Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[DevinVassell]

Nothing podcast. Turner still talking about potential while obviously ignoring the multitude of Kumingas flaws. Groundbreaking. A physical specimen who won't/can't average even four rebounds and is still shooting under 70% from the line after 4 years. Please. The amount of times I've shaken my head watching Kuminga run around like a headless chicken is uncountable.

Give me ten team first Moses Moodys over one Kuminga any day. Still holding the team, training camp and every other potential incoming player hostage late into the season. What a fkn around.

[Old_Blue]

Nothing podcast. Turner still talking about potential while obviously ignoring the multitude of Kumingas flaws. Groundbreaking. A physical specimen who won't/can't average even four rebounds and is still shooting under 70% from the line after 4 years. Please. The amount of times I've shaken my head watching Kuminga run around like a headless chicken is uncountable.

Give me ten team first Moses Moodys over one Kuminga any day. Still holding the team, training camp and every other potential incoming player hostage late into the season. What a fkn around.

The whole thing should be made into a movie. Unfortunately, the name Joker: Folie à Deux is already taken.

[bay2hk]

People keep saying JK taking the QO is bad for the Warriors. It’s not because the pressure will be on JK to perform. If he doesn’t do what warriors ask i.e. defend, rebound and pass the ball then he will not get PT.

JK taking the QO is the best case scenario for the Warriors. If he doesn’t perform then he can go where-ever he wants next offseason. Do not give JK that extra year.

[Old_Blue]

People keep saying JK taking the QO is bad for the Warriors. It’s not because the pressure will be on JK to perform. If he doesn’t do what warriors ask i.e. defend, rebound and pass the ball then he will not get PT.

JK taking the QO is the best case scenario for the Warriors. If he doesn’t perform then he can go where-ever he wants next offseason. Do not give JK that extra year.

THIS. You get him cheap for one last year - a big plus if he puts in the effort. If he doesn't put in the effort, then he only hurts his own future value. At the end of the year, you still hold his Bird Rights. Once he's gone, you can fill his salary slot with the full MLE. The Dubs hold all the cards.

[statsman]

I wonder how low Kuminga would go to get off the Warriors? 2-yr on the NTMLE? Obviously, the Warriors would match a RFA offer sheet at that amount in a second.

But what about a S&T at that amount for a young or rotation player (making no more than $7M) and a draft pick? I know, extreme long-shot, but hey, nothing so far has produced a resolution.

[AirP.]

You can try to frame this as positively as you like. If it was all roses, Kuminga and his agent would have jumped at the offer. Instead, they're eating FAFO sandwiches for lunch.

The agent can't jump for anything, he can only advise his client. He said he had to educate his client on Golden State's financial situation, the aprons and what they could get to allow Horford to sign in GS. I think the agent has a much better grasp of his client's worth and the team's situation then Kuminga does and is making the best of a bad situation which is his job.

You mean this agent?

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/p243a8/biggest_loser_of_free_agency_this_year_goes_to/

The same Aaron Turner who was the agent for Victor Oladipo when that player rejected a 4 year / $113 million offer from the Pacers, only to then be traded to the Rockets - where Oladipo then rejected a 2 year / $45 million extension - only to ultimately settle for a 1 year veteran minimum deal? Are we sensing a pattern here?

Why did Oladipo reject the contract? Because he was trying to get to free agency to sign with Miami (this was a storyline when he was in Oklahoma City after he got his 1st extension of 4 years 80 mil). Indiana tried to cut their losses since he wasn't resigning with them and traded him to Houston who thought they might be able to sign him but he wouldn't and got moved at the deadline to Miami. Everything worked for Oladipo except that the major surgery he had while in Indiana was botched and Oladipo had some "pain" but thought it was normal from that surgery... It was not and he had another major injury before signing a new big contract in Miami. Oladipo valued having "options" over money, he had already gotten paid from the 4 year 20 mil per that Oklahoma City gave him so he was good waiting to get where he wanted to go.

You act as if the agent can force a player to take the option to of taking the safe money, they can not. Agents can only advise their clients what their options are and what is the best option. You also have to remember, the agents want the players to take the safe money since they get their own cut from that money. It can hurt the agent's pockets if a player risks the safe money to try to get themselves to a place they desire.

[Twinkie defense]

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Assuming there are no additional offers, which one should Kuminga take? Which one does he take? Which one do the Warriors hope he takes?

