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Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2841 » by vvoland » Thu Sep 4, 2025 5:44 pm

AirP. wrote:
Restricted free agent Cam Thomas is signing a one-year, $6 million qualifying offer to return to the Brooklyn Nets, sources tell ESPN. Sides were unable to reach a new deal so the QO gives Thomas a full no-trade clause and 2026 unrestricted free agency with 10+ cap space teams.

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Seems Brooklyn wants that cap space to keep bringing in bad contracts with assets attached to them. Makes sense for Cam since they weren't offering much more than his QO for the 1st year.
Spoiler:
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He'll need a contract at ~$24M next year to make up turning down the 30. Hitting UFA a year early may be worth it but the downside is significant. Especially if the nets are petty about it.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2842 » by AirP. » Thu Sep 4, 2025 5:47 pm

vvoland wrote:
AirP. wrote:
Restricted free agent Cam Thomas is signing a one-year, $6 million qualifying offer to return to the Brooklyn Nets, sources tell ESPN. Sides were unable to reach a new deal so the QO gives Thomas a full no-trade clause and 2026 unrestricted free agency with 10+ cap space teams.

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Seems Brooklyn wants that cap space to keep bringing in bad contracts with assets attached to them. Makes sense for Cam since they weren't offering much more than his QO for the 1st year.
Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


He'll need a contract at ~$24M next year to make up turning down the 30. Hitting UFA a year early may be worth it but the downside is significant. Especially if the nets are petty about it.

He wasn't getting the 2nd year.
Here's my spoiler from my previous post. It was nearly a no brainer for Cam to take the QO in this situation. The mid-level exception is more than what they offered him his 1st year.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2843 » by statsman » Thu Sep 4, 2025 5:50 pm

I can see why Cam took the QO, but with the Nets drafting, what, 4-5 guards, and the likelihood of them tanking, just how much reliable playing time is Cam going to get?
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2844 » by vvoland » Thu Sep 4, 2025 6:00 pm

statsman wrote:I can see why Cam took the QO, but with the Nets drafting, what, 4-5 guards, and the likelihood of them tanking, just how much reliable playing time is Cam going to get?


That's what I meant by the nets being petty. Sure, they may have turned down the TO but I think Cam's play would have something to say about that. Not to mention his chances of playing well enough to get traded and bringing back a real asset are >0. Not anymore.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2845 » by bay2hk » Thu Sep 4, 2025 8:41 pm

Good riddance. The rest will follow. The longer JK waits the weaker position he’s going to be in. Warriors rightly called JK’s bluff. We currently have the best offer to him and don’t need to improve it. Warriors should set a deadline of when they’ll pull their current offer so we can get a move on in FA.

Separate note. Wonder how Nets will use the rest of their cap space now.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2846 » by Twinkie defense » Thu Sep 4, 2025 8:45 pm

statsman wrote:The only other scenario I see is the Warriors are protecting themselves from Kuminga getting a surprise RFA offer that the Warriors can't match because they hard capped themselves at the 2nd apron with a Horford signing (or anyone else with the TPMLE).

I think that's why they are waiting on those other deals.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2847 » by Onus » Thu Sep 4, 2025 8:52 pm

vvoland wrote:
Onus wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
Why would GS improve their offer? To have a tradeable contract :dontknow:

JK's team canvassed the entire league and the best they came up with was 2 2nds for JK on a long term deal. That's basically what you get for an expiring deal. So JK on an expiring deal gets more suitors for the same value as JK on a long term deal in which only 1 team was willing to give up that value. So improving our offer would not make JK a more tradeable contract.

If they want a larger salary slot they can just pay GP2 more on a 1 year deal. Hell if they really want to they can only guarantee a certain amount of it after a certain date of it so that he can be cut after he gets traded as well which would be an even better trade asset than an expiring contract.

