2020 Draft Thread, Part 2

[jason bourne]

I do like LaMelo Ball's game a lot, but didn't say I like LaMelo for the Warriors. There would be question as to his fit here as he would want to be the ball dominant PG. Instead, I think he's a way to get Ben Simmons as PF, point forward, and 1st team All-Defense. Simmons would also be a threat to score inside.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/2020-nba-free-agency-sixers-glenn-robinson-alec-burks-raul-neto-kyle-oquinn-ryan-broekhoff

Anyway, the above is what the Elton Brand keeps saying -- watch his video inside -- the discussion for a trade is for a different thread. BTW, I'd love to get GRob III back which is also a discussion for a different thread, too.

[jason bourne]

After 3 games Wiseman is foul Prone now? You know it was only 1 game he had 3 fouls right? The other 2 games he had only 1 foul. Too early to determine that unless we are going back to his high school tape, but it's fine if you wanna label him foul prone. Any other C will get in foul trouble that we acquire in FA defending Bron/AD so I doubt that matters

Wiseman averaged 23.0 mpg at Memphis. He had 2.9 fouls per 40. I can see him getting into foul trouble if other bigs like Joel Embiid decide to take it to his punk ass.

Onyeka 3.5 fouls per 40, he's bad, Okoro 3.5 fouls, yuck, Vassell 2.7 , Edwards 2.6, Deni 3.4, Lamelo 3.0 Precious 3.1, Jalen Smith 3.0, Oturu 3.2, Patrick Williams 2.9, Saddiq Bey 2.9, etc etc etc etc.

Bro please find another argument. What basis are you using this as a knock but ignore every single other prospect? You going to doubt they won't foul out too?

The other argument is these guys played a whole year in college. They didn't quit like the quitter Wiseman. Wiseman couldn't get past the adversity of him being punished for a weird interpretation of the rules by NCAA and just gave up.

You also conveniently leave out how I put Joel Embiid, with comparable measurements to Wiseman, to make an example of punkass Wiseman. Your argument is a non-sequitur.

[jason bourne]

Not sure why you’re stretching the narrative or ridicule that he’s being compared to David Robinson? What are you trying to prove? Maybe you should be hired as a scouter since you’re a great evaluator of talent? Just to put this annoyance and utter nonsense of a discussion to its final rest, here are articles of him saying so and an NBA analyst:

https://247sports.com/Article/James-Wiseman-No-1-pick-NBA-Draft-David-Robinson-comparison-140942091/

http://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/james-wiseman-looking-to-model-his-game-after-a-spurs-legend

Clearly he’s trying to find a good comparison to a player. He even said he’s comparable to Anthony Davis with Richard Jefferson and Scottie Pippen. In the end, we’ll make that call and other experts when he’s 3-4 years in the league.

I can accept the first one, but the last sentence in the second one is MOST telling .

Wiseman himself compared himself to DRob. "Robinson had a Hall of Fame career so if Wiseman is looking to emulate "The Admiral" he has quite the ways to go."

It goes to show that Wiseman is delusional and he doesn't really have a mid-range shot like the Admiral. The Admiral would not quit under adversity. Wiseman folded his tent and went home. Thus, I'll go with the other analysts who have him pegged as Hassan Whiteside or DeAndre Jordan. Probably with less defense.

ETA: I had to re-read some of your trade ideas in the trade thread. It's hurrible, hurrible, hurrible. You are a weak trade hoe for the Warriors. You just do not understand the value of the #2 pick. I understand how they are related as well as free agents. I'm willing to wait until the draft combine to get a better idea of where the Warriors and the NBA are afterwards.

[ShayDee]

Wiseman averaged 23.0 mpg at Memphis. He had 2.9 fouls per 40. I can see him getting into foul trouble if other bigs like Joel Embiid decide to take it to his punk ass.

Onyeka 3.5 fouls per 40, he's bad, Okoro 3.5 fouls, yuck, Vassell 2.7 , Edwards 2.6, Deni 3.4, Lamelo 3.0 Precious 3.1, Jalen Smith 3.0, Oturu 3.2, Patrick Williams 2.9, Saddiq Bey 2.9, etc etc etc etc.

Bro please find another argument. What basis are you using this as a knock but ignore every single other prospect? You going to doubt they won't foul out too?

The other argument is these guys played a whole year in college. They didn't quit like the quitter Wiseman. Wiseman couldn't get past the adversity of him being punished for a weird interpretation of the rules by NCAA and just gave up.

You also conveniently leave out how I put Joel Embiid, with comparable measurements to Wiseman, to make an example of punkass Wiseman. Your argument is a non-sequitur.

