Trade Thread (EPISODE VI: Can't we just put EVERYTHING in the TE?)

[FNQ]

Dropped this on the trade board but figured I could get some feedback on this. I'm sure some will hate it and some will like it. Not sure who you guys take with #7 but I made an educated guess.

Memphis gets Wiseman
Ja, Brooks, Anderson, JJJ, Val -- Jones, Konchar, Allen, Clarke, Wiseman
Memphis lose a lot of depth here but gain a top 3 prospect from Tennessee all time and the chance to form a young trio of Ja, JJJ, Wiseman.

GSW get Melton, Tillman, Bane
Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Green, Tillman -- Melton, Poole, Bane, #7 (Jalen J, Kuminga), Looney
They split up Wiseman talent in to pieces that can support a championship run. And yet the 3 pieces are all young with potential to burn and on 3-year contracts. Tillman feels like the ideal GSW C to me, effectively a bigger version of Looney who can switch on perimeter, can hold his own against any C in the league, sets solid screens, rolls with speed and can hit the occasional 3. Melton and Bane offer quality 3 and D as bigger guards that can hold their own against most players 1 to 3.

Don’t love the idea of parting out Wiseman unless it’s in conjunction with a much bigger move. And I honestly like all the Memphis parts coming in, and think the value is close enough considering Wiseman’s disastrous rookie year. But this is more of a deadline deal where we 1) want to move on from Wiseman because he isn’t fitting and 2) still have a great need for depth

Considering we still have the 7/14 to figure out, we’d be looking at a huge rotation: Curry, Poole, Klay, Wiggins, Draymond, Looney, 7, 14, Melton, Tillman, Bane... 11 heads, and that doesnt count FAs and fringe guys who deserve some minutes (JTA, Lee)

I don't think you're getting much beyond those 11 heads. Some minimum guys only I'd suspect. You're looking at a huge salary and tax payment for those 11. You could give #14 to Mem to get your future FRP back, saves money/tax and opens flexibility.

I think it's smarter to trade Wiseman for win-now rotation pieces and use #7 and #14. The reason I think that is that Wiseman didn't look like a good fit with GSW, he has potential but that will take even longer to extract than #7 and #14 in this draft IMO. He might be better than the 3 guys coming back in this trade eventually but he won't be as impactful over the next 3 years.

JTA will start in the rotation regardless, so its more like 12. Lee's actually questionable though, and probably shouldnt be in the rotation to start. And 11-12 spots in a rotation is too much, thats usually when you try and consolidate. Dealing a lotto pick now for a 2024 1st wouldn't be consistent with what the rest of the trade is trying to do either.

Wiseman may not be a good fit, but that doesnt mean we need to part him out now. It's pulling the ripcord while you're still in the plane

[zimpy27]

Dropped this on the trade board but figured I could get some feedback on this. I'm sure some will hate it and some will like it. Not sure who you guys take with #7 but I made an educated guess.

Memphis gets Wiseman
Ja, Brooks, Anderson, JJJ, Val -- Jones, Konchar, Allen, Clarke, Wiseman
Memphis lose a lot of depth here but gain a top 3 prospect from Tennessee all time and the chance to form a young trio of Ja, JJJ, Wiseman.

GSW get Melton, Tillman, Bane
Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Green, Tillman -- Melton, Poole, Bane, #7 (Jalen J, Kuminga), Looney
They split up Wiseman talent in to pieces that can support a championship run. And yet the 3 pieces are all young with potential to burn and on 3-year contracts. Tillman feels like the ideal GSW C to me, effectively a bigger version of Looney who can switch on perimeter, can hold his own against any C in the league, sets solid screens, rolls with speed and can hit the occasional 3. Melton and Bane offer quality 3 and D as bigger guards that can hold their own against most players 1 to 3.

