ImageImageImageImageImage

Invisible Game thread

Moderators: Chris Porter's Hair, floppymoose, Sleepy51

Souvlaki
Head Coach
Posts: 6,148
And1: 3
Joined: Mar 02, 2003
Location: Doing wheelies on my Moped

 

Post#261 » by Souvlaki » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:21 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:So here's the gameflow from last night.
http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gamef ... ame=GSWUTH

What jumps out to me is how few minutes our best 5 players were allowed to play together. Take a look at the lineup +/- in the middle section. The "fab five" hardly saw the floor together at all last night. I realize that we had over a quarter of garbage time, and they certainly would have seen some more minutes together in a competitive 4th, but I can fathom the logic of that first half.


+/- says Monta was the worst player last night. Best player? CJ. And don't give me that garbage time BS either. The Jazz played their starters all but the last 2 minutes.
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 35,709
And1: 2,331
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

 

Post#262 » by Sleepy51 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:36 pm

Souvlaki wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



+/- says Monta was the worst player last night. Best player? CJ. And don't give me that garbage time BS either. The Jazz played their starters all but the last 2 minutes.



Yes, Monta was sluggish last night (too much eats during the break - did he look fat to you?) Jack hobbled, Baron lazy. The defense was repeatedly compromised by Webbers slothtitude, but Utah was just plain ol in ass kicking mode.

As far as the Jazz playing their starters down the line, they weren't playing very hard. Not to say our backups were bad in garbagetime, but I don't think CJ goes off against Utah's D if he plays in the 1st quarter.
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
User avatar
crzy
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,224
And1: 0
Joined: Jan 10, 2006
Location: San Francisco

 

Post#263 » by crzy » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:01 pm

I hate playing Utah.
Image
Twinkie defense
RealGM
Posts: 20,149
And1: 1,602
Joined: Jul 15, 2005

 

Post#264 » by Twinkie defense » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:43 pm

turk3d wrote:Hester, your article indicates that Andris is "more" effective when he plays more minutes for the most part so I don't see what that article is really telling us. What the f** is he playing Croshere so many minutes for in last nights game? He was totally inneffective. He moves just about as slow as Webber.


Have another look turk...

The question was why does Biedrins sometimes play more, sometimes less, and is that good or bad. The answer was that he does not play worse when he plays less, and whether he played more or less had little effect on the win/loss ratio.

In high minute games vs. low minute games:

Shooting percentage: nearly identical
Points: pretty close
Rebounds: nearly identical
Blocks and fouls: big difference
User avatar
FNQ
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 62,963
And1: 20,008
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Location: EOL 6/23
   

 

Post#265 » by FNQ » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:47 am

Souvlaki wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



+/- says Monta was the worst player last night. Best player? CJ. And don't give me that garbage time BS either. The Jazz played their starters all but the last 2 minutes.


:rofl:

You aren't joking... wow... I legitimately thought it was just a crusade against a stat you don't like but you literally don't understand it...

Way to justify CJ's +/- too... You're classic man :lol:
Sid the Squid
Banned User
Posts: 26,062
And1: 9
Joined: Sep 16, 2005

 

Post#266 » by Sid the Squid » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:58 am

I thought he was joking at 1st too :P
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 35,709
And1: 2,331
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

 

Post#267 » by Sleepy51 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:08 am

jrhester wrote:Sleepy, on the who to start/best five question... if I remember, the Warriors started pretty well, didn't they? It was only at the and of the second, when the starters were out, that everything fell apart (not that it wasn't bound to happen at some point anyway).


Unfortunately, you're remember wrong.

We were down and being outplayed when Webb was on the floor to start. He make a couple of individual plays that I actually liked, but the team concepts we use on both ends were totally broken because he just can't move. Utah shot >70% during Webbs first stint. Boozer was 4-4 and Kirelenko was 3-3 and Deron was 3-4. Almost every bucket was off pick and roll with Webbs man screening. He was wearing a bullseye on D like a giant Bukie. No, that's not entirely on him individually, but he completely impairs our ability to defend the most basic play in basketball - meanwhile Dre is GREAT at defending it.

