2020 Draft Thread, Part 2

[cdubbz]

20 games into careers and there's already W's and L's being thrown around?

The internet is dumb

I mean ....I'm confident in giving the Knicks an L for drafting Obi Toppin. I just don't get that one - his flaws were widely known.

[Ilovethebay]

Exactly. Rather take a chance on an elite skill guy rather than someone who “looks” the part. 80% of the regular posters on this site have to take the L on this one, at least up to this point. Still have high hopes for Wiseman because I love his mental makeup.

That's stupid, nobody's taking an "L" on Wiseman until he proves he's not a franchise center. You're going to be waiting a while for your "L"s.

Touched a nerve? See the bold part. Up to this point. No need to get personal. Watch it.

I certainly appreciate how the moderators keep watch of what’s going on here but I’m a little confused. I responded to a post that was a personal response to me. Never did I say that his response was “stupid” but that he should own up to what him and others think. I don’t see how my response was out of line with the way I was responded to. I was simply replying in the same tone that was directed at me. Be that as it may, I will tone my future responses down a bit. And thanks to all the hard work of all the moderators.

[tal57]

You don't remember Rubio or Simmons eh? The shot wasn't busted and Lonzo's shot has improved a lot. Both those things were fairly obvious to anyone paying attention. Bottom line LaMelo is a basketball genius with great size for the position.

What do you do with Curry if you draft LaMelo? You can say they can play together. OK, what do you do next year with Klay back? Put him on the bench? And what do you do at C? They got great, unexpected opportunity to draft very promising C. I don't doubt that whatsoever, no matter what Ball does. I expect Curry to be 7-12 from 3 on the game to game basis. Wake me up when we have nearly the same expectations from Ball.

These questions are so dumb. The dude could be an All-Star *this* season at age 19. He's ridiculously talented. You don't worry about fit with a talent like that, and it wouldn't even be an issue. The best lineups would have Steph/Melo/Klay/Wiggins/Draymond anyway. Use your imagination for like a few seconds to figure it out.

Fortunately, I am not an ignoramus to live or deal in imaginations.

[GQ Hot Dog]

That's stupid, nobody's taking an "L" on Wiseman until he proves he's not a franchise center. You're going to be waiting a while for your "L"s.

Touched a nerve? See the bold part. Up to this point. No need to get personal. Watch it.

I certainly appreciate how the moderators keep watch of what’s going on here but I’m a little confused. I responded to a post that was a personal response to me. Never did I say that his response was “stupid” but that he should own up to what him and others think. I don’t see how my response was out of line with the way I was responded to. I was simply replying in the same tone that was directed at me. Be that as it may, I will tone my future responses down a bit. And thanks to all the hard work of all the moderators.

I appreciate you committing to keeping it cordial going forward.

As far as you not seeing how your response was out of line, that you edited out nearly the entirety of the post makes it tough to discuss further and that's fine with me.

As far as my tone, what I suggested was "stupid" is concluding that Melo would have been a better pick than Wiseman not even halfway through their rookie season.

Wiseman has the higher ceiling considering his talents as a 7fter but it shouldn't surprise anyone that a center straight out of high school is going to be behind the development curve of a point guard who's been playing professionally for a few years now.

That's why I don't see how anybody deserves an L in thinking Wiseman is the better pick than Melo, even at this point.

[Ilovethebay]

Touched a nerve? See the bold part. Up to this point. No need to get personal. Watch it.

I certainly appreciate how the moderators keep watch of what’s going on here but I’m a little confused. I responded to a post that was a personal response to me. Never did I say that his response was “stupid” but that he should own up to what him and others think. I don’t see how my response was out of line with the way I was responded to. I was simply replying in the same tone that was directed at me. Be that as it may, I will tone my future responses down a bit. And thanks to all the hard work of all the moderators.

I appreciate you committing to keeping it cordial going forward.

As far as you not seeing how your response was out of line, that you edited out nearly the entirety of the post makes it tough to discuss further and that's fine with me.

As far as my tone, what I suggested was "stupid" is concluding that Melo would have been a better pick than Wiseman not even halfway through their rookie season.

Wiseman has the higher ceiling considering his talents as a 7fter but it shouldn't surprise anyone that a center straight out of high school is going to be behind the development curve of a point guard who's been playing professionally for a few years now.

That's why I don't see how anybody deserves an L in thinking Wiseman is the better pick than Melo, even at this point.