Will take: 3yr/$75 mil with team option - most guaranteed money, money talks. All the other nonsense about being respected, playing your game, not being held back, starting, etc. is BS when the rubber hits the road.

Should take: 2yr/$45 mil with team option and waived no-trade clause - this balances Kuminga's goals of immediate money and a quick path to unrestricted free agency, and it allows him to put together some game tape in a different scheme for a team that more wants him. If Kuminga really believes he's a star in the making and the Warriors have been holding him back, this is the deal he should take.

Warriors want: 2yr/$45 mil with team option and waived no-trade clause - gives Warriors a low-risk, tradeable, short-term salary slot.

Neither should want the QO but I think the QO would be worse for Kuminga than the Warriors because it will severely limit Kuminga's long-term earnings.

[Twinkie defense]

It won’t be good to have him on the team if he ends up taking the QO. Cancer brewing. Just give him the PO Jokic and Giannis ain’t coming here anyways

I won't assume that Kuminga will be a cancer on the QO but if he was that hurts him more than the Warriors - Warriors have a strong, veteran locker room that is not going to be derailed by a middling player who struggles just to get on the court. But it would make Kuminga look very bad to any teams he hopes might offer him a big contract.

[Twinkie defense]

Go back to the 2/45 and fully guarantee the 2nd season. No team or player option. I am not sure why the Warriors didn't offer this.

Lacob has something he thinks he can do that prevents that offer, but for the life of me I can't come up with a reasonable idea.

It removes the ability to just use him as an expiring contract to a team wanting to shed salary. This is a lesser value move but it gives GS more options when trying to make their team better with Curry.

After saying that, why wasn't there any "good" teams asking for a S&T for Kuminga? I'm sure there's a number of "good" teams that could stack salaries they'd be fine giving up if they really believed in Kuminga's future. As of this summer only teams who are desperate to take a chance on Kuminga talked trades with GS. Without that happening, I think him being a sizable expiring contract might be huge for GS.

Yep that is not something Warriors can just give away with no cost, it lessons the value of the contract to the Warriors including adding more risk.

[Twinkie defense]

It won’t be good to have him on the team if he ends up taking the QO. Cancer brewing. Just give him the PO Jokic and Giannis ain’t coming here anyways

It's the Giannis and Jokic thing that has really been driving me nuts. Holding all your ammo for this slim chance of something several years down the road when Steph is retiring and Giannis and Jokic are entering their mid 30s is utter insanity. Trade your damn picks (and other players if needed) for legit guys that can help Steph NOW. If you're getting really good, young players back, you can still trade them back for picks later if you need to. Now 4 first-rounders for Markkanen would not have been a good deal. But a few trades like 2 FRP for Murphy or Avdija or something would be.

It's not holding your ammo, it's trying to keep competitive now while maintaining flexibility in two years.

[Twinkie defense]

How are we playing it to perfection when JK still isn't signed and Turner just got us to budge?

Well the timing doesn't matter much, by rule Kuminga has until Oct. 1 and the Warriors already have their FA's lined up anyway.

In terms of contract offers I don't think it's much of a budge. I think the Warriors put together an alternative to the QO that they thought gives Kuminga a lot of what he wants - more up-front money than either the Kings or Suns were offering, and a quick path to unrestricted free agency.

Rather than budging, Warriors are making tweaks to that original offer to give Kuminga some options based on what's more important to him - more total guaranteed money? Faster path to free agency? I wouldn't call 3 years at $18 mil per a budge. Guaranteeing two years at over $20 mil, with a third year TO, rather than the 1+1, maybe that's somewhat of a budge - a length of contract budge rather than an AAV budge. Basically the same annual money but one more guaranteed year...

[Twinkie defense]

I'm resigned to the likely outcome that the Warriors will overpay Kuminga more $$/yr than he is worth. The only realistic alternative is the QO, and I don't think either party wants that.

Warriors learned their lesson with Jordan Poole. They are not gonna put themselves in a position where they have to attach assets to dump a contract.

[whatisacenter]

I think the Warriors will give him a PO on the 3/75 offer or a NTC on the original 2 year deal or something similar to those two deals.

[whatisacenter]

I'm not sure why fans are getting their knickers in a knot over this....Jk and Turner have been willing to accept a contract that will keep the team under the second apron from the jump. They just want something in return and I think they two sides get a deal done where JK has the option on the back end.

