James Wiseman 2021/2022

[Sleepy51]

He needs to play organized basketball and he needs to play where he has to contend with opponent hands at his altitude. I’m not taking about post ups either. I’m talking about protecting the paint, rebounding, catch and protecting the ball. The comp doesn’t need to be NBA caliber per se, but if he’s playing against 6’7 guys playing center he is going to learn more bad habits than good.

I disagree that he went back to square one every time. He took steps back, but not to the beginning and he was WAY ahead of where he started by his last 2021 appearance.

I’ve adjusted my no-D league stance to “at least make sure the D league games he plays will be in some way NBA relevant.” I don’t want him playing in glorified 24 hour fitness runs. The things that will work for him in those games will be a detriment to his NBA prospects. Otherwise he can learn the way 19 and 20 year old big men have learned for about a century…in practice

But who is he going against in practice? A bunch of guys 6'9'' or shorter?

Loon is 6’9 with. 7’5 wingspