Wiseman will make us worse

[whatisacenter]

well, time will tell but I think it's silly to look at him coming back as the same player he was last season. New coaching staff, new approach and a far better supporting cast.

[marthafokker]

well, time will tell but I think it's silly to look at him coming back as the same player he was last season. New coaching staff, new approach and a far better supporting cast.

It always end up with LeMelo betoching.

[a8bil]

Anyone had stats of him coming off bench just before he got injured?

That is the Wiseman Kerr will be putting him at. All that negative +/- is mostly from the beginning of season.

Without that info, it is just hate on a rookie without context.

He was still better than the mess Sabonis as a rookie. And Sabonis had couple of years in College and training camp as rookie.

I think the negative on Wiseman was across a lot of the year, and I don't think he was coming off the bench before his injury...I think it was a bit earlier, during the stage when Steph was nursing the tailbone injury (i could be wrong). But, bear in mind that early on Oubre was getting a lot of run and he was terrible both on offense and defense...and Poole was pretty dreadful too. So it is not surprising that the net rating was bad during that time frame. When he came back from the wrist injury, he played some games without steph where there were some big negative numbers (for everyone). For the last few games with Steph, he was pretty neutral (no big negative or positive games for +/-). It tells me he can be a valuable contributor, but I still don't think he shows up in a "death squad" lineup any time soon.

[Twinkie defense]

Wiseman is just not that good right now so of course if he plays a lot, taking the minutes of better players, then the Warriors will be worse off.

I think Wiseman has shown enough to get some minutes though - if he takes advantage of those minutes he can earn more, and if he's bad then he can sit and learn, play later.

BTW some folks may have seen the article today or yesterday in I think it was ESPN+. Someone asked - specifically relating to the Warriors - which players are better, high draft picks for bad teams that get thrown into the fire? Or high draft picks on good teams who don't play much their first couple years and have to earn every minute. According to the stat geeks, the guys who get thrown right in the fire will do better right away, but the guys who have to earn their minutes are better over the long haul.

Wiseman, Kuminga and Moody are in this for the long haul, and will have to earn all of the minutes they get this season.

[marthafokker]

Curry got nailed to Nelson's bench. He did okay.

[Twinkie defense]

Curry got nailed to Nelson's bench. He did okay.

36.2 minutes per game!

[ILOVEIT]

Let's make a distinction. No one, IMO, is really doubting Wiseman as a longer term prospect. I think it's about the fit on the Warriors of a young center prone to mistakes on a team that has history proven they play better in small ball lineups.

I think Wiseman will be a very good to great center at some point....I just don't want Warriors featuring him until he impacts the game without forcing the Warriors to adjust to get him some run.

[sonnyhill]

This thread should also include Thompson and be changed to "Thompson and Wiseman will make us worse;" due to the challenges of integrating two players returning from injuries onto a roster which is currently playing at a high level. Realistically, this may, indeed, be the case (where the team regresses), immediately upon their return, and until they are both fully integrated into the rotations AND are fully recovered-and-healthy.

However, after a period of adjustment(s), having a healthy Thompson and Wiseman will be crucial during a playoff run. If Wiseman can only do what Looney is currently doing, but with more "hops" as a finisher on the offensive end of the floor, then it is a positive. If Thompson can provide another perimeter player on the offense, then that opens up the floor for Wiggins to have a better path to the basket and draws defenders off of Curry.

[Samurai]

This thread should also include Thompson and be changed to "Thompson and Wiseman will make us worse;" due to the challenges of integrating two players returning from injuries onto a roster which is currently playing at a high level. Realistically, this may, indeed, be the case (where the team regresses), immediately upon their return, and until they are both fully integrated into the rotations AND are fully recovered-and-healthy.

However, after a period of adjustment(s), having a healthy Thompson and Wiseman will be crucial during a playoff run. If Wiseman can only do what Looney is currently doing, but with more "hops" as a finisher on the offensive end of the floor, then it is a positive. If Thompson can provide another perimeter player on the offense, then that opens up the floor for Wiggins to have a better path to the basket and draws defenders off of Curry.

That's a fair point. We have to keep in mind that there are some key players who have never played with Klay (JTA, Porter, Bjelly, the rookies, Wiggins, GPII, etc.) so there will be a definite adjustment period. Just because Curry, Dray, Andre and Loon have experience playing with him doesn't mean the rest of the lineup has.

[WarriorGM]

Treat Wiseman like you'd treat Kuminga or Moody.

Klay is different, but should be handled carefully. Otto would be the appropriate comparison although one would expect if Klay looks great he'll be starting more than Otto currently is eventually.

[Scoots1994]

With how the league has evolved, I think there are only a few teams around the league where JW will have true value. Those are the teams who have big Cs who can bully us in the paint (Ayton, Embiid, Capela...). It's too much to ask Bjeli and Dray to bang with those guys 48 minutes a game all season. Let JW bang with them for 15-20, and then let rotations with Bjeli and Dray at center run them off the floor. I agree with cPower on this.

The skilled big fell off for a while but they are coming back. There's a pretty long list of guys who need size to defend them.

Jokic
Embiid
Ayton
Capela
KAT
Vuc
Nurk
Gobert
Valanciunus
Wood
Allen
Turner
Mobley
Sengun

Of course running them off the court is an option too, but teams still need size to win.

