Is Klay Thompson overrated?

[FNQ]

See, I just don't understand this POV, unless you equate a #1 scoring option to a ball dominant scorer, like Jordan, Harden, Curry, LeBron. Clearly, Klay is not and likely never will be that. However, there are #1 scoring options like Dirk who play more off the ball and rely on playmakers. I think Klay's career can be very much like Dirk's, with Klay being a better 3 pt shooter and defender, and Dirk being the better rebounder. Go back and look at Dirk's game logs over the years and you'll see the same kinds of variances in his scoring that you see with Klay, 25% one game, 65% the next...its the nature of players who score a lot from outside, but it is the threat of the 65% game that consistently spreads the floor and creates scoring opportunities for other players on the court.

Your argument with Dirk is interesting so I actually looked up the game logs.

Dirk has played 1296 regular season games and his fg% is below 40% only 30% of the time.

Klay is much more likely to shoot below 40%. In fact, 41% of Klay's games have fg% below 40%. In addition, 14% of Klay's games is below 30%. So every 1-2 games out of 10, Klay will shot below 30%. Nearly half of Klay's games he shoots below 40%.

Bottom line is Klay needs to be more consistent and this is what everyone is asking for. He is anything but consistent right now.

Good try though.

An example using TS% would be far more meaningful considering 42% of Klay's FGA to date were 3s compared to Dirk's 20%

[a8bil]

See, I just don't understand this POV, unless you equate a #1 scoring option to a ball dominant scorer, like Jordan, Harden, Curry, LeBron. Clearly, Klay is not and likely never will be that. However, there are #1 scoring options like Dirk who play more off the ball and rely on playmakers. I think Klay's career can be very much like Dirk's, with Klay being a better 3 pt shooter and defender, and Dirk being the better rebounder. Go back and look at Dirk's game logs over the years and you'll see the same kinds of variances in his scoring that you see with Klay, 25% one game, 65% the next...its the nature of players who score a lot from outside, but it is the threat of the 65% game that consistently spreads the floor and creates scoring opportunities for other players on the court.

Your argument with Dirk is interesting so I actually looked up the game logs.

Dirk has played 1296 regular season games and his fg% is below 40% only 30% of the time.

Klay is much more likely to shoot below 40%. In fact, 41% of Klay's games have fg% below 40%. In addition, 14% of Klay's games is below 30%. So every 1-2 games out of 10, Klay will shot below 30%. Nearly half of Klay's games he shoots below 40%.

Bottom line is Klay needs to be more consistent and this is what everyone is asking for. He is anything but consistent right now.

Good try though.

first, for context, let's acknowledge that we're talking about a future HOF player in Dirk, and one of the best outside shooters of this most recent generation of players. Second, let's agree that comparing Dirk's first five seasons is the proper analysis.

98-99 = 27 of 47 games at 40% or less, 19 of 47 at 30% or less
99-00 = 33 of 82 at 40% or less, 5 of 82 at 30% or less
00-01 = 21 of 82 at 40% or less, 7 of 82 at 30% or less
01-02 = 20 of 76 at 40% or less, 9 of 76 at 30% or less
02-03 = 25 of 77 at 40%, 9 of 77 at 30% or less

Klay

1st year = 36 of 66 at 40% or less, 11 of 66 at 30% or less
2nd year = 39 of 82 at 40% or less, 11 of 82 at 30% or less
3rd year = 31 of 82 at 40% or less, 11 of 82 at 30% or less
4th year - 20 of 77 at 40% or less, 8 of 77 at 30 or less
5th year = 10 of 31 at 40% or less, 3 of 31 at 30 or less

So Klay has been more consistent in three years (assuming klay stays on pace this year), Dirk more consistent in two. But more importantly, Klay was as efficient in his 4th year as any year as Dirk was in any of his first 5 years, and Klay's trajectory is on a path to more consistency. In fact, Dirk was really no more consistent than Klay was last year (or the level Klay is playing this year) until Dirk had 8 years' in the league. Should Klay be striving for the level of consistency Dirk achieved at his peak? Yes, but as I noted, I think he can have Dirk's type of career because he's already on pace to do so---and he's a much better defender than Dirk ever dreamed of being.

