With Klay Thompson Returning...

[michaelm]

Nobody is advocating the team needing "a shake up."

Jordan Poole, a player who will have less value to the Warriors once Thompson returns, and Wiseman, a player who plays a position which is marginalized-and-diminished in a Kerr-coached Warrior team, could possibly be packaged to pick up a distressed asset with huge-superstar upside, Zion Williamson, from a team which may not be able to sign him to an extension and may be desperate to get assets onto its roster before Zion decides to move on to another team.

When healthy (and that is a big question mark and may dismiss even considering this type of trade), Zion Williamson is a young superstar player still on his rookie contract.

I would like to keep Wiseman; yet, nobody knows if Wiseman is nothing more than a left-handed version of Patrick O'Bryant (the original "Chef" on the Warriors), the worst case scenario, or if he can become a poor man's version of Deandre Ayton or David Robinson, a more hopeful scenario. Also, Poole may want to be the lead player on a team, and that is not going to happen with Curry and Thompson as the team's future Hall of Fame backcourt duo.

No chance the Pelicans do this.

[giberish]

Jordan Poole would be perfect off the bench, the Dub's version of Lou Will or Jordan Clarkson. Plus he is inexpensive.

But only for 1.5 more years

I have a tough time fencesitting usually but this is a real tough one. Trade, let him walk, or pay him? There’s sense in all 3 options. Hopefully he makes it clear which option is best this year

In 1.5 years Wiggins contract will also be up, giving GS more flexibility (assuming he can be resigned for less then his current deal).

GS will continue to need Poole's offense creation even with Klay back - especially if they want to have enough offense-creation to hold up in a deep playoff series. Sure with a ridiculous fantasy trade you can move him but not for anything realistic.

Poole's also the worst defender in the rotation - which works best as a 6th man bench gunning guard.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Unless there is a fountain of youth in the locker room, Curry will also continue to get older. It would make sense that to preserve his value, his minutes will need to be reduced and/or need more games off as he ages. Which means that Poole's minutes, and corresponding value to the team, will go up. He can't do that for us if he isn't on the roster. It would make Myers look incredibly foolish if he had to say "OMG, Curry got older. We didn't plan for that because we had absolutely no idea that would happen."

Is Poppovitch the authority on preserving aging players? Does anybody know anything? While study studing medical knowledge I was surprised and a bit horrified that even on basic medical questions like how does diabetes work or how do we feel pain when you dig 3 levels down on on almost any medical topic you hit the unknown. Even more disturbing is that at 2 levels down you sometimes encounter competing medical religions that pretend to be science but are really closer to being superstition.

How many minutes should Curry play now if we want Curry to be a useful part of a supporing cast to a championship team when Curry is 40 years old? I don't think there is a known answer to that question? We can look at players who were good at age 40 and see how many miutes per game they played in their 30s.

[The-Power]

Jordan Poole, a player who will have less value to the Warriors once Thompson returns

You just keep saying that without actually explaining why that is. I already tried to explain why I don't believe he'll have any less value for us and others made similar points, while you continue to not address the very foundation of your proposal.

I get it, you want Zion. But in that case, it's probably better to just make clear that you're looking for a way to get him specifically instead of starting from the premise that Poole (and Wiseman) are somehow less relevant pieces once Klay returns and should be moved.

[sonnyhill]

Jordan Poole, a player who will have less value to the Warriors once Thompson returns

You just keep saying that without actually explaining why that is. I already tried to explain why I don't believe he'll have any less value for us and others made similar points, while you continue to not address the very foundation of your proposal.

I get it, you want Zion. But in that case, it's probably better to just make clear that you're looking for a way to get him specifically instead of starting from the premise that Poole (and Wiseman) are somehow less relevant pieces once Klay returns and should be moved.

Poole's value on the Warriors' roster will diminish with the return of Thompson because there will be less minutes of playing time for Poole. And, Poole's value on the Warriors' roster will diminish when the team gets into the playoffs because of the premium placed on defense.

