Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back)

[xdrta+]

Sending out Wiggins salary means the Warriors can take back about $37 million. Simmons and Horford together make almost $57 million. The only way I see this could work is to send Draymond's salary also.

[VCfor3]

My Rockets fan friends in Houston think Morey left in part because he was tired of being told by ownership to sell players cheap every year.

If they are told they MUST be under the tax threshold then the most sellable asset they have is Covington. Harden is off the table, Westbrook would be near impossible to sell, Gordon has 4 years left on his deal, PJ Tucker and Danuel House together make less than Covington.

They need to add 6 players without adding more than $2.5M to their salary, so IF they are told to get under the tax they pretty much have to move out PJ or Covington and my buddy in Houston thinks it's more likely Covington.

That's hecka interesting. Part of it is not having a young future star or stars from the draft like the Miami Heat; It makes me appreciate having Eric Paschall more.

I agree it means the Rockets probably will have to give up a player like Covington to dump salary whom the Warriors could get using their TPE. Teams should be more interested in him than Gordon and his deal. Gordon is likely a Rocket for the rest of his career.

Would the warriors be able to offer TPE and say, a future 1st? A second round pick seems kind of insulting for a guy of covington's caliber.

I'd think Atlanta would outbid GSW if all they offered was a 2nd. Atlanta could do the OKC 1st and not think twice since they supposedly want to try and push for the playoffs this year.

[SF_Warriors]

That's hecka interesting. Part of it is not having a young future star or stars from the draft like the Miami Heat; It makes me appreciate having Eric Paschall more.

I agree it means the Rockets probably will have to give up a player like Covington to dump salary whom the Warriors could get using their TPE. Teams should be more interested in him than Gordon and his deal. Gordon is likely a Rocket for the rest of his career.

Would the warriors be able to offer TPE and say, a future 1st? A second round pick seems kind of insulting for a guy of covington's caliber.

I'd think Atlanta would outbid GSW if all they offered was a 2nd. Atlanta could do the OKC 1st and not think twice since they supposedly want to try and push for the playoffs this year.

Yea that was a trash offer..#48 and poole? Every team in the league could beat that

[ILOVEIT]

This...would do it for me.

Warriors trade out of 2nd with New York and bring back Mitchel Robinson and 8th pick.
Warriors trade 8th pick for Kelly Oubre.
Warriors add Marc Gasol with MLE.
Warriors sign Jeremy Lin as back up point.

Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Green, Mitchel Robinson
Lin, Oubre, Paschall, Looney, Gasol
Chris, Poole

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Watch on YouTube

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[HiRez]

Perhaps that rumored Simmons/Horford trade doesn't work financially, but if just the part about the Warriors being interested in Simmons is true, and/or if Philly is looking to move him, that's big news. I'm assuming if this is true, they must have confidence Giannis won't be gettable and are moving on to plan B, C, etc.

So if Horford doesn't fit, and assuming they won't trade Draymond, what about just Wiggins for Simmons straight up? Then what would it take from the Warriors to close the deal? The #2 obviously, but that doesn't seem like quite enough. On the other hand, the #2 and the MIN 2021 seems like a bit much. Would they go for our 2020 #2 and our (GS) 2021 FRP? Or other FRPs?

Here's one option:

Philly gets
Wiggins
GS 2020 #2
GS 2020 #48
GS 2020 #51
MIN 2021 FRP

GS gets
Simmons
PHI 2020 #20 -> Pokusevski, Bane, S. Bey
PHI 2020 #34 -> Bolmaro, Azubuike
PHI 2020 #36 -> Azubuike, Woodard, Oturu

[SF_Warriors]

Perhaps that rumored Simmons/Horford trade doesn't work financially, but if just the part about the Warriors being interested in Simmons is true, and/or if Philly is looking to move him, that's big news. I'm assuming if this is true, they must have confidence Giannis won't be gettable and are moving on to plan B, C, etc.

So if Horford doesn't fit, and assuming they won't trade Draymond, what about just Wiggins for Simmons straight up? Then what would it take from the Warriors to close the deal? The #2 obviously, but that doesn't seem like quite enough. On the other hand, the #2 and the MIN 2021 seems like a bit much. Would they go for our 2020 #2 and our (GS) 2021 FRP? Or other FRPs?