[Crazy-Canuck]

With how the league has evolved, I think there are only a few teams around the league where JW will have true value. Those are the teams who have big Cs who can bully us in the paint (Ayton, Embiid, Capela...). It's too much to ask Bjeli and Dray to bang with those guys 48 minutes a game all season. Let JW bang with them for 15-20, and then let rotations with Bjeli and Dray at center run them off the floor. I agree with cPower on this.

The skilled big fell off for a while but they are coming back. There's a pretty long list of guys who need size to defend them.

Jokic
Embiid
Ayton
Capela
KAT
Vuc
Nurk
Gobert
Valanciunus
Wood
Allen
Turner
Mobley
Sengun

Of course running them off the court is an option too, but teams still need size to win.

So basically, teams that feature a defensive turnstyle at C dont make the playoffs.

[a8bil]

With how the league has evolved, I think there are only a few teams around the league where JW will have true value. Those are the teams who have big Cs who can bully us in the paint (Ayton, Embiid, Capela...). It's too much to ask Bjeli and Dray to bang with those guys 48 minutes a game all season. Let JW bang with them for 15-20, and then let rotations with Bjeli and Dray at center run them off the floor. I agree with cPower on this.

The skilled big fell off for a while but they are coming back. There's a pretty long list of guys who need size to defend them.

Jokic
Embiid
Ayton
Capela
KAT
Vuc
Nurk
Gobert
Valanciunus
Wood
Allen
Turner
Mobley
Sengun

Of course running them off the court is an option too, but teams still need size to win.

IMO, GSW does not need Wiseman to guard some of these guys. There are lightweights (Mobley, Wood), guys who don't shoot a high percentage of their shots at the hoop (Turner, Vuc, KAT), and guys who just aren't enough of an offensive weapon to worry about. Bjeli, Dray and Looney do just fine against these guys in the sense that they can get a hand in their face and won't get beaten down trying to defend them. It's the big boys, the 250 lb guys, who are an offensive weapon and do their damage in the paint (or can adjust and do damage in the paint (Embiid/Jokic)) where Wiseman will be valuable. Maybe 8 or 9 guys in my view.

[wco81]

Even if JW improves a lot on defense, at most he would have limited minutes in the playoffs like Bogut. Or even in many regular season games, when the Warriors ran the death squad to put away games in crunch time.

They just need him to eat up some innings, to give Looney and Draymond some rest.

Best case scenario, he plays maybe 10-15 minutes a game in playoffs games and is a huge lob and dunk threat like McGee was in the Finals vs. Cleveland in their 3rd title. That means playing with a much higher motor, going after rebounds, challenging shots and diving hard to get some easy dunks so that the defense has to contract a bit, not live out at the 3 point line like the Cavs tried to do.


Again though, is JW willing to accept a limited role to help the team win or does he want to try to stat pad and build up tape of himself playing not like a center but a SF wannabe who tries to put it on the deck too much?

[GunnerWRX]

Not many on board of the the Wiseman agenda it seems.

[ILOVEIT]

This thread should also include Thompson and be changed to "Thompson and Wiseman will make us worse;" due to the challenges of integrating two players returning from injuries onto a roster which is currently playing at a high level. Realistically, this may, indeed, be the case (where the team regresses), immediately upon their return, and until they are both fully integrated into the rotations AND are fully recovered-and-healthy.

However, after a period of adjustment(s), having a healthy Thompson and Wiseman will be crucial during a playoff run. If Wiseman can only do what Looney is currently doing, but with more "hops" as a finisher on the offensive end of the floor, then it is a positive. If Thompson can provide another perimeter player on the offense, then that opens up the floor for Wiggins to have a better path to the basket and draws defenders off of Curry.

That's a fair point. We have to keep in mind that there are some key players who have never played with Klay (JTA, Porter, Bjelly, the rookies, Wiggins, GPII, etc.) so there will be a definite adjustment period. Just because Curry, Dray, Andre and Loon have experience playing with him doesn't mean the rest of the lineup has.

Huh....including Thompson who IS the Warriors and has fit in for the previous 8 years = Wiseman in terms of adjusting in the Warriors scheme. Nah...not really.

Thompson, other than being winded and getting legs back, fits PERFECTLY in the line up...He doesn't need the ball...switches defensively and will not make the same mistakes.

No...a rookie 7' kid having played half a season of NBA is dramatically different.

[ILOVEIT]

What I don't get is Warrior fans forgetting seeing Wiseman roasted defensively over and over again by guards. He was bad at defending the 3 point line....He is a target to get used by guys like LeBron etc....

Warriors being able to switch 1-5 defensively >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Than Wiseman dunking now and then and blocking 2 shots a game. And if you doubt any of that....just wait until he suits up...and the first thing you'll see is the opposing guards hunting him out...trying to get a switch so they an abuse him.

[hamncheese]

How do fans remembering or forgetting matter here? I am hopeful the Warriors make Wiseman earn his time with good play and lose time with poor play. If he is getting continually roasted when he gets back, his minutes are reduced until it is not problem. What we don't know is his how well he can adjust until he is on the court.

[Scoots1994]

I really don't understand people assuming Wiseman will be the same player he was at the start of last year.

I expect he'll be much better, I don't think he'll be Embiid (but I don't KNOW he won't be)

[xdrta+]

Maybe this has been posted, I didn't see it.

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