Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die

[Nvnervous45]

Dang. Grizzlies got a haul for Desmond bane. 4 unprotected 1st and players. If that's the trade market. F that!!

[EvanZ]

they’re taking back a couple bad deals in KCP and Cole so it’s not quite as bad as it looks.

[whatisacenter]

they’re taking back a couple bad deals in KCP and Cole so it’s not quite as bad as it looks.

It's bad...Cole is a 13M expiring and KCP is only 2 years at 21.6M per. They are both decent mid-range contracts to trade.

[HiRez]

KD's top 3 choices for teams he want to go to are Heat, Rockets, Spurs.

None of those current teams are as good as the Warriors and if they trade for KD, they'd have to send out a lot of salaries to match his big salary, weakening them further.

That just tells you the Warriors shouldn't have bothered trying to acquire him at the deadline, he was going to prefer many teams over returning to GSW.

It's been pretty obvious since he willingly left that he didn't want to be here. Plus shutting down a potential trade to the Warriors at the deadline, and then never mentioning the Warriors as a preferred destination whenever he was leaving another team. Why, we don't really know, maybe Draymond, maybe Kerr, maybe Lacob, maybe doesn't like the city/area...but he doesn't want to be a Warrior. And for me that's enough to drop the idea. Even if you could find a way to acquire him, I don't want a disinterested/disgruntled KD on the team, especially not one who's going to be 37 at the start of the season.

[defense_enjoyer]

And people here think somehow cam Johnson is a complete overpay for 2 FRPs. This is the trade market now. If you want shooters, you lose all your picks.

[vvoland]

And people here think somehow cam Johnson is a complete overpay for 2 FRPs. This is the trade market now. If you want shooters, you lose all your picks.

The type of picks matter. As was mentioned in the other thread, of those 4 picks, the only lottery pick looks to be next year's PHX. The rest are ORL picks that are sure to be in the 20s. That's not nothing but it's also not "4 UNPROTECTED FRPs"

Depending on the picks, 2 FRPs for Cam is a lot. Bane is better, by quiet a bit.

[wco81]

And people here think somehow cam Johnson is a complete overpay for 2 FRPs. This is the trade market now. If you want shooters, you lose all your picks.

The type of picks matter. As was mentioned in the other thread, of those 4 picks, the only lottery pick looks to be next year's PHX. The rest are ORL picks that are sure to be in the 20s. That's not nothing but it's also not "4 UNPROTECTED FRPs"

Depending on the picks, 2 FRPs for Cam is a lot. Bane is better, by quiet a bit.

I don't think you can make too much about how high the picks are. For instance, Bane was #30. Cam Johnson was #10. Brunson was a SRP SGA was like #11 or #12. So was Jalen Williams.

Hell Jokic was a SRP. Giannis was like #15 or #16. So was Kawhi. Haliburton was #12.

Especially now with the Second Apron, there's greater value to get productivity out of players on rookie contracts. Not nearly as much as the NFL but some.

So you only give up FRPs for very good starters, not role players.

[vvoland]

And people here think somehow cam Johnson is a complete overpay for 2 FRPs. This is the trade market now. If you want shooters, you lose all your picks.

The type of picks matter. As was mentioned in the other thread, of those 4 picks, the only lottery pick looks to be next year's PHX. The rest are ORL picks that are sure to be in the 20s. That's not nothing but it's also not "4 UNPROTECTED FRPs"

Depending on the picks, 2 FRPs for Cam is a lot. Bane is better, by quiet a bit.

I don't think you can make too much about how high the picks are. For instance, Bane was #30. Cam Johnson was #10. Brunson was a SRP SGA was like #11 or #12. So was Jalen Williams.

Hell Jokic was a SRP. Giannis was like #15 or #16. So was Kawhi. Haliburton was #12.

Especially now with the Second Apron, there's greater value to get productivity out of players on rookie contracts. Not nearly as much as the NFL but some.