Here's one option:

Philly gets
Wiggins
GS 2020 #2
GS 2020 #48
GS 2020 #51
MIN 2021 FRP

GS gets
Simmons
PHI 2020 #20 -> Pokusevski, Bane, S. Bey
PHI 2020 #34 -> Bolmaro, Azubuike
PHI 2020 #36 -> Azubuike, Woodard, Oturu

No one's going to give us an all star former #1 pick for wiggins, the #2 and minny's pick. Wiggins first of all is a negative asset. So basically we are offering #2 and minny's pick for simmons which is not going to get it done and on top of that giving philly one of the worse contracts in the league. People are putting wiggins in trades to salary match but they also gotta realize he's essentially an albatross contract.

[ChuckDurn]

Perhaps that rumored Simmons/Horford trade doesn't work financially, but if just the part about the Warriors being interested in Simmons is true, and/or if Philly is looking to move him, that's big news. I'm assuming if this is true, they must have confidence Giannis won't be gettable and are moving on to plan B, C, etc.

So if Horford doesn't fit, and assuming they won't trade Draymond, what about just Wiggins for Simmons straight up? Then what would it take from the Warriors to close the deal? The #2 obviously, but that doesn't seem like quite enough. On the other hand, the #2 and the MIN 2021 seems like a bit much. Would they go for our 2020 #2 and our (GS) 2021 FRP? Or other FRPs?

Here's one option:

Philly gets
Wiggins
GS 2020 #2
GS 2020 #48
GS 2020 #51
MIN 2021 FRP

GS gets
Simmons
PHI 2020 #20 -> Pokusevski, Bane, S. Bey
PHI 2020 #34 -> Bolmaro, Azubuike
PHI 2020 #36 -> Azubuike, Woodard, Oturu

No one's going to give us an all star former #1 pick for wiggins, the #2 and minny's pick. Wiggins first of all is a negative asset. So basically we are offering #2 and minny's pick for simmons which is not going to get it done and on top of that giving philly one of the worse contracts in the league. People are putting wiggins in trades to salary match but they also gotta realize he's essentially an albatross contract.

Yep.

If he plays well this year, Wiggins could possibly gain some value, to where his contract isn’t perceived as terrible. (And as time goes on, his contract gets better, simply because there will be less time remaining on it.)

Right now, his contract is perceived so negatively around the league that it completely offsets the value of the 2020 #2 pick, and probably more.

Trying to get Simmons, Giannis, or any other star using Wiggins as the main salary match in a deal is tough, because you first need to add in significant other value just to offset Wiggins’ contract’s negative value, and then you need to add even more assets to compensate for the star player coming back. And I don’t know that the Warriors can get there - unless the star forces his way out and to the Warriors.

[ILOVEIT]

Perhaps that rumored Simmons/Horford trade doesn't work financially, but if just the part about the Warriors being interested in Simmons is true, and/or if Philly is looking to move him, that's big news. I'm assuming if this is true, they must have confidence Giannis won't be gettable and are moving on to plan B, C, etc.

So if Horford doesn't fit, and assuming they won't trade Draymond, what about just Wiggins for Simmons straight up? Then what would it take from the Warriors to close the deal? The #2 obviously, but that doesn't seem like quite enough. On the other hand, the #2 and the MIN 2021 seems like a bit much. Would they go for our 2020 #2 and our (GS) 2021 FRP? Or other FRPs?

Here's one option:

Philly gets
Wiggins
GS 2020 #2
GS 2020 #48
GS 2020 #51
MIN 2021 FRP

GS gets
Simmons
PHI 2020 #20 -> Pokusevski, Bane, S. Bey
PHI 2020 #34 -> Bolmaro, Azubuike
PHI 2020 #36 -> Azubuike, Woodard, Oturu

No one's going to give us an all star former #1 pick for wiggins, the #2 and minny's pick. Wiggins first of all is a negative asset. So basically we are offering #2 and minny's pick for simmons which is not going to get it done and on top of that giving philly one of the worse contracts in the league. People are putting wiggins in trades to salary match but they also gotta realize he's essentially an albatross contract.

lol....really? Wiggins is a former #1 and his SHOT IS NOT BROKEN and he's not on a team where he doesn't gel with Embiid.