Fair points, all of them. The one thing I took issue with (not from you, I honestly can remember who all of the Lamelo haters were) was all the anti Lamelo takes and the belittling of anyone who even thought he had a decent shot at being good. It was over the top imo. Two 19 yo kids were already judged as to who would be great and who would suck before even lacing them up. Now all of a sudden one is playing better than the other and here comes the “we are only 20 games in “ crowd. Like the 19 yo they liked need needs time to show what he is going to be but the other kid is just having a “good start”. Both of these kids are going to get better.

I also don’t think the 7fter has the higher ceiling. IMO the game now is dominated by wing players and point guards. They even changed the way Allstars are chosen so that a more talented smaller player wouldn’t get overlooked for a less talented big guy.
Lastly, I didn’t edit my post (Although I shouldn’t have wrote what I did in the first place) This place can be unforgiving when when don’t subscribe to the opinion of the majority. It felt good to give it back a bit.

[Old_Blue]

Pre-draft, Bogut was a big proponent of drafting LaMelo. He'd seem him up close in Australia and said he was the real deal. The youngest player in NBA history with a triple double. The youngest player in NBA history with seven three pointers in a game. Whew. Why didn't we listen to Andrew?

[KevinMcreynolds]

I'm not going to get up in arms about not taking him. When you watch those NBL games, his shot looked completely busted like his brothers, his defense was non-existent, and he was playing pick n roll against some of the slowest bigs I've ever seen and still wasn't getting to the hoop and finishing well. "But his elite passing!" I can't remember the last time someone was drafted in the top 5 for their passing. It literally might be Jason Kidd 27 effing years ago.

You don't remember Rubio or Simmons eh? The shot wasn't busted and Lonzo's shot has improved a lot. Both those things were fairly obvious to anyone paying attention. Bottom line LaMelo is a basketball genius with great size for the position.

3 guys in 27 years! And only two of them are good

[cdubbz]

I'm not going to get up in arms about not taking him. When you watch those NBL games, his shot looked completely busted like his brothers, his defense was non-existent, and he was playing pick n roll against some of the slowest bigs I've ever seen and still wasn't getting to the hoop and finishing well. "But his elite passing!" I can't remember the last time someone was drafted in the top 5 for their passing. It literally might be Jason Kidd 27 effing years ago.

You don't remember Rubio or Simmons eh? The shot wasn't busted and Lonzo's shot has improved a lot. Both those things were fairly obvious to anyone paying attention. Bottom line LaMelo is a basketball genius with great size for the position.

3 guys in 27 years! And only two of them are good

not sure how previous drafts correlate to this one particularly. Just because preiovus top picks arent elite passers means we shouldn't rest an elite passers? Idk. odd

[KevinMcreynolds]

I was saying his NBL tape wasn’t good and the only thing he excelled at was his passing, so drafting someone in the top 5 for their elite passing skill isn’t exactly a common thing. I heard several pre-draft interviews with coaches and scouts that said his shooting mechanics were poor and wildly inconsistent. in today’s game it’s got to be hard to pull the trigger on a ball dominant guard you think may be a bad shooter, so I’m not going get upset they didn’t take him especially when Wiseman is a beast.

[EvanZ]

I was saying his NBL tape wasn’t good and the only thing he excelled at was his passing, so drafting someone in the top 5 for their elite passing skill isn’t exactly a common thing. I heard several pre-draft interviews with coaches and scouts that said his shooting mechanics were poor and wildly inconsistent. in today’s game it’s got to be hard to pull the trigger on a ball dominant guard you think may be a bad shooter, so I’m not going get upset they didn’t take him especially when Wiseman is a beast.

Did you watch him though or did you just go by what you heard about him?

Also "Wiseman is a beast" in what sense? His resume was even more shallow than LaMelo. He's just a big guy that can run.

[Old_Blue]

I was saying his NBL tape wasn’t good and the only thing he excelled at was his passing, so drafting someone in the top 5 for their elite passing skill isn’t exactly a common thing.

The only problem with this reasoning is that the Warriors, for as long as they have Curry and Klay, are a team that relies heavily on passing and ball movement. As such, you would think the Warriors would prize any player who can dish the ball like LaMelo. For this reason, it's got to be particularly hard for the Warriors brass to watch what LaMelo is doing now, grieving over what could have been.

[Mylie10]

I certainly appreciate how the moderators keep watch of what’s going on here but I’m a little confused. I responded to a post that was a personal response to me. Never did I say that his response was “stupid” but that he should own up to what him and others think. I don’t see how my response was out of line with the way I was responded to. I was simply replying in the same tone that was directed at me. Be that as it may, I will tone my future responses down a bit. And thanks to all the hard work of all the moderators.

I appreciate you committing to keeping it cordial going forward.