And, no, I do not want Zion. I would prefer to go into the playoffs with the team's current roster. In previous threads (over the summer and during the off-season), I had advocated for both Poole to become this season's starting guard to play alongside Curry and keeping GP II as a backup point guard. Yet, this season's "team ecosystem" is evolving-changing, and the team should take advantage of all opportunities to improve the franchise, including improving its roster.

Strong franchises have historically fleeced weak franchises by packaging up "pretty good players" in return for superstars/potential superstars (Lakers-Bucks trade where Abdul-Jabbar went to the Lakers; Lakers-Pelicans trade where AD went to the Lakers; Celtics-Timberwolves trade where Kevin Garnett went to the Celtics; 76ers-Warriors trade where Wilt Chamberlain went to the 76ers (the
Warriors received Paul Neumann, Connie Dierking, Lee Shaffer, and $150,000 in cash); Lakers-76ers trade where Chamberlain went to the Lakers; Bucks-Kings trade where Oscar Robertson went to the Bucks; 76ers-Rockets trade where Moses Malone went to the 76ers). Board brothers and sisters, the Warriors are a strong franchise, in first place in its division, currently potentially have three future Hall of Famers (Curry, Thompson, and possibly Green) on its roster), and can (and should) fleece weaker franchises for potential superstar talent.

Zion has proven, when healthy, that he has transcendent, once-in-a-generation talent and is a "Mega-Superstar." It might only be the Warriors franchise, with its "light years ahead of the rest of the league" franchise philosophy, where Zion can get himself back onto the superstar trajectory. While this type-of trade is a big risk for the Warriors to take; Joe Lacob is not an owner who will avoid acquiring tectonic-shifting talent if it would give the franchise a competitive advantage.

[Outside]

No to Zion. A hundred times no.

Zion is a huge risk for whichever team has him. His massive bulk and explosive athleticism mean the forces generated on his legs and feet are also massive. He has been breaking down with injuries since he was at Duke, and he has not shown the discipline to control his weight, which is critically important to keep him on the court. Even if he were disciplined about his weight, he'd still be a huge risk to break down.

LeBron is the once-in-a-generation outlier of a massive player with athleticism who doesn't have these types of injuries. Zion ain't that guy. His trading card should have a picture of him in a suit, because he wears that to games more than a uniform.

[sonnyhill]

No to Zion. A hundred times no.

Zion is a huge risk for whichever team has him. His massive bulk and explosive athleticism mean the forces generated on his legs and feet are also massive. He has been breaking down with injuries since he was at Duke, and he has not shown the discipline to control his weight, which is critically important to keep him on the court. Even if he were disciplined about his weight, he'd still be a huge risk to break down.

LeBron is the once-in-a-generation outlier of a massive player with athleticism who doesn't have these types of injuries. Zion ain't that guy. His trading card should have a picture of him in a suit, because he wears that to games more than a uniform.

It was not too long ago that a certain NBA franchise in the Western Conference's Pacific Division had drafted a hybrid point guard who had to shut his game down because of serious ankle issues. That player went on to become the NBA's all-time leader in made three-point baskets.

Curry was a huge risk for the Warriors to have signed to an extension, and it worked out well for both the Warrior franchise and Curry, himself.

The Warriors may be able to capture "lightening in the bottle" one more time with another often-injured player with immense upside. We Warrior fans know that this franchise has created an iconic brand which extends beyond just what goes on both on-and-off the court; the Warriors have created an ecosystem which allows for aspirational players to plug into the "Warrior Way (medical, rehab, diet/nutrition, training, skills development, etc.)" A great example is Andrew Wiggins. The kid has blossomed in this Warrior Way.

The Warriors had previously traded for an often-injured and overweight Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis, resulting in the We Believe team.

Along with big risk is the opportunity to capture a huge reward.

[Outside]

No to Zion. A hundred times no.

Zion is a huge risk for whichever team has him. His massive bulk and explosive athleticism mean the forces generated on his legs and feet are also massive. He has been breaking down with injuries since he was at Duke, and he has not shown the discipline to control his weight, which is critically important to keep him on the court. Even if he were disciplined about his weight, he'd still be a huge risk to break down.

