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Onus wrote:I think the issue is that Kerr doesn't see Moses as a guard or a 4. So he's strictly a 3, so he has to compete with Wiggins, Klay, JK, GP2 for minutes at a single position.

A coach that is willing to play 3 or 4 guards at a time doesn’t really believe in positions.

SpreeChokeJob wrote:

Onus wrote:I think the issue is that Kerr doesn't see Moses as a guard or a 4. So he's strictly a 3, so he has to compete with Wiggins, Klay, JK, GP2 for minutes at a single position.

A coach that is willing to play 3 or 4 guards at a time doesn’t really believe in positions.

He just doesn't care about the forward position because he doesn't value defense and rebounding and thinks you can just put in more effort to overcome those skills.

Well hopefully Moses gets playing time now that Wiggins is out tonight

Onus wrote:

SpreeChokeJob wrote:

Onus wrote:I think the issue is that Kerr doesn't see Moses as a guard or a 4. So he's strictly a 3, so he has to compete with Wiggins, Klay, JK, GP2 for minutes at a single position.

A coach that is willing to play 3 or 4 guards at a time doesn’t really believe in positions.

He just doesn't care about the forward position because he doesn't value defense and rebounding and thinks you can just put in more effort to overcome those skills.

That’s why he’s a one trick pony who doesn’t understand his trick is already scouted out. He’s the Jordan Poole of coaches. Hopefully the results won’t be the same after he secured his bag.

Onus wrote:Well hopefully Moses gets playing time now that Wiggins is out tonight

If CP3 is back he might not.

EvanZ wrote:

Onus wrote:Well hopefully Moses gets playing time now that Wiggins is out tonight

If CP3 is back he might not.

cp3 is back. I'm guessing his minutes from from Q and Podz. I doubt he takes minutes from klay. SMH

Kerr thinks he doesn't deserve rotation minutes.

He was lost a lot and made a few boneheaded decisions against the Wizards. But thats the type of stuff that gets cleaned up with more minutes and experience. Even with the few mistakes, he's doing some really good stuff out there that makes it quite the head-scratcher that he's not in the mix. Personally I think he should get backup PF minutes next to Loon or Trayce, essentially taking the Saric minutes. Thats not to say Saric won't have moments he's needed now or in playoffs, but I'd have Moody ahead of him currently. Also think he should get some Klay minutes. Klay off the bench was a nice first step, but he's still getting the same amount of minutes... should be down in the low 20s.

Moody is going to be in this league a long time..really reminds me of an upgraded danny green.

ShootersShoot wrote:Moody is going to be in this league a long time..really reminds me of an upgraded danny green.

Agree in terms of longevity and impact. I always have though of sort of a slower footed Wes Mathews that maybe shifts up from SF to PF a bit more (Wes has played PF but shifts to SG more easily with his quicker feet). Impacts the game all over without being great at anything, but good enough scorer to get you 15+ ppg if needed.

TB wrote:

ShootersShoot wrote:Moody is going to be in this league a long time..really reminds me of an upgraded danny green.

Agree in terms of longevity and impact. I always have though of sort of a slower footed Wes Mathews that maybe shifts up from SF to PF a bit more (Wes has played PF but shifts to SG more easily with his quicker feet). Impacts the game all over without being great at anything, but good enough scorer to get you 15+ ppg if needed.

Wes before his injuries is a good comparison. Nice one.

TB wrote:

ShootersShoot wrote:Moody is going to be in this league a long time..really reminds me of an upgraded danny green.

Agree in terms of longevity and impact. I always have though of sort of a slower footed Wes Mathews that maybe shifts up from SF to PF a bit more (Wes has played PF but shifts to SG more easily with his quicker feet). Impacts the game all over without being great at anything, but good enough scorer to get you 15+ ppg if needed.

Yeah I always liked a mix of Wes Matthews/Kris Middleton as a comp

Moses' biggest issue right now is his shooting. His game doesn't work if he's an average 3 point shooter. There's no reason he can't/shouldn't be though - he's shown the ability to shoot, and when he's gotten consistent minutes he's shot well. When he started seeing minutes earlier in the season he was hitting 38%+

This is entirely on Kerr. Middleton was ass his rookie year and couldn't hit anything - he got 30 mpg starting in his sophomore year.

