2020 Draft Thread

[clyde21]

look at all the bigs drafted in the top 5 since 2012...which ones have been worth it so far?

Anthony Davis - elite defender, developed into elite, legit 3 level offense guy
Joel Embiid - elite defender, developed into elite, legit 3 level offense guy
KAT - elite offensive player, 3 level scorer

and then in '18 you had Ayton, Bagley and JJJ

JJJ is an ELITE defender...Ayton and Bagley not so much...in an '18 redraft Ayton and Bagley might not even go top 5 again.

so, unless you think Wiseman can develop into 1) a game changing defender (which he's not) or a legitimate offensive powerhouse that has a 3-level offensive game...you're not getting top value for your pick. this isn't the 90s anymore.

so we can take Wiseman, fine, he's gonna be a great rim runner and great on the boards, but I would rather go another route, like a wing or a combo forward, and get that archetype somewhere else.

[Coxy]

I'm sorry but Wiseman is extremely skilled. And when you combine that with the physicals it's an awesome combination.

Also to think Wiseman wouldn't benefit from playing with Steph Klay and Draymond is crazy talk. Hed already provide exactly what we need at center, but he'd also fit perfectly skill wise with what we do.

He may not be as good as AD, but so what. I doubt he's anything close to a bust. He's more of a boom player.

This kid is can't miss and if we have a shot at him, we HAVE to take him.

Amen.

I'm starting to think that there is a joke account on this board, seriously.

you can actually argue against my points instead of throwing ad hominems

no one is disputing Wiseman's talent within his archetype...but there are two major questions...is his archetype what this team needs and the bigger question...is his archetype worthy of a top5 pick in today's NBA? there's a reason why a guy like DeAndre Ayton needs a legit PG to contribute on offense, because he can't make things happen on his own...so if you're willing to take a C that 1) needs a playmaker to be able to produce offensively and 2) doesn't project to be a game changing defender...is that really worthy of a top5 pick? i don't think so.

what's do you think his ceiling is? Andre Drummond? even Drummond, who pops off 20/20 games every other night, has questionable team level impact because he doesn't produce his own offense and isn't a game change on D...why would you want that over a legit wing or combo forward?

Wiseman is gonna be an elite rim runner and is gonna be a hound on the boards...great, i'd rather have a wing that can defend 2-4, run the court and be a multi-level scorer...something that this team desperately needs...you can get rim runners/rebounders anywhere in the draft (obviously not on Wiseman's level but still).

We need an inside presence, exactly what Wiseman is. We have looked NOTHING like the best of what we are with the Klay, Steph and Dray show, without Andrew Bogut. Having Durant was a cheat mode, so that doesn't count. When we had an inside presence in Bogut, we consistently got stops and cleaned the boards to outlet and get running causing chaos never seen in the NBA. Green, can't play full time C anymore, and as the 3 guys age they need help on defense the most now, someone that can come in and chase shots, rebound big time, use length to clog lanes, and also finish like a boss inside. Wiseman is exactly the kid needed here to inject a much needed, athletic young monster into the team.

Trade Dlo for the wing needed. If we were able to pull the deal running around that everyone is trying to shove down our throats for Covington, then we roll with Steph, Klay, Roco, Green, Wiseman with Paschall, Looney, MLE, Poole, Bowman, Smiley, Teague?, whatever.

I really think the exact opposite to your reasoning on this one. Wiseman would be the youth injection next to Green up front that would potentially unlock the 2015/16 version of us again.

[KevinMcreynolds]

Yup, Wiseman with this team would be insane and a perfect fit. I’ve only watched 1 and a half of his games and it’s obvious to me he’s going to be a beast.

[Mylie10]

I'm sorry but Wiseman is extremely skilled. And when you combine that with the physicals it's an awesome combination.

Also to think Wiseman wouldn't benefit from playing with Steph Klay and Draymond is crazy talk. Hed already provide exactly what we need at center, but he'd also fit perfectly skill wise with what we do.

He may not be as good as AD, but so what. I doubt he's anything close to a bust. He's more of a boom player.

This kid is can't miss and if we have a shot at him, we HAVE to take him.

Amen.

I'm starting to think that there is a joke account on this board, seriously.

you can actually argue against my points instead of throwing ad hominems

no one is disputing Wiseman's talent within his archetype...but there are two major questions...is his archetype what this team needs and the bigger question...is his archetype worthy of a top5 pick in today's NBA? there's a reason why a guy like DeAndre Ayton needs a legit PG to contribute on offense, because he can't make things happen on his own...so if you're willing to take a C that 1) needs a playmaker to be able to produce offensively and 2) doesn't project to be a game changing defender...is that really worthy of a top5 pick? i don't think so.

what's do you think his ceiling is? Andre Drummond? even Drummond, who pops off 20/20 games every other night, has questionable team level impact because he doesn't produce his own offense and isn't a game change on D...why would you want that over a legit wing or combo forward?

Wiseman is gonna be an elite rim runner and is gonna be a hound on the boards...great, i'd rather have a wing that can defend 2-4, run the court and be a multi-level scorer...something that this team desperately needs...you can get rim runners/rebounders anywhere in the draft (obviously not on Wiseman's level but still).

Wiseman is already way beyond Drummond offensively. And he can work in the post. So yes he can create his own offense. He can also face up.

What we don't know is if mentally he's a dog. If hes a kitty then I don't want him. Just haven't heard that yet.

Lets just say I disagree with you on this one Clyde. If we land late lottery then I'd go wings.

[Phase 3]

My only issue with Wiseman is that he plays center.