I'm not a huge fan of any player in the NBA that has literally no ability to shoot facing the basket. None.

You are likely right that the league values Simmons more than Wiggins....but IMO Wiggins has more chance of fixing whatever ails him then Simmons.

[SF_Warriors]

Perhaps that rumored Simmons/Horford trade doesn't work financially, but if just the part about the Warriors being interested in Simmons is true, and/or if Philly is looking to move him, that's big news. I'm assuming if this is true, they must have confidence Giannis won't be gettable and are moving on to plan B, C, etc.

So if Horford doesn't fit, and assuming they won't trade Draymond, what about just Wiggins for Simmons straight up? Then what would it take from the Warriors to close the deal? The #2 obviously, but that doesn't seem like quite enough. On the other hand, the #2 and the MIN 2021 seems like a bit much. Would they go for our 2020 #2 and our (GS) 2021 FRP? Or other FRPs?

Here's one option:

Philly gets
Wiggins
GS 2020 #2
GS 2020 #48
GS 2020 #51
MIN 2021 FRP

GS gets
Simmons
PHI 2020 #20 -> Pokusevski, Bane, S. Bey
PHI 2020 #34 -> Bolmaro, Azubuike
PHI 2020 #36 -> Azubuike, Woodard, Oturu

No one's going to give us an all star former #1 pick for wiggins, the #2 and minny's pick. Wiggins first of all is a negative asset. So basically we are offering #2 and minny's pick for simmons which is not going to get it done and on top of that giving philly one of the worse contracts in the league. People are putting wiggins in trades to salary match but they also gotta realize he's essentially an albatross contract.

lol....really? Wiggins is a former #1 and his SHOT IS NOT BROKEN and he's not on a team where he doesn't gel with Embiid.

I'm not a huge fan of any player in the NBA that has literally no ability to shoot facing the basket. None.

You are likely right that the league values Simmons more than Wiggins....but IMO Wiggins has more chance of fixing whatever ails him then Simmons.

Simmons as is provides all star impact. Wiggins as is provides harrison barnes impact at 30+ million a year. It'd be like me saying in 2015 that there's a chance harrison barnes is a better player than draymond green because of his "tools"..basically you are in love with the idea of wiggins being able to live up to his draft status versus reality. No offense but you are being a massive homer right now. As for wiggin's shot, its not broken, but its not above average either.

[HiRez]

Simmons as is provides all star impact. Wiggins as is provides harrison barnes impact at 30+ million a year. It'd be like me saying in 2015 that there's a chance harrison barnes is a better player than draymond green because of his "tools"..basically you are in love with the idea of wiggins being able to live up to his draft status versus what is realty.

Right...hence adding one #2 pick and another lottery pick in a strong draft...

Would Philly go for it? I have no idea, but I don't think it's right to assume it's so ridiculous no team would consider it. We don't know what Philly's goals are, how highly they value Simmons, or draft picks. Teams make moves that many consider kooky all the time.

[SF_Warriors]

Simmons as is provides all star impact. Wiggins as is provides harrison barnes impact at 30+ million a year. It'd be like me saying in 2015 that there's a chance harrison barnes is a better player than draymond green because of his "tools"..basically you are in love with the idea of wiggins being able to live up to his draft status versus what is realty.

Right...hence adding one #2 pick and another lottery pick in a strong draft...

Would Philly go for it? I have no idea, but I don't think it's right to assume it's so ridiculous no team would consider it. We don't know what Philly's goals are, how highly they value Simmons, or draft picks. Teams make moves that many consider kooky all the time.

That is my opinion regarding philly and what they would take for Simmons. Your trade package is worthy of debate..However saying wiggins was a #1 pick and therefore adds value to philly in a trade involving simmons is a terrible take. Simmons was a #1 pick and all star caliber player. Him and wiggins being selected at #1 are the only thing comparable about their games and impact.

Would philly give up simmons for expirings, #2 in a crap shoot draft, and a top 4 protected next year most likely lotto pick for next year? Not sure, somewhat doubtful..Would they do it and have horford, harris, and wiggin's contract on the books..I don't think so. Part of the allure of the #2 this year is the possibility of drafting wiseman, who philly has absolutely no use for. The #2 in this draft does not have a high value around the league, you should know that.