So again, nice try. My point in comparing Klay to Dirk is entirely valid. Why you refuse to acknowledge how good Klay is already in his career is just sad. You're missing a great opportunity as a fan to appreciate having two of the best scorers of this generation of players in the same backcourt.

[bakesale]

See, I just don't understand this POV, unless you equate a #1 scoring option to a ball dominant scorer, like Jordan, Harden, Curry, LeBron. Clearly, Klay is not and likely never will be that. However, there are #1 scoring options like Dirk who play more off the ball and rely on playmakers. I think Klay's career can be very much like Dirk's, with Klay being a better 3 pt shooter and defender, and Dirk being the better rebounder. Go back and look at Dirk's game logs over the years and you'll see the same kinds of variances in his scoring that you see with Klay, 25% one game, 65% the next...its the nature of players who score a lot from outside, but it is the threat of the 65% game that consistently spreads the floor and creates scoring opportunities for other players on the court.

Your argument with Dirk is interesting so I actually looked up the game logs.

Dirk has played 1296 regular season games and his fg% is below 40% only 30% of the time.

Klay is much more likely to shoot below 40%. In fact, 41% of Klay's games have fg% below 40%. In addition, 14% of Klay's games is below 30%. So every 1-2 games out of 10, Klay will shot below 30%. Nearly half of Klay's games he shoots below 40%.

Bottom line is Klay needs to be more consistent and this is what everyone is asking for. He is anything but consistent right now.

Good try though.

An example using TS% would be far more meaningful considering 42% of Klay's FGA to date were 3s compared to Dirk's 20%

Exactly!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bakesale]

See, I just don't understand this POV, unless you equate a #1 scoring option to a ball dominant scorer, like Jordan, Harden, Curry, LeBron. Clearly, Klay is not and likely never will be that. However, there are #1 scoring options like Dirk who play more off the ball and rely on playmakers. I think Klay's career can be very much like Dirk's, with Klay being a better 3 pt shooter and defender, and Dirk being the better rebounder. Go back and look at Dirk's game logs over the years and you'll see the same kinds of variances in his scoring that you see with Klay, 25% one game, 65% the next...its the nature of players who score a lot from outside, but it is the threat of the 65% game that consistently spreads the floor and creates scoring opportunities for other players on the court.

Your argument with Dirk is interesting so I actually looked up the game logs.

Dirk has played 1296 regular season games and his fg% is below 40% only 30% of the time.

Klay is much more likely to shoot below 40%. In fact, 41% of Klay's games have fg% below 40%. In addition, 14% of Klay's games is below 30%. So every 1-2 games out of 10, Klay will shot below 30%. Nearly half of Klay's games he shoots below 40%.

Bottom line is Klay needs to be more consistent and this is what everyone is asking for. He is anything but consistent right now.

Good try though.

first, for context, let's acknowledge that we're talking about a future HOF player in Dirk, and one of the best outside shooters of this most recent generation of players. Second, let's agree that comparing Dirk's first five seasons is the proper analysis.

98-99 = 27 of 47 games at 40% or less, 19 of 47 at 30% or less
99-00 = 33 of 82 at 40% or less, 5 of 82 at 30% or less
00-01 = 21 of 82 at 40% or less, 7 of 82 at 30% or less
01-02 = 20 of 76 at 40% or less, 9 of 76 at 30% or less
02-03 = 25 of 77 at 40%, 9 of 77 at 30% or less

Klay

1st year = 36 of 66 at 40% or less, 11 of 66 at 30% or less
2nd year = 39 of 82 at 40% or less, 11 of 82 at 30% or less
3rd year = 31 of 82 at 40% or less, 11 of 82 at 30% or less
4th year - 20 of 77 at 40% or less, 8 of 77 at 30 or less
5th year = 10 of 31 at 40% or less, 3 of 31 at 30 or less

So Klay has been more consistent in three years (assuming klay stays on pace this year), Dirk more consistent in two. But more importantly, Klay was as efficient in his 4th year as any year as Dirk was in any of his first 5 years, and Klay's trajectory is on a path to more consistency. In fact, Dirk was really no more consistent than Klay was last year (or the level Klay is playing this year) until Dirk had 8 years' in the league. Should Klay be striving for the level of consistency Dirk achieved at his peak? Yes, but as I noted, I think he can have Dirk's type of career because he's already on pace to do so---and he's a much better defender than Dirk ever dreamed of being.