Center is the least impactful position in the modern nba unless you have an Embiid or Anthony Davis(who I consider a 5 in today’s game). A center on the Warriors might not even be out there in crunch time because Draymond kills it at the 5 when the game is on the line against 95% of teams out there.

Now, is Wiseman talented? Yes. Will he be a good NBA center? Yes imo. Would I be upset if they picked him? Absolutely not.

My only thing is that I want the Warriors to go Best Player Available and if it’s close, I’d go with the non-center. If Wiseman is head and shoulders above the other prospects, then draft him. Just my opinion.

[clyde21]

Amen.

I'm starting to think that there is a joke account on this board, seriously.

you can actually argue against my points instead of throwing ad hominems

no one is disputing Wiseman's talent within his archetype...but there are two major questions...is his archetype what this team needs and the bigger question...is his archetype worthy of a top5 pick in today's NBA? there's a reason why a guy like DeAndre Ayton needs a legit PG to contribute on offense, because he can't make things happen on his own...so if you're willing to take a C that 1) needs a playmaker to be able to produce offensively and 2) doesn't project to be a game changing defender...is that really worthy of a top5 pick? i don't think so.

what's do you think his ceiling is? Andre Drummond? even Drummond, who pops off 20/20 games every other night, has questionable team level impact because he doesn't produce his own offense and isn't a game change on D...why would you want that over a legit wing or combo forward?

Wiseman is gonna be an elite rim runner and is gonna be a hound on the boards...great, i'd rather have a wing that can defend 2-4, run the court and be a multi-level scorer...something that this team desperately needs...you can get rim runners/rebounders anywhere in the draft (obviously not on Wiseman's level but still).

We need an inside presence, exactly what Wiseman is. We have looked NOTHING like the best of what we are with the Klay, Steph and Dray show, without Andrew Bogut. Having Durant was a cheat mode, so that doesn't count. When we had an inside presence in Bogut, we consistently got stops and cleaned the boards to outlet and get running causing chaos never seen in the NBA. Green, can't play full time C anymore, and as the 3 guys age they need help on defense the most now, someone that can come in and chase shots, rebound big time, use length to clog lanes, and also finish like a boss inside. Wiseman is exactly the kid needed here to inject a much needed, athletic young monster into the team.

Trade Dlo for the wing needed. If we were able to pull the deal running around that everyone is trying to shove down our throats for Covington, then we roll with Steph, Klay, Roco, Green, Wiseman with Paschall, Looney, MLE, Poole, Bowman, Smiley, Teague?, whatever.

I really think the exact opposite to your reasoning on this one. Wiseman would be the youth injection next to Green up front that would potentially unlock the 2015/16 version of us again.

yea, we *need* an inside presence, but you can get an inside presence anywhere in the draft, you don't need to spend a top5 pick on just guy that's gonna give you an inside presence. we also don't need an inside presence as much as we need wings and combo forwards...we're trotting out Glen Robinson as a starter out there ffs.

also, in 15 and 16, our best lineup was actually the one without Bogut, and actually what made Boges an incredible fit on this team was not just that he was an inside presence, but was also a GREAT screen setter and an even better inside-out passer. it's always about way more about just lob catching and grabbing a few boards...again you can get rim runners and rebounders anywhere in the draft really.

again, since 2012 this are the bigs that were drafted in the top5:

Anthony Davis
Karl-Anthony Towns
Kristaps Porzingis
Joel Embiid
Jahlil Okafor
Deandre Ayton
Marvin Bagley
Jaren Jackson Jr.

Wiseman isn't the same defensive player as Davis, Emiid or JJJ as a prospect

He also isn't the same offensive player as Towns or KP as a prospect

that leaves Okafor/Ayton/Bagley, and Ayton/Bagley already might not go top 5 in a redraft and we all know where Okafor goes.

[clyde21]

Amen.

I'm starting to think that there is a joke account on this board, seriously.

you can actually argue against my points instead of throwing ad hominems

no one is disputing Wiseman's talent within his archetype...but there are two major questions...is his archetype what this team needs and the bigger question...is his archetype worthy of a top5 pick in today's NBA? there's a reason why a guy like DeAndre Ayton needs a legit PG to contribute on offense, because he can't make things happen on his own...so if you're willing to take a C that 1) needs a playmaker to be able to produce offensively and 2) doesn't project to be a game changing defender...is that really worthy of a top5 pick? i don't think so.

what's do you think his ceiling is? Andre Drummond? even Drummond, who pops off 20/20 games every other night, has questionable team level impact because he doesn't produce his own offense and isn't a game change on D...why would you want that over a legit wing or combo forward?

Wiseman is gonna be an elite rim runner and is gonna be a hound on the boards...great, i'd rather have a wing that can defend 2-4, run the court and be a multi-level scorer...something that this team desperately needs...you can get rim runners/rebounders anywhere in the draft (obviously not on Wiseman's level but still).

Wiseman is already way beyond Drummond offensively. And he can work in the post. So yes he can create his own offense. He can also face up.

What we don't know is if mentally he's a dog. If hes a kitty then I don't want him. Just haven't heard that yet.

Lets just say I disagree with you on this one Clyde. If we land late lottery then I'd go wings.

well, Dray is a vegetable at this point, so saying Wiseman is better offensively isn't saying much.

i feel like we're watching two players tbh...99% of Wiseman's offense comes on lobs, put-backs and rim running, at this point he's a 1-level scorer and even in that 1 level he's not very sophisticated...look at what happened to Okafor in the league and Okafor was actually a much more sophisticated scorer inside than Wiseman.

now. he's still super young and he could develop multi-level offense or turn into a defensive freak, but you can say those IFs about a bunch of people, and if I am playing the if game i'd rather do it on a wing tbh.

wouldn't be the end of the world if we took him, I just feel like we need to prioritize other archetypes first.