The foul argument is pointless, try again. it's just really really stupid. You speak as if he was having above 3 + fouls. Gobert is averaging 3.5 fouls per 40. Ok he sucks now right? Bro just say you hate Wiseman it's fine

[ShayDee]

Wiseman averaged 23.0 mpg at Memphis. He had 2.9 fouls per 40. I can see him getting into foul trouble if other bigs like Joel Embiid decide to take it to his punk ass.

Onyeka 3.5 fouls per 40, he's bad, Okoro 3.5 fouls, yuck, Vassell 2.7 , Edwards 2.6, Deni 3.4, Lamelo 3.0 Precious 3.1, Jalen Smith 3.0, Oturu 3.2, Patrick Williams 2.9, Saddiq Bey 2.9, etc etc etc etc.

Bro please find another argument. What basis are you using this as a knock but ignore every single other prospect? You going to doubt they won't foul out too?

The other argument is these guys played a whole year in college. They didn't quit like the quitter Wiseman. Wiseman couldn't get past the adversity of him being punished for a weird interpretation of the rules by NCAA and just gave up.

You also conveniently leave out how I put Joel Embiid, with comparable measurements to Wiseman, to make an example of punkass Wiseman. Your argument is a non-sequitur.

What does Embidd have to do with this? Wiseman will foul out guarding him? And the other prospects wont? Or are you bringing up that Embiid had 5.8 fouls per 40 in college? I don't understand where you getting at here? Which rookie will not foul out guarding Embiid?

Also he is a quitter? If you were in his position what will you do? Pay up and play? The kid has had a clean record since high school? Or you wanna use he taking money as a knock? How much money did Zion collect before going to Duke?

Bro try again

[cdubbz]

TNT had a 7min segment with Wiseman, Edwards, & Toppin. It’s on YouTube — nothing too special but cool to watch.

[jason bourne]

What does Embidd have to do with this? Wiseman will foul out guarding him? And the other prospects wont? Or are you bringing up that Embiid had 5.8 fouls per 40 in college? I don't understand where you getting at here? Which rookie will not foul out guarding Embiid?

Also he is a quitter? If you were in his position what will you do? Pay up and play? The kid has had a clean record since high school? Or you wanna use he taking money as a knock? How much money did Zion collect before going to Duke?

Bro try again

I'm saying your bit and punkass James Wiseman will foul out if he tried to guard All-Star Joel Embiid. He's not that great defensively and doesn't have a shot while Joel Embiid has it all (second team All-Defense). Most people would understand this.

And forget about those others as it doesn't make any sense.

C'mon this is for a huge payday during the NBA draft. Yes, I would get a loan from family or find a part-time job to pay for the fines. Wiseman is too stupid to figure this out. It shows he's dumb asf and a a quitter.

Let's see how Wiseman does in the NBA draft workouts. I hope there is some kind of combine measurements, too. I'd love to see Wiseman run up and down court and pull up for a jumper. Or get guarded by someone and get his shot off in a professional workout. He missed the rest of the season unlike his peers, so may be huffin' and puffin' and out of shape.

[ShayDee]

What does Embidd have to do with this? Wiseman will foul out guarding him? And the other prospects wont? Or are you bringing up that Embiid had 5.8 fouls per 40 in college? I don't understand where you getting at here? Which rookie will not foul out guarding Embiid?

Also he is a quitter? If you were in his position what will you do? Pay up and play? The kid has had a clean record since high school? Or you wanna use he taking money as a knock? How much money did Zion collect before going to Duke?

Bro try again

I'm saying your bit and punkass James Wiseman will foul out if he tried to guard All-Star Joel Embiid. He's not that great defensively and doesn't have a shot while Joel Embiid has it all (second team All-Defense). Most people would understand this.

And forget about those others as it doesn't make any sense.

C'mon this is for a huge payday during the NBA draft. Yes, I would get a loan from family or find a part-time job to pay for the fines. Wiseman is too stupid to figure this out. It shows he's dumb asf and a a quitter.

Let's see how Wiseman does in the NBA draft workouts. I hope there is some kind of combine measurements, too. I'd love to see Wiseman run up and down court and pull up for a jumper. Or get guarded by someone and get his shot off in a professional workout. He missed the rest of the season unlike his peers, so may be huffin' and puffin' and out of shape.

But if Wiseman will foul out by your logic, every single other rookie will as well no? Do you want a rookie or not? What is the point if using the foul out argument when there are others that have higher numbers than him and will foul out guarding Embiid or not?

Bro it's impossible to reason with you when you keep using this argument and disregarding every single other prospects numbers or if they will foul out or not. You keep acting like a crybaby/whiner/ whatever. Why you taking like this bro lol.