So again, nice try. My point in comparing Klay to Dirk is entirely valid. Why you refuse to acknowledge how good Klay is already in his career is just sad. You're missing a great opportunity as a fan to appreciate having two of the best scorers of this generation of players in the same backcourt.

Well put thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[likashing]

first, for context, let's acknowledge that we're talking about a future HOF player in Dirk, and one of the best outside shooters of this most recent generation of players. Second, let's agree that comparing Dirk's first five seasons is the proper analysis.

98-99 = 27 of 47 games at 40% or less, 19 of 47 at 30% or less
99-00 = 33 of 82 at 40% or less, 5 of 82 at 30% or less
00-01 = 21 of 82 at 40% or less, 7 of 82 at 30% or less
01-02 = 20 of 76 at 40% or less, 9 of 76 at 30% or less
02-03 = 25 of 77 at 40%, 9 of 77 at 30% or less

Klay

1st year = 36 of 66 at 40% or less, 11 of 66 at 30% or less
2nd year = 39 of 82 at 40% or less, 11 of 82 at 30% or less
3rd year = 31 of 82 at 40% or less, 11 of 82 at 30% or less
4th year - 20 of 77 at 40% or less, 8 of 77 at 30 or less
5th year = 10 of 31 at 40% or less, 3 of 31 at 30 or less

So Klay has been more consistent in three years (assuming klay stays on pace this year), Dirk more consistent in two. But more importantly, Klay was as efficient in his 4th year as any year as Dirk was in any of his first 5 years, and Klay's trajectory is on a path to more consistency. In fact, Dirk was really no more consistent than Klay was last year (or the level Klay is playing this year) until Dirk had 8 years' in the league. Should Klay be striving for the level of consistency Dirk achieved at his peak? Yes, but as I noted, I think he can have Dirk's type of career because he's already on pace to do so---and he's a much better defender than Dirk ever dreamed of being.

So again, nice try. My point in comparing Klay to Dirk is entirely valid. Why you refuse to acknowledge how good Klay is already in his career is just sad. You're missing a great opportunity as a fan to appreciate having two of the best scorers of this generation of players in the same backcourt.

Firstly, you did not say there was a qualifier that Klay's first 2-3 seasons could not be included. It is apparent that you just pulled the Dirk argument out of your arse without knowing the numbers. But I looked at your numbers, and they are all curiously wrong in favor of Klay compared to the numbers in basketball-reference.com.

Klay's 3rd year - he played in 81 games and shot below 40% or less 33 times and below 30% or less 12 times. In his 4th season, he shot below 40% or less 21 times and below 30% or less 8 times.

For Dirk, in his 5th season, he actually played in 80 games and shot below 40% or below only 19 times, and below 30% only 7 times.

The errors are all in Klay's favor, of course right? Of course Dirk played in fewer games and shot worse more times

But let's not talk about these. These numbers all includes time with Steph. No one has argued that Klay sucks riding Steph's coattail. People's complain has been Klay sucks when not riding Steph's coattail. He has been shooting 38% with a ts% of 46% without Steph this season, which is horrific. This is the only complain most have about Klay.

I can't even recall which great scorer Dirk has played with, but you used Klay's numbers with Steph to compare against Dirk to make Klay (and your argument) look legitimate. So from the get go, you have compared with apples and oranges.

You first brought up this Dirk argument out of your arse, then once confronted with numbers, you added qualifiers and wrong numbers to make your argument look better.

This is getting too far and I have spent enough time with you until you actually bring up facts and real numbers.

