. Simmons is questionable in terms of fit character wise. Wiggins is better fit too.

Wiseman, Kuminga, Poole or whatever might be enticing for the next star.

I really want PG13. Willing to empty our puppy core for him. Don't think there is much I would swap, unless The Greek Freak wants to be here.

PG13 is a talent but man I don’t care for him much. I wouldn’t want to offer the whole ‘puppy core’ for him either. Cant have both wiseman and kuminga.

I guess there aren’t too many other elite wings who would be on the market.

[GSWFan1994]

Via the Wiretap: Wiseman cleared for full practice.

[Onus]

Practices are going to be lit for the young pups

[Twinkie defense]

Wiseman needs to focus on defense, grabbing the rebound and getting the outlet pass to Draymond. On offense he just needs to finish the lob and clean up the offensive boards. He should get limited minutes to prove he can do those few things well.

[NeoWarriors]

James Wiseman has been cleared to participate fully in practice with the Golden State Warriors.

Williams tore his meniscus on April 10th and underwent surgery.

The Warriors selected Wiseman with the second overall pick in the 2020 draft.

Somebody was lazy.

[floppymoose]

Is it just not smart to spend a top 3 pick on a 7 footer anymore? Who was the last player who was worth it? KD?

[Twinkie defense]

Is it just not smart to spend a top 3 pick on a 7 footer anymore? Who was the last player who was worth it? KD?

I think it's not smart to use high draft picks on bigs who can't guard the perimeter. If you can draft a seven-footer who can handle the ball, shoot from the outside, and switch out on defense, that's the gold standard - but I'd rather draft a 6' 7" guy who can guard multiple positions than a old-school seven-footer who is stranded down in the post.

For me, Shaq was the most dominant player in modern NBA history, but I think he would be a liability in today's NBA.

[ILOVEIT]

If Looney helps the Warriors....then let's just have Wiseman do what Looney does.
Set picks....roll. Defend, rebound. That's all. No dribbling the length of the court...no spotting up for 3 pointers.
Kerr...please...simplify the game for him and make him the best at just that.

[Sleepy51]

Is it just not smart to spend a top 3 pick on a 7 footer anymore? Who was the last player who was worth it? KD?

Embid in 2014 was certainly a successful pick vs. Wiggins or Parker who went before him. Nukic would have been justifiable above the rest of the top 10 in that draft. KAT appears to have been the right pick at the top of the draft in 2015.

16 and 17 were drafts with no compelling bigs to speak of so those are years that fit, but no one was considering a 7 footer in those drafts anyway.

2018 should have gone Luka, Trey, Porter Jr? Then Ayton right? So that's not all that far off.

There were no centers worth considering top 10 in 2019 again.

For 2020 to call Wiseman a mistake in the top 3 (yes, Lamelo should have gone first) he would have to have a less impactful career than Killian Hayes, Okongwu, Okoro, Patrick Williams and Obi Toppin. I think it's premature to call that ball.

7 foot people are so scarce that there's not even a single 7 foot person worthy of top 10 consideration in the majority of drafts. When one does come along it's probably not a terrible risk given that I can't actually find a true "mistake" 7-footer picked top 3 in recent drafts. I guess Wiseman could finally be the exception that proves the rule but I don't think that's going to happen.

I just think he's going to take 5 years and then be a REALLY good player, well worthy of top 3 in that draft.

[FNQ]

Is it just not smart to spend a top 3 pick on a 7 footer anymore? Who was the last player who was worth it? KD?

I might go further than top 3... and this is dependent on whether or not Mobley is a 7' or not.

But you should be drafting *skills* at the top of the draft, not body type. And I think a lot of 7' or close to it players were drafted because of their body type, and not necessarily skill. Chet Holmgren, likely #1 pick (that Paulo guy is intriguing but Holmgren seems better IMO), is extremely skilled, as was KD.

I dont think Wiseman fit that mold. He was big, rangy, and athletic.. but the skills werent there, and now we're tasked with trying to develop those skills. I'd easily take a Usman Garuba - a very skilled but undersized C - over a 'skills' project like Wiseman

[floppymoose]

Here is the thread to see who wanted Ball:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1971780

[Twinkie defense]

7 foot people are so scarce that there's not even a single 7 foot person worthy of top 10 consideration in the majority of drafts.

And yet they get drafted anyway, because "you can't teach height."

[GQ Hot Dog]

Is it just not smart to spend a top 3 pick on a 7 footer anymore? Who was the last player who was worth it? KD?

I might go further than top 3... and this is dependent on whether or not Mobley is a 7' or not.

But you should be drafting *skills* at the top of the draft, not body type. And I think a lot of 7' or close to it players were drafted because of their body type, and not necessarily skill. Chet Holmgren, likely #1 pick (that Paulo guy is intriguing but Holmgren seems better IMO), is extremely skilled, as was KD.