[clyde21]

My only issue with Wiseman is that he plays center.

Center is the least impactful position in the modern nba unless you have an Embiid or Anthony Davis(who I consider a 5 in today’s game). A center on the Warriors might not even be out there in crunch time because Draymond kills it at the 5 when the game is on the line against 95% of teams out there.

Now, is Wiseman talented? Yes. Will he be a good NBA center? Yes imo. Would I be upset if they picked him? Absolutely not.

My only thing is that I want the Warriors to go Best Player Available and if it’s close, I’d go with the non-center. If Wiseman is head and shoulders above the other prospects, then draft him. Just my opinion.

well, unfortunately, this draft sucks on the wings, the top tier guys are pretty much are guards or Wiseman (consensus wise)

in that case honestly I'd rather just trade down and grab a good value wing if there's a good package, get another pick in 21 or for a strong rotational guy.

[ChuckDurn]

I'm on board with giving him a year and seeing how he looks. Right now I anticpiate wanting to trade him. But I"m willing to give him a chance to prove me wrong.

I'd like to see him play with Steph and Klay for a while, whether this year or next.

yeah always felt like that trio could be really good if given some time to gel.

Could be really good offensively. But defensively, it’s a massive problem at the guard position, unless Russell steps up dramatically, and there’s not much indication that he will or can. Klay playing the 2, but being able to defend every position from point guard through power forward (on switches) has been a little-spoken reason we’ve been so good. Having both Curry and Russell be vulnerable to switches, or taken off the dribble, is a real problem.

[Mylie10]

I'd like to see him play with Steph and Klay for a while, whether this year or next.

yeah always felt like that trio could be really good if given some time to gel.

Could be really good offensively. But defensively, it’s a massive problem at the guard position, unless Russell steps up dramatically, and there’s not much indication that he will or can. Klay playing the 2, but being able to defend every position from point guard through power forward (on switches) has been a little-spoken reason we’ve been so good. Having both Curry and Russell be vulnerable to switches, or taken off the dribble, is a real problem.

Trade Russell for wing-s

[ahmetmekin]

yeah always felt like that trio could be really good if given some time to gel.

Could be really good offensively. But defensively, it’s a massive problem at the guard position, unless Russell steps up dramatically, and there’s not much indication that he will or can. Klay playing the 2, but being able to defend every position from point guard through power forward (on switches) has been a little-spoken reason we’ve been so good. Having both Curry and Russell be vulnerable to switches, or taken off the dribble, is a real problem.

Trade Russell for wing-s

Keeping Russell would be a huge mistake. Curry-Russell-Klay as 1-2-3 do not make any sense defensively (offensively it is interesting but does not seem to be optimal.) and Russell is way too expensive as a backup guard. So trading him for an above average starter level wing is the only viable option.

[Coxy]

you can actually argue against my points instead of throwing ad hominems

no one is disputing Wiseman's talent within his archetype...but there are two major questions...is his archetype what this team needs and the bigger question...is his archetype worthy of a top5 pick in today's NBA? there's a reason why a guy like DeAndre Ayton needs a legit PG to contribute on offense, because he can't make things happen on his own...so if you're willing to take a C that 1) needs a playmaker to be able to produce offensively and 2) doesn't project to be a game changing defender...is that really worthy of a top5 pick? i don't think so.

what's do you think his ceiling is? Andre Drummond? even Drummond, who pops off 20/20 games every other night, has questionable team level impact because he doesn't produce his own offense and isn't a game change on D...why would you want that over a legit wing or combo forward?

Wiseman is gonna be an elite rim runner and is gonna be a hound on the boards...great, i'd rather have a wing that can defend 2-4, run the court and be a multi-level scorer...something that this team desperately needs...you can get rim runners/rebounders anywhere in the draft (obviously not on Wiseman's level but still).

We need an inside presence, exactly what Wiseman is. We have looked NOTHING like the best of what we are with the Klay, Steph and Dray show, without Andrew Bogut. Having Durant was a cheat mode, so that doesn't count. When we had an inside presence in Bogut, we consistently got stops and cleaned the boards to outlet and get running causing chaos never seen in the NBA. Green, can't play full time C anymore, and as the 3 guys age they need help on defense the most now, someone that can come in and chase shots, rebound big time, use length to clog lanes, and also finish like a boss inside. Wiseman is exactly the kid needed here to inject a much needed, athletic young monster into the team.

Trade Dlo for the wing needed. If we were able to pull the deal running around that everyone is trying to shove down our throats for Covington, then we roll with Steph, Klay, Roco, Green, Wiseman with Paschall, Looney, MLE, Poole, Bowman, Smiley, Teague?, whatever.

I really think the exact opposite to your reasoning on this one. Wiseman would be the youth injection next to Green up front that would potentially unlock the 2015/16 version of us again.

yea, we *need* an inside presence, but you can get an inside presence anywhere in the draft, you don't need to spend a top5 pick on just guy that's gonna give you an inside presence. we also don't need an inside presence as much as we need wings and combo forwards...we're trotting out Glen Robinson as a starter out there ffs.

also, in 15 and 16, our best lineup was actually the one without Bogut, and actually what made Boges an incredible fit on this team was not just that he was an inside presence, but was also a GREAT screen setter and an even better inside-out passer. it's always about way more about just lob catching and grabbing a few boards...again you can get rim runners and rebounders anywhere in the draft really.

again, since 2012 this are the bigs that were drafted in the top5:

Anthony Davis
Karl-Anthony Towns
Kristaps Porzingis
Joel Embiid
Jahlil Okafor
Deandre Ayton
Marvin Bagley
Jaren Jackson Jr.

