Warriors trade Poole, Rollins, Baldwin Jr., 2027 #2, 2030 protected #1 to Wizards for Chris Paul

[CDM_Stats]

Sabonis is an all star player and a cornerstone of a top seeded team last season. Malone is a vastly superior player on both ends. Therefore he would perform better today. How can you not understand such a simple concept?

You're right, its extremely simple. Simple isn't good when you want to talk accuracy. Like, for example, its an extremely simple take to look at somewhat similar skillsets and equate them across timelines. Also its extremely simple to frame Sabonis as a winner when his career highlight is being a #3 seed eliminated in the first round by a 6 seed

But here's something that will blow simple minds too: Sabonis is better than Malone in today's game

This is some of the worst takes i have heard in a while man..Malone can lead his team to 55 wins ever year as a #1 option. Of course he is better than sabonis.

Do you like.. stop reading mid-sentence or something? This has been fun, I really feel like you're jarred here finding out that 80s/90s zoneless, midrange, post-up basketball is different than today

[ShootersShoot]

Big difference between "couldn't cut it" and "less impactful than one of the game's premier defenders/playmakers in an era where defensive versatility is key"

Maybe thats the problem. Your argument is TOO simple

Malone is a superior offensive force and a top flight defender/rebounder. Would I take that over elite defense and great passing but well below average scoring? 90% of the time yes. In what era can draymond be an mvp candidate? Would sabonis be a 2x mvp in the 90s? Such terrible understanding of basketball.

lol

What was Malone good at defensively, please? Details, if you can.

But oh wait.. 90% of the time you'd take Malone? Not 100? So you agree exactly with what I said earlier? Then why the **** are we still talking?

Because you act like it is a foregone conclusion draymond is superior to malone. And that no one can be succesful playing like malone. When a guy like zion exists. Cmon man.

[CDM_Stats]

Malone is a superior offensive force and a top flight defender/rebounder. Would I take that over elite defense and great passing but well below average scoring? 90% of the time yes. In what era can draymond be an mvp candidate? Would sabonis be a 2x mvp in the 90s? Such terrible understanding of basketball.

lol

What was Malone good at defensively, please? Details, if you can.

But oh wait.. 90% of the time you'd take Malone? Not 100? So you agree exactly with what I said earlier? Then why the **** are we still talking?

Because you act like it is a foregone conclusion draymond is superior to malone. When a guy like zion exists. Cmon man.

Am I? mind sharing a quote on that one real quick?

I said I'd take Draymond over Malone in certain situations.. but you know what? The more I think about it, the more I'd lean Draymond.. what Malone excelled at is pretty much throwaway stuff in today's game. Kinda like how Draymond would be throwaway in the 80s/90s. Weird how it works, but that is how it works

[ShootersShoot]

lol

What was Malone good at defensively, please? Details, if you can.

But oh wait.. 90% of the time you'd take Malone? Not 100? So you agree exactly with what I said earlier? Then why the **** are we still talking?

Because you act like it is a foregone conclusion draymond is superior to malone. When a guy like zion exists. Cmon man.

Am I? mind sharing a quote on that one real quick?

I said I'd take Draymond over Malone in certain situations.. but you know what? The more I think about it, the more I'd lean Draymond.. what Malone excelled at is pretty much throwaway stuff in today's game. Kinda like how Draymond would be throwaway in the 80s/90s. Weird how it works, but that is how it works

You literally said "malones type wouldnt be useful in the nba." So I bring up zion. Whats not to get?

[CDM_Stats]

Because you act like it is a foregone conclusion draymond is superior to malone. When a guy like zion exists. Cmon man.

Am I? mind sharing a quote on that one real quick?

I said I'd take Draymond over Malone in certain situations.. but you know what? The more I think about it, the more I'd lean Draymond.. what Malone excelled at is pretty much throwaway stuff in today's game. Kinda like how Draymond would be throwaway in the 80s/90s. Weird how it works, but that is how it works

You literally said malones type wouldnt be successful in the nba. So I bring up zion. Whats not to get?