I don't even know why I am comparing Dirk and Klay with you. Let alone numbers made up by you. Ridiculous.

[sjballer03]

Your argument with Dirk is interesting so I actually looked up the game logs.

Dirk has played 1296 regular season games and his fg% is below 40% only 30% of the time.

Klay is much more likely to shoot below 40%. In fact, 41% of Klay's games have fg% below 40%. In addition, 14% of Klay's games is below 30%. So every 1-2 games out of 10, Klay will shot below 30%. Nearly half of Klay's games he shoots below 40%.

Bottom line is Klay needs to be more consistent and this is what everyone is asking for. He is anything but consistent right now.

Good try though.

first, for context, let's acknowledge that we're talking about a future HOF player in Dirk, and one of the best outside shooters of this most recent generation of players. Second, let's agree that comparing Dirk's first five seasons is the proper analysis.

98-99 = 27 of 47 games at 40% or less, 19 of 47 at 30% or less
99-00 = 33 of 82 at 40% or less, 5 of 82 at 30% or less
00-01 = 21 of 82 at 40% or less, 7 of 82 at 30% or less
01-02 = 20 of 76 at 40% or less, 9 of 76 at 30% or less
02-03 = 25 of 77 at 40%, 9 of 77 at 30% or less

Klay

1st year = 36 of 66 at 40% or less, 11 of 66 at 30% or less
2nd year = 39 of 82 at 40% or less, 11 of 82 at 30% or less
3rd year = 31 of 82 at 40% or less, 11 of 82 at 30% or less
4th year - 20 of 77 at 40% or less, 8 of 77 at 30 or less
5th year = 10 of 31 at 40% or less, 3 of 31 at 30 or less

So Klay has been more consistent in three years (assuming klay stays on pace this year), Dirk more consistent in two. But more importantly, Klay was as efficient in his 4th year as any year as Dirk was in any of his first 5 years, and Klay's trajectory is on a path to more consistency. In fact, Dirk was really no more consistent than Klay was last year (or the level Klay is playing this year) until Dirk had 8 years' in the league. Should Klay be striving for the level of consistency Dirk achieved at his peak? Yes, but as I noted, I think he can have Dirk's type of career because he's already on pace to do so---and he's a much better defender than Dirk ever dreamed of being.

So again, nice try. My point in comparing Klay to Dirk is entirely valid. Why you refuse to acknowledge how good Klay is already in his career is just sad. You're missing a great opportunity as a fan to appreciate having two of the best scorers of this generation of players in the same backcourt.

"But but he's making 70 million!"

[likashing]

And, back under their rocks go all the Klay detractors. LOL.

Which rock? The one that says "Klay is better than PG13"?

Hmmm...I'ld be interested to see where I said Klay is "better" than PG13. I don't remember ever holding that thought. If that sounded like my position, then let me clarify that I don't think Klay is better than George. What I recall thinking is why do some people think George is much better than Klay.

You see, I don't watch George enough to know how good he is. What I do see is George's stats, and they tell me that George has never raised his TS% to a level above where Klay was at two years ago. You know, back at a time when posters like you were complaining that Klay was an inefficient chucker. Why is George considered by people like you to be a stud when his TS% is .55, and Klay is a "volume scorer" at the same level? Better yet, how do you elevate George over Klay, when Klay's TS% is .60, with better shooting numbers across the board? George has slightly better assist numbers, but his ast/tov ratio is the same as Klay's so its hard to make the case George is a better playmaker. The only stat that George has a material advantage over Klay on is rebounds...but are we evaluating these players on their rebounding effort?

Seems to me that you can't make the case that George is clearly the better player without engaging in some substantial hypocrisy. Why is that not true ( and please don't respond with, "you're crazy if you don't think PG13 is better than Klay." Make the case for why I or anyone else should consider him the obviously superior player.)?

I find the unquestioned love of Paul George to be curious. He shoots 42% from the field and 36% from the 3 pt line, and he's less consistent as well. Our fans would skewer him if he actually played here and they actually had to watch him fire up and miss shots. His TS% has never been higher that what detractors want to label "bad" klay.

He's a better defender and rebounder than klay, but I take Klay's better shooting and scoring 8 out of 10 times.

If you are taking Klay 8 out of 10 times ahead of PG13 but don't think Klay is better...

Btw, PG13 is the undisputed alpha on his team, so is Dirk, while Klay's numbers are when riding Steph's coattail and Klay's shooting (which you are fond of) is bad when Steph is not with him. Talk about playing style all you want, but you make yourself look ridiculous by comparing Klay against first PG13, then Dirk. Those guys have proven they can be the alpha and lead their team to win, while Klay has done none of so far in his career.

One more stat for the Klay lovers re: his spacing effect to improve the team's offensive efficiency:

Points per 100 possessions:

Klay on: 117.4

Klay off: 108.1

Before we get too happy...

Klay on + Steph off: 99.7

Klay and Steph both off: 103.2

Before others put words in my mouth, I want to make it clear that I don't hate Klay. I just don't think he is as good as many here think, while he makes the top $ on this team and is maybe at most the #3-4 guy on the team.

[a8bil]

Which rock? The one that says "Klay is better than PG13"?

Hmmm...I'ld be interested to see where I said Klay is "better" than PG13. I don't remember ever holding that thought. If that sounded like my position, then let me clarify that I don't think Klay is better than George. What I recall thinking is why do some people think George is much better than Klay.

You see, I don't watch George enough to know how good he is. What I do see is George's stats, and they tell me that George has never raised his TS% to a level above where Klay was at two years ago. You know, back at a time when posters like you were complaining that Klay was an inefficient chucker. Why is George considered by people like you to be a stud when his TS% is .55, and Klay is a "volume scorer" at the same level? Better yet, how do you elevate George over Klay, when Klay's TS% is .60, with better shooting numbers across the board? George has slightly better assist numbers, but his ast/tov ratio is the same as Klay's so its hard to make the case George is a better playmaker. The only stat that George has a material advantage over Klay on is rebounds...but are we evaluating these players on their rebounding effort?

Seems to me that you can't make the case that George is clearly the better player without engaging in some substantial hypocrisy. Why is that not true ( and please don't respond with, "you're crazy if you don't think PG13 is better than Klay." Make the case for why I or anyone else should consider him the obviously superior player.)?

I find the unquestioned love of Paul George to be curious. He shoots 42% from the field and 36% from the 3 pt line, and he's less consistent as well. Our fans would skewer him if he actually played here and they actually had to watch him fire up and miss shots. His TS% has never been higher that what detractors want to label "bad" klay.

He's a better defender and rebounder than klay, but I take Klay's better shooting and scoring 8 out of 10 times.

If you are taking Klay 8 out of 10 times ahead of PG13 but don't think Klay is better...

Btw, PG13 is the undisputed alpha on his team, so is Dirk, while Klay's numbers are when riding Steph's coattail and Klay's shooting (which you are fond of) is bad when Steph is not with him. Talk about playing style all you want, but you make yourself look ridiculous by comparing Klay against first PG13, then Dirk. Those guys have proven they can be the alpha and lead their team to win, while Klay has done none of so far in his career.

One more stat for the Klay lovers re: his spacing effect to improve the team's offensive efficiency:

Points per 100 possessions:

Klay on: 117.4

Klay off: 108.1

Before we get too happy...

Klay on + Steph off: 99.7

Klay and Steph both off: 103.2

Before others put words in my mouth, I want to make it clear that I don't hate Klay. I just don't think he is as good as many here think, while he makes the top $ on this team and is maybe at most the #3-4 guy on the team.

You do understand that there is a difference between "taking" Klay's shooting 8 of 10 times and saying he's a better player, don't you? You have made several posts in this thread mocking me on the premise that I claimed Klay was better than PG. Now are you willing to man up and admit that you falsely described my position, or are you going to keep playing your games?

And, as I expected, you make no effort to defend your actual position that PG is the clearly better player. And oh, by the way, I accidentally recorded Dirk's six season in the other post...but the stats tell the same story, and you don't want to address the point...just more sophistry.