Wiseman isn't the same defensive player as Davis, Emiid or JJJ as a prospect

He also isn't the same offensive player as Towns or KP as a prospect

that leaves Okafor/Ayton/Bagley, and Ayton/Bagley already might not go top 5 in a redraft and we all know where Okafor goes.

Again, I disagree with pretty much everything you say.

I see no reason why Wiseman isn't going to be a force in the paint, perfect for what we need around the core 3 guys as they age. I see no reason why he can't be a KAT type. The only thing that is stopping him, is the fight in the dog as Mylie points out. You talk about us finding an inside presence anywhere in the draft, well I'm not talking about finding the next Kyle O'Quinn or Alex Len here dude. I'm talking about drafting a guy, that within the Warriors org next to our top hall of famers, will grow into a monster, because he has that potential.

I also don't know how you can just say that he isn't this or that right now. What have you seen in his 1st 2 college games, that says he's NOT what everyone else thinks he can be? You seem to be out on your own lake with this take fishing for something that isn;t there. His defensive timing in those games was amazing, he was chasing shots and looked great as a weakside help defender. He showed tools other than just put back dunks and lobs. He put the ball on the floor at times and finished with aplomb in a variety of ways. He has a great shooting stroke for a lefty, very smooth, and hit FT's like a prime Mark Price. Even if he doesn't end up the love child of Wilt and Shaq, playing on our team next to guys that will bring the very very best out of his super athletic body, with no pressure to be a KAT or Embiid, he would be perfect.

There's also that little factor of the Draymond Green effect. Dray creates so many looks for bigs inside, and also would be immense in helping Wiseman quickly get acclimated to the defensive responsibilites needed in the league. The Green effect on a young big with a good, hungry attitiude can't be underestimated.

Again, use Dlo to find a wing.

[Coxy]

For the record, I am only OK with trading Dlo for Covington + Filler, IF we can draft Wiseman.

If we miss out on Wiseman, then I want to trade Dlo for a C, and draft BPA.

[clyde21]

We need an inside presence, exactly what Wiseman is. We have looked NOTHING like the best of what we are with the Klay, Steph and Dray show, without Andrew Bogut. Having Durant was a cheat mode, so that doesn't count. When we had an inside presence in Bogut, we consistently got stops and cleaned the boards to outlet and get running causing chaos never seen in the NBA. Green, can't play full time C anymore, and as the 3 guys age they need help on defense the most now, someone that can come in and chase shots, rebound big time, use length to clog lanes, and also finish like a boss inside. Wiseman is exactly the kid needed here to inject a much needed, athletic young monster into the team.

Trade Dlo for the wing needed. If we were able to pull the deal running around that everyone is trying to shove down our throats for Covington, then we roll with Steph, Klay, Roco, Green, Wiseman with Paschall, Looney, MLE, Poole, Bowman, Smiley, Teague?, whatever.

I really think the exact opposite to your reasoning on this one. Wiseman would be the youth injection next to Green up front that would potentially unlock the 2015/16 version of us again.

yea, we *need* an inside presence, but you can get an inside presence anywhere in the draft, you don't need to spend a top5 pick on just guy that's gonna give you an inside presence. we also don't need an inside presence as much as we need wings and combo forwards...we're trotting out Glen Robinson as a starter out there ffs.

also, in 15 and 16, our best lineup was actually the one without Bogut, and actually what made Boges an incredible fit on this team was not just that he was an inside presence, but was also a GREAT screen setter and an even better inside-out passer. it's always about way more about just lob catching and grabbing a few boards...again you can get rim runners and rebounders anywhere in the draft really.

again, since 2012 this are the bigs that were drafted in the top5:

Anthony Davis
Karl-Anthony Towns
Kristaps Porzingis
Joel Embiid
Jahlil Okafor
Deandre Ayton
Marvin Bagley
Jaren Jackson Jr.

Wiseman isn't the same defensive player as Davis, Emiid or JJJ as a prospect

He also isn't the same offensive player as Towns or KP as a prospect

that leaves Okafor/Ayton/Bagley, and Ayton/Bagley already might not go top 5 in a redraft and we all know where Okafor goes.

Again, I disagree with pretty much everything you say.

I see no reason why Wiseman isn't going to be a force in the paint, perfect for what we need around the core 3 guys as they age. I see no reason why he can't be a KAT type. The only thing that is stopping him, is the fight in the dog as Mylie points out. You talk about us finding an inside presence anywhere in the draft, well I'm not talking about finding the next Kyle O'Quinn or Alex Len here dude. I'm talking about drafting a guy, that within the Warriors org next to our top hall of famers, will grow into a monster, because he has that potential.

I also don't know how you can just say that he isn't this or that right now. What have you seen in his 1st 2 college games, that says he's NOT what everyone else thinks he can be? You seem to be out on your own lake with this take fishing for something that isn;t there. His defensive timing in those games was amazing, he was chasing shots and looked great as a weakside help defender. He showed tools other than just put back dunks and lobs. He put the ball on the floor at times and finished with aplomb in a variety of ways. He has a great shooting stroke for a lefty, very smooth, and hit FT's like a prime Mark Price. Even if he doesn't end up the love child of Wilt and Shaq, playing on our team next to guys that will bring the very very best out of his super athletic body, with no pressure to be a KAT or Embiid, he would be perfect.

There's also that little factor of the Draymond Green effect. Dray creates so many looks for bigs inside, and also would be immense in helping Wiseman quickly get acclimated to the defensive responsibilites needed in the league. The Green effect on a young big with a good, hungry attitiude can't be underestimated.