Considering Zion's least efficient offensive year would be on par with Malone's best.. I dunno if thats a great comp. Nor would I want to look at Zion's success track record.. kinda hammers my point home about that style not being a legit winner in today's game? Anyways, is Zion still on the Pelicans? I know young winners are frequently the source of trade rumors.. right?

[ShootersShoot]

lol

What was Malone good at defensively, please? Details, if you can.

But oh wait.. 90% of the time you'd take Malone? Not 100? So you agree exactly with what I said earlier? Then why the **** are we still talking?

Because you act like it is a foregone conclusion draymond is superior to malone. When a guy like zion exists. Cmon man.

Am I? mind sharing a quote on that one real quick?

I said I'd take Draymond over Malone in certain situations.. but you know what? The more I think about it, the more I'd lean Draymond.. what Malone excelled at is pretty much throwaway stuff in today's game. Kinda like how Draymond would be throwaway in the 80s/90s. Weird how it works, but that is how it works

Eh..I think dramond would be even better in the 90s. Or at least just as good. Dude is a beast regardless of how our conversation is going. Ive always defended and loved his game.

[Upperclass]

This was a flatout weird and awful trade.

Bringing in a player who has competed head2head vs their core for as long as they have been in the league and making him ring chase and/or dealing him to a non-competing team(why would they deal him to a team they may face after he learns their system?), along with not asking him prior to the trade if he was open to the move, and then also having to learn an entirely new way to play the game offensively and defensively at 39/40.. just makes zero sense. If you bring him in the game and solely run PnR then that gives the defense plenty of opportunity to just lean on Curry and let CP3 score or dish to non or mediocre rim threats.

CP3 is still servicable but every defense thats tried to turn him into a scorer off the PNR the past few years has worn him out and hes gotten injured. He also isnt going to move around the court like Curry at this age..

A Curry/Paul/Klay lineup might be bottom 5 worst in the NBA defensively. Klay has never been able to play SF and will be even worse at it being older and slower. Alternatively, Klay will move to the bench for CP3? not likely.

Youre banking on a lower usage keeping CP3 healthy.. but if what usually happens.. does happen.. whats the pivot?

What is Draymonds role in a lineup with CP3? He can screen/pick, but every team in the league will trap or go over and give Draymond the run if he wants

Thing is..they are capped out whether they have JP, CP3 or neither. People don't realize they were ALWAYS going to have to move Poole when his contract kicked in. Punch or no punch. Noone is trading an asset for a 39/40 y/o Paul or they would have from the Suns, so basically you moved 20ppg Poole for..nothing. What's likely going to happen is that they will package CP3's expiring and Kuminga for..?

[ShootersShoot]

Am I? mind sharing a quote on that one real quick?

I said I'd take Draymond over Malone in certain situations.. but you know what? The more I think about it, the more I'd lean Draymond.. what Malone excelled at is pretty much throwaway stuff in today's game. Kinda like how Draymond would be throwaway in the 80s/90s. Weird how it works, but that is how it works

You literally said malones type wouldnt be successful in the nba. So I bring up zion. Whats not to get?

Considering Zion's least efficient offensive year would be on par with Malone's best.. I dunno if thats a great comp. Nor would I want to look at Zion's success track record.. kinda hammers my point home about that style not being a legit winner in today's game? Anyways, is Zion still on the Pelicans? I know young winners are frequently the source of trade rumors.. right?

Well, if zion could play more than 50 games a season..remember, malone was an ironman. A zion who can play 70 games every season while being a better defender/rebounder albeit less efficient? Still a pretty darn good player. Also remember 90s was less efficient overall. If malone or any player in the past played in this era, their games would be adjusted to todays playstyle. How much adjusted can be up for debate, but these guys are elite athletes so its definitely arguable they can adjust their playstyle.

[CDM_Stats]

Because you act like it is a foregone conclusion draymond is superior to malone. When a guy like zion exists. Cmon man.

Am I? mind sharing a quote on that one real quick?