LeBron is the once-in-a-generation outlier of a massive player with athleticism who doesn't have these types of injuries. Zion ain't that guy. His trading card should have a picture of him in a suit, because he wears that to games more than a uniform.

It was not too long ago that a certain NBA franchise in the Western Conference's Pacific Division had drafted a hybrid point guard who had to shut his game down because of serious ankle issues. That player went on to become the NBA's all-time leader in made three-point baskets.

Curry was a huge risk for the Warriors to have signed to an extension, and it worked out well for both the Warrior franchise and Curry, himself.

The Warriors may be able to capture "lightening in the bottle" one more time with another often-injured player with immense upside. We Warrior fans know that this franchise has created an iconic brand which extends beyond just what goes on both on-and-off the court; the Warriors have created an ecosystem which allows for aspirational players to plug into the "Warrior Way (medical, rehab, diet/nutrition, training, skills development, etc.)" A great example is Andrew Wiggins. The kid has blossomed in this Warrior Way.

The Warriors had previously traded for an often-injured and overweight Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis, resulting in the We Believe team.

Along with big risk is the opportunity to capture a huge reward.

I don't see the risks as remotely the same, though it's fine if you do. There was nothing in Curry's body type or play style that carried increased risk of injury, while with Zion, the risk is inherent in his body type and playing style. Plus as far as discipline and dedication goes, Steph and Zion are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Not all risks are the same.

EDIT: I'll also add that the Warriors in 2012 were in a position where they could afford to roll the dice on Curry's ankles. They had just gone 23-43 and were nowhere on anyone's playoff radar. If Curry's ankles didn't hold up, so what? But now, you're talking about risking championship contention and the last years of Curry's prime on Zion. Also not remotely the same thing.

[sonnyhill]

No to Zion. A hundred times no.

Zion is a huge risk for whichever team has him. His massive bulk and explosive athleticism mean the forces generated on his legs and feet are also massive. He has been breaking down with injuries since he was at Duke, and he has not shown the discipline to control his weight, which is critically important to keep him on the court. Even if he were disciplined about his weight, he'd still be a huge risk to break down.

LeBron is the once-in-a-generation outlier of a massive player with athleticism who doesn't have these types of injuries. Zion ain't that guy. His trading card should have a picture of him in a suit, because he wears that to games more than a uniform.

It was not too long ago that a certain NBA franchise in the Western Conference's Pacific Division had drafted a hybrid point guard who had to shut his game down because of serious ankle issues. That player went on to become the NBA's all-time leader in made three-point baskets.

Curry was a huge risk for the Warriors to have signed to an extension, and it worked out well for both the Warrior franchise and Curry, himself.

The Warriors may be able to capture "lightening in the bottle" one more time with another often-injured player with immense upside. We Warrior fans know that this franchise has created an iconic brand which extends beyond just what goes on both on-and-off the court; the Warriors have created an ecosystem which allows for aspirational players to plug into the "Warrior Way (medical, rehab, diet/nutrition, training, skills development, etc.)" A great example is Andrew Wiggins. The kid has blossomed in this Warrior Way.

The Warriors had previously traded for an often-injured and overweight Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis, resulting in the We Believe team.

Along with big risk is the opportunity to capture a huge reward.

I don't see the risks as remotely the same, though it's fine if you do. There was nothing in Curry's body type or play style that carried increased risk of injury, while with Zion, the risk is inherent in his body type and playing style. Plus as far as discipline and dedication goes, Steph and Zion are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Not all risks are the same.

EDIT: I'll also add that the Warriors in 2012 were in a position where they could afford to roll the dice on Curry's ankles. They had just gone 23-43 and were nowhere on anyone's playoff radar. If Curry's ankles didn't hold up, so what? But now, you're talking about risking championship contention and the last years of Curry's prime on Zion. Also not remotely the same thing.

Outside, great feedback.