JK taking the QO isn't terrible, tbh it might be an even better option for us than him signing the 1+1 at this point. The only benefit for the 1+1 is that it's a larger salary slot. That is the only leverage JK has currently, a larger salary slot, and that's not enticing enough to improve our offer.



This was the worst market in recent memory for FAs, particularly RFAs. How bad do you think JK needs to play for the dubs to not get a better offer when the BYC issues fade? Just being hard capped at the 1st apron probably eliminated 20 teams this summer. The additional salary issues likely dissuaded a few others. I would imagine our offers would be much improved by Feb, assuming JK isn't getting DNP-CDs.

I don't know why you'd want to give a large salary to gp2, a guy you said you didn't want back on this team earlier this summer. Now you want to pay him 15M in the hopes someone would like him as an expiring deal? Not so sure.

How much better do you think he will play from his games against the wolves? He avg 20? On good eff in the playoffs and his value is still this low. If his value is this low after that performance in the playoffs what makes you think his value will go up or stay the same when he’s going to have a smaller role and not be a focal point.

Teams were still able to offer other players like Malik monk. Like would you take mm even if we didn’t have to send out buddy or moody?

If you’re looking for an expiring contract you don’t care if that player is useable or not. Plus if we structure his contract so that he can be cut after the trade deadline with no cap hit that would be even better. Instant cap relief is probably even more valuable than an expiring contract. Like if you’re trading for cap relief does it even matter who the contract is attached to? Teams trade for injured players if they have an expiring contract.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2848 » by Onus » Thu Sep 4, 2025 8:57 pm

whatisacenter wrote:
Onus wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
Why would GS improve their offer? To have a tradeable contract :dontknow:

JK's team canvassed the entire league and the best they came up with was 2 2nds for JK on a long term deal. That's basically what you get for an expiring deal. So JK on an expiring deal gets more suitors for the same value as JK on a long term deal in which only 1 team was willing to give up that value. So improving our offer would not make JK a more tradeable contract.

If they want a larger salary slot they can just pay GP2 more on a 1 year deal. Hell if they really want to they can only guarantee a certain amount of it after a certain date of it so that he can be cut after he gets traded as well which would be an even better trade asset than an expiring contract.

JK taking the QO isn't terrible, tbh it might be an even better option for us than him signing the 1+1 at this point. The only benefit for the 1+1 is that it's a larger salary slot. That is the only leverage JK has currently, a larger salary slot, and that's not enticing enough to improve our offer.


So you are just going to ignore the BYC rules that would not be factored in if they traded him at the deadline?

So you think Malik monk + protected 1st for jk straight up is going to move the needle? Great we’re able to get someone else on a bloated contract and negative value
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2849 » by EvanZ » Thu Sep 4, 2025 9:03 pm

Onus wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
Onus wrote:JK's team canvassed the entire league and the best they came up with was 2 2nds for JK on a long term deal. That's basically what you get for an expiring deal. So JK on an expiring deal gets more suitors for the same value as JK on a long term deal in which only 1 team was willing to give up that value. So improving our offer would not make JK a more tradeable contract.

If they want a larger salary slot they can just pay GP2 more on a 1 year deal. Hell if they really want to they can only guarantee a certain amount of it after a certain date of it so that he can be cut after he gets traded as well which would be an even better trade asset than an expiring contract.

JK taking the QO isn't terrible, tbh it might be an even better option for us than him signing the 1+1 at this point. The only benefit for the 1+1 is that it's a larger salary slot. That is the only leverage JK has currently, a larger salary slot, and that's not enticing enough to improve our offer.


So you are just going to ignore the BYC rules that would not be factored in if they traded him at the deadline?