[bakesale]

Which rock? The one that says "Klay is better than PG13"?

Hmmm...I'ld be interested to see where I said Klay is "better" than PG13. I don't remember ever holding that thought. If that sounded like my position, then let me clarify that I don't think Klay is better than George. What I recall thinking is why do some people think George is much better than Klay.

You see, I don't watch George enough to know how good he is. What I do see is George's stats, and they tell me that George has never raised his TS% to a level above where Klay was at two years ago. You know, back at a time when posters like you were complaining that Klay was an inefficient chucker. Why is George considered by people like you to be a stud when his TS% is .55, and Klay is a "volume scorer" at the same level? Better yet, how do you elevate George over Klay, when Klay's TS% is .60, with better shooting numbers across the board? George has slightly better assist numbers, but his ast/tov ratio is the same as Klay's so its hard to make the case George is a better playmaker. The only stat that George has a material advantage over Klay on is rebounds...but are we evaluating these players on their rebounding effort?

Seems to me that you can't make the case that George is clearly the better player without engaging in some substantial hypocrisy. Why is that not true ( and please don't respond with, "you're crazy if you don't think PG13 is better than Klay." Make the case for why I or anyone else should consider him the obviously superior player.)?

I find the unquestioned love of Paul George to be curious. He shoots 42% from the field and 36% from the 3 pt line, and he's less consistent as well. Our fans would skewer him if he actually played here and they actually had to watch him fire up and miss shots. His TS% has never been higher that what detractors want to label "bad" klay.

He's a better defender and rebounder than klay, but I take Klay's better shooting and scoring 8 out of 10 times.

If you are taking Klay 8 out of 10 times ahead of PG13 but don't think Klay is better...

Btw, PG13 is the undisputed alpha on his team, so is Dirk, while Klay's numbers are when riding Steph's coattail and Klay's shooting (which you are fond of) is bad when Steph is not with him. Talk about playing style all you want, but you make yourself look ridiculous by comparing Klay against first PG13, then Dirk. Those guys have proven they can be the alpha and lead their team to win, while Klay has done none of so far in his career.

One more stat for the Klay lovers re: his spacing effect to improve the team's offensive efficiency:

Points per 100 possessions:

Klay on: 117.4

Klay off: 108.1

Before we get too happy...

Klay on + Steph off: 99.7

Klay and Steph both off: 103.2

Before others put words in my mouth, I want to make it clear that I don't hate Klay. I just don't think he is as good as many here think, while he makes the top $ on this team and is maybe at most the #3-4 guy on the team.

The offence revolves around Curry at the moment as it has for most of Curry's career here. When Curry doesn't play surely you have to allow for an adjustment period right? You can't expect immediate results the moment Curry is off. He's only human after all. Outside of that the sample size of the time without Curry is relatively small being that he's been mostly healthy the past few years up until this year included. With all of that factored in I don't think you can fairly judge Klay in this situation.

Even so, all things being equal I think it goes without saying that Klay benefits from Curry's presence just like Curry benefits from having Klay.

But let's get to the issue at hand.
I've gone over this before and I'll go over it again. You constantly complain that he's streaky but name me one high volume 3 point shooter; let's say in the top 20 for 3 point attempts in the NBA who has been less streaky than Klay (aside from Curry). I'll wait.

If you can't find me that 1 guy it makes all of your whingeing completely unjustified.

[cpower]

He's averaged about 25ppg for December and you rip into him at the first chance you can get?

GTFO!

he averaged 16/4 (51%TS) in NBA finals, so Klay does disappear in big games where he was needed the most.

Klay was the only player outside of Curry that was being defended. They were literally leaving Iguodala, Green, and Barnes wide open.

GTFO!

so if a player was defended, he is allowed to be bad? really?

[oaktownwarriors87]

he averaged 16/4 (51%TS) in NBA finals, so Klay does disappear in big games where he was needed the most.

Klay was the only player outside of Curry that was being defended. They were literally leaving Iguodala, Green, and Barnes wide open.