I said I'd take Draymond over Malone in certain situations.. but you know what? The more I think about it, the more I'd lean Draymond.. what Malone excelled at is pretty much throwaway stuff in today's game. Kinda like how Draymond would be throwaway in the 80s/90s. Weird how it works, but that is how it works

Eh..I think dramond would be even better in the 90s. Or at least just as good. Dude is a beast regardless of how our conversation is going. Ive always defended and loved his game.

Maybe Anthony Mason? But Mase was a credible enough scorer and he flamed out quick after a couple hyped seasons in NYK. There just wasn't much room for PFs who couldnt score in the post those days. They lived there, both offensively and defensively.. the PFs with high assist totals were ones who could pass out of the post. Aside from Magic Johnson, there really wasn't a ton of the bigs running the offense from the top back then

Maybe he could succeed to levels close to where he is now... just like maybe Malone could. Its a very narrow road for both of them because those archetypes did/do not work when it comes to winning. Both would be nice to have in their respective fantasy scenarios, but there's a reason you didnt see Dray types in the finals then, and dont see Malone types in the finals now

[CDM_Stats]

You literally said malones type wouldnt be successful in the nba. So I bring up zion. Whats not to get?

Considering Zion's least efficient offensive year would be on par with Malone's best.. I dunno if thats a great comp. Nor would I want to look at Zion's success track record.. kinda hammers my point home about that style not being a legit winner in today's game? Anyways, is Zion still on the Pelicans? I know young winners are frequently the source of trade rumors.. right?

Well, if zion could play more than 50 games a season..remember, malone was an ironman. A zion who can play 70 games every season while being a better defender/rebounder albeit less efficient? Still a pretty darn good player. Also remember 90s was less efficient overall. If malone or any player in the past played in this era, their games would be adjusted to tpdays playstyle. Hpw much adjuated can be up for debate, butbthese guys are elite athletes so its definitely arguable they can adjust their playstyle.

hang on hang on.. you just tack on skills and act like its still a comparison. ZIon actually is a great post defender, just like Malone. It just doesnt matter anymore because teams dont attack there.

How much adjusted *could* be up for debate, but there are stats that track shot-type dating all the way back to 83 (Second Spectrum). They also adjust shot type by position.. the great majority of shots from PFs before the zone rule were in the post. Today, post-up shots are 4th among PFs, and 3rd among PF/Cs.. and I'm saying that Malone was elite in the post, and that's where his value came from. Wouldnt fly today though, zone's specifically exist to hinder that. Its not a coincidence that post player impact dried up almost immediately after the zone rule

[ShootersShoot]

Am I? mind sharing a quote on that one real quick?

I said I'd take Draymond over Malone in certain situations.. but you know what? The more I think about it, the more I'd lean Draymond.. what Malone excelled at is pretty much throwaway stuff in today's game. Kinda like how Draymond would be throwaway in the 80s/90s. Weird how it works, but that is how it works

Eh..I think dramond would be even better in the 90s. Or at least just as good. Dude is a beast regardless of how our conversation is going. Ive always defended and loved his game.

Maybe Anthony Mason? But Mase was a credible enough scorer and he flamed out quick after a couple hyped seasons in NYK. There just wasn't much room for PFs who couldnt score in the post those days. They lived there, both offensively and defensively.. the PFs with high assist totals were ones who could pass out of the post. Aside from Magic Johnson, there really wasn't a ton of the bigs running the offense from the top back then

Maybe he could succeed to levels close to where he is now... just like maybe Malone could. Its a very narrow road for both of them because those archetypes did/do not work when it comes to winning. Both would be nice to have in their respective fantasy scenarios, but there's a reason you didnt see Dray types in the finals then, and dont see Malone types in the finals now

Yea and seriously we should probably forgoe this debate and stick to the actual topic lol. Ypuve made some good points and pleasure talking with ya man

[Twinkie defense]

How can you not understand such a simple concept?

Maybe you think it's simple because you're being simplistic?

