2020 Draft Thread, Part 2

[azwfan]

I wouldn't mind trading down in the top 8 and picking Vassell, he looks ready to slide right in to the teams defensive scheme.

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Vassell’s defense could go a long ways in getting our defense back up to championship standards.

Unfortunately his offense is not what Kerr seems to typically look for. He looks like a spot up shooter on offense and not a lot else.

God his team defense is nice tho.

He's got way more athleticism on tap than you'd expect for somebody who is labeled primarily as a spot-up shooter. In a small ish role, he can learn to cut and make plays when he attacks closeouts. Being able to shoot the lights out opens up the entire floor for you and he already plays good D.

Yeah, but he has a slow release (as said above), doesn't seem to be a plus passer, and doesnt seem able to get by his man. I'm not claiming to be a Vassell expert so others can definitely correct me where i'm wrong. I'm just pointing out why I don't think he's someone Kerr would take high in the draft.

When i watched his defense, knowing his 3pt shooting percentage, I wanted the Warriors to draft him with #2. But watching his offensive highlights he doesn't look anywhere near as... finished offensively as he does defensively. He would be great with a lot of teams as a Robert Covington type... but Kerr and / or the FO seem to really want players that are multi-dimensional on offense (passing, ball handling, shooting). He's really only a spot up shooter on offense (from what i saw). He did look good in transition after his steals / blocks on defense though.

I like Vassell, and would be thrilled if we traded down and got him, cause his defense would be great to pair with Draymond and Klay... but I don't think he's offensively what we'd be looking for. For example I think Okoro who doesnt have the length Vassell does, doesn't shoot as well as Vassell does, would fit us better offensively. Okoro seems to have a better feel and passing ability I didn't get from Vassell (in my hours upon hours of watching highlights on youtube haha). That said, I don't know a ton about these guys, I've just had a lot of time to watch Youtube scouting reports and highlights staying at working from home.

[wco81]

I thought some of the wings would be too light in the pants to deal with players like LBJ or Kawhi.

But Jeremy Grant has done okay. He isn't strong and can get pushed around but he has the length to bother them or at least make them work, if he doesn't get knocked off his feet.

Plus he's steadily improved his shooting. Not as much in the playoffs but during the regular seasons. Very good FT shooter too.

[Little Digger]

The 2016 NBA Draft Class
Ben Simmons
Brandon Ingram
Jaylen Brown
Buddy Hield
Jamal Murray
Domanatas Sabonis
Caris LeVert
Pascal Siakam
Dejounte Murray
Ivica Zubac
Malcom Brogdon
Fred VanVleet (undrafted )

[Quazza]

Excuse my ignorance , but will we actually get a chance to bring these kids in to work out ?

(Not entirely sure what the go with travel over there right now is )

[cdubbz]

Hypothetical:

You get 1 hour workout with any 3 prospects in the draft. They have to participate in whatever you want to see. Who do you pick and what drills/skills do you have them do?

1. James Wiseman
-15min drill: Post up gauntlet: a drill where 3-5 bigs post up to try and score and winner stays loser gets off court and keeps rotating. :10 sec shot clock.

-10 min: 3 point shooting drill. Any kind.

10min: mid range shooting drill

25min: 5 on 5 scrimmage. Against lesser competition so he’s not shook.


-

[jason bourne]

I had to lol at this. Before Tyler Herro was drafted, his comparison was Nik Stauskas/Joe Harris. That must hurt the Kings. Herro was drafted #13.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/tyler-herro/

[ILOVEIT]

Anybody who doesn’t think Wiseman’s length will be helpful is just blatantly ignorant. You can want other guys or question what Wiseman may become, but a legit 7’1” athlete with 7’5” wingspan is going to help all over the floor as well as battling the length of Davis and the Lakers.

Come on people

Do you have an example of a 19 year old 7 footer that didn't dominate in college at least for a full year that came into the league and played meaningful minutes in a playoffs/championship runs? In his college games, he looks awkward at times, get's abused by smaller guards who make simple drives past him. You can almost see him thinking every time he makes an offensive move. He appears slow footed laterally.

Imagine you are Denver and you are playing the Lakers. You have a 7'1" 19 year old (and let's assume he's not Kevin Garnett or Lebron level at 19...but more like Jermaine ONeal, Tyson Chandler and most of the other 19 year old big men coming into the league) on your team. Knowing that ALL rookies make mistakes and big men need time to develop, would you put him on AD? How many minutes would you play him? When they target him on a switch with Lebron (or any other playoff level guard) what happens then?

I think your position is that he's a developed big guy that can get in the mix right away and slow AD and other big guys down. I don't think that's realistic. Other than once in a decade type players, the history shows that a 19 year old big guy is not ready to help a team in a playoff push more then they are likely to hurt them.