We played well when Dre replaced Webb, but then Cro was brought in for Al just minutes later and we got rolled until the mid 2nd when Al came back and caught fire. Then the final collapse happened at the end of the second, but we dug a hole to start the game and let the opposing team get off to a 70% shooting start. You let opponents get hot, they don't always cool off. That's why starting strong is generally regarded as somewhat important in the sports world.

I can bittorrent you the 1st half from my TIVO if I really need to prove it.
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
User avatar
FNQ
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 62,963
And1: 20,008
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Location: EOL 6/23
   

 

Post#268 » by FNQ » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:11 am

Sleepy51 wrote:I can bittorrent you the 1st half from my TIVO if I really need to prove it.


I dunno :censored: about CPUs... can you do that? Could there be a place I could upload some game footage on to?

I'm working again this coming weekend and I dont need 15 high schoolers at my place watching my TV while I point out zone rotations :/ an internet link would be great...
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 35,709
And1: 2,331
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

 

Post#269 » by Sleepy51 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:16 am

510Reggae wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I dunno :censored: about CPUs... can you do that? Could there be a place I could upload some game footage on to?

I'm working again this coming weekend and I dont need 15 high schoolers at my place watching my TV while I point out zone rotations :/ an internet link would be great...


Man . . .it's a big hassle (I hope Hester doesn't really call me on that :lol: ) You have to have TVinput on your video card so you can bring a regular digital signal into your PC the you have to create a .torrent file and then upload it to a tracker . . . and on and on.

Just have one of their parents host a dinner and bring tapes.
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
User avatar
FNQ
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 62,963
And1: 20,008
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Location: EOL 6/23
   

 

Post#270 » by FNQ » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:18 am

Ok... I understood video, upload, parents and dinner.

I'm only 24... I'm supposed to be in the CPU generation... :banghead:
Souvlaki
Head Coach
Posts: 6,148
And1: 3
Joined: Mar 02, 2003
Location: Doing wheelies on my Moped

 

Post#271 » by Souvlaki » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:07 am

510Reggae wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



:rofl:

You aren't joking... wow... I legitimately thought it was just a crusade against a stat you don't like but you literally don't understand it...

Way to justify CJ's +/- too... You're classic man :lol:


No I literally do understand it, and I love shoving that fact in your face and making your squirm.

:lol:
User avatar
floppymoose
Senior Mod - Warriors
Senior Mod - Warriors
Posts: 59,200
And1: 17,285
Joined: Jun 22, 2003
Location: Trust your election workers

 

Post#272 » by floppymoose » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:37 am

Souvs, you realize you are arguing with no one, right? No one on the board believes +- shows anything over so few minutes.
Twinkie defense
RealGM
Posts: 20,149
And1: 1,602
Joined: Jul 15, 2005

 

Post#273 » by Twinkie defense » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:43 am

Sleepy51 wrote:Man . . .it's a big hassle (I hope Hester doesn't really call me on that :lol: ) You have to have TVinput on your video card so you can bring a regular digital signal into your PC the you have to create a .torrent file and then upload it to a tracker


I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I was at Puerto Allegre, drinkin' margaritas and watchin' the game with no sound. It just seemed to me that nothing fell apart until the end of the 2nd. But again, I think the collapse was to be expected, no matter if the fave five played all 48.
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 35,709
And1: 2,331
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

 

Post#274 » by Sleepy51 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:32 pm

So . . . here's my Nellie review on what has to be considered his best coaching performance of the season:

Sleepy51 wrote:Back on the topic of basketball . . . Nellie just about lost me last night. I've very unhappy with the rotations right now, and I'm furious about how Beans is being underutilized.


Dre was NOT underutilized last night. The guy is a franchise big, and when used like on he performs like one. Now we just need Nellie to remember to use him like that more than twice a month. Beans should be given 30+ or 5 fouls every night. He needs to be involved just like last night.