So you think Malik monk + protected 1st for jk straight up is going to move the needle? Great we’re able to get someone else on a bloated contract and negative value


No question Monk helps this team relative to any contributions JK would give in the next year. I think the question is whether we want his salary.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2850 » by statsman » Thu Sep 4, 2025 9:04 pm

Onus wrote:So you think Malik monk + protected 1st for jk straight up is going to move the needle? Great we’re able to get someone else on a bloated contract and negative value

That heavily protected first doesn't even come close to offsetting Monk's contract. IMO, I don't think it does even if it were an unprotected first. And that doesn't address handing them Kuminga while also losing one of Hield/Moody.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2851 » by Twinkie defense » Thu Sep 4, 2025 9:12 pm

vvoland wrote:If the 'ceiling' of this scenario is moving JK as an expiring, I don't find that to be a rational take. Yes, JK can get hurt but, even at that point, you'd want the 2nd year so he can recover while you still have his rights. No one would trade for an injured JK on a 1 year deal w/ no bird rights except as JUST as matching/expiring salary.

If I'm the Warriors I'm thinking 1) we can't screw up our cap, we're already operating under very tight restrictions and we have to be able to get Steph Curry some help. And 2) we already don't like Kuminga. It's a real risk having him on the roster (see: 1). So how can we utilize Kuminga's contract to get better, while minimizing the downside of having him on the team beyond the trade deadline?

And in that line of thinking, not budging on the team option for year two makes a lot of sense. What if he's garbage and no one wants to trade for him? They gotta send out assets just to get his contract off the books? If he's garbage but on an expiring contract you can still move him and make the team better. Or worst case, just make his contract disappear.

Now best case scenario he plays really well and the Warriors are able to trade him for real value. But which of these scenarios do you think is more likely? Assuming Kuminga doesn't sign the QO, I think you've got a 90-something percent chance of the former scenario playing out - he's basically a salary slot, that, depending on the player you get back, you might need to attach some other assets to. And you can just look at what teams are offering to see this is the current value proposition. And a less than 10% chance that he increases his value so much that there is a bidding war to acquire him.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2852 » by Twinkie defense » Thu Sep 4, 2025 9:17 pm

whatisacenter wrote:Why would GS improve their offer? To have a tradeable contract :dontknow:

You seem to assume that Kuminga is tradeable on a $24 mil guaranteed 2026-2027 contract... how did that work out with Jordan Poole?

And teams are much more wary now of adding bad salary.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2853 » by Twinkie defense » Thu Sep 4, 2025 9:32 pm

vvoland wrote:anyone trading for him as an expiring is giving us garbage in return.

IDK, what can you get for half a season of a $21 mil contract plus four first-round picks?

And if you don't have that $21 mil expiring how are you gonna cobble together enough salary without tearing apart your roster? And does the other team want the players/salary you are offering?
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2854 » by whatisacenter » Thu Sep 4, 2025 9:36 pm

Onus wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
Onus wrote:JK's team canvassed the entire league and the best they came up with was 2 2nds for JK on a long term deal. That's basically what you get for an expiring deal. So JK on an expiring deal gets more suitors for the same value as JK on a long term deal in which only 1 team was willing to give up that value. So improving our offer would not make JK a more tradeable contract.

If they want a larger salary slot they can just pay GP2 more on a 1 year deal. Hell if they really want to they can only guarantee a certain amount of it after a certain date of it so that he can be cut after he gets traded as well which would be an even better trade asset than an expiring contract.

JK taking the QO isn't terrible, tbh it might be an even better option for us than him signing the 1+1 at this point. The only benefit for the 1+1 is that it's a larger salary slot. That is the only leverage JK has currently, a larger salary slot, and that's not enticing enough to improve our offer.


So you are just going to ignore the BYC rules that would not be factored in if they traded him at the deadline?

So you think Malik monk + protected 1st for jk straight up is going to move the needle? Great we’re able to get someone else on a bloated contract and negative value


You’re missing the boat here.

If the warriors improve their offer and JK accepts it, they will be able to receive a better return than they are if they were to move him in a S&T.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2855 » by Twinkie defense » Thu Sep 4, 2025 9:38 pm

bay2hk wrote:Warriors should set a deadline of when they’ll pull their current offer so we can get a move on in FA.

