What the hell are we trying to accomplish?

Chris Cohan · Post #21 » by **Chris Cohan** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 9:01 pm

I didn't get to see too much of Stuckey. No one really did, I don't think. But the hype was hot and what was available looked really good. Clearly physically and athletically ready, clearly plus talents, clearly not a standard small school ball hog idiot (though some tendencies to be worked on that Detroit will, hands down, be the most incredible place to work them out in possible).

What little we've gotten to see with Detroit shows real promise and I'd have been on board with Stuckey had he been available-- I was sold on the hype by draft day. Looks like I wouldn't have looked too dumb had I taken him based on just hearsay.

If Dudley were a Warrior with Wright, we'd be actively looking into getting return on Harrington with the expiring deals of Barnes and Pietrus to perhaps get something really special.

Post #22 » by **FNQ** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 9:18 pm

Stuckey

We're trying to accomplish what we already accomplished last season... that's a victory in most's eyes... the true goal should have been to get our young guys on the court to assimilate in the team... but if 40-50 wins and a rd 1 or rd 2 exit satisfies the masses... :dontknow:

Post #23 » by **Sleepy51** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 10:22 pm

510Reggae wrote:Stuckey

We're trying to accomplish what we already accomplished last season... that's a victory in most's eyes... the true goal should have been to get our young guys on the court to assimilate in the team... but if 40-50 wins and a rd 1 or rd 2 exit satisfies the masses...

43+ wins in the regular season and winning two games in 2nd round is (and should be) the goal. That is progress. Last year was the START of something, not the end of it. The assumption that there should be a way to instantly transform 13 years of losing culture on and off the floor into a near term champion without first just learning how to not suck for a few years seems odd to me.

This isn't like a college program where you can wholesale change the culture as soon as the old coaches seniors graduate. As we've learned over the last 13 years, just changing a coach does not change the character of an NBA franchise the ownership, leadership and organizational structure and habits have been built by people who lost NBA games for a living. It's going to take more than the blink of an eye to reverse that for any prolonged future.

ANY improvement this season (even possibly translated as treading water in a west that actually appears to have improved) is a success. It's not the endgame, but it helps change who this franchise is.

Post #24 » by **FNQ** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 10:34 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

43+ wins in the regular season and winning two games in 2nd round is (and should be) the goal. That is progress. Last year was the START of something, not the end of it. The assumption that there should be a way to instantly transform 13 years of losing culture on and off the floor into a near term champion without first just learning how to not suck for a few years seems odd to me.

This isn't like a college program where you can wholesale change the culture as soon as the old coaches seniors graduate. As we've learned over the last 13 years, just changing a coach does not change the character of an NBA franchise the ownership, leadership and organizational structure and habits have been built by people who lost NBA games for a living. It's going to take more than the blink of an eye to reverse that for any prolonged future.

ANY improvement this season (even possibly translated as treading water in a west that actually appears to have improved) is a success. It's not the endgame, but it helps change who this franchise is.

The goal is a championship. Are we taking steps towards it by playing Baron 48, rarely using our rookies, and signing stopgaps like Croshere, THudson and Mbenga?

The truth is we're at best in the same situation we were in last year. If Wright continues to play, that'll change. But the incredibly short leash with POB and the exceptionally long one with Jack, Barnes, Pietrus... what has it done to bring us any closer to a championship?

Culture is a very small factor... Celts added a premier big man, and they took off. You can count Allen as a "star" they added as well, but at this stage he's just an above average SG. Doc Rivers and Danny Ainge could have been replaced with anyone... and they'd still be by far the best in the East.

We need another PF/C, if not a star, at least a very solid one. Wright could be that. POB could have been that. But here we are, halfway through this season, and we have no idea what either can contribute. Unless the plan is to sign a marquee PF/C w/Baron opting out, all we're doing is spinning our wheels. Until it happens we're a gimmick, an exciting, hit-or-miss gimmick.