So you only give up FRPs for very good starters, not role players.

I'm just talking about pick value, nothing else. I think an unprotected warriors pick in '32 would be worth *almost* as much as these 4 picks. Remember when PHX traded 1 of their unprotected future 1sts for 3 FRPs that were all slated to be in the 20s? That's all I meant. Yes, Memphis got 4 FRPs for Bane but I wouldn't trade our own '32 and a '31 pick swap for those 4. With the young talent Orlando has, I can see why they'd feel fine doing that. By the way, I would have traded our '32 and the '31 swap for Bane but I can see why Mem would want the 4 FPRs and the swap.

In fact, the players you mentioned are the main reason I wouldn't care about trading future picks. If my FO is good at identifying talent, I can get back into the draft and find my players at 10-20. If I can't identify talent, I'll pick wiseman over haliburton or jacob evans over jalen brunson, and set my team back.

[wco81]

Looks like OKC will win it all.

Many people have mentioned them being "handsy" on defense, while lamenting how Indy and other opponents just don't take care of the ball against the "physical" defense.

Yeah, the Thunder players get away with a lot of contact which most other teams get whistled for.

They're kind of like the Seattle Seahawks teams which committed pass interference on almost every play. They got whistled the most for PI but they reasoned that they can't call it on them every play and they got away with it on many key plays.

But the Thunder players aren't even always getting into foul trouble. Dort has a couple of times earlier in the playoffs but not in the Finals.

Warriors won 2 to 1 during the season. If you don't turn it over and they get easy points in transition, sometimes their defense is stagnant, though Jalen Williams has gotten off in the Finals after not showing much last season or earlier this season.

The TV ratings have been poor, with two of the smaller markets in the Finals.

If the ratings turn out to be disastrous and the networks pressure the league, maybe the NBA thinks twice about giving them favorable whistles for their supposed GOAT level defense.

[AirP.]

Read on Twitter

[cpower]

Read on Twitter

add 4 FPRs then its a deal

[cpower]

And people here think somehow cam Johnson is a complete overpay for 2 FRPs. This is the trade market now. If you want shooters, you lose all your picks.

The type of picks matter. As was mentioned in the other thread, of those 4 picks, the only lottery pick looks to be next year's PHX. The rest are ORL picks that are sure to be in the 20s. That's not nothing but it's also not "4 UNPROTECTED FRPs"

Depending on the picks, 2 FRPs for Cam is a lot. Bane is better, by quiet a bit.

Bane is not better by quite a bit.

Bane: EPM 2.3 BPM 3.2
CAM: EPM 2.4 BPM 3.1

2 FPR is a steal for CAM

[AirP.]

Read on Twitter

add 4 FPRs then its a deal

He's only under contract for 2 more years and then a player option, he can just opt out and leave for nothing. Smith Jr, Sheppard, Eason and Whitmore are all on rookie contracts that allows Phoenix to decide to keep them long term if they want with their future RFA status'.

Now if they want Green, I'm not sure how Green and Booker would work long term.

[vvoland]

And people here think somehow cam Johnson is a complete overpay for 2 FRPs. This is the trade market now. If you want shooters, you lose all your picks.

The type of picks matter. As was mentioned in the other thread, of those 4 picks, the only lottery pick looks to be next year's PHX. The rest are ORL picks that are sure to be in the 20s. That's not nothing but it's also not "4 UNPROTECTED FRPs"

Depending on the picks, 2 FRPs for Cam is a lot. Bane is better, by quiet a bit.

Bane is not better by quite a bit.

Bane: EPM 2.3 BPM 3.2
CAM: EPM 2.4 BPM 3.1

2 FPR is a steal for CAM

Bane has carried the offense on a team that put up a great record in the games Ja missed. Of the big 3 in MEM, he was, by far, the most consistent. Top 5 shooter, can create his own shot, can create for teammates. Better defender than Cam. He's clearly better, regardless of what EPM, BPM, RPM, or MPH tell you.