I dont think Wiseman fit that mold. He was big, rangy, and athletic.. but the skills werent there, and now we're tasked with trying to develop those skills. I'd easily take a Usman Garuba - a very skilled but undersized C - over a 'skills' project like Wiseman

This is why all the videos we saw of Wiseman in workouts prior to the draft were him developing guard skills. Ball handling and perimeter shooting mostly. Which is a great skillset for a 7fter to have but we still need him to do the things you always need from bigmen.

The chorus of "bust" has only gotten louder since he got hurt last season which makes no sense. Ayton is not a worse player because he was taken prior to Luka and Wiseman deserves to be judged on his development not LaMelo's. The Suns never would have made the Finals last season without Ayton and we might get back to the Finals one day because of Wiseman and if we do it will have nothing to do with him not being a primary ball handler like LaMelo.

It's trendy to sing the praises of multi-positional, multi-skilled players in today's NBA and they are without a doubt extremely important. But the greatest divergence between players is between a primary ball handler and a true bigman doing bigman things. I think the easiest route to the greatest success lies in having both so no matter how good LaMelo is, Wiseman can still be the best pick for us just as Ayton I think can be argued was the best pick for the Suns even with Luka's success.

[Twinkie defense]

you should be drafting *skills* at the top of the draft, not body type. And I think a lot of 7' or close to it players were drafted because of their body type, and not necessarily skill.

Yes!

[whatisacenter]

excited to see what young James does in his second season. It must feel great for him to get to be a full go at practice.

[FNQ]

This is why all the videos we saw of Wiseman in workouts prior to the draft were him developing guard skills. Ball handling and perimeter shooting mostly. Which is a great skillset for a 7fter to have but we still need him to do the things you always need from bigmen.

I disagree.. I'd say both are necessary for a player with his skillset. If he turns out to be a good defender, not a Gobert, but someone good.. was that a good use of a #2 overall pick? Is that all that different from what Looney and Nemo are providing us now? I mean they arent great, but if you can get 80% of what the hypothetically good defending Wiseman gives, for 1/2 of the MLE on 2 players, then that's terrible asset management. We need Wiseman to be 2 way, and he needs to be an impact player

Right now, I think its far more important to develop his offense and his comfort.. the worst thing you can be is lost on the basketball court, and he was definitely lost. He got better each time before the injuries fully derailed, but its all relative - he was still really bad. Thats why I'm big on sending him to the GLeague. Make him comfortable on the court, even against scrubs. I'm a fan of throwing rookies into the pool early so we can see where they are, then pulling them out and formulating a plan. With Wiseman, he's been thrown in. We know what we have currently, we know what he needs to work on. And since our C situation is fine right now, theres no urgency.

The big man stuff will come, but I disagree with 2 concepts that are pushed often here: 1, that its more important than his perimeter skills, and 2, that he should be on the NBA team immediately focusing on that. He can't focus on that in the GL, but also, he cant focus on the offense in the NBA. And it would be kinda damaging to his progress if we got his defense up to snuff in the NBA, then sent him to the GL to work on his offense. Unless we're going to also work on his offense in the NBA, but then we're going to be eating **** during those minutes.

[Twinkie defense]

It's trendy to sing the praises of multi-positional, multi-skilled players in today's NBA and they are without a doubt extremely important. But the greatest divergence between players is between a primary ball handler and a true bigman doing bigman things.

IDK, think what an advantage you have with a big like Draymond running the offense.

[FNQ]

Here is the thread to see who wanted Ball:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1971780

I dont think I'm in there and thank god I'm not, I probably wouldnt have given LaMelo a fair shake due to his family. I wanted Wiseman before the season and I probably did in the offseason too, because I wrote off Ball and I didnt see a good fit in Edwards (still wary of him and glad we didnt take him)

Also his shooting coming alive in the NBA was fairly surprising, I think if people bought the idea of him being a good shooter then he goes #1 overall, NQA

[FNQ]

If Looney helps the Warriors....then let's just have Wiseman do what Looney does.
Set picks....roll. Defend, rebound. That's all. No dribbling the length of the court...no spotting up for 3 pointers.
Kerr...please...simplify the game for him and make him the best at just that.

No, please god no, dont do this

If you train him to be Looney, then he'll be Looney.

One of my favorite quotes in business:

Person 1: “What happens if we invest in developing our people and then they leave us?”
Person 2: "What happens if we don’t, and they stay?”

We took this guy with the #2 overall pick. We did it because there's a template there that can be something special - he can handle, he can shoot, he can rebound, he can block shots. If you bring him to the NBA and tell him "just do this" then that's all that develops. And how does he develop the shooting, the handling, the decision making? Or are we setting ourselves up for more growing pains for a longer period of time?

This all seems fairly simple to me. Start him in the GLeague, where he can learn offense but cant learn defense. Then once he's gotten familiar with the speed of the game offensively, bring him to the NBA where he can not only learn defense, but *Warrior* defense. I really struggle to see why there are alternative plans to this, but then again I'm not sure what our development plans really are. Too often things are done by our team that just dont make any sense.