Chris Cohan · Post #25 » by **Chris Cohan** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 10:44 pm

Sleepy, I'm not exactly in opposition here.
But theory does not apply cleanly to the players in this minidrama:

Don Nelson is old and in a contract year.
Baron Davis is old and in a contract year.
Monta Ellis is young and in a contract year.
Andris Biedrins is young and in a contract year.
Stephen Jackson is, at the least, three completely different players depending upon mood, toxicity levels, altitude, sidearm caliber, stripper proximity-- WHATEVER.
Al Harrington is a peripheral piece.

THERE IS NO CORE.

Post #26 » by **Sleepy51** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 11:00 pm

510Reggae wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

The goal is a championship.

Snort, chortle, guffaw

We've covered this ground before. I believe in learning to walk before trying to run.

The Warrior franchise is not populated or staffed by people who learned to win in the NBA (Mulln had a career losing record with the W's.) Teaching those folks to run a winning organiztion win isn't going to happen overnight but yeah, a HOF big man falling into our laps is probably enough to overcome that. In the meantime, I want the franchise to build habits that will keep it from being an embarasment.

Post #27 » by **Sleepy51** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 11:02 pm

ROWELL wrote:Sleepy, I'm not exactly in opposition here.
But theory does not apply cleanly to the players in this minidrama:

Don Nelson is old and in a contract year.
Baron Davis is old and in a contract year.
Monta Ellis is young and in a contract year.
Andris Biedrins is young and in a contract year.
Stephen Jackson is, at the least, three completely different players depending upon mood, toxicity levels, altitude, sidearm caliber, stripper proximity-- WHATEVER.
Al Harrington is a peripheral piece.

THERE IS NO CORE.

Ellison will solve all that. We just need to not suck so bad that it impacts fan support and Cohan can't get the price he wants for the team.

Chris Cohan · Post #28 » by **Chris Cohan** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 11:17 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Ellison will solve all that. We just need to not suck so bad that it impacts fan support and Cohan can't get the price he wants for the team.

Larry Ellison Idealism
:love:

Chris Cohan · Post #29 » by **Chris Cohan** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 11:21 pm

PS, Mullin is a business buffoon.
Tell a friend: He sucks at math. Hardcore.

Post #30 » by **FNQ** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 11:41 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Snort, chortle, guffaw

We've covered this ground before. I believe in learning to walk before trying to run.

The Warrior franchise is not populated or staffed by people who learned to win in the NBA (Mulln had a career losing record with the W's.) Teaching those folks to run a winning organiztion win isn't going to happen overnight but yeah, a HOF big man falling into our laps is probably enough to overcome that. In the meantime, I want the franchise to build habits that will keep it from being an embarasment.

More wins, in this case, is walking in the wrong direction...our team is too talented to not win 30 games, but at some point we need a top PF/C or we're never going to get to the goal. And drafting one in the lottery and giving them either no chance (POB) or little chance (BW) isnt the answer... Nellie seems to have wised up about Wright finally, but I wouldnt believe **** until he does it...

If there were an option that was 10% likely to win us a title, for one season and 90% chance of us being an embarassment, I'd take it every time... 5%? Sure... Mediocrity is the worst, we just have a new, exciting way to do it.

Post #31 » by **floppymoose** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 12:49 am

I don't want to be the next Miami. I'd rather have a competitive team than one that wins a championship and then sucks for many years.

DBurks2818 · Post #32 » by **DBurks2818** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 1:30 am

floppymoose wrote:I don't want to be the next Miami. I'd rather have a competitive team than one that wins a championship and then sucks for many years.

To be fair, it's only been one year, and they've got a fine cap structure. Most people don't know that.

Trade for J-Will. It's time to suck it up and realize that he's exactly what you need :nod:

-bob- · Post #33 » by **-bob-** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 1:40 am

lets be realistic, we're not trading for a $8 Mil back-up PG who's been hurt all year, its not happening. JWill is too banged up to help us.