And no he ain't dumb as you think he is, He is actually one of the smartest player in the draft. In terms of pure intelligence and IQ, not sure about basketball smarts but neither is 70% of prospects have low BBIQ or questionable/effort issues. Scouts and everyone say he is very smart and extremely coachable. Less of a risk than the other 2 top prospects in this draft that have effort issues

[Mylie10]

Wow

[Mylie10]

[jason bourne]

And no he ain't dumb as you think he is, He is actually one of the smartest player in the draft. In terms of pure intelligence and IQ, not sure about basketball smarts but neither is 70% of prospects have low BBIQ or questionable/effort issues. Scouts and everyone say he is very smart and extremely coachable. Less of a risk than the other 2 top prospects in this draft that have effort issues

I said my piece on Wiseman vs Embiid.

Now, you said a lot about Wiseman's IQ. I think both his BBIQ and IQ are related.

Still, I don't even know where you get ...

"He is actually one of the smartest player in the draft. In terms of pure intelligence and IQ, not sure about basketball smarts but neither is 70% of prospects have low BBIQ or questionable/effort issues. Scouts and everyone say he is very smart and extremely coachable. Less of a risk than the other 2 top prospects in this draft that have effort issues."

Link?

[cdubbz]

I do like LaMelo Ball's game a lot, but didn't say I like LaMelo for the Warriors. There would be question as to his fit here as he would want to be the ball dominant PG. Instead, I think he's a way to get Ben Simmons as PF, point forward, and 1st team All-Defense. Simmons would also be a threat to score inside.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/2020-nba-free-agency-sixers-glenn-robinson-alec-burks-raul-neto-kyle-oquinn-ryan-broekhoff

Anyway, the above is what the Elton Brand keeps saying -- watch his video inside -- the discussion for a trade is for a different thread. BTW, I'd love to get GRob III back which is also a discussion for a different thread, too.

I’m thinking Lamelo is great for grabbing us someone like Simmons as well.

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

Everyone is split on the expectation of Wiseman.

Here's two groups:

Group #1: What he brings to the table currently (e.g., shot-blocking, rebounding, defense, and rim-running) should be enough for the Warriors to remain competitive from a situational frontcourt standpoint. They don't see him as anything special and don't think he won't further improve or advance his game, and that's okay since Warrior's motion offense is more suitable for guards and undersized 4s and 5s to space the floor, anyways.

Group #2: Believe he'll groom into a perennial Allstar on the level of Chris Bosh, Anthony Davis, and/or even Embiid if he has a solid work ethic and intangibles to be great. No matter what, he'll be the face of the franchise and he'll be integrated into their offensive schemes where they see fit.

Here are some highlight/mix of both his offensive and defensive skills below. He's done a few nice things, but is far from being a finished product (AKA a project):

Wiseman's offense:

Watch on YouTube

All his points comes from transition rim-running dunks and layups, pick-n-roll, a few mid-range and a couple 3 pointers -- None of which was initiated by him. I was hoping to see if he had a face-up games or back-to-the-basket moves, but didn't showcase any at all. Just from this and other videos, he's just your typical 7-ft, athletic big who lacks any kind of offensive skills. Nothing special, but doesn't mean he can't be useful for a team looking for someone like him.

Wiseman's defense:

Watch on YouTube

If you watch the video on defense, he clearly can't defend the perimeter or just isn't a perimeter-oriented player at 7'1". You'd have to play enough AAU leagues to develop those skills at a young age (KD and AD being prime examples of playing guard in their AAU days and had a big growth spurt to play either a big man's game or play perimeter-oriented bball). And he got burnt a couple times on the block where someone who can handle the ball and shoot over him to make that bucket.

[ShayDee]

And no he ain't dumb as you think he is, He is actually one of the smartest player in the draft. In terms of pure intelligence and IQ, not sure about basketball smarts but neither is 70% of prospects have low BBIQ or questionable/effort issues. Scouts and everyone say he is very smart and extremely coachable. Less of a risk than the other 2 top prospects in this draft that have effort issues

I said my piece on Wiseman vs Embiid.

Now, you said a lot about Wiseman's IQ. I think both his BBIQ and IQ are related.

Still, I don't even know where you get ...

"He is actually one of the smartest player in the draft. In terms of pure intelligence and IQ, not sure about basketball smarts but neither is 70% of prospects have low BBIQ or questionable/effort issues. Scouts and everyone say he is very smart and extremely coachable. Less of a risk than the other 2 top prospects in this draft that have effort issues."

Link?

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

High-character person who works hard on and off the court. He’s intelligent, too; These are positive personality traits that could aid his development.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/andrew-byrne/light-years/e/77556140 From at around 26:45 Form Sam Vecenie at Athletic

From What I've been told, James is more able to implement what coaches tell him to a functional capacity that works on the court. He's super fcking smart. A) had a 3.8 GPA in his semester at Memphis, like very very smart guy, very intelligent human being, definitely listens to coaches, can take coaching and implement it. I hear better reports about his work ethic and ability to implement coaching better than I hear about Ayton but Ayton has more natural skill.

