Is the team better without Lee?

[Onus]

according to nbawowy, Lee's biggest effect is on Carl landry, who gets thrust into a bigger role, which shouldn't happen as he should be a bench player. Everyone else seems to be pretty similar TS, PPP, PPS. I guess you could add Klay to that as well. I'm guessing that's because the other player outside of Bogut setting picks isn't setting as good of picks, or they're just switching it, so klay is getting less shots.

Just because Lee excels at that end of the floor doesn't mean we don't have the players to pick up his slack. Everyone in our starting 5 are capable scorers and our offense is predicated on our perimeter shooting. With more space using a smaller lineup, it's allowing more penetration as of late. Our offense has been far and away the best in the playoffs. We avg 107 pts against the Nuggets in the playoffs and in our 4 regular season games against the nuggets we never reached 107 once, though admittedly we reached 106, 105, 101, and 91. So there goes that theory of our offense being better with Lee, as that was not the case against the nuggets, where we scored 95, 131, 110, 115, 100, 92. I mean technically the 2 games lee played in the playoffs, we had our two lowest outputs! haha

and really 28 minutes for a player making 15 mil the next 3 years is something you should look to get rid of ASAP

[HiRez]

I like Lee a lot on the pick and roll, or cutting to the basket. I hate all the David Lee iso plays where he just dribbles and does the turnaround jumper because it kills ball movement. Well, I hate iso plays in general (hello, Jarrett Jack, Monta Ellis, Corey Maggette) unless you have like LeBron or Durant.

[Onus]

I should add the caveat that it all hinges on Bogut being healthy.

[GSForever]

Lee gets in the way of Bogut getting touches and rebounds. I would like a cheap defensive PF maybe someone like Udoh. Imagine if we still had our amnesty with RJ and AB coming off

[and1GS]

I should add the caveat that it all hinges on Bogut being healthy.

That and the definition of what 'without Lee' means. If it's like now where we lost Lee and replaced him with nothing new, then no we are not a better team. If we replaced him with something that worked better with our lineup, like a defensive 4 with an elbow jumper or a star 3 with a focus on defense, then yes we'd be much better without him.

[AussieBuck]

Short answer, yes.

[cladden]

First of all, Horford and Aldridge are younger and better than Lee. Since their teams aren't contenders right now, I don't see them having any interest in those trades.

Second, i think the big take away is maybe the warriors don't need to pay lee 37 minutes per game. They can go small next year more often, spread the floor when Barnes and Curry are going.

And finally, i also enjoy the team without him. I like watching players that are athletic, play good defense. For that reason, i've never been a huge fan of Lee. BUT his ugly scoring in the paint this year has kept the warriors in a lot of games. And that's huge.

How can efficient ambidextrous flip shoots, hooks and layups be ugly to you? He's a great offensive player. Just not enough of a defensive one to quite warrant his contract. Do you find Landry's offense ugly as well?

[Onus]

I should add the caveat that it all hinges on Bogut being healthy.

That and the definition of what 'without Lee' means. If it's like now where we lost Lee and replaced him with nothing new, then no we are not a better team. If we replaced him with something that worked better with our lineup, like a defensive 4 with an elbow jumper or a star 3 with a focus on defense, then yes we'd be much better without him.

it's impossible to lose lee without replacing him with something, as we can't amnesty him and he's under contract for the next 3 years.

[turk3d]

I think for Lee to reach his max potential he needs to develop a 3 pt shot. That would help him a lot with regards to playing against more physical 4s which give him so much trouble. The only real difference between he and Love is that Love can shoot the 3. He needs that weapon which would strengthen his inside game.

Seems to me he was supposedly working on that during one offseason but never really decided to implement it for whatever reason. I wouldn't say we need to make it a priority to get rid of him, but with the way we played the first round he's definitely expendable, mainly due to his contract.

[FNQ]

Of course not. A winning series versus a smallball team doesnt really mean anything. Lee will be needed vs the Spurs, especially if Splitter returns. Dealing with Duncan + Splitter or Blair isnt something that Bogut + Barnes/Landry can handle.

[Onus]

are you trying to tell me his impact is on the defensive end

[FNQ]

Rebounding and offense are still parts of the game
Barnes and Landry vs Splitter and Blair (assuming Bogut guards Duncan)

People want to move forward with that? Ugh. Its not the first time I'm just completely baffled by public opinion here though.

[Onus]

so you didn't think our offense was better without Lee even though the evidence says we played better without him on offense?

Regarding rebounding, we held off the no. 1 offensive rebounding team, I don't think Lee is an impact rebounder. Bogut was cleaning up the defensive rebounds.

i'm not advocating going forward with just this though.

[FNQ]

What evidence? A series versus a team that also doesnt have a power forward?

We held off that team on rebounding while their top rebounder was visibly slowed, and while they had to match our C-less lineups and play smallball with us. Its far from substantial evidence, even if they were fully healthy all 6 games. But considering the circumstances, its not even a solid basis for a hypothesis IMO. Talk about it after the Spurs series, and we'll see if he doesnt affect or rebounding, defense and offense.

[cladden]

What evidence? A series versus a team that also doesnt have a power forward?

We held off that team on rebounding while their top rebounder was visibly slowed, and while they had to match our C-less lineups and play smallball with us. Its far from substantial evidence, even if they were fully healthy all 6 games. But considering the circumstances, its not even a solid basis for a hypothesis IMO. Talk about it after the Spurs series, and we'll see if he doesnt affect or rebounding, defense and offense.

+1. WTF kinda evidence are we talking here?

Not sure if 82games.com cuts if for the hardcore stats people but it at least has him at a +2.3 points per 100 possessions and -3.7 without (6 more points scored per 100 possessions when he's on) which is a much bigger difference than say Curry who checks in at a +2.4.

The way people turned on Lee the last two months is baffling to me. He's flawed for sure but he's the best 4 we've had in ages and very very capable. Overpaid, yes but what else were we going to do with that money.

[GSForever]

DLee could prove his worth by giving a hard foul or fighting the opponents not to get post position so easily. Those qualities are pretty reachable. Make use of those 6 fouls that u have

[Onus]

we shall see.

I think regardless our offense will be better. We may miss him in the rebounding department however and if that's the only thing we'll be missing without him, then we can be better without him taking up 15 mil dollars.

The nugs didn't employ as much small ball in the final 2 games, yet we still held our own in those games in the rebounding department. Even winning the battle in the final game.

But it's true nothing definite has been proven one way or the other.

[statsman]

Make use of those 6 fouls that u have

Can't obtain his double-double average if he's in constant foul trouble. I'm sure it's part of his thought process.

As to the OP's question: better? Depends on what the Warriors would do with the freed up $14-15.5M per year the next three seasons.

[GSForever]

Its very exciting ton see Bogut board and score where Lee is usually at. Should have saved our amnesty

[cladden]

Its very exciting ton see Bogut board and score where Lee is usually at. Should have saved our amnesty

Ridiculous. I don't think Bogut scores at all where Lee does and really. You'd amnesty Lee? He's a huge part of why we're in the playoffs.

Also, people talk about playing defense as if it's something that Lee just considers himself too cool to do and that if they could be 6-9 they'd forsure do a better job than him at it. These are the couple of hundred best competitors in a highly competitive market at play. It's not like he just doesn't give a **** and decides not to be a good defender.