Again, use Dlo to find a wing.

i never said he can't be a force in the paint...i said he's really good for what his archetype is, right now he's nothing more than lob/put-back/rim-runner...he's elite at these things, but he's not a guy that you can run the offense through because he has no semblance if an inside-out game at this point and he's not a footwork/post-up guy (at this point, could change).

KAT is much, much, much more refined offensively and it wasn't all that close, KAT can put the ball on floor, had a multi-level offensive game that expanded beyond the paint, and was actually a ++ defender on top of it as a prospect.

and yea, sure, he'll be a HoF the same way a guy like Andre Drummond is a HoF, fine, where exactly has that brought the Pistons in today's NBA? dude can barely get them into the playoffs because his archetype inherently is not that impactful.

i'm not disputing the talent, I'm disputing the archetype and our need to spend a top5 pick on it.

we just have different approaches and philosophies to team building, it's fine.

[Coxy]

yea, we *need* an inside presence, but you can get an inside presence anywhere in the draft, you don't need to spend a top5 pick on just guy that's gonna give you an inside presence. we also don't need an inside presence as much as we need wings and combo forwards...we're trotting out Glen Robinson as a starter out there ffs.

also, in 15 and 16, our best lineup was actually the one without Bogut, and actually what made Boges an incredible fit on this team was not just that he was an inside presence, but was also a GREAT screen setter and an even better inside-out passer. it's always about way more about just lob catching and grabbing a few boards...again you can get rim runners and rebounders anywhere in the draft really.

again, since 2012 this are the bigs that were drafted in the top5:

Anthony Davis
Karl-Anthony Towns
Kristaps Porzingis
Joel Embiid
Jahlil Okafor
Deandre Ayton
Marvin Bagley
Jaren Jackson Jr.

Wiseman isn't the same defensive player as Davis, Emiid or JJJ as a prospect

He also isn't the same offensive player as Towns or KP as a prospect

that leaves Okafor/Ayton/Bagley, and Ayton/Bagley already might not go top 5 in a redraft and we all know where Okafor goes.

Again, I disagree with pretty much everything you say.

I see no reason why Wiseman isn't going to be a force in the paint, perfect for what we need around the core 3 guys as they age. I see no reason why he can't be a KAT type. The only thing that is stopping him, is the fight in the dog as Mylie points out. You talk about us finding an inside presence anywhere in the draft, well I'm not talking about finding the next Kyle O'Quinn or Alex Len here dude. I'm talking about drafting a guy, that within the Warriors org next to our top hall of famers, will grow into a monster, because he has that potential.

I also don't know how you can just say that he isn't this or that right now. What have you seen in his 1st 2 college games, that says he's NOT what everyone else thinks he can be? You seem to be out on your own lake with this take fishing for something that isn;t there. His defensive timing in those games was amazing, he was chasing shots and looked great as a weakside help defender. He showed tools other than just put back dunks and lobs. He put the ball on the floor at times and finished with aplomb in a variety of ways. He has a great shooting stroke for a lefty, very smooth, and hit FT's like a prime Mark Price. Even if he doesn't end up the love child of Wilt and Shaq, playing on our team next to guys that will bring the very very best out of his super athletic body, with no pressure to be a KAT or Embiid, he would be perfect.

There's also that little factor of the Draymond Green effect. Dray creates so many looks for bigs inside, and also would be immense in helping Wiseman quickly get acclimated to the defensive responsibilites needed in the league. The Green effect on a young big with a good, hungry attitiude can't be underestimated.

Again, use Dlo to find a wing.

i never said he can't be a force in the paint...i said he's really good for what his archetype is, right now he's nothing more than lob/put-back/rim-runner...he's elite at these things, but he's not a guy that you can run the offense through because he has no semblance if an inside-out game at this point and he's not a footwork/post-up guy (at this point, could change).

KAT is much, much, much more refined offensively and it wasn't all that close, KAT can put the ball on floor, had a multi-level offensive game that expanded beyond the paint, and was actually a ++ defender on top of it as a prospect.

and yea, sure, he'll be a HoF the same way a guy like Andre Drummond is a HoF, fine, where exactly has that brought the Pistons in today's NBA? dude can barely get them into the playoffs because his archetype inherently is not that impactful.

i'm not disputing the talent, I'm disputing the archetype and our need to spend a top5 pick on it.

we just have different approaches and philosophies to team building, it's fine.

You seem to be hung up on a big man needing to have a top all round offensive game, like Embiid or KAT. We don't need that, nor should we want that, as they NEED the ball, and we want the ball in Steph, Klay and Dray's hands 90% of the time anyway.

Let me ask you this, how do you think Drummond, or Gobert for example, would have done over the past 3-4 seasons on our team at C next to Klay, Steph, Dray? Both of thes guys aren't meant to be 1 or 2 options on offense, they are what they are, defensive, intimidation type players that thrive on offense around guys that create for them. Think Ben Wallace next to Billups, Rip and Sheed. When these types of players aren't relied on to create offense and have it run through them, they can concentrate on dominating the other aspects of the big man game, which is defense, rebounding, screeen setting, ball movement on offense, lobs, offensive boards,, chasing shots, clogging lanes. That role is the most underated in the league, and creates the environment for our flashy guys, particularly Steph, to be unleashed to full effect.

When we had Bogut, and Javale at times as well, we got so many quick easy lobs from the spacing that Steph and Klay drew away from the paint. Green just fed Bogez and Javale all the time, because teams have to stay out on our guys, so on offense with our core, an athletic big man just feasts on dunks. Then on D, they intiidate, and with the help of Green get stops for us to run and bombs away here we come.