[Jester_]

The type of picks matter. As was mentioned in the other thread, of those 4 picks, the only lottery pick looks to be next year's PHX. The rest are ORL picks that are sure to be in the 20s. That's not nothing but it's also not "4 UNPROTECTED FRPs"

Depending on the picks, 2 FRPs for Cam is a lot. Bane is better, by quiet a bit.

Bane is not better by quite a bit.

Bane: EPM 2.3 BPM 3.2
CAM: EPM 2.4 BPM 3.1

2 FPR is a steal for CAM

Bane has carried the offense on a team that put up a great record in the games Ja missed. Of the big 3 in MEM, he was, by far, the most consistent. Top 5 shooter, can create his own shot, can create for teammates. Better defender than Cam. He's clearly better, regardless of what EPM, BPM, RPM, or MPH tell you.

If he's clearly better, why don't the advanced stats show it?

[Onus]

Bane is not better by quite a bit.

Bane: EPM 2.3 BPM 3.2
CAM: EPM 2.4 BPM 3.1

2 FPR is a steal for CAM

Bane has carried the offense on a team that put up a great record in the games Ja missed. Of the big 3 in MEM, he was, by far, the most consistent. Top 5 shooter, can create his own shot, can create for teammates. Better defender than Cam. He's clearly better, regardless of what EPM, BPM, RPM, or MPH tell you.

If he's clearly better, why don't the advanced stats show it?

Because he's not. Cam has gotten a lot better and was a top 50 player last year. TBH they're probably in the same tier as players.

[vvoland]

Bane has carried the offense on a team that put up a great record in the games Ja missed. Of the big 3 in MEM, he was, by far, the most consistent. Top 5 shooter, can create his own shot, can create for teammates. Better defender than Cam. He's clearly better, regardless of what EPM, BPM, RPM, or MPH tell you.

If he's clearly better, why don't the advanced stats show it?

Because he's not. Cam has gotten a lot better and was a top 50 player last year. TBH they're probably in the same tier as players.

Maybe. Or maybe because the advanced stats aren't the end-all, be-all.

What does Cam do better than Bane?

Bane is better shooting off movement, in C&S, creating for himself, creating for others, finishing around the rim, and initiating the offense. I can't think of anything Cam does better on the offensive end. In the shooting categories, it's somewhat close. In the other ones, the gap is pretty wide.

Defensively, Bane is better on ball, off ball, and on the glass. I understand this team needs shooting but the Cam love is weird, to me. I don't even think he's an improvement on Buddy, considering Cam is a worse rebounder. Saying he's in the same tier as Desmond Bane seems insane.

Top 50 last year, for Cam? Based on what? I'm not going to name 50 players but that seems like quite a stretch. He put up 19/4/3 in 32 minutes on 48/40/89 shooting splits. So a limited scorer that doesn't create, rebound, or defend. That's a top 50 player?

[Onus]

If he's clearly better, why don't the advanced stats show it?

Because he's not. Cam has gotten a lot better and was a top 50 player last year. TBH they're probably in the same tier as players.

Maybe. Or maybe because the advanced stats aren't the end-all, be-all.

What does Cam do better than Bane?

Bane is better shooting off movement, in C&S, creating for himself, creating for others, finishing around the rim, and initiating the offense. I can't think of anything Cam does better on the offensive end. In the shooting categories, it's somewhat close. In the other ones, the gap is pretty wide.

Defensively, Bane is better on ball, off ball, and on the glass. I understand this team needs shooting but the Cam love is weird, to me. I don't even think he's an improvement on Buddy, considering Cam is a worse rebounder. Saying he's in the same tier as Desmond Bane seems insane.

Top 50 last year, for Cam? Based on what? I'm not going to name 50 players but that seems like quite a stretch. He put up 19/4/3 in 32 minutes on 48/40/89 shooting splits. So a limited scorer that doesn't create, rebound, or defend. That's a top 50 player?