GTFO!

so if a player was defended, he is allowed to be bad? really?

Thompson was averaging 23 PPG in the first three games. It wasn't until Igudoala became a starter that his numbers slumped. When you're an off the ball player and three of your teammates are being left open it can be pretty hard to get a good look.

Lets give Thompson credit for playing defense and helping create open shots for his teammates with his presence alone.

[sikma42]

Klay was the only player outside of Curry that was being defended. They were literally leaving Iguodala, Green, and Barnes wide open.

GTFO!

so if a player was defended, he is allowed to be bad? really?

Thompson was averaging 23 PPG in the first three games. It wasn't until Igudoala became a starter that his numbers slumped. When you're an off the ball player and three of your teammates are being left open it can be pretty hard to get a good look.

Lets give Thompson credit for playing defense and helping create open shots for his teammates with his presence alone.

As to having 3 guys who aren't whooping threats on the floor:


welcome to playing for most other teams in the NBA.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[oaktownwarriors87]

so if a player was defended, he is allowed to be bad? really?

Thompson was averaging 23 PPG in the first three games. It wasn't until Igudoala became a starter that his numbers slumped. When you're an off the ball player and three of your teammates are being left open it can be pretty hard to get a good look.

Lets give Thompson credit for playing defense and helping create open shots for his teammates with his presence alone.

As to having 3 guys who aren't whooping threats on the floor:


welcome to playing for most other teams in the NBA.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

And how often do those three guys average 51 points per games against an elite defense? Yes, most teams don't have that many scoring threats, just like most teams don't have a Curry and Thompson to open up the floor.

[turk3d]

Thompson is what he is. And I don't think I'd trade him for any other 2 guard in the league (despite his flaws). I believe he can only get better over time (young enough where he still hasn't peaked) You won't find a better back court partner to go along with Curry imo. His biggest problem (obviously) is consistency on both the offensive and defensive ends (yes, has been pretty inconsistent defensively this year).

I believe that he will get better in this regard as he gains more experience. In the meantime, we have enough other weapons besides him in order to compensate when he's having an off day (Barnes return should help in that area). He's got to learn to mix up his game (which he was doing last season) when they're clamping down on him defensively but driving and dishing more often. He'll get better over time imo.

Having said that, the fact is that he was starting all star 2 guard last year (well deserved imo) and I thought the best 2-way plaer at the position. However, not this year (part of which was probably his injury early on the season) and not even sure that he should all stars this year and definitely not starter worthy.

[Left*My*Heart]

I don't think Klay is overrated. Only Curry gets as much special attention from teams' game planning schemes on the Warriors. That is huge when it comes to spacing and allowing the rest of the Warriors to have open shots. Butler is the only other two guard who I would trade Klay for today.

[Left*My*Heart]

first, for context, let's acknowledge that we're talking about a future HOF player in Dirk, and one of the best outside shooters of this most recent generation of players. Second, let's agree that comparing Dirk's first five seasons is the proper analysis.

98-99 = 27 of 47 games at 40% or less, 19 of 47 at 30% or less
99-00 = 33 of 82 at 40% or less, 5 of 82 at 30% or less
00-01 = 21 of 82 at 40% or less, 7 of 82 at 30% or less
01-02 = 20 of 76 at 40% or less, 9 of 76 at 30% or less
02-03 = 25 of 77 at 40%, 9 of 77 at 30% or less

Klay

1st year = 36 of 66 at 40% or less, 11 of 66 at 30% or less
2nd year = 39 of 82 at 40% or less, 11 of 82 at 30% or less
3rd year = 31 of 82 at 40% or less, 11 of 82 at 30% or less
4th year - 20 of 77 at 40% or less, 8 of 77 at 30 or less
5th year = 10 of 31 at 40% or less, 3 of 31 at 30 or less

So Klay has been more consistent in three years (assuming klay stays on pace this year), Dirk more consistent in two. But more importantly, Klay was as efficient in his 4th year as any year as Dirk was in any of his first 5 years, and Klay's trajectory is on a path to more consistency. In fact, Dirk was really no more consistent than Klay was last year (or the level Klay is playing this year) until Dirk had 8 years' in the league. Should Klay be striving for the level of consistency Dirk achieved at his peak? Yes, but as I noted, I think he can have Dirk's type of career because he's already on pace to do so---and he's a much better defender than Dirk ever dreamed of being.