Warriors only have to wait until October 1, just a few more weeks, and before even the first preseason game. Warriors have handshake deals with several players, they don't gain much by forcing Kuminga to make an early decision.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2856 » by Twinkie defense » Thu Sep 4, 2025 9:48 pm

whatisacenter wrote:If the warriors improve their offer and JK accepts it, they will be able to receive a better return than they are if they were to move him in a S&T.

If you look at what other teams are offering in trade or free agency to get Kuminga, it seems like Warriors are already offering more than market value. There comes a point contracts have negative value. Having a negative value Kuming contract on the books right now is the absolute worst thing the Warriors could do, because you have a very tight path to win given the cap situation and Curry's age. I think you are smart to be extra careful and conservative right now in creating or acquiring salary against your cap. And in Kuminga's case it's almost a no-brainer to be conservative and careful because you have FOUR YEARS of data showing he is not a good fit on the roster.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2857 » by Onus » Thu Sep 4, 2025 10:08 pm

EvanZ wrote:
Onus wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
So you are just going to ignore the BYC rules that would not be factored in if they traded him at the deadline?

So you think Malik monk + protected 1st for jk straight up is going to move the needle? Great we’re able to get someone else on a bloated contract and negative value


No question Monk helps this team relative to any contributions JK would give in the next year. I think the question is whether we want his salary.

That's the issue Monk is a negative contract value. I think he would help but we would have so many playable guards.


statsman wrote:
Onus wrote:So you think Malik monk + protected 1st for jk straight up is going to move the needle? Great we’re able to get someone else on a bloated contract and negative value

That heavily protected first doesn't even come close to offsetting Monk's contract. IMO, I don't think it does even if it were an unprotected first. And that doesn't address handing them Kuminga while also losing one of Hield/Moody.

This was in context of without the byc so we wouldn't have to trade one of buddy or Moody at the deadline.

I'd still rather get Carter rather than Monk ...
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2858 » by bay2hk » Thu Sep 4, 2025 10:09 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:
bay2hk wrote:Warriors should set a deadline of when they’ll pull their current offer so we can get a move on in FA.

Warriors only have to wait until October 1, just a few more weeks, and before even the first preseason game. Warriors have handshake deals with several players, they don't gain much by forcing Kuminga to make an early decision.


Agree but this just shows you JK is bluffing his ass off. He doesn’t intent to take the QO. If he was so confident in his ability to earn a big contract next year he would have already taken the QO before Cam did.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2859 » by Onus » Thu Sep 4, 2025 10:10 pm

whatisacenter wrote:
Onus wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
So you are just going to ignore the BYC rules that would not be factored in if they traded him at the deadline?

So you think Malik monk + protected 1st for jk straight up is going to move the needle? Great we’re able to get someone else on a bloated contract and negative value


You’re missing the boat here.

If the warriors improve their offer and JK accepts it, they will be able to receive a better return than they are if they were to move him in a S&T.

Why would they be able to receive a better return? They can just accept more salary that doesn't change JK's value.
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Re: Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga 

Post#2860 » by whatisacenter » Thu Sep 4, 2025 10:35 pm

Onus wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
Onus wrote:So you think Malik monk + protected 1st for jk straight up is going to move the needle? Great we’re able to get someone else on a bloated contract and negative value


You’re missing the boat here.

If the warriors improve their offer and JK accepts it, they will be able to receive a better return than they are if they were to move him in a S&T.

Why would they be able to receive a better return? They can just accept more salary that doesn't change JK's value.


Sure it does. A team hardly ever gets full value for a player in RFA. He would be more valuable at the deadline, IMO.

I think JK will have multiple teams interested in him if he hits UFA...Did any of the teams for the other RFA's receive trade offers? I didn't hear of any.

If you are right then the Warriors should have never extended a QO to JK if he has negative value.
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