Anyway, obvious we disagree on the point, which may end up moot anyway if Wise doesn't drop to us. On with the tank.

[Marcus]

yea, we *need* an inside presence, but you can get an inside presence anywhere in the draft, you don't need to spend a top5 pick on just guy that's gonna give you an inside presence. we also don't need an inside presence as much as we need wings and combo forwards...we're trotting out Glen Robinson as a starter out there ffs.

also, in 15 and 16, our best lineup was actually the one without Bogut, and actually what made Boges an incredible fit on this team was not just that he was an inside presence, but was also a GREAT screen setter and an even better inside-out passer. it's always about way more about just lob catching and grabbing a few boards...again you can get rim runners and rebounders anywhere in the draft really.

again, since 2012 this are the bigs that were drafted in the top5:

Anthony Davis
Karl-Anthony Towns
Kristaps Porzingis
Joel Embiid
Jahlil Okafor
Deandre Ayton
Marvin Bagley
Jaren Jackson Jr.

Wiseman isn't the same defensive player as Davis, Emiid or JJJ as a prospect

He also isn't the same offensive player as Towns or KP as a prospect

that leaves Okafor/Ayton/Bagley, and Ayton/Bagley already might not go top 5 in a redraft and we all know where Okafor goes.

Again, I disagree with pretty much everything you say.

I see no reason why Wiseman isn't going to be a force in the paint, perfect for what we need around the core 3 guys as they age. I see no reason why he can't be a KAT type. The only thing that is stopping him, is the fight in the dog as Mylie points out. You talk about us finding an inside presence anywhere in the draft, well I'm not talking about finding the next Kyle O'Quinn or Alex Len here dude. I'm talking about drafting a guy, that within the Warriors org next to our top hall of famers, will grow into a monster, because he has that potential.

I also don't know how you can just say that he isn't this or that right now. What have you seen in his 1st 2 college games, that says he's NOT what everyone else thinks he can be? You seem to be out on your own lake with this take fishing for something that isn;t there. His defensive timing in those games was amazing, he was chasing shots and looked great as a weakside help defender. He showed tools other than just put back dunks and lobs. He put the ball on the floor at times and finished with aplomb in a variety of ways. He has a great shooting stroke for a lefty, very smooth, and hit FT's like a prime Mark Price. Even if he doesn't end up the love child of Wilt and Shaq, playing on our team next to guys that will bring the very very best out of his super athletic body, with no pressure to be a KAT or Embiid, he would be perfect.

There's also that little factor of the Draymond Green effect. Dray creates so many looks for bigs inside, and also would be immense in helping Wiseman quickly get acclimated to the defensive responsibilites needed in the league. The Green effect on a young big with a good, hungry attitiude can't be underestimated.

Again, use Dlo to find a wing.

i never said he can't be a force in the paint...i said he's really good for what his archetype is, right now he's nothing more than lob/put-back/rim-runner...he's elite at these things, but he's not a guy that you can run the offense through because he has no semblance if an inside-out game at this point and he's not a footwork/post-up guy (at this point, could change).

KAT is much, much, much more refined offensively and it wasn't all that close, KAT can put the ball on floor, had a multi-level offensive game that expanded beyond the paint, and was actually a ++ defender on top of it as a prospect.

and yea, sure, he'll be a HoF the same way a guy like Andre Drummond is a HoF, fine, where exactly has that brought the Pistons in today's NBA? dude can barely get them into the playoffs because his archetype inherently is not that impactful.

i'm not disputing the talent, I'm disputing the archetype and our need to spend a top5 pick on it.

we just have different approaches and philosophies to team building, it's fine.

I think what Clyde is saying (because I brought up the same point to him earlier) isn't that Wiseman isn't a talented player but that he doesn't think for what his archetype is that there is a need to draft him to do those things if he can be flipped for a team need and that same role can be filled by say an Okongwu from USC a Jalen Smith from Maryland or Charles Bassey from Western Kentucky.

In all fairness you guys don't really need a post presence with the talent you have and the system being what it is so I can understand why one would feel like that player type is passable if you aren't even looking to develop or use him in these myriad of ways you may think he can improve.

Don't know how yall felt about it around here but Boogie was light years ahead of every other center yall had during the run but he appeared to throw off so much of the fluidity that you guys played with offensively and i think that's more to do with his talent and player type being more than what you guys actually needed from that spot. I feel like (and as always please correct me if i'm wrong) Clyde is looking at from that way as well. If Wiseman isn't an Embiid/KAT/KP right now, do you really need to develop that with how you guys currently get your points and run your system when healthy. And, if Wiseman is only going to be used to rimrun, grab boards, set picks, and block shots could you find someone else to do those same things and flip a potential Wiseman draft slot for the void left from losing a KD and Iggy which looks like a position of need for the team and how that system flourishes.

[clyde21]

Again, I disagree with pretty much everything you say.

I see no reason why Wiseman isn't going to be a force in the paint, perfect for what we need around the core 3 guys as they age. I see no reason why he can't be a KAT type. The only thing that is stopping him, is the fight in the dog as Mylie points out. You talk about us finding an inside presence anywhere in the draft, well I'm not talking about finding the next Kyle O'Quinn or Alex Len here dude. I'm talking about drafting a guy, that within the Warriors org next to our top hall of famers, will grow into a monster, because he has that potential.