This is not NBA 2k

[CDM_Stats]

Malone is like a much better john collins, the offensive 4 that doesn't stretch the floor and isn't a defensive anchor is being phased out of the game. The archetype really doesn't exist anymore because those players are being forced to be either small ball 5s or forced to stretch the defense in order to get playing time now. Sabonis has to play the 5 to be maximized.

yup and FTR, Sabonis is still a 2 edged-sword. Guy nearly put up a triple double and was still barely a net positive in tracking.. and was not one in the playoffs

Its kinda like stealing bases in MLB... 30 years ago, guys getting to 100 was somewhat routine and it was a necessary part of the game. Bunting was around. Before this past season (SBs are way up for some reason), SB leaders were in the 40s, teams didnt play smallball anymore, batting average gave way to OBP/OPS and guys that would have succeeded in the 90s are now phased out of the game, while .200 hitting sluggers that would have been stuck in AAA are now mainstays in MLB lineups

Evolution (and its not always pretty)

[CDM_Stats]

Eh..I think dramond would be even better in the 90s. Or at least just as good. Dude is a beast regardless of how our conversation is going. Ive always defended and loved his game.

Maybe Anthony Mason? But Mase was a credible enough scorer and he flamed out quick after a couple hyped seasons in NYK. There just wasn't much room for PFs who couldnt score in the post those days. They lived there, both offensively and defensively.. the PFs with high assist totals were ones who could pass out of the post. Aside from Magic Johnson, there really wasn't a ton of the bigs running the offense from the top back then

Maybe he could succeed to levels close to where he is now... just like maybe Malone could. Its a very narrow road for both of them because those archetypes did/do not work when it comes to winning. Both would be nice to have in their respective fantasy scenarios, but there's a reason you didnt see Dray types in the finals then, and dont see Malone types in the finals now

Yea and seriously we should probably forgoe this debate and stick to the actual topic lol. Ypuve made some good points and pleasure talking with ya man

I'm Italian and I love yelling, we're good

[Onus]

Malone is like a much better john collins, the offensive 4 that doesn't stretch the floor and isn't a defensive anchor is being phased out of the game. The archetype really doesn't exist anymore because those players are being forced to be either small ball 5s or forced to stretch the defense in order to get playing time now. Sabonis has to play the 5 to be maximized.

yup and FTR, Sabonis is still a 2 edged-sword. Guy nearly put up a triple double and was still barely a net positive in tracking.. and was not one in the playoffs

Its kinda like stealing bases in MLB... 30 years ago, guys getting to 100 was somewhat routine and it was a necessary part of the game. Bunting was around. Before this past season (SBs are way up for some reason), SB leaders were in the 40s, teams didnt play smallball anymore, batting average gave way to OBP/OPS and guys that would have succeeded in the 90s are now phased out of the game, while .200 hitting sluggers that would have been stuck in AAA are now mainstays in MLB lineups

Evolution (and its not always pretty)

I'll also add offensive oriented 4s haven't really been a successful archetype throughout history. Dirk and maybe Giannis are probably the only real 4s that have been no 1 options and won a title. I guess you could say Duncan, but I'd classify him as a center. Dirk is a stretch 4. Giannis is probably closer to a center on offense, just not able to anchor a defense like your typical centers. Duncan plays more like a center and able to actually anchor a defense like a center.

[Twinkie defense]

The rule changes have really impacted the type of bigs that can be effective in the modern era - you don't have to guard these guys one-on-one anymore, you can collapse on them in the post. Easy to make bigs very uncomfortable holding the ball in the low post. And then there's the hand-check rules on the perimeter and the rise in importance of the three-point shot - even if that big man backs it in and gets the two, the other team is very happy to run it back for a three.

In the moments that matter the most, a guy like Karl Malone is going to end up switched on Steph Curry way out past the three point line, where his shot blocking is neutralized, the middle is wide open for cutters, and Steph only needs a few inches of space to drain a three over him.

The prototypical big man now needs to be able to not only protect the rim and make high-percentage two-point shots, he has to be able to guard smaller players on the perimeter, run the court, and hit the three. If you can run the offense through him from the high post, all the better. Which is a unicorn skillset, so you can see why there is more smallball (easier to find a 6' 7" guy who can do those things) and not too many winning teams with more traditionally-skilled true big men.