Post #34 » by **floppymoose** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:26 am

DBurks2818 wrote:To be fair, it's only been one year, and they've got a fine cap structure. Most people don't know that.

It's been two seasons of suckage (it's clear they will suck this season), and there are two more years on Shaq's mega deal after that.

darobster17 · Post #35 » by **darobster17** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:35 am

Well at least our Gm isn't delusional like Isiah Thomas saying that he will be part of a NBA championship. Zeke your new's year resolution should be:Put down the crack pipe and stop harassing your secretaries.

Heres the link:http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=CoachHotSeat-080103

We cannot talk championship until we consistently acquire players that fit the W's style and address the team's lack of rebounding and or interior scoring/defense.

We gave up a proven SG in Jrich, saved alot of money and didn't switch to Geico...no seriously though BWright SHOULD be playing more.

W's first move is to move MP for combo guard that can play some backup PG or SG. We need to rest BD imo.

We should then try to get Magloire from the Nets by dealing Patrick O'bryant or Croshere or Mbenga. Magloire has legit size, a veteran and is former BD teammate.

DBurks2818 · Post #36 » by **DBurks2818** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:54 am

floppymoose wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

It's been two seasons of suckage (it's clear they will suck this season), and there are two more years on Shaq's mega deal after that.

???

They were a 4th seed team last year that drew their worst possible matchup in the playoffs with their best player injured. Basically the exact opposite of what happened to a very fortunate Warriors team as a matter of fact.

If Miami was sucky last year, Golden State was really sucky

And I think we can all disagree with that.

Post #37 » by **floppymoose** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:02 am

Their record was the eastern conference equivalent of the Warriors record - and the Warriors only had a decent team for half of that season.

Sucked may be a strong word for them, but it was clear they were going nowhere in the playoffs.

DBurks2818 · Post #38 » by **DBurks2818** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 12:00 pm

floppymoose wrote:Their record was the eastern conference equivalent of the Warriors record - and the Warriors only had a decent team for half of that season.

Sucked may be a strong word for them, but it was clear they were going nowhere in the playoffs.

'and the Heat only had a decent team for half of that season.'

See? I kind of get what you're saying here, but it's a reach. The 07 team was better than the 06 title squad before Wade went down.

But again, I don't expect non-Heat fans to know stuff like that.

Post #39 » by **floppymoose** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 3:18 pm

DBurks... your point, if I understand it, is that the Heat had a second year in their title window. Personally, I don't buy that, though I do acknowledge they had bad luck with Wade's health and that certainly hurt them considerably.

But let's pretend I do buy that. If I do then it's two years of contention followed by 3 years of being saddled with a huge contract on a player that isn't going to help them contend. And during those three years, an all-star is going to waste with no team around him. I wouldn't like to be a Heat fan in that situation.

But fans are different. I know Warriors fans who simply want one more title and don't care what else that might mean. I can't say you are wrong if that's your view. It's a personal preference. It's just not mine.

DBurks2818 · Post #40 » by **DBurks2818** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:02 pm

That's soort of what I was saying, yeah. There was a point last year where the Heat were killing teams (Beat San Antonio full strength by almost 20) right after they had gotten Eddie Jones back. They had fixed all of their problems with the additions of Jones and Kapono's increased minutes (consistent perimeter defense and shooting) and were looking like they would be the team to beat in the ECF again. It was right after they had gotten Shaq back from like a 25-game absence for knee surgey and Riley back from his 15-game absence for surgery.

But that was before DW got that freak shoulder injury.

All I'm saying is that the Heat didn't "suck" last year. This is the first year they've actually been bad, but if you look at the current team and a surprisingly effective young core (that Riley had been reluctive to give minutes to), they've got a decent future. Shaq's the only unmoveable contract on the roster, and if Riley can get Rose or Beasely in the draft this year, and it looks like he'll be able to do that, the team will be right back in the mix in the ECF.

Anyway, sorry for derailing this topic. I love the Warriors and hope you guys make it back to the playoffs.