[ChuckDurn]

Perhaps that rumored Simmons/Horford trade doesn't work financially, but if just the part about the Warriors being interested in Simmons is true, and/or if Philly is looking to move him, that's big news. I'm assuming if this is true, they must have confidence Giannis won't be gettable and are moving on to plan B, C, etc.

So if Horford doesn't fit, and assuming they won't trade Draymond, what about just Wiggins for Simmons straight up? Then what would it take from the Warriors to close the deal? The #2 obviously, but that doesn't seem like quite enough. On the other hand, the #2 and the MIN 2021 seems like a bit much. Would they go for our 2020 #2 and our (GS) 2021 FRP? Or other FRPs?

Here's one option:

Philly gets
Wiggins
GS 2020 #2
GS 2020 #48
GS 2020 #51
MIN 2021 FRP

GS gets
Simmons
PHI 2020 #20 -> Pokusevski, Bane, S. Bey
PHI 2020 #34 -> Bolmaro, Azubuike
PHI 2020 #36 -> Azubuike, Woodard, Oturu

No one's going to give us an all star former #1 pick for wiggins, the #2 and minny's pick. Wiggins first of all is a negative asset. So basically we are offering #2 and minny's pick for simmons which is not going to get it done and on top of that giving philly one of the worse contracts in the league. People are putting wiggins in trades to salary match but they also gotta realize he's essentially an albatross contract.

lol....really? Wiggins is a former #1 and his SHOT IS NOT BROKEN and he's not on a team where he doesn't gel with Embiid.

I'm not a huge fan of any player in the NBA that has literally no ability to shoot facing the basket. None.

You are likely right that the league values Simmons more than Wiggins....but IMO Wiggins has more chance of fixing whatever ails him then Simmons.

The perceptions of Simmons and Wiggins are rightfully (at this point) opposite, though Wiggins could take steps this year to rehabilitate his image, which could move him more toward Simmons' value.

Simmons:
- Defensive Player of the Year candidate, who can guard 1-5. An absolute defensive game-changer.
- Positive offensive player, great creator and vision with ball in his hands, is a triple-double waiting to happen every game. Only offensive flaw (which is HUGE) is lack of outside shooting (both willingness, and efficiency when he does take them).

Wiggins:
- Very inconsistent defensively, performance so far has been below average. Has struggled to consistently demonstrate interest / engagement in defense.
- Inefficient offensively; scores mainly by volume rather than efficiency. Average outside shooter, doesn't create for others. Has had questionable shot selection at times (much of offense has come from isolation, and he does force shots).

Wiggins has the physical ability to be outstanding - but so far he hasn't gotten there. The hope is that within the Warriors' offensive and defensive scheme, he can better realize his potential. If he stays engaged on defense, he could become very positive defensively with his length and quickness. Similarly, on offense, if he plays within the system and takes good shots, he should get tons of wide-open 3's and lots of points off slashes to the hoop, and won't have to create much for himself. He could - realistically - average 20 ppg, shooting 45%+ overall, 37%+ on 3's, and getting to the line 5 times/game. If he did that, he'd vault himself in peoples' perception - and suddenly his huge contract wouldn't be viewed as terribly.

But he has to prove it. Simmons is elite on both ends of the floor, with one glaring limitation. Wiggins is - at best - average on both ends of the floor (as starting players go), with a potential to get much better. But nobody wants to pay much in trading for that potential, until they see some realization of it.

[SF_Warriors]

No one's going to give us an all star former #1 pick for wiggins, the #2 and minny's pick. Wiggins first of all is a negative asset. So basically we are offering #2 and minny's pick for simmons which is not going to get it done and on top of that giving philly one of the worse contracts in the league. People are putting wiggins in trades to salary match but they also gotta realize he's essentially an albatross contract.

lol....really? Wiggins is a former #1 and his SHOT IS NOT BROKEN and he's not on a team where he doesn't gel with Embiid.

I'm not a huge fan of any player in the NBA that has literally no ability to shoot facing the basket. None.

You are likely right that the league values Simmons more than Wiggins....but IMO Wiggins has more chance of fixing whatever ails him then Simmons.

The perceptions of Simmons and Wiggins are rightfully (at this point) opposite, though Wiggins could take steps this year to rehabilitate his image, which could move him more toward Simmons' value.