So again, nice try. My point in comparing Klay to Dirk is entirely valid. Why you refuse to acknowledge how good Klay is already in his career is just sad. You're missing a great opportunity as a fan to appreciate having two of the best scorers of this generation of players in the same backcourt.

"But but he's making 70 million!"

Dirk has made significantly more money, if you are using that as a reference for your 70 mil?

[likashing]

But let's get to the issue at hand.
I've gone over this before and I'll go over it again. You constantly complain that he's streaky but name me one high volume 3 point shooter; let's say in the top 20 for 3 point attempts in the NBA who has been less streaky than Klay (aside from Curry). I'll wait.

It seems like we are going in circles. What you say exactly reinforces my point. No one has any problem with Klay being a streaky volume 3-pt shooter. Everyone's "whining" has been Klay's incapability in adding another weapon to score other than jacking up 3-pointers.

Players like Butler added a 3-pt shot. He has also taken the lead to be the alpha on his team.

Players like Draymond added a 3-pt shot last season. This season, he further improves his 3-pt % to 40%, and even starts the break after getting a rebound.

Even Barnes has improved his decision making and is less mechanical when he gets the ball at the corner and the open-3 isn't there.

Even Steph made significant improvements despite being MVP last season. Look at the space he now creates off the dribble, and even off a screen without the ball. He has greatly improved on how he moves with and without the ball so his shots are even more lethal with more space.

Even Ezeli's hands are softer and he doesn't TO on a catch much nowadays.

Klay made no improvement this season, and he is actually worse than last season. That's the complain. If you make the top $ on the team and is young, you should be making improvement over the summer.

Again, there is no question that I agree with you that he is a high volume 3-pt shooter that is streaky. However, that's not the complain with me and others.

Do you even read people's posts when they talk about Klay's flaws before replying? Apparently you don't. I feel like talking to Kobe fans that Kobe isn't playing that great this season.

[Mylie10]

Klay has been a pretty good post player, and his post up turn around is pretty good over smaller guys.

And he has put the ball on the floor more than in the past. He's shooting lots of midrange shots that are rimming out around the lane.

He does need to be a bit more consistent. He does need to not take such quick shots all the time. To me, I love his quick release, but don't like the rushed shots, and his quick release has probably lead him to believe that those shots are ok.

The amount of improvement in Draymonds handle proves to me, that putting in the proper work can make a difference. I'd like to see Klay improve on his for sure. It's possible.

Finally I'd like to see Klay pass the ball a bit better. His assist totals are way to low for a guy who has the ball as much as he does. His dad has always claimed that Klay played pg at a young age, but Klay is most often the last one to touch the ball.

When Curry's out, it would be nice for Klay to get his other guys more involved. They tend to stand and watch once the ball gets to Klay. A bit more creation or passing from him, could lead to more open looks for others. Draymond found this after the Dallas game.

[a8bil]

Having said that, the fact is that he was starting all star 2 guard last year (well deserved imo) and I thought the best 2-way plaer at the position. However, not this year (part of which was probably his injury early on the season) and not even sure that he should all stars this year and definitely not starter worthy.

Why do you say that? Klay's numbers are pretty much identical to what he had last year in his all star year, except for PPS, which is a direct result of the fewer shots he's took earlier in the season.

[a8bil]

In the 16 games since Barnes went down, Klay is 136 for 283, or 48.1% shooting overall (17.7 FGA/game) and 63 of 142 from 3 pt. (44.4%). Seems like he's stepped it up and that some of the reason for Klay's PPS being lower is Barnes' higher usage. You can see that Klay has slowly climbed to top 19 in scoring, with about 7 players in immediate reach. I don't see the basis to be criticizing his play.