As far as you not seeing how your response was out of line, that you edited out nearly the entirety of the post makes it tough to discuss further and that's fine with me.

As far as my tone, what I suggested was "stupid" is concluding that Melo would have been a better pick than Wiseman not even halfway through their rookie season.

Wiseman has the higher ceiling considering his talents as a 7fter but it shouldn't surprise anyone that a center straight out of high school is going to be behind the development curve of a point guard who's been playing professionally for a few years now.

That's why I don't see how anybody deserves an L in thinking Wiseman is the better pick than Melo, even at this point.

Fair points, all of them. The one thing I took issue with (not from you, I honestly can remember who all of the Lamelo haters were) was all the anti Lamelo takes and the belittling of anyone who even thought he had a decent shot at being good. It was over the top imo. Two 19 yo kids were already judged as to who would be great and who would suck before even lacing them up. Now all of a sudden one is playing better than the other and here comes the “we are only 20 games in “ crowd. Like the 19 yo they liked need needs time to show what he is going to be but the other kid is just having a “good start”. Both of these kids are going to get better.

I also don’t think the 7fter has the higher ceiling. IMO the game now is dominated by wing players and point guards. They even changed the way Allstars are chosen so that a more talented smaller player wouldn’t get overlooked for a less talented big guy.
Lastly, I didn’t edit my post (Although I shouldn’t have wrote what I did in the first place) This place can be unforgiving when when don’t subscribe to the opinion of the majority. It felt good to give it back a bit.

You can like Ball better and project him to be better....All good for anybody who thinks that.

But you said you don't think the 7'1" player whoisnt a skinny twig like Bol Bol, but has shown he has a good jumper, some guard skills, has incredible lenght, a great athlete, and doesn't have the benefit of multiple years in the pro leagues, wouldn't have a higher ceiling?

Are you serious?

[Mylie10]

I was saying his NBL tape wasn’t good and the only thing he excelled at was his passing, so drafting someone in the top 5 for their elite passing skill isn’t exactly a common thing. I heard several pre-draft interviews with coaches and scouts that said his shooting mechanics were poor and wildly inconsistent. in today’s game it’s got to be hard to pull the trigger on a ball dominant guard you think may be a bad shooter, so I’m not going get upset they didn’t take him especially when Wiseman is a beast.

Did you watch him though or did you just go by what you heard about him?

Also "Wiseman is a beast" in what sense? His resume was even more shallow than LaMelo. He's just a big guy that can run.

I did watch Lameo's games and he is not a good defender. Hes just not. He will gamble for steals and is a really good instinctive rebounder, but straight up defense? no

Elite passer though, and hes a decent shooter at this point, but you can't really say hes going to be a GOOD shooter with that terrible form.

And I'd say that as smart as you are, for you to say all Wiseman is is a big guy that can jump is asinine.

[Mylie10]

When Chad Ford outsmarts your FO it's bad.

Read on Twitter

Lol at taking victory laps right now

[Ilovethebay]

I appreciate you committing to keeping it cordial going forward.

As far as you not seeing how your response was out of line, that you edited out nearly the entirety of the post makes it tough to discuss further and that's fine with me.

As far as my tone, what I suggested was "stupid" is concluding that Melo would have been a better pick than Wiseman not even halfway through their rookie season.

Wiseman has the higher ceiling considering his talents as a 7fter but it shouldn't surprise anyone that a center straight out of high school is going to be behind the development curve of a point guard who's been playing professionally for a few years now.

That's why I don't see how anybody deserves an L in thinking Wiseman is the better pick than Melo, even at this point.

Fair points, all of them. The one thing I took issue with (not from you, I honestly can remember who all of the Lamelo haters were) was all the anti Lamelo takes and the belittling of anyone who even thought he had a decent shot at being good. It was over the top imo. Two 19 yo kids were already judged as to who would be great and who would suck before even lacing them up. Now all of a sudden one is playing better than the other and here comes the “we are only 20 games in “ crowd. Like the 19 yo they liked need needs time to show what he is going to be but the other kid is just having a “good start”. Both of these kids are going to get better.

I also don’t think the 7fter has the higher ceiling. IMO the game now is dominated by wing players and point guards. They even changed the way Allstars are chosen so that a more talented smaller player wouldn’t get overlooked for a less talented big guy.
Lastly, I didn’t edit my post (Although I shouldn’t have wrote what I did in the first place) This place can be unforgiving when when don’t subscribe to the opinion of the majority. It felt good to give it back a bit.

You can like Ball better and project him to be better....All good for anybody who thinks that.