Simmons:
- Defensive Player of the Year candidate, who can guard 1-5. An absolute defensive game-changer.
- Positive offensive player, great creator and vision with ball in his hands, is a triple-double waiting to happen every game. Only offensive flaw (which is HUGE) is lack of outside shooting (both willingness, and efficiency when he does take them).

Wiggins:
- Very inconsistent defensively, performance so far has been below average. Has struggled to consistently demonstrate interest / engagement in defense.
- Inefficient offensively; scores mainly by volume rather than efficiency. Average outside shooter, doesn't create for others. Has had questionable shot selection at times (much of offense has come from isolation, and he does force shots).

Wiggins has the physical ability to be outstanding - but so far he hasn't gotten there. The hope is that within the Warriors' offensive and defensive scheme, he can better realize his potential. If he stays engaged on defense, he could become very positive defensively with his length and quickness. Similarly, on offense, if he plays within the system and takes good shots, he should get tons of wide-open 3's and lots of points off slashes to the hoop, and won't have to create much for himself. He could - realistically - average 20 ppg, shooting 45%+ overall, 37%+ on 3's, and getting to the line 5 times/game. If he did that, he'd vault himself in peoples' perception - and suddenly his huge contract wouldn't be viewed as terribly.

But he has to prove it. Simmons is elite on both ends of the floor, with one glaring limitation. Wiggins is - at best - average on both ends of the floor (as starting players go), with a potential to get much better. But nobody wants to pay much in trading for that potential, until they see some realization of it.

Exactly, ben does things at a very high level, and at a size where doing those things at that level would be very rare, making him valuable on both ends. Wiggins doesnt do anything at a high level on either end of the floor. He has some potential as a defender and has improved to be a solid playmaker for his position, but he still does not do either at the level of simmons. I also highly doubt he can score as efficiently as ben who is giving around 60% TS. Wiggins shot 7 more shots than ben per game last season to average 6 more points.

As for wiggin's shot, its not broken but its not above league average for a wing either..

[Scoots1994]

By the way I’m not proposing anything. Covington won’t be dealt. If he is, I’ll be very surprised.

I agree, but when idiots are owners anything can happen.

[Scoots1994]

My Rockets fan friends in Houston think Morey left in part because he was tired of being told by ownership to sell players cheap every year.

If they are told they MUST be under the tax threshold then the most sellable asset they have is Covington. Harden is off the table, Westbrook would be near impossible to sell, Gordon has 4 years left on his deal, PJ Tucker and Danuel House together make less than Covington.

They need to add 6 players without adding more than $2.5M to their salary, so IF they are told to get under the tax they pretty much have to move out PJ or Covington and my buddy in Houston thinks it's more likely Covington.

That's hecka interesting. Part of it is not having a young future star or stars from the draft like the Miami Heat; It makes me appreciate having Eric Paschall more.

I agree it means the Rockets probably will have to give up a player like Covington to dump salary whom the Warriors could get using their TPE. Teams should be more interested in him than Gordon and his deal. Gordon is likely a Rocket for the rest of his career.

Would the warriors be able to offer TPE and say, a future 1st? A second round pick seems kind of insulting for a guy of covington's caliber.

The TPE cannot be traded. It's just a salary slot exemption for traded players. The Warriors could offer a future 1st for Covington only because they have the TPE and the Rockets would get their own TPE for Covington's contract total while the Warriors would still have the remaining amount of their TPE after Covington's contract was subtracted.

[Scoots1994]

Well, first thing Houston will do is try and find a team willing to take on Gordon. If that fails, maybe they look at Covington. I thought PJ was a free agent. If not he could fit into our TPE.

PJ's got one more year on his contract at under $8M. I wonder if the Warriors would offer Paschall for PJ? It would be a short term investment but they play the same position/style so maybe.

[vvoland]

lol....really? Wiggins is a former #1 and his SHOT IS NOT BROKEN and he's not on a team where he doesn't gel with Embiid.

I'm not a huge fan of any player in the NBA that has literally no ability to shoot facing the basket. None.

You are likely right that the league values Simmons more than Wiggins....but IMO Wiggins has more chance of fixing whatever ails him then Simmons.