I also don't know how you can just say that he isn't this or that right now. What have you seen in his 1st 2 college games, that says he's NOT what everyone else thinks he can be? You seem to be out on your own lake with this take fishing for something that isn;t there. His defensive timing in those games was amazing, he was chasing shots and looked great as a weakside help defender. He showed tools other than just put back dunks and lobs. He put the ball on the floor at times and finished with aplomb in a variety of ways. He has a great shooting stroke for a lefty, very smooth, and hit FT's like a prime Mark Price. Even if he doesn't end up the love child of Wilt and Shaq, playing on our team next to guys that will bring the very very best out of his super athletic body, with no pressure to be a KAT or Embiid, he would be perfect.

There's also that little factor of the Draymond Green effect. Dray creates so many looks for bigs inside, and also would be immense in helping Wiseman quickly get acclimated to the defensive responsibilites needed in the league. The Green effect on a young big with a good, hungry attitiude can't be underestimated.

Again, use Dlo to find a wing.

i never said he can't be a force in the paint...i said he's really good for what his archetype is, right now he's nothing more than lob/put-back/rim-runner...he's elite at these things, but he's not a guy that you can run the offense through because he has no semblance if an inside-out game at this point and he's not a footwork/post-up guy (at this point, could change).

KAT is much, much, much more refined offensively and it wasn't all that close, KAT can put the ball on floor, had a multi-level offensive game that expanded beyond the paint, and was actually a ++ defender on top of it as a prospect.

and yea, sure, he'll be a HoF the same way a guy like Andre Drummond is a HoF, fine, where exactly has that brought the Pistons in today's NBA? dude can barely get them into the playoffs because his archetype inherently is not that impactful.

i'm not disputing the talent, I'm disputing the archetype and our need to spend a top5 pick on it.

we just have different approaches and philosophies to team building, it's fine.

You seem to be hung up on a big man needing to have a top all round offensive game, like Embiid or KAT. We don't need that, nor should we want that, as they NEED the ball, and we want the ball in Steph, Klay and Dray's hands 90% of the time anyway.

Let me ask you this, how do you think Drummond, or Gobert for example, would have done over the past 3-4 seasons on our team at C next to Klay, Steph, Dray? Both of thes guys aren't meant to be 1 or 2 options on offense, they are what they are, defensive, intimidation type players that thrive on offense around guys that create for them. Think Ben Wallace next to Billups, Rip and Sheed. When these types of players aren't relied on to create offense and have it run through them, they can concentrate on dominating the other aspects of the big man game, which is defense, rebounding, screeen setting, ball movement on offense, lobs, offensive boards,, chasing shots, clogging lanes. That role is the most underated in the league, and creates the environment for our flashy guys, particularly Steph, to be unleashed to full effect.

When we had Bogut, and Javale at times as well, we got so many quick easy lobs from the spacing that Steph and Klay drew away from the paint. Green just fed Bogez and Javale all the time, because teams have to stay out on our guys, so on offense with our core, an athletic big man just feasts on dunks. Then on D, they intiidate, and with the help of Green get stops for us to run and bombs away here we come.

Anyway, obvious we disagree on the point, which may end up moot anyway if Wise doesn't drop to us. On with the tank.

i know we don't need that, that's why I'm saying we don't need Wiseman. ideally speaking the only time you should take a C top5 in today's NBA is if he can be an elite defensive anchor (Gobert), and elite offensive anchor (KAT), or a combination of the both (Embiid)...Wiseman archetype is more on the Drummond/Ayton spectrum.

and I don't really understand the point of your question...yea if we had a Drummond we'd still be great...what's your point? you can ask the same thing about any top combo forward or top wing as well...what if we had a Paul George or a Jimmy Butler the last 5 years with Steph Dray and Klay? speaking from an archetype standpoint, would you rather have Drummond or Butler the next 5 years? if you're picking Drummond then we differ philosophically and there's no point in continuing the convo.

[clyde21]

again, the only reason IN TODAY'S NBA to take a Center top 5 are these categories:

1) is he an elite defensive anchor? (i.e. Gobert)

2) or is he an elite multi-level offensive player? (i.e. KAT)

3) or is he a combination of 1 and 2 (i.e. Embiid)

i don't think Wiseman falls under any of these archetypes as a prospect tbh (he's young, could change, who knows)...he's more in the Drummond/Ayton archetype...and I just don't think that archetype is worthy of a top 5 pick

and if you're asking me that for the Warriors, who are trotting out Glen **** Robinson at SF, should ignore that GIANT HOLE and take some version of Drummond I'm gonna say no thanks.

[clyde21]

Again, I disagree with pretty much everything you say.

I see no reason why Wiseman isn't going to be a force in the paint, perfect for what we need around the core 3 guys as they age. I see no reason why he can't be a KAT type. The only thing that is stopping him, is the fight in the dog as Mylie points out. You talk about us finding an inside presence anywhere in the draft, well I'm not talking about finding the next Kyle O'Quinn or Alex Len here dude. I'm talking about drafting a guy, that within the Warriors org next to our top hall of famers, will grow into a monster, because he has that potential.

I also don't know how you can just say that he isn't this or that right now. What have you seen in his 1st 2 college games, that says he's NOT what everyone else thinks he can be? You seem to be out on your own lake with this take fishing for something that isn;t there. His defensive timing in those games was amazing, he was chasing shots and looked great as a weakside help defender. He showed tools other than just put back dunks and lobs. He put the ball on the floor at times and finished with aplomb in a variety of ways. He has a great shooting stroke for a lefty, very smooth, and hit FT's like a prime Mark Price. Even if he doesn't end up the love child of Wilt and Shaq, playing on our team next to guys that will bring the very very best out of his super athletic body, with no pressure to be a KAT or Embiid, he would be perfect.

There's also that little factor of the Draymond Green effect. Dray creates so many looks for bigs inside, and also would be immense in helping Wiseman quickly get acclimated to the defensive responsibilites needed in the league. The Green effect on a young big with a good, hungry attitiude can't be underestimated.