I would rather draft a more mature (Euro experience or 2 year college player) SF, PF who can contribute right away.

[jason bourne]

Excuse my ignorance , but will we actually get a chance to bring these kids in to work out ?

(Not entirely sure what the go with travel over there right now is )

Warriors won't be able to bring the "kids" in to work out. Instead, the NBA has come out with this BS. What do you think? I wasn't overwhelmed since it sounds so formatted. It sounds like there is quite a bit of tech involved. It's also a way for the NBA to sell time and make money. For big men, I'd like to see some running and agility drills down the floor. Also, how their shot looks against NBA defenders.

'“NBA Draft Combine is an essential part of the pre-draft evaluation process,” said Byron Spruell, President, NBA League Operations. “While the circumstances surrounding this Combine are unique, we’re excited to creatively deliver a valuable experience for our teams, who have remained flexible through the process, and for prospective draftees who are just beginning their NBA journeys.”

NBA Draft Combine 2020 will give players the opportunity to participate in league and team interviews, both conducted via videoconference from Sept. 28 through Oct. 16. Players will also take part in an individual on-court program consisting of strength and agility testing, anthropometric measurements, shooting drills and a “Pro Day” video, all conducted in October at the NBA team facility nearest to a player’s home or interim residence. Medical testing and examinations will be performed by NBA-affiliated physicians in the same market.

As part of the event’s innovative format, the NBA will incorporate HomeCourt, a mobile basketball training application that uses advanced machine learning and computer vision, to provide analytics and record the shooting evaluation portion of NBA Combine 2020 and for players to create a unique “Pro Day” video. The video, used to showcase a player’s skills, may feature only the individual player (and either a coach or trainer) and can be up to 45 minutes long. HomeCourt is developed by NEX Team, Inc., an NBA strategic partner.

Additionally, the NBA has expanded its use of “Combine HQ,” an online tool developed by Fusion Sport in its software platform Smartabase. An interactive online platform, Combine HQ provides NBA teams with a one-stop shop for scouting information gathered during the on-court portions of this year’s Combine. Using Combine HQ, NBA teams and scouts will be able to compare participating players to their peers, past Combine participants and current NBA players, and view detailed shot charts and statistics.'

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/259665/NBA-To-Conduct-Draft-Combine-From-Sept-28-Through-Mid-November

[wco81]

I don't think they've ever had draft prospects scrimmage or do drills vs. NBA-level defenders.

Probably liability issues?

In football, QB prospects would throw to college teammates, not NFL WRs, for their pro days.

So unless the prospects can get some college players to help them out, and they both sign liability waivers in case of injury, it's probably not done.

Another way that the pandemic has hurt evaluations is that a lot of college players and other draft prospects usually play vs. NBA players in summer leagues or exhibitions of some kind.

So teams get a free look at how prospects look vs. pros.

When I was in college, I used to see Warriors players in the summer at Berkeley gyms. They didn't go all out, like guards would only shoot jumpers, rarely go into the lane where they might be contested. I think their contracts probably influence them not to take risks.

For instance they're prohibited from doing things like skiing or sky diving. Team could technically void contracts in such cases.

[Scoots1994]

I would think they could have pulled off a combine bubble somewhere, but at this point I suspect the agents were against it. Less data is good for all the top prospects.

[jason bourne]

I don't think they've ever had draft prospects scrimmage or do drills vs. NBA-level defenders.

Probably liability issues?

In football, QB prospects would throw to college teammates, not NFL WRs, for their pro days.

So unless the prospects can get some college players to help them out, and they both sign liability waivers in case of injury, it's probably not done.

Another way that the pandemic has hurt evaluations is that a lot of college players and other draft prospects usually play vs. NBA players in summer leagues or exhibitions of some kind.

So teams get a free look at how prospects look vs. pros.

When I was in college, I used to see Warriors players in the summer at Berkeley gyms. They didn't go all out, like guards would only shoot jumpers, rarely go into the lane where they might be contested. I think their contracts probably influence them not to take risks.

For instance they're prohibited from doing things like skiing or sky diving. Team could technically void contracts in such cases.

I didn't know about the liability. Maybe it was vs college players and some coaches.

Here's one where I thought the Kings should draft Damian Lillard instead of Thomas Robinson. The Wizard run a good workout. The Kings are bad working out and seeing all the players they had come in over the years. The Trail Blazers ran a good workout.

Thomas Robinson

Watch on YouTube

Damian Lillard

Watch on YouTube

Here's Kawhi Leonard's workout in which he looks a skosh slow. You just can't tell. His D is nice. The interview says something as he talks about himself and working out. His spiel is eye opening since he usually doesn't say much.