Don’t love the idea of parting out Wiseman unless it’s in conjunction with a much bigger move. And I honestly like all the Memphis parts coming in, and think the value is close enough considering Wiseman’s disastrous rookie year. But this is more of a deadline deal where we 1) want to move on from Wiseman because he isn’t fitting and 2) still have a great need for depth

Considering we still have the 7/14 to figure out, we’d be looking at a huge rotation: Curry, Poole, Klay, Wiggins, Draymond, Looney, 7, 14, Melton, Tillman, Bane... 11 heads, and that doesnt count FAs and fringe guys who deserve some minutes (JTA, Lee)

i honestly don't think Memphis makes that deal today, and if we Wiseman still shows hes not a good fit by the deadline, his value is gonna get even lower

i think we're stuck w/ Wiseman for now unless he shows better next season and then flip him at the deadline while his value is up hopefully.

Memphis would do it more than any other team. He's from there effectively, he played under Penny. He also fits the timeline for them with Ja and JJJ to start making real noise in 3 years. You're effectively leveraging emotional attachment to get more value for Wiseman than he deserves.

[zimpy27]

Don’t love the idea of parting out Wiseman unless it’s in conjunction with a much bigger move. And I honestly like all the Memphis parts coming in, and think the value is close enough considering Wiseman’s disastrous rookie year. But this is more of a deadline deal where we 1) want to move on from Wiseman because he isn’t fitting and 2) still have a great need for depth

Considering we still have the 7/14 to figure out, we’d be looking at a huge rotation: Curry, Poole, Klay, Wiggins, Draymond, Looney, 7, 14, Melton, Tillman, Bane... 11 heads, and that doesnt count FAs and fringe guys who deserve some minutes (JTA, Lee)

I don't think you're getting much beyond those 11 heads. Some minimum guys only I'd suspect. You're looking at a huge salary and tax payment for those 11. You could give #14 to Mem to get your future FRP back, saves money/tax and opens flexibility.

I think it's smarter to trade Wiseman for win-now rotation pieces and use #7 and #14. The reason I think that is that Wiseman didn't look like a good fit with GSW, he has potential but that will take even longer to extract than #7 and #14 in this draft IMO. He might be better than the 3 guys coming back in this trade eventually but he won't be as impactful over the next 3 years.

JTA will start in the rotation regardless, so its more like 12. Lee's actually questionable though, and probably shouldnt be in the rotation to start. And 11-12 spots in a rotation is too much, thats usually when you try and consolidate. Dealing a lotto pick now for a 2024 1st wouldn't be consistent with what the rest of the trade is trying to do either.

Wiseman may not be a good fit, but that doesnt mean we need to part him out now. It's pulling the ripcord while you're still in the plane

Nah, this is jumping out the plane and landing to safety with time to spare. Pulling the ripcord in the plane will be what happens when you stay on Wiseman and he looks bad again next season in a system that doesn't fit him. You pull the ripcord in a frantic hurry to jump off the plane and take whatever you can get or wait until he leaves in RFA.

[FNQ]

I don't think you're getting much beyond those 11 heads. Some minimum guys only I'd suspect. You're looking at a huge salary and tax payment for those 11. You could give #14 to Mem to get your future FRP back, saves money/tax and opens flexibility.

I think it's smarter to trade Wiseman for win-now rotation pieces and use #7 and #14. The reason I think that is that Wiseman didn't look like a good fit with GSW, he has potential but that will take even longer to extract than #7 and #14 in this draft IMO. He might be better than the 3 guys coming back in this trade eventually but he won't be as impactful over the next 3 years.

JTA will start in the rotation regardless, so its more like 12. Lee's actually questionable though, and probably shouldnt be in the rotation to start. And 11-12 spots in a rotation is too much, thats usually when you try and consolidate. Dealing a lotto pick now for a 2024 1st wouldn't be consistent with what the rest of the trade is trying to do either.

Wiseman may not be a good fit, but that doesnt mean we need to part him out now. It's pulling the ripcord while you're still in the plane

Nah, this is jumping out the plane and landing to safety with time to spare. Pulling the ripcord in the plane will be what happens when you stay on Wiseman and he looks bad again next season in a system that doesn't fit him. You pull the ripcord in a frantic hurry to jump off the plane and take whatever you can get or wait until he leaves in RFA.

So we've given him all of no offseason time to learn our complex offense/defense, and give up on him because every time he started to show flashes, he gets hurt?