You don't develop players like him - who needs a system - with random lineups and severe minutes restrictions. Of all the Kerr **** over the last 10 years, his absolute wasting of Moody's potential is probably the worst

It's interesting to note Wes Matthews was 23 in his rookie season. Moses doesn't turn 22 until May. We don't even see "prime" Moody for another 4-5 years probably.

People are SO invested in saying "I told you so" about their NBA draft evaluations.

Apparently they see something that the coaches, who study tape and see players almost every day in practice, doesn't see.

The reason he's not taking minutes from Klay is that he's not the shooter Klay is, in percentages or the way teams defend Klay vs. him.

Teams sell out on Klay so he gets some easy baskets for other players, like last night, Wizards let Kuminga go to the rim uncontested a couple of times as he crossed with Klay and defenders tried to stay attached to Klay.

Teams don't do that with Moody, who gets a lot of wide open looks. Despite that, he's around 36% on low shot attempt volume from 3, though more this season than his previous seasons.

If he had defensive impact like GP2, then his shooting wouldn't be as critical.

Of if he had an overall floor game like Podz, he'd get more minutes but he doesn't shoot as well as Podz and doesn't get rebounds or assists. Or necessarily defend better despite greater wingspan and length and experience.

Remember, Podz wasn't getting a lot of minutes at the start of this season either. But he impacted games and made Kerr give him more minutes.

Moody just hasn't had such minutes.

Jester_ wrote:

TB wrote:

ShootersShoot wrote:Moody is going to be in this league a long time..really reminds me of an upgraded danny green.

Agree in terms of longevity and impact. I always have though of sort of a slower footed Wes Mathews that maybe shifts up from SF to PF a bit more (Wes has played PF but shifts to SG more easily with his quicker feet). Impacts the game all over without being great at anything, but good enough scorer to get you 15+ ppg if needed.

Yeah I always liked a mix of Wes Matthews/Kris Middleton as a comp

Moses' biggest issue right now is his shooting. His game doesn't work if he's an average 3 point shooter. There's no reason he can't/shouldn't be though - he's shown the ability to shoot, and when he's gotten consistent minutes he's shot well. When he started seeing minutes earlier in the season he was hitting 38%+

This is entirely on Kerr. Middleton was ass his rookie year and couldn't hit anything - he got 30 mpg starting in his sophomore year.

You don't develop players like him - who needs a system - with random lineups and severe minutes restrictions. Of all the Kerr **** over the last 10 years, his absolute wasting of Moody's potential is probably the worst

It would be a miracle if he could get anywhere as good as Middleton. I don't think that's a good comp. Moody isn't going to create shots like him, totally different skillsets.

One interesting thing is that Moses plays a lot with Dario (only Steph has more minutes with Moody than Dario). So a lot of Moody minutes are small ball next to Dario, or at SF with Kuminga/Dario as a pretty brutal defensive front court. And the Steph minutes are mostly when Steph/Klay/Wiggins/Loon were tanking our offense early in the year.

When you take Dario out of the equation and pair Moses with Trayce, they have over 110 minutes together at a +13 net rating. 11 of those minutes were also with Gui Santos in garbage time, so if you take those out they are right around 100 minutes with a +17 rating. Now, over half of those are also with Kuminga, thus Moody playing the SF spot. Those have still been positive, but when Kuminga isn't in and Moody plays the PF spot next to Trayce its a ridiculous +40 in a small sample size.

My point being, I would love to see a backup unit of CP3/GP2/Klay/Moody/Trayce with Loon/Dario being the odd men out more often than Moody/Trayce being the odd men out. Embrace small ball the correct way

wco81 wrote:People are SO invested in saying "I told you so" about their NBA draft evaluations.

Apparently they see something that the coaches, who study tape and see players almost every day in practice, doesn't see.

The reason he's not taking minutes from Klay is that he's not the shooter Klay is, in percentages or the way teams defend Klay vs. him.