The perceptions of Simmons and Wiggins are rightfully (at this point) opposite, though Wiggins could take steps this year to rehabilitate his image, which could move him more toward Simmons' value.

Simmons:
- Defensive Player of the Year candidate, who can guard 1-5. An absolute defensive game-changer.
- Positive offensive player, great creator and vision with ball in his hands, is a triple-double waiting to happen every game. Only offensive flaw (which is HUGE) is lack of outside shooting (both willingness, and efficiency when he does take them).

Wiggins:
- Very inconsistent defensively, performance so far has been below average. Has struggled to consistently demonstrate interest / engagement in defense.
- Inefficient offensively; scores mainly by volume rather than efficiency. Average outside shooter, doesn't create for others. Has had questionable shot selection at times (much of offense has come from isolation, and he does force shots).

Wiggins has the physical ability to be outstanding - but so far he hasn't gotten there. The hope is that within the Warriors' offensive and defensive scheme, he can better realize his potential. If he stays engaged on defense, he could become very positive defensively with his length and quickness. Similarly, on offense, if he plays within the system and takes good shots, he should get tons of wide-open 3's and lots of points off slashes to the hoop, and won't have to create much for himself. He could - realistically - average 20 ppg, shooting 45%+ overall, 37%+ on 3's, and getting to the line 5 times/game. If he did that, he'd vault himself in peoples' perception - and suddenly his huge contract wouldn't be viewed as terribly.

But he has to prove it. Simmons is elite on both ends of the floor, with one glaring limitation. Wiggins is - at best - average on both ends of the floor (as starting players go), with a potential to get much better. But nobody wants to pay much in trading for that potential, until they see some realization of it.

Exactly, ben does things at a very high level, and at a size where doing those things at that level would be very rare, making him valuable on both ends. Wiggins doesnt do anything at a high level on either end of the floor. He has some potential as a defender and has improved to be a solid playmaker for his position, but he still does not do either at the level of simmons. I also highly doubt he can score as efficiently as ben who is giving around 60% TS. Wiggins shot 7 more shots than ben per game last season to average 6 more points.

As for wiggin's shot, its not broken but its not above league average for a wing either..

The problem with Simmons (a superior players to wiggins, no doubt) is that his one flaw is crippling in high leverage situations. He cannot play with another non-shooter or even another real big man unless he start shooting even mid range jumpers. And while he can get to the rim at will, his struggles at the line also make it a less than critical skill when it's nut-crunching time. It's why he's essentially draymond when it's crunchtime or the playoffs - a defensive star that is a dunker/screener in the half court offense.

He's lebron on the break and markelle fultz in the half-court.

[jason bourne]

My Rockets fan friends in Houston think Morey left in part because he was tired of being told by ownership to sell players cheap every year.

If they are told they MUST be under the tax threshold then the most sellable asset they have is Covington. Harden is off the table, Westbrook would be near impossible to sell, Gordon has 4 years left on his deal, PJ Tucker and Danuel House together make less than Covington.

They need to add 6 players without adding more than $2.5M to their salary, so IF they are told to get under the tax they pretty much have to move out PJ or Covington and my buddy in Houston thinks it's more likely Covington.

That's hecka interesting. Part of it is not having a young future star or stars from the draft like the Miami Heat; It makes me appreciate having Eric Paschall more.

I agree it means the Rockets probably will have to give up a player like Covington to dump salary whom the Warriors could get using their TPE. Teams should be more interested in him than Gordon and his deal. Gordon is likely a Rocket for the rest of his career.

Would the warriors be able to offer TPE and say, a future 1st? A second round pick seems kind of insulting for a guy of covington's caliber.

The Warriors could do that, but first they want to see what they can get in a trade down for the #2 pick and get another pick in return. It sounds like Deni Avdija talk is heating up again.

The perfect guy for the Warriors, besides a starting C, seems to be Danilo Gallinari but he'll be too expensive. The guy closest to Gallinari is Avdija in the draft.

[SF_Warriors]

The perceptions of Simmons and Wiggins are rightfully (at this point) opposite, though Wiggins could take steps this year to rehabilitate his image, which could move him more toward Simmons' value.