He then mentions Damian Jones but that's not the topic and talent level are different from both players anyways. He also mentions that there is no player in this Draft you can take to justify passing on Wiseman. Said the top 3 guys are Edwards, Ball and Wiseman(like I've been saying).

[ShayDee]

Read on Twitter

No Wiseman, Edwards, Saddiq Bey, Vassell, Okongwu, Williams, Toppin, Nesmith, Anthony, Maxey

[whatisacenter]

Read on Twitter

No Wiseman, Edwards, Saddiq Bey, Vassell, Okongwu, Williams, Haliburton, Toppin, Nesmith, Anthony, Maxey

Well crap!

[ChuckDurn]

Pretty sure I know what this is in response to, and assuming so..... I’ll simply say that what he’s lacking in quality he’s trying to make up for in volume.

[jason bourne]

And no he ain't dumb as you think he is, He is actually one of the smartest player in the draft. In terms of pure intelligence and IQ, not sure about basketball smarts but neither is 70% of prospects have low BBIQ or questionable/effort issues. Scouts and everyone say he is very smart and extremely coachable. Less of a risk than the other 2 top prospects in this draft that have effort issues

I said my piece on Wiseman vs Embiid.

Now, you said a lot about Wiseman's IQ. I think both his BBIQ and IQ are related.

Still, I don't even know where you get ...

"He is actually one of the smartest player in the draft. In terms of pure intelligence and IQ, not sure about basketball smarts but neither is 70% of prospects have low BBIQ or questionable/effort issues. Scouts and everyone say he is very smart and extremely coachable. Less of a risk than the other 2 top prospects in this draft that have effort issues."

Link?

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

High-character person who works hard on and off the court. He’s intelligent, too; These are positive personality traits that could aid his development.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/andrew-byrne/light-years/e/77556140 From at around 26:45 Form Sam Vecenie at Athletic

From What I've been told, James is more able to implement what coaches tell him to a functional capacity that works on the court. He's super fcking smart. A) had a 3.8 GPA in his semester at Memphis, like very very smart guy, very intelligent human being, definitely listens to coaches, can take coaching and implement it. I hear better reports about his work ethic and ability to implement coaching better than I hear about Ayton but Ayton has more natural skill.

He then mentions Damian Jones but that's not the topic and talent level are different from both players anyways. He also mentions that there is no player in this Draft you can take to justify passing on Wiseman. Said the top 3 guys are Edwards, Ball and Wiseman(like I've been saying).

Okay. However, his weaknesses seem to outweigh his strengths, so he appears to have fallen lower than #3.

Read on Twitter

No Wiseman, Edwards, Saddiq Bey, Vassell, Okongwu, Williams, Toppin, Nesmith, Anthony, Maxey

This is news. We'll have to see how it plays out. The guys who participate may move up a skosh. It shouldn't affect things drastically, but could hurt some who don't participate as players who do may move ahead of them. Not a given, but who knows in a weak draft?

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

Read on Twitter

No Wiseman, Edwards, Saddiq Bey, Vassell, Okongwu, Williams, Toppin, Nesmith, Anthony, Maxey

Think it’s a smart move by Wiseman to not enter the NBA Combine so his draft ranking can remain unchanged or impact it (Or the ‘Rona concerns). But, definitely red flags as it continues to drive the narrative that there are still questions about his physical attributes and skillset.

If he can’t attend, at least get the measurements at home or from his personal trainer?

Guess he wants to keep it a secret for whichever team drafts him..

[northoakland510]

What does Embidd have to do with this? Wiseman will foul out guarding him? And the other prospects wont? Or are you bringing up that Embiid had 5.8 fouls per 40 in college? I don't understand where you getting at here? Which rookie will not foul out guarding Embiid?

Also he is a quitter? If you were in his position what will you do? Pay up and play? The kid has had a clean record since high school? Or you wanna use he taking money as a knock? How much money did Zion collect before going to Duke?

Bro try again

I'm saying your bit and punkass James Wiseman will foul out if he tried to guard All-Star Joel Embiid. He's not that great defensively and doesn't have a shot while Joel Embiid has it all (second team All-Defense). Most people would understand this.

And forget about those others as it doesn't make any sense.

C'mon this is for a huge payday during the NBA draft. Yes, I would get a loan from family or find a part-time job to pay for the fines. Wiseman is too stupid to figure this out. It shows he's dumb asf and a a quitter.

Let's see how Wiseman does in the NBA draft workouts. I hope there is some kind of combine measurements, too. I'd love to see Wiseman run up and down court and pull up for a jumper. Or get guarded by someone and get his shot off in a professional workout. He missed the rest of the season unlike his peers, so may be huffin' and puffin' and out of shape.

Dang what Wiseman do to you?