Sleepy51 wrote:So I'm thinking about what would I want to see to consider this season successful, and believe in Nellie for another season:

The big thing: winning cures all. We get the playoff spot in an incrediblly tough west, with this very limited roster (depth wise) and win in the 1st round and I'd have a hard time complaining about the coaching job. Last night was a tough matchup against a team playing fantastic ball at home. Fine, write off the loss, and try some stuff out . . . but we can't do that more than a couple of times and stay in the playoff hunt.

Last night looked a lot less like "tinkering" and a lot more like giving our guys the best chance to win by playing the best players.

Sleepy51 wrote:Webb has to be fit in better. He's an obstacle to the pick and roll, and compromises our quirky defensive philosophy. Nellie has to come up with a better way to fit him in than pounding a square peg into a round hole. His bulk, passing and 15 footer can help, but Webber being a success here will come down to more than the other guys moving better around him. We need systemic changes for it to work, that means more/better coaching.


Webb did fit in better last night. Starting him next to Dre was a very different vibe than starting him next to anyone else +1 for LF. Dre can do the things Web can't, and the fact that Webb loosened up and made some dfensive plays seemed to really get other guys going and supportive of him in the lineup. Webb stepping up and being a + in a game like that will go a long way toward smoothing out the chemistry issues. That changes the whole dynamic of starting him. I'm still a little wary, but I'll take my lumps happily if things trend this way for a few consistent games.

P.S. Al totally bought in to being supersub last night. I have never in my basketball watching days seen a guy with Al's skill and physical tools adopt and execute the role of energy/hustle player like he did last night. Skilled guys just don't do what he did, they are too proud, or too used to pacing themselvee to spend all night diving on the floor, and biting and clawing like a walk-on. Al can do anything asked of him. He is an absolute keeper.

Sleepy51 wrote:Wright has to play. Assuming Pete isn't deal today, the bench has to be lengthened by more effective use of what we've got (and benching starters doesn't count.) Right now, Barnes is our whole bench - as far as some degree of consitency and positive contribution. Pete is AWOL, Bukie has been neutered, Cro is comming back from injury, CJ is a nothing, but there sits Wright, lenght, talent, energy and good court sense . . . just languishing in the phantom zone.

Wright playing is still important to me. One good game doesn't sell me on Pietrus as a fixture, but what a contribution from him last night. But, on a night where Pete does bring it like that he belongs on the floor. Barnes and Pete are rarely both having good nights at the same time, it would still be nice to see Wright getting a check-in for whichever one of them decides to be the scrub on a given night.
No CJ made me very happy.


Sleepy51 wrote:At this point, I feel like Nellie's handling has made our bench worse than it was at the start of the season. I feel like we're 6 deep now, with Webb as a possible 7th if handled better. Bukie should not have gotten worse as the season progressed, and Pete should have been fit in, or dealt if he's become obstinate.


Little thing, but even though everybody hated Dre getting pulled with timeouts, I appreciated Nellie going to Bukie for the FT period. He needs some confidence moments like that, he needs the coach to look his way once in a while with positive expectations. The guy was making a solid contribution early on, despite his defensive weakness. I think that was a good sign for Nellie to let him on the floor in moments that mattered last night.

Sleepy51 wrote:This next 2 weeks will probably end up being the whole ball of wax unless someone else stumbles badly. I think there's a lot less room for error than those who have yet to find fault with Nellie's stewardship contend. A couple of posters keep saying to lay off the HOF coach until there's a real failure to complain about. I'm not cheering for failure so that I can be right, and I'd rather Nellie prove me totally wrong and make everything he's trying work perfectly, but the clock is SOOO ticking right now.


+1 for Nellie. He needs to do it 18 more times to lock up the playoff spot and prove all us "haters" wrong, but that was a well coached game. I would have to welcome another 82 games coached that way next season.
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?

Return to Golden State Warriors