Simmons:
- Defensive Player of the Year candidate, who can guard 1-5. An absolute defensive game-changer.
- Positive offensive player, great creator and vision with ball in his hands, is a triple-double waiting to happen every game. Only offensive flaw (which is HUGE) is lack of outside shooting (both willingness, and efficiency when he does take them).

Wiggins:
- Very inconsistent defensively, performance so far has been below average. Has struggled to consistently demonstrate interest / engagement in defense.
- Inefficient offensively; scores mainly by volume rather than efficiency. Average outside shooter, doesn't create for others. Has had questionable shot selection at times (much of offense has come from isolation, and he does force shots).

Wiggins has the physical ability to be outstanding - but so far he hasn't gotten there. The hope is that within the Warriors' offensive and defensive scheme, he can better realize his potential. If he stays engaged on defense, he could become very positive defensively with his length and quickness. Similarly, on offense, if he plays within the system and takes good shots, he should get tons of wide-open 3's and lots of points off slashes to the hoop, and won't have to create much for himself. He could - realistically - average 20 ppg, shooting 45%+ overall, 37%+ on 3's, and getting to the line 5 times/game. If he did that, he'd vault himself in peoples' perception - and suddenly his huge contract wouldn't be viewed as terribly.

But he has to prove it. Simmons is elite on both ends of the floor, with one glaring limitation. Wiggins is - at best - average on both ends of the floor (as starting players go), with a potential to get much better. But nobody wants to pay much in trading for that potential, until they see some realization of it.

Exactly, ben does things at a very high level, and at a size where doing those things at that level would be very rare, making him valuable on both ends. Wiggins doesnt do anything at a high level on either end of the floor. He has some potential as a defender and has improved to be a solid playmaker for his position, but he still does not do either at the level of simmons. I also highly doubt he can score as efficiently as ben who is giving around 60% TS. Wiggins shot 7 more shots than ben per game last season to average 6 more points.

As for wiggin's shot, its not broken but its not above league average for a wing either..

The problem with Simmons (a superior players to wiggins, no doubt) is that his one flaw is crippling in high leverage situations. He cannot play with another non-shooter or even another real big man unless he start shooting even mid range jumpers. And while he can get to the rim at will, his struggles at the line also make it a less than critical skill when it's nut-crunching time. It's why he's essentially draymond when it's crunchtime or the playoffs - a defensive star that is a dunker/screener in the half court offense.

He's lebron on the break and markelle fultz in the half-court.

I'm not saying simmons is without fault. The lack of a jumper is a very glaring weakness, but if we are comparing him to wiggins, I would take simmons without hesitation. I would rather have a guy who does things at a near elite level with one glaring weakness, than have one guy who is average at everything with no clear elite strengths. You can make up for one player's lack of jumpshooting if he can do other things at a high level. Just look at draymond for example.. and simmons is a better player offensively than him easily. It's not like wiggins jumpshooting is so great that it would make up for anything ben brings to the table. Now if wiggins could shoot like 38% from three and 82% from FT then maybe we can discuss him being a better fit than simmons on some teams, but he hasnt and most likely wont get to that level. Hell, HB shoots those percentages and no one in their right mind would take him over BS. There is no team out there that would take Wiggins over ben, even with a lotto pick attached.

Now, if we are talking about ben being an elite player capable of carrying contending teams, he is obviously not that guy. Regardless, he is an impact player in the nba albeit not elite like I mentioned.

And yea, if fultz was 6'9 or 6'10 then his comparison to simmons would be valid.

[SF_Warriors]

That's hecka interesting. Part of it is not having a young future star or stars from the draft like the Miami Heat; It makes me appreciate having Eric Paschall more.

I agree it means the Rockets probably will have to give up a player like Covington to dump salary whom the Warriors could get using their TPE. Teams should be more interested in him than Gordon and his deal. Gordon is likely a Rocket for the rest of his career.

Would the warriors be able to offer TPE and say, a future 1st? A second round pick seems kind of insulting for a guy of covington's caliber.

The TPE cannot be traded. It's just a salary slot exemption for traded players. The Warriors could offer a future 1st for Covington only because they have the TPE and the Rockets would get their own TPE for Covington's contract total while the Warriors would still have the remaining amount of their TPE after Covington's contract was subtracted.

Ah, I see. If I were the warriors I wouldnt hesitate to throw a 1st out there for Cov.