Again, use Dlo to find a wing.

i never said he can't be a force in the paint...i said he's really good for what his archetype is, right now he's nothing more than lob/put-back/rim-runner...he's elite at these things, but he's not a guy that you can run the offense through because he has no semblance if an inside-out game at this point and he's not a footwork/post-up guy (at this point, could change).

KAT is much, much, much more refined offensively and it wasn't all that close, KAT can put the ball on floor, had a multi-level offensive game that expanded beyond the paint, and was actually a ++ defender on top of it as a prospect.

and yea, sure, he'll be a HoF the same way a guy like Andre Drummond is a HoF, fine, where exactly has that brought the Pistons in today's NBA? dude can barely get them into the playoffs because his archetype inherently is not that impactful.

i'm not disputing the talent, I'm disputing the archetype and our need to spend a top5 pick on it.

we just have different approaches and philosophies to team building, it's fine.

I think what Clyde is saying (because I brought up the same point to him earlier) isn't that Wiseman isn't a talented player but that he doesn't think for what his archetype is that there is a need to draft him to do those things if he can be flipped for a team need and that same role can be filled by say an Okongwu from USC a Jalen Smith from Maryland or Charles Bassey from Western Kentucky.

In all fairness you guys don't really need a post presence with the talent you have and the system being what it is so I can understand why one would feel like that player type is passable if you aren't even looking to develop or use him in these myriad of ways you may think he can improve.

Don't know how yall felt about it around here but Boogie was light years ahead of every other center yall had during the run but he appeared to throw off so much of the fluidity that you guys played with offensively and i think that's more to do with his talent and player type being more than what you guys actually needed from that spot. I feel like (and as always please correct me if i'm wrong) Clyde is looking at from that way as well. If Wiseman isn't an Embiid/KAT/KP right now, do you really need to develop that with how you guys currently get your points and run your system when healthy. And, if Wiseman is only going to be used to rimrun, grab boards, set picks, and block shots could you find someone else to do those same things and flip a potential Wiseman draft slot for the void left from losing a KD and Iggy which looks like a position of need for the team and how that system flourishes.

[Coxy]

i never said he can't be a force in the paint...i said he's really good for what his archetype is, right now he's nothing more than lob/put-back/rim-runner...he's elite at these things, but he's not a guy that you can run the offense through because he has no semblance if an inside-out game at this point and he's not a footwork/post-up guy (at this point, could change).

KAT is much, much, much more refined offensively and it wasn't all that close, KAT can put the ball on floor, had a multi-level offensive game that expanded beyond the paint, and was actually a ++ defender on top of it as a prospect.

and yea, sure, he'll be a HoF the same way a guy like Andre Drummond is a HoF, fine, where exactly has that brought the Pistons in today's NBA? dude can barely get them into the playoffs because his archetype inherently is not that impactful.

i'm not disputing the talent, I'm disputing the archetype and our need to spend a top5 pick on it.

we just have different approaches and philosophies to team building, it's fine.

You seem to be hung up on a big man needing to have a top all round offensive game, like Embiid or KAT. We don't need that, nor should we want that, as they NEED the ball, and we want the ball in Steph, Klay and Dray's hands 90% of the time anyway.

Let me ask you this, how do you think Drummond, or Gobert for example, would have done over the past 3-4 seasons on our team at C next to Klay, Steph, Dray? Both of thes guys aren't meant to be 1 or 2 options on offense, they are what they are, defensive, intimidation type players that thrive on offense around guys that create for them. Think Ben Wallace next to Billups, Rip and Sheed. When these types of players aren't relied on to create offense and have it run through them, they can concentrate on dominating the other aspects of the big man game, which is defense, rebounding, screeen setting, ball movement on offense, lobs, offensive boards,, chasing shots, clogging lanes. That role is the most underated in the league, and creates the environment for our flashy guys, particularly Steph, to be unleashed to full effect.

When we had Bogut, and Javale at times as well, we got so many quick easy lobs from the spacing that Steph and Klay drew away from the paint. Green just fed Bogez and Javale all the time, because teams have to stay out on our guys, so on offense with our core, an athletic big man just feasts on dunks. Then on D, they intiidate, and with the help of Green get stops for us to run and bombs away here we come.

Anyway, obvious we disagree on the point, which may end up moot anyway if Wise doesn't drop to us. On with the tank.

i know we don't need that, that's why I'm saying we don't need Wiseman. ideally speaking the only time you should take a C top5 in today's NBA is if he can be an elite defensive anchor (Gobert), and elite offensive anchor (KAT), or a combination of the both (Embiid)...Wiseman archetype is more on the Drummond/Ayton spectrum.

and I don't really understand the point of your question...yea if we had a Drummond we'd still be great...what's your point? you can ask the same thing about any top combo forward or top wing as well...what if we had a Paul George or a Jimmy Butler the last 5 years with Steph Dray and Klay? speaking from an archetype standpoint, would you rather have Drummond or Butler the next 5 years? if you're picking Drummond then we differ philosophically and there's no point in continuing the convo.

You threw out there suggesting that because Drummond hasn't led his team into deep playoff runs that he isn't a top player. I disagree, and believe that team context matters, and if Drummond were on the Warriors we'd barely lose a game.

I think we just disagree with Wiseman's trajectory at this point, as I see no reason he can't be an elite defensive presense with an offensive game to boot.

I'm not sure what elite wingman you think there would be in this draft worthy of trading out of the Wiseman draft slot that would help us win straight away either. I'd rather trade Dlo for said player, or try for a good SF signing with the MLE or trade exeption usage.