Teams sell out on Klay so he gets some easy baskets for other players, like last night, Wizards let Kuminga go to the rim uncontested a couple of times as he crossed with Klay and defenders tried to stay attached to Klay.

Teams don't do that with Moody, who gets a lot of wide open looks. Despite that, he's around 36% on low shot attempt volume from 3, though more this season than his previous seasons.

If he had defensive impact like GP2, then his shooting wouldn't be as critical.

Of if he had an overall floor game like Podz, he'd get more minutes but he doesn't shoot as well as Podz and doesn't get rebounds or assists. Or necessarily defend better despite greater wingspan and length and experience.

Remember, Podz wasn't getting a lot of minutes at the start of this season either. But he impacted games and made Kerr give him more minutes.

Moody just hasn't had such minutes.

Moody actually has the 3rd most tightly contested 3PT shots on the team, which is saying something considering how little he plays.

ShootersShoot wrote:

Jester_ wrote:

TB wrote:
Agree in terms of longevity and impact. I always have though of sort of a slower footed Wes Mathews that maybe shifts up from SF to PF a bit more (Wes has played PF but shifts to SG more easily with his quicker feet). Impacts the game all over without being great at anything, but good enough scorer to get you 15+ ppg if needed.

Yeah I always liked a mix of Wes Matthews/Kris Middleton as a comp

Moses' biggest issue right now is his shooting. His game doesn't work if he's an average 3 point shooter. There's no reason he can't/shouldn't be though - he's shown the ability to shoot, and when he's gotten consistent minutes he's shot well. When he started seeing minutes earlier in the season he was hitting 38%+

This is entirely on Kerr. Middleton was ass his rookie year and couldn't hit anything - he got 30 mpg starting in his sophomore year.

You don't develop players like him - who needs a system - with random lineups and severe minutes restrictions. Of all the Kerr **** over the last 10 years, his absolute wasting of Moody's potential is probably the worst

It would be a miracle if he could get anywhere as good as Middleton. I don't think that's a good comp. Moody isn't going to create shots like him, totally different skillsets.

You are comparing Kris Middleton of today, not Kris Middleton of ten years ago. When he came into the league he was almost exclusively a spot up shooter and didn't have the physical gifts Moody has. Their % of assisted shots were nearly identical first few years. Moses actually scores far more at the paint than Middleton did.

The difference is that Kris Middleton got more minutes in his rookie year as a second round pick than lottery-pick Moses Moody is getting in his 3rd year.

Who gives a promising prospect 15 mpg in their third year in the league? How can anyone justify this stupidity

Jester_ wrote:

ShootersShoot wrote:

Jester_ wrote:
Yeah I always liked a mix of Wes Matthews/Kris Middleton as a comp

Moses' biggest issue right now is his shooting. His game doesn't work if he's an average 3 point shooter. There's no reason he can't/shouldn't be though - he's shown the ability to shoot, and when he's gotten consistent minutes he's shot well. When he started seeing minutes earlier in the season he was hitting 38%+

This is entirely on Kerr. Middleton was ass his rookie year and couldn't hit anything - he got 30 mpg starting in his sophomore year.

You don't develop players like him - who needs a system - with random lineups and severe minutes restrictions. Of all the Kerr **** over the last 10 years, his absolute wasting of Moody's potential is probably the worst

It would be a miracle if he could get anywhere as good as Middleton. I don't think that's a good comp. Moody isn't going to create shots like him, totally different skillsets.

You are comparing Kris Middleton of today, not Kris Middleton of ten years ago. When he came into the league he was almost exclusively a spot up shooter and didn't have the physical gifts Moody has. Their % of assisted shots were nearly identical first few years. Moses actually scores far more at the paint than Middleton did.

The difference is that Kris Middleton got more minutes in his rookie year as a second round pick than lottery-pick Moses Moody is getting in his 3rd year.

Who gives a promising prospect 15 mpg in their third year in the league? How can anyone justify this stupidity

I just don't see Moody being a 18-20ppg and 4-5apg player. He fits the archetype for a 14-17ppg mainly spot up guy/cutter and not much of a playmaker. But if you think otherwise I'm not gonna try and change your mind.

Maybe more like Royce O'Neale.