It's just a different game. Steph would not be as impactful if he was playing in the 1990's, and the Mailman would not be as impactful if he was playing under today's rules.

[Twinkie defense]

not asking him prior to the trade if he was open to the move

CP3 and Steph talked, and both Steph and Klay are STOKED that CP3 is joining the Warriors. This trade would not happen if both Steph and CP3 didn't approve.

having to learn an entirely new way to play the game

CP3 is going to be a changeup. His style of play offensively is probably a better fit for the second unit anyway. Plus he is very smart and savvy - he will find a way to fit in.

A Curry/Paul/Klay lineup might be bottom 5 worst in the NBA defensively

I don't think you are going to see a lot of those three-guard units - CP3 is that steady-hand, back-up point guard Steve Kerr has always craved so things don't fall apart when Steph takes a break.

Youre banking on a lower usage keeping CP3 healthy

He played 59 games and 32 minutes per game last season - that's more games than either Steph or Wiggins, and too many minutes. Warriors will give him the Iggy treatment this season, fewer minutes, games off for load management, eye towards the playoffs, not the regular season.

What is Draymonds role in a lineup with CP3?

With CP3 running the second unit, that means Draymond doesn't have to, which also means you can have Draymond and Steph on the court together more.

People don't realize they were ALWAYS going to have to move Poole when his contract kicked in.

Yep, Warriors had to move Poole. I'm sure they are happy they were able to get something in return - in fact they think they are better in the short term (winning this season) AND long term (CP3 can be a one-year rental that frees up cap space next season, they can run it back a second time if it works out this season, or they can use CP3 as matching salary in a trade next summer).

And Steph is happy.

All things considered IDK how much better it could have turned out - although Warriors tried to get O.G. Anunoby instead. That would have been nice!

[Twinkie defense]

Aside from Magic Johnson, there really wasn't a ton of the bigs running the offense from the top back then

Draymond Green is a poor man's Magic Johnson. And I like how you call him a big - he was dominant as a stand-in rookie center (and preview of today's smallball centers) for the 1980 Championship Lakers.

(BTW, for people who haven't watched the HBO series Winning Time, check it out! Season 2 will be starting soon.)

[ShootersShoot]

Will be interesting to see how cp3 does in a reduced role. He has been a starter playing 30+ minutes every year of his career. Big fan of TJD as well hopefully he can make an impact as a rook

[ShootersShoot]

Malone is like a much better john collins, the offensive 4 that doesn't stretch the floor and isn't a defensive anchor is being phased out of the game. The archetype really doesn't exist anymore because those players are being forced to be either small ball 5s or forced to stretch the defense in order to get playing time now. Sabonis has to play the 5 to be maximized.

yup and FTR, Sabonis is still a 2 edged-sword. Guy nearly put up a triple double and was still barely a net positive in tracking.. and was not one in the playoffs

Its kinda like stealing bases in MLB... 30 years ago, guys getting to 100 was somewhat routine and it was a necessary part of the game. Bunting was around. Before this past season (SBs are way up for some reason), SB leaders were in the 40s, teams didnt play smallball anymore, batting average gave way to OBP/OPS and guys that would have succeeded in the 90s are now phased out of the game, while .200 hitting sluggers that would have been stuck in AAA are now mainstays in MLB lineups

Evolution (and its not always pretty)

I'll also add offensive oriented 4s haven't really been a successful archetype throughout history. Dirk and maybe Giannis are probably the only real 4s that have been no 1 options and won a title. I guess you could say Duncan, but I'd classify him as a center. Dirk is a stretch 4. Giannis is probably closer to a center on offense, just not able to anchor a defense like your typical centers. Duncan plays more like a center and able to actually anchor a defense like a center.

As #1 options...not really, but keep in mind draymond isnt a #1. All star level pfs who can score have been integral parts of recent champions as top 3 guys: siakam, pau, love, KG, bosh (maybe he was a center at that point), AD

And then yea of course dirk and giannis as #1s

If for example karl malone was a #2 or #3 option..that is a pretty good option to have.