But you said you don't think the 7'1" player whoisnt a skinny twig like Bol Bol, but has shown he has a good jumper, some guard skills, has incredible lenght, a great athlete, and doesn't have the benefit of multiple years in the pro leagues, wouldn't have a higher ceiling?

Are you serious?

Yep. As serious as all the other paid scouts who influenced the way I thought about the guy. I guess we watched one guy show an elite skill against higher competition. The other “Tarzan looking guy” while looking the part and showing some good skills in “high school” is no doubt a good choice as well but “that” shouldn’t be the overriding factor in who someone has as the higher ceiling.
This line of thinking might not always work but I always tend to gravitate toward whose who show what they can do vs higher competition. Call it the Doncic effect. IIRC, a few people on this board were bothered about Wiseman’s lack of experience.

Lastly, wouldn’t you agree that all things being equal, the guy with the most multi positional value would have the higher ceiling ? If so, add that to the fact that one guy is an offensive savant and the other guy is working on improving his hands ? Let that sink in, he is blessed with insane reach but it gets somewhat negated by his below average hands. If he turns the corner and balls out, I’ll push my Wiggin’s crow aside and start working on Wiseman’s

[Old_Blue]

This line of thinking might not always work but I always tend to gravitate toward whose who show what they can do vs higher competition. Call it the Doncic effect. IIRC, a few people on this board were bothered about Wiseman’s lack of experience.

Lastly, wouldn’t you agree that all things being equal, the guy with the most multi positional value would have the higher ceiling ? If so, add that to the fact that one guy is an offensive savant and the other guy is working on improving his hands ? Let that sink in, he is blessed with insane reach but it gets somewhat negated by his below average hands.

Bingo. Along with the fact that Wiseman doesn't seem to have a clue how to set a proper screen, his bad hands are what's starting to worry me.

[KevinMcreynolds]

I was saying his NBL tape wasn’t good and the only thing he excelled at was his passing, so drafting someone in the top 5 for their elite passing skill isn’t exactly a common thing. I heard several pre-draft interviews with coaches and scouts that said his shooting mechanics were poor and wildly inconsistent. in today’s game it’s got to be hard to pull the trigger on a ball dominant guard you think may be a bad shooter, so I’m not going get upset they didn’t take him especially when Wiseman is a beast.

Did you watch him though or did you just go by what you heard about him?

Also "Wiseman is a beast" in what sense? His resume was even more shallow than LaMelo. He's just a big guy that can run.

I watched a lot of his NBL footage.

A "big guy that can run" is a terrible take. How many 19 year old 7'1" centers come into the league and have as confident of a jumpshot beyond 20 ft as him? He basically has a Sam Perkins outside shot with 10x the athleticism. He also has an elite spin move in the lane (he just needs to learn to spin the other way now) and has a big time show n go. He's a lot further along than a 19 year old with no college, training camp, and preseason should be, and the best part is I've already noticed a big improvement with his hands from game 1 to game 20. He just has zero clue how to play defense and needs to get stronger, which is the case for like 95% of the bigs that come into the league.

[KevinMcreynolds]

When Chad Ford outsmarts your FO it's bad.

Read on Twitter

Lol at taking victory laps right now

What makes it even lamer is basically every clickbait writer like Ford comes out with a bunch of articles like that just so later on they can quote themselves and go "hurrrr durrrr see I was right!" without every mention the other 79732973204820432 times they got it wrong.

[EvanZ]

I was saying his NBL tape wasn’t good and the only thing he excelled at was his passing, so drafting someone in the top 5 for their elite passing skill isn’t exactly a common thing. I heard several pre-draft interviews with coaches and scouts that said his shooting mechanics were poor and wildly inconsistent. in today’s game it’s got to be hard to pull the trigger on a ball dominant guard you think may be a bad shooter, so I’m not going get upset they didn’t take him especially when Wiseman is a beast.

Did you watch him though or did you just go by what you heard about him?

Also "Wiseman is a beast" in what sense? His resume was even more shallow than LaMelo. He's just a big guy that can run.

I did watch Lameo's games and he is not a good defender. Hes just not. He will gamble for steals and is a really good instinctive rebounder, but straight up defense? no

Elite passer though, and hes a decent shooter at this point, but you can't really say hes going to be a GOOD shooter with that terrible form.

And I'd say that as smart as you are, for you to say all Wiseman is is a big guy that can jump is asinine.

I said he can run. I guess he can jump too.

[EvanZ]

This conversation is reminiscent of guys who defended Monta or Harrison Barnes. It will be obvious to everyone before too long how stupid this looks. And I'm saying it now, because by then it will seem passe.