I do not see an equivalency between Curry and Zion, but rather, see the current Warrior roster as having moveable/tradeable pieces, along with younger developmental talent (Poole, Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody) which can be leveraged into acquiring a potential superstar, Zion, to play alongside Curry, Thompson, Green, and Wiggins. With Kuminga, GP II, Looney, Moody, etc., coming off the bench, the rotation would be lethal and would cause opponents to experience some serious fear.

Question: Who else besides Kuminga has the power to drive to and attack the basket and either score and/or get to the foul line? In a close game, having this ability can be the difference maker.

[Outside]

I get the lure of Zion, I really do. But as the saying goes, the most important ability is availability, and Zion doesn't have that ability.

But in your question, you hit on the answer -- Kuminga. His explosiveness is startling. He just blows by and over people. Once he gets familiar with the system, he can be that guy. Plus he's a far more impactful defender than Zion.

[CS707]

Definitely not untouchable but I don't think we can trade him for a guy that realistically probably won't be available until next year if ever. While the hope is that Klay comes back as a starter it very well could play out with him as a more limited minute player in which case Poole is a necessary piece to have.

[shazam_guy]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: nearest comp to Zion Williamson is Larry Johnson. Some more recent fans may not remember him (or "Grandmama") but he and Zion were virtually identical in build and ability. Johnson's combination of speed, hops, and huge body made him one of the very best players in the NBA for his first few years, then his body began to break down on him. (In his case, his back, but I think there may have been knee issues too.) By the time he got to New York he was a shadow of his earlier self and was out of the league a few years later.

Comps are not definitive, obviously, but I first said that about Zion a couple of years ago and it's only looked more true since then. His body doesn't seem like it's going to survive an NBA career. Johnson, Walton, Greg Oden, Sam Bowie -- it happens to some unfortunate big men early, usually the knees/ankles/feet -- and Williamson sure looks like he's on that some track.

Absolutely a do-not-get for me, unless it's one some kind of OPJ, Bjelica sort of almost free contract.

PS If you need a more recent comp, check out Blake Griffin. Also an amazing physical specimen when he came into the league, but his body has been failing him for years. Do we really want to spend Zion money for a three point shooter who can't drive or play inside?

[Coxy]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: nearest comp to Zion Williamson is Larry Johnson. Some more recent fans may not remember him (or "Grandmama") but he and Zion were virtually identical in build and ability. Johnson's combination of speed, hops, and huge body made him one of the very best players in the NBA for his first few years, then his body began to break down on him. (In his case, his back, but I think there may have been knee issues too.) By the time he got to New York he was a shadow of his earlier self and was out of the league a few years later.

Comps are not definitive, obviously, but I first said that about Zion a couple of years ago and it's only looked more true since then. His body doesn't seem like it's going to survive an NBA career. Johnson, Walton, Greg Oden, Sam Bowie -- it happens to some unfortunate big men early, usually the knees/ankles/feet -- and Williamson sure looks like he's on that some track.

Absolutely a do-not-get for me, unless it's one some kind of OPJ, Bjelica sort of almost free contract.

PS If you need a more recent comp, check out Blake Griffin. Also an amazing physical specimen when he came into the league, but his body has been failing him for years. Do we really want to spend Zion money for a three point shooter who can't drive or play inside?

Some good comps there for sure.

I'll throw another 1 out, Philly Charles Barkley.

I'll always remember watching this video of Zion back in 2019, when he was walking through this lobby to catch up with AD. He has this really pronounced side to side action in his walk, like his entire body is having to sway and rock back and forth just to manage the weight shifting around his body. It's also the way he needs to hop jump just to get running as well, there is so much natural muscle weight in this kids body.

Watch on YouTube

I really want him to figure it out, and make sure he can be a long term NBA athlete. It would be really sad if he can't, he seems like such a good guy.

[shazam_guy]

Oh, definitely, I wish him only well. He's a great, exciting talent. But I wouldn't want to bet on his future with our team, unless (like New Orleans) we were already invested in him.

[michaelm]

I get the lure of Zion, I really do. But as the saying goes, the most important ability is availability, and Zion doesn't have that ability.