No sale. Bad pitch too, tbh. The selling point is that the Grizzlies players are good role players, not that we need to get rid of Wiseman quick. Even if he's not in the style of our typical Cs, he has the skillset of a player that many can be interested in. Lengthy, rangy, frame to add muscle, has a jumper, has some handles. You don't trip over yourself to deal a young player at a low value point for role players that puts your rotation in double digits

[zimpy27]

JTA will start in the rotation regardless, so its more like 12. Lee's actually questionable though, and probably shouldnt be in the rotation to start. And 11-12 spots in a rotation is too much, thats usually when you try and consolidate. Dealing a lotto pick now for a 2024 1st wouldn't be consistent with what the rest of the trade is trying to do either.

Wiseman may not be a good fit, but that doesnt mean we need to part him out now. It's pulling the ripcord while you're still in the plane

Nah, this is jumping out the plane and landing to safety with time to spare. Pulling the ripcord in the plane will be what happens when you stay on Wiseman and he looks bad again next season in a system that doesn't fit him. You pull the ripcord in a frantic hurry to jump off the plane and take whatever you can get or wait until he leaves in RFA.

So we've given him all of no offseason time to learn our complex offense/defense, and give up on him because every time he started to show flashes, he gets hurt?

No sale. Bad pitch too, tbh. The selling point is that the Grizzlies players are good role players, not that we need to get rid of Wiseman quick. Even if he's not in the style of our typical Cs, he has the skillset of a player that many can be interested in. Lengthy, rangy, frame to add muscle, has a jumper, has some handles. You don't trip over yourself to deal a young player at a low value point for role players that puts your rotation in double digits

Two of the guys your trading for have also had one season and they looked great.
"Lengthy, rangy, frame to add muscle, has a jumper, has some handles" those are good reason to draft someone before you see them play. Now you've seen him play.

Do you trip over yourself to trade for young players that have contributed to a playoff team?

[FNQ]

Nah, this is jumping out the plane and landing to safety with time to spare. Pulling the ripcord in the plane will be what happens when you stay on Wiseman and he looks bad again next season in a system that doesn't fit him. You pull the ripcord in a frantic hurry to jump off the plane and take whatever you can get or wait until he leaves in RFA.

So we've given him all of no offseason time to learn our complex offense/defense, and give up on him because every time he started to show flashes, he gets hurt?

No sale. Bad pitch too, tbh. The selling point is that the Grizzlies players are good role players, not that we need to get rid of Wiseman quick. Even if he's not in the style of our typical Cs, he has the skillset of a player that many can be interested in. Lengthy, rangy, frame to add muscle, has a jumper, has some handles. You don't trip over yourself to deal a young player at a low value point for role players that puts your rotation in double digits

Two of the guys your trading for have also had one season and they looked great.
"Lengthy, rangy, frame to add muscle, has a jumper, has some handles" those are good reason to draft someone before you see them play. Now you've seen him play.

Do you trip over yourself to trade for young players that have contributed to a playoff team?

Nah, I wouldn't to trade for 3 role players on a team that just barely eeked into the playoffs. Not when the asset I'm giving up could be used in a much larger deal, there's no urgency to do it, and again, it makes our rotation double-digit deep.. with the justification being that the talent we drafted just doesn't fit.

And if he's just not that talented, why is MEM interested? If they are interested, why aren't other teams, maybe with less quantity and more quality?

[Mac1958]

I'd sure love to know what's going on behind the scenes with Curry, how influential he is in all this, and whether he's indeed pushing hard for a "win now" approach at the expense of the future.

With the talent in this draft, #7 and #14 could both be very solid contributors in a year or two, and most teams would be salivating at having those two picks to build on for the future.

I do think he probably is pushing to win now, but I've learned not to make assumptions.

[Commodor]

If Boston is looking for a PG upgrade maybe something along the lines of:

Bos Out: Smart+salary filler+draft picls
Bos In: Sexton

CLE out: Sexton
CLE In: Wiseman+filler+draft capital

GSW out: Wiseman
GSW in: Smart

Still have to work the salary side

[Scoots1994]

Lucky? No

3 words.
Light. Years. Ahead.

Some people work really hard to find blame.

[whatisacenter]

I'd sure love to know what's going on behind the scenes with Curry, how influential he is in all this, and whether he's indeed pushing hard for a "win now" approach at the expense of the future.