Watch on YouTube

[jason bourne]

Here's an example of a bad workout. I don't want to see this lol:

Watch on YouTube

[Swift21]

I don't think they've ever had draft prospects scrimmage or do drills vs. NBA-level defenders.

Probably liability issues?

In football, QB prospects would throw to college teammates, not NFL WRs, for their pro days.

So unless the prospects can get some college players to help them out, and they both sign liability waivers in case of injury, it's probably not done.

Another way that the pandemic has hurt evaluations is that a lot of college players and other draft prospects usually play vs. NBA players in summer leagues or exhibitions of some kind.

So teams get a free look at how prospects look vs. pros.

When I was in college, I used to see Warriors players in the summer at Berkeley gyms. They didn't go all out, like guards would only shoot jumpers, rarely go into the lane where they might be contested. I think their contracts probably influence them not to take risks.

For instance they're prohibited from doing things like skiing or sky diving. Team could technically void contracts in such cases.

I didn't know about the liability. Maybe it was vs college players and some coaches.

Here's one where I thought the Kings should draft Damian Lillard instead of Thomas Robinson. The Wizard run a good workout. The Kings are bad working out and seeing all the players they had come in over the years. The Trail Blazers ran a good workout.

Thomas Robinson

Watch on YouTube

Damian Lillard

Watch on YouTube

Here's Kawhi Leonard's workout in which he looks a skosh slow. You just can't tell. His D is nice. The interview says something as he talks about himself and working out. His spiel is eye opening since he usually doesn't say much.

Watch on YouTube

I love watching old workouts like these.

[Coxy]

Anybody who doesn’t think Wiseman’s length will be helpful is just blatantly ignorant. You can want other guys or question what Wiseman may become, but a legit 7’1” athlete with 7’5” wingspan is going to help all over the floor as well as battling the length of Davis and the Lakers.

Come on people

Do you have an example of a 19 year old 7 footer that didn't dominate in college at least for a full year that came into the league and played meaningful minutes in a playoffs/championship runs? In his college games, he looks awkward at times, get's abused by smaller guards who make simple drives past him. You can almost see him thinking every time he makes an offensive move. He appears slow footed laterally.

Imagine you are Denver and you are playing the Lakers. You have a 7'1" 19 year old (and let's assume he's not Kevin Garnett or Lebron level at 19...but more like Jermaine ONeal, Tyson Chandler and most of the other 19 year old big men coming into the league) on your team. Knowing that ALL rookies make mistakes and big men need time to develop, would you put him on AD? How many minutes would you play him? When they target him on a switch with Lebron (or any other playoff level guard) what happens then?

I think your position is that he's a developed big guy that can get in the mix right away and slow AD and other big guys down. I don't think that's realistic. Other than once in a decade type players, the history shows that a 19 year old big guy is not ready to help a team in a playoff push more then they are likely to hurt them.

I would rather draft a more mature (Euro experience or 2 year college player) SF, PF who can contribute right away.

I doubt Myers will get sucked into picking a player at #2 that is older and further along just so they can produce a little more than a guy that has franchise talent at the position but needs time.

[ILOVEIT]

Anybody who doesn’t think Wiseman’s length will be helpful is just blatantly ignorant. You can want other guys or question what Wiseman may become, but a legit 7’1” athlete with 7’5” wingspan is going to help all over the floor as well as battling the length of Davis and the Lakers.

Come on people

Do you have an example of a 19 year old 7 footer that didn't dominate in college at least for a full year that came into the league and played meaningful minutes in a playoffs/championship runs? In his college games, he looks awkward at times, get's abused by smaller guards who make simple drives past him. You can almost see him thinking every time he makes an offensive move. He appears slow footed laterally.

Imagine you are Denver and you are playing the Lakers. You have a 7'1" 19 year old (and let's assume he's not Kevin Garnett or Lebron level at 19...but more like Jermaine ONeal, Tyson Chandler and most of the other 19 year old big men coming into the league) on your team. Knowing that ALL rookies make mistakes and big men need time to develop, would you put him on AD? How many minutes would you play him? When they target him on a switch with Lebron (or any other playoff level guard) what happens then?

I think your position is that he's a developed big guy that can get in the mix right away and slow AD and other big guys down. I don't think that's realistic. Other than once in a decade type players, the history shows that a 19 year old big guy is not ready to help a team in a playoff push more then they are likely to hurt them.

I would rather draft a more mature (Euro experience or 2 year college player) SF, PF who can contribute right away.

I doubt Myers will get sucked into picking a player at #2 that is older and further along just so they can produce a little more than a guy that has franchise talent at the position but needs time.