But in your question, you hit on the answer -- Kuminga. His explosiveness is startling. He just blows by and over people. Once he gets familiar with the system, he can be that guy. Plus he's a far more impactful defender than Zion.

It is something of a punt to regard Kuminga as being able to do what Zion can do as a player in the future, and Zion is a very high ceiling to reach offensively on what he has shown in the games he has played. But Kuminga becoming a high level offensive player if not at a healthy Zion's level is not an unreasonable expectation imo, and he is a much more fluid athlete who hasn't had weight or training issues and who it is again imo not unreasonable to expect will be more durable, is coachable and has shown discipline perhaps somewhat contrary to expectations, and more to the point as you say plays defense, which has been the keystone of the successful recent GSW teams.

It is In the Pelican's situation that a team is likely to take a punt on a possible generational talent with injury problems as GSW did with Curry as has been said, and if they were prepared to give him up it would suggest they were of the opinion he will never have the discipline to change or that he already has non resolvable injury issues. I wasn't around when Curry had his ankle problems, but I don't think there was ever any suggestion he didn't have discipline or wasn't prepared to put in the work to solve his problems; they also signed him to a contract that while fair at the time became close to the biggest bargain in NBA history which wouldn't be the case with Zion. Surely as a professional athlete being paid millions of dollars with nothing to do but train for basketball the least Zion could do is be fit enough to do his job, he can hire professional chefs and can have all the professional personnel or equipment in the world to aid his training. Lebron reputedly spends $1 million a year on maintaining health and fitness, which is well within the limits of affordability for Zion as well I would have thought. And maybe GSW would/could/should go all in on the likes of Zion to win a single further title in Curry's window, but that certainly doesn't seem to be their current approach, rightly or wrongly, and the veteran players themselves seem to be rather high on both Kuminga and Wiseman.

[xdrta+]

Of all the proposed trades shedding our youngsters, to me this is the weirdest. Injured player, doesn't appear to have any motivation to stay in shape, supposedly skipping rehab sessions--sounds like way too much to take on when you don't have to. The latest is that after receiving a biologic injection in his foot he'll be reevaluated in 4-6 weeks. Does anyone think he'll be back this season?
https://www.nba.com/pelicans/news/zion-williamson-medical-update-12-16-21

[watch1958]

Yep, this is an odd one. Not sure how getting a talented player who is out of shape & injured fits the “help Steph now” narrative.

[BBQ Thurmond]

Yep, this is an odd one. Not sure how getting a talented player who is out of shape & injured fits the “help Steph now” narrative.

In the 2020-2021 Covid-shortened season, Zion played 61 games and his averages were as follows:
31.7 minutes per game,
7.2 rebounds per game,
3.7 assists per game,
27.0 points per game

For Poole, Wiseman and draft picks, a trade for Zion should be considered. I do have concerns about Zion's ability to stay healthy and to get into better playing shape.

The issue of health and availability scare me less with Zion on the Warriors than him on the Pelicans. The Warriors are the one franchise in the NBA which has the environment where Zion's accountability towards staying in shape would be of less concern.

I just do not see the Pelicans making this deal unless Zion indicates to them that he will not re-sign at the end of his rookie contract.

[cladden]

There's still plenty of opportunity for Zion to be the best player in the league in 2 years. I don't see the Pels giving him up for any reasonable offer. It would take a huge overpay to get him IMO and I want no part of that.

[sonnyhill]

There's still plenty of opportunity for Zion to be the best player in the league in 2 years. I don't see the Pels giving him up for any reasonable offer. It would take a huge overpay to get him IMO and I want no part of that.

The Pelicans front office and its coaching staff are fighting for their jobs.

If Zion walks away from the franchise and does not re-sign with the team, David Griffin is gone. If the team shows not progress towards even getting into the play-in game, Griffin will be on the hot seat. Griffin let Lonzo go and did not draft Darius Garland, both would have fit in well with Ingram and Zion.

Strong franchises have leverage when doing deals with weak franchises. The Warriors might be able to swoop in, give up some redundant and not used assets (Poole and Wiseman) and future draft picks and pick up a distressed asset with huge upside (Zion).