So you think bane who avg 19/6/5 on 48/39/89 is in a different tier? Who struggles on defense himself with his trex arms which means he struggles closing out. Can’t really switch directions so he gets cooked by Austin reaves in 1v1 situations.

They’re actually very similar players.

[vvoland]

Because he's not. Cam has gotten a lot better and was a top 50 player last year. TBH they're probably in the same tier as players.

Maybe. Or maybe because the advanced stats aren't the end-all, be-all.

What does Cam do better than Bane?

Bane is better shooting off movement, in C&S, creating for himself, creating for others, finishing around the rim, and initiating the offense. I can't think of anything Cam does better on the offensive end. In the shooting categories, it's somewhat close. In the other ones, the gap is pretty wide.

Defensively, Bane is better on ball, off ball, and on the glass. I understand this team needs shooting but the Cam love is weird, to me. I don't even think he's an improvement on Buddy, considering Cam is a worse rebounder. Saying he's in the same tier as Desmond Bane seems insane.

Top 50 last year, for Cam? Based on what? I'm not going to name 50 players but that seems like quite a stretch. He put up 19/4/3 in 32 minutes on 48/40/89 shooting splits. So a limited scorer that doesn't create, rebound, or defend. That's a top 50 player?

So you think bane who avg 19/6/5 on 48/39/89 is in a different tier? Who struggles on defense himself with his trex arms which means he struggles closing out. Can’t really switch directions so he gets cooked by Austin reaves in 1v1 situations.

They’re actually very similar players.

He almost doubles him up in rebounds and assists and, again, drove winning while cam drove the tank. They are similar shooters, though I think Bane is better. Bane isn't a very good defender, but he's better than Cam. He's also a much better rebounder, t-rex arms and all. In virtually every category, bane is either slightly or significantly better than cam. I don't really see where it's close outside of spot up shooting.

In the aggregate that adds up to a much better player. At least, to me. Is there anything cam does better than bane? Other than lose and miss games, of course.

[Onus]

Maybe. Or maybe because the advanced stats aren't the end-all, be-all.

What does Cam do better than Bane?

Bane is better shooting off movement, in C&S, creating for himself, creating for others, finishing around the rim, and initiating the offense. I can't think of anything Cam does better on the offensive end. In the shooting categories, it's somewhat close. In the other ones, the gap is pretty wide.

Defensively, Bane is better on ball, off ball, and on the glass. I understand this team needs shooting but the Cam love is weird, to me. I don't even think he's an improvement on Buddy, considering Cam is a worse rebounder. Saying he's in the same tier as Desmond Bane seems insane.

Top 50 last year, for Cam? Based on what? I'm not going to name 50 players but that seems like quite a stretch. He put up 19/4/3 in 32 minutes on 48/40/89 shooting splits. So a limited scorer that doesn't create, rebound, or defend. That's a top 50 player?

So you think bane who avg 19/6/5 on 48/39/89 is in a different tier? Who struggles on defense himself with his trex arms which means he struggles closing out. Can’t really switch directions so he gets cooked by Austin reaves in 1v1 situations.

They’re actually very similar players.

He almost doubles him up in rebounds and assists and, again, drove winning while cam drove the tank. They are similar shooters, though I think Bane is better. Bane isn't a very good defender, but he's better than Cam. He's also a much better rebounder, t-rex arms and all. In virtually every category, bane is either slightly or significantly better than cam. I don't really see where it's close outside of spot up shooting.

In the aggregate that adds up to a much better player. At least, to me. Is there anything cam does better than bane? Other than lose and miss games, of course.

1 more rebound and 1 more assist is doubling up?

Cam was driving winning so much that the front office had to step in and bench him and trade Schroeder so they would stop winning.

Cam is actually a better shooter, more efficient as well because he takes more 3s at a position where it helps drag out a big. His shooting is much more impactful to winning than Bane's, based on volume and position.