With the talent in this draft, #7 and #14 could both be very solid contributors in a year or two, and most teams would be salivating at having those two picks to build on for the future.

I do think he probably is pushing to win now, but I've learned not to make assumptions.

I agree, last year Curry and Dray both spoke favorably of Wiseman and Green took him under his wing. But now both have made comments that could be interpreted as wanting to trade assets for the win now but nothing concrete. I hope if the vets on the team do want to trade the farm for a star that they do it behind the scenes and recruit a player who requests a trade to the Dubs rather than making a move just to make a move.

[Commodor]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Did you just quote your own tweet here?

[Scoots1994]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Did you just quote your own tweet here?

Don't you understand that he TWEETS?!? The man uses twitter!

[EvanZ]

Once again not talking about basketball. Good look. It really is sad how much some of you are focusing on the way I post content here.

[Mob Byers]

White is poison pilled, not sure there is even a trade that works

[whatisacenter]

White is poison pilled, not sure there is even a trade that works

???? I don’t follow.

[Mob Byers]

White is poison pilled, not sure there is even a trade that works

???? I don’t follow.

Poison Pill Protection
If a guy on a rookie scale signs an extension and is traded before the extension takes effect it has some wonky effects:

For salary-matching purposes, if a player is traded between the time his rookie contract is extended and before that extension takes effect, the player’s incoming value for the receiving team is the average of his current-year salary and the annual salary in each year of his extension. His current team, on the other hand, simply treats his current-year salary as the outgoing figure for matching purposes.

But looking at it again, I guess the trade would happen when his extension kicks in? Not sure when that is at this point, I assume when the new league year starts?

[xdrta+]

Once again not talking about basketball. Good look. It really is sad how much some of you are focusing on the way I post content here.

Nobody's "focusing" on it, they're just laughing at it (you).

[xdrta+]

White is poison pilled, not sure there is even a trade that works

???? I don’t follow.

Poison Pill Protection
If a guy on a rookie scale signs an extension and is traded before the extension takes effect it has some wonky effects:

For salary-matching purposes, if a player is traded between the time his rookie contract is extended and before that extension takes effect, the player’s incoming value for the receiving team is the average of his current-year salary and the annual salary in each year of his extension. His current team, on the other hand, simply treats his current-year salary as the outgoing figure for matching purposes.

But looking at it again, I guess the trade would happen when his extension kicks in? Not sure when that is at this point, I assume when the new league year starts?

Yeah, the extension would kick in on Aug. 3, the official start of 2021-22 league year.

[whatisacenter]

White is poison pilled, not sure there is even a trade that works

???? I don’t follow.

ahhh, Derrick White poison pill contract, I did not know the context because I missed the tweet-quote.

[shazam_guy]

I keep seeing people talking about how we need to trade Wiseman, Wiggins, and our draft picks (or some large combination thereof) for a "star" who's going to help us win now.

But I haven't yet seen a single star who's available and would also move our championship needle very much. Seriously. Lillard, Simmons, great players but super-expensive, bad fits. Siakam -- quite possibly overrated based on one excellent year playing with Kawhi. And I seriously doubt that Kawhi himself is leaving LA.

Now someone's just suggested trading Wiseman for Marcus Smart, who's a good defender but doesn't really add anything else -- certainly not a three-point stroke. Basically, they're saying Wiseman is Chris Washburn and we should dump him at any cost. Which is at the very least a stupid trade philosophy.

I think it's time for some of the folks on this board to just say out loud, "We hate the Wiseman pick. We'd take anything just to get rid of him, even Darko or Anthony Bennett." Then at least we can have an honest conversation. Because there is no useful star the Warriors are reasonably going to be able get this offseason even if we sacrifice hugely, and swapping Wiseman out (along with possibly Wiggins and/or our picks) for a journeyman seems to be the most you can hope for at this stage.

The Wiseman hate -- particularly from a few very busy posters here -- is way over the top. You'd think this kid had OD'ed on meth twice during the season, choked a coach, and beaten up several girlfriends, instead of being a young, raw big with a huge potential upside and an apparent will to work hard and get better.

And many on the board did the EXACT SAME THING with Jordan Poole the year before. Turns out he's pretty okay. Huh. Who could have guessed?