“Willing to accept”? Is there a bunch of other offers that they’re passing on that I’m not aware of? They’re “willing to accept” the best offer? How generous of them lol.

They keep making it like they are sacrificing by taking less they deserve in money(even though no one offered more) and role (even though the teams offering that can’t get him without help)

Well, they are negotiating, and even though the Warriors have improved their initial offer, JK's camp hasn't accepted yet.

I'm not sure why fans are getting their knickers in a knot over this....Jk and Turner have been willing to accept a contract that will keep the team under the second apron from the jump. They just want something in return and I think they two sides get a deal done where JK has the option on the back end.

I don't get why JK Stans are getting their knickers in a knot over the reaction to an unlikable media tour

But seriously, I agree though that a deal likely gets done. I think Turner/JK did a good job in negotiations up until today, this is bringing them negative pressure from the Warrior fanbase, whether you agree or not. The interview basically sounds reasonable if you're a huge JK fan, if you see some serious flaws in JK's game/effort then the interview came off poorly.

I am a fan in a sea of haters!

I can see why fans wouldn't like what Turner is doing but I don't see any downside to it. Either the Warriors improve on their current offers or he is likely to sign the QO which sucks for both sides. And the fans who are talking themselves into thinking JK on the QO is a good the for GS are crazy, IMO.

[cpower]

We should really withdraw all other options just leave the 1+1 or the QO. It's bad to let this Aaron guy clown us this way

[Old_Blue]

We should really withdraw all other options just leave the 1+1 or the QO. It's bad to let this Aaron guy clown us this way

Just the opposite. Keep it going. At this point, it's like watching a kid throwing a ridiculous public tantrum who is just now realizing that everyone around him has gone from annoyed to amused. All that's left is tears. Honestly, I'm embarrassed for both Kuminga and his agent.

[HiRez]

It won’t be good to have him on the team if he ends up taking the QO. Cancer brewing. Just give him the PO Jokic and Giannis ain’t coming here anyways

It's the Giannis and Jokic thing that has really been driving me nuts. Holding all your ammo for this slim chance of something several years down the road when Steph is retiring and Giannis and Jokic are entering their mid 30s is utter insanity. Trade your damn picks (and other players if needed) for legit guys that can help Steph NOW. If you're getting really good, young players back, you can still trade them back for picks later if you need to. Now 4 first-rounders for Markkanen would not have been a good deal. But a few trades like 2 FRP for Murphy or Avdija or something would be.

It's not holding your ammo, it's trying to keep competitive now while maintaining flexibility in two years.

I don't understand the difference. That IS holding your ammo. Yes, they may have reasons for it, but they have assets they're unwilling to move for immediate help for Steph, that's undeniable. What you just described is basically "two timelines" which has utterly failed so far. I guess you can argue about whether they've been "competitive" or not, I say barely, as they had to burn all their oil just to squeak into the play-in tourney on the final day or two (which I believe eventually led to Steph's injury), barely got past Houston, and then I think they might've been able to beat the Wolves, but that's probably as far as they go, don't think they beat OKC especially with so many old legs against so many young ones.

Anyway, my point is that if you give up good assets for really good young players, they can help right now AND in the future you can either build around them, trade them for someone else, or trade them back for picks (which is actually the flexibility you're talking about). It's like you spent a lot of money you had saved on a bunch of pinball machines, but that money's not really gone, as you can resell them and recoup most of the money even if you played them a while. Or trade them for cars or medical bills or something else you need.

[CS707]

I think the Warriors will give him a PO on the 3/75 offer or a NTC on the original 2 year deal or something similar to those two deals.

Why would they give him a NTC on a bigger deal rather than just letting him play on the QO?

[whatisacenter]

I think the Warriors will give him a PO on the 3/75 offer or a NTC on the original 2 year deal or something similar to those two deals.

Why would they give him a NTC on a bigger deal rather than just letting him play on the QO?

So they could have a larger expiring contract as a trade chip.

[CS707]

I think the Warriors will give him a PO on the 3/75 offer or a NTC on the original 2 year deal or something similar to those two deals.

Why would they give him a NTC on a bigger deal rather than just letting him play on the QO?

So they could have a larger expiring contract as a trade chip.

With a no trade clause?