Franchise talent huh? Ignoring this video below....Wiseman looks really slow footed....He has below average hands. His shot is super slow. . It's like he winds up from the knees to get his shot off. We've ALL seen greatness coming out of High School. When you see it you know it. Shaq dominates...is quick. The Admiral was quick and dominant. KG was clearly dominant.

Let's put it this way. Anthony "Baby Jesus" Randolph looked twice as good as Wiseman does now. AR was a complete bust.

Anyway....no more discussion on this as it's about some folks seeing a franchise talent center vs others (like me) seeing a slow footed guy that hid for most of his career so far.

[url]

Watch on YouTube

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[ShayDee]

[url]

Watch on YouTube

;t=30s[/url]

This video doesn't mean ****. Why do people keep bringing this up? A 19 y/o kid is already a finished product now? You want me to find terrible games of Steph in college? Klay? Dray? Bad Lebron high school games? Bad Jordan college games? Steph Curry's awful summer league?

Why are we bringing up 1 game of someone now, that is a so out of context stint from a bleacher report "scout" that hates Wiseman? You want me to dig up games where AD was slow footed against whoever he defended? Missed shots? Didn't catch the ball from a lob? Missed rotations? Fouled alot? Jamal Murray last game took a shot over him and made it. Just look at how that dude nitpicks a good contest from Wiseman on Payton Pritchard.

You realize Deni had a 0 point game recently right? After he missed 4 shots and his team lost and he played 22 mins. You wanna bring that up too? And what evidence do you have Deni is mature at all? He sounds super cocky to me when he isn't even really that good and gets hyper emotional and pouty whenever his coach doesn't run plays for him. That kind of the guy you want when he is never going to get any touches on this team?

Just because he didn't play any games all of a sudden he is a terrible prospect because of one game. This is insane lol

[jason bourne]

I love watching old workouts like these.

That's cause it's a good workout. The workout Thomas Robinson is dong for the Wizards was designed to test big men when they shoot on the run. The Wizards figured out that it is more difficult for big men and their momentum to be in balance when they shoot like that. For the smaller men, it's better to challenge them to see how easy or tough it is to throw off their balance. The Kings are stupid. They have a table of judges on the sidelines evaluating what the draftee is doing like a beauty contest. They're not challenged very much in their workouts using cones and shooting from certain spots on the floor. I think you want to be on the floor to see how quick a guy's first step is and how balanced he is. You can also better judge how much height he's getting. The controlled scrimmage tests defense as well as offense. There should be no excuse for a former player turned GM not to be on the floor during workouts and not be judging it like a beauty contest sitting behind a table.

[shazam_guy]

Keith Smart.

[ILOVEIT]

[url]

Watch on YouTube

;t=30s[/url]

This video doesn't mean ****. Why do people keep bringing this up? A 19 y/o kid is already a finished product now? You want me to find terrible games of Steph in college? Klay? Dray? Bad Lebron high school games? Bad Jordan college games? Steph Curry's awful summer league?

Why are we bringing up 1 game of someone now, that is a so out of context stint from a bleacher report "scout" that hates Wiseman? You want me to dig up games where AD was slow footed against whoever he defended? Missed shots? Didn't catch the ball from a lob? Missed rotations? Fouled alot? Jamal Murray last game took a shot over him and made it. Just look at how that dude nitpicks a good contest from Wiseman on Payton Pritchard.

You realize Deni had a 0 point game recently right? After he missed 4 shots and his team lost and he played 22 mins. You wanna bring that up too? And what evidence do you have Deni is mature at all? He sounds super cocky to me when he isn't even really that good and gets hyper emotional and pouty whenever his coach doesn't run plays for him. That kind of the guy you want when he is never going to get any touches on this team?

Just because he didn't play any games all of a sudden he is a terrible prospect because of one game. This is insane lol

Huh? I'm not saying that. I'm saying "just because he didn't play any games" we shouldn't THINK he's somehow a franchise talent. You can't say "that's insane to think he's going to suck" without evidence then say "he's likely a franchise talent" without evidence.

I'm arguing that there is little we've seen that would suggest the Warriors can't rely on this young dude for any meaningful minutes in a playoff run for the next two years. Is THAT insane?

If you all can tell me that it's very common for young 19 year old's who haven't played a full year of college to come in and have some immediate impact in big time games without also being a huge risk....I'm all ears.

Sheesh...I think I'm being pretty reasonable.

[ILOVEIT]

[url]

Watch on YouTube

;t=30s[/url]

This video doesn't mean ****. Why do people keep bringing this up? A 19 y/o kid is already a finished product now? You want me to find terrible games of Steph in college? Klay? Dray? Bad Lebron high school games? Bad Jordan college games? Steph Curry's awful summer league?

The only difference is that all those guys you named...happen to have a history of dominant games to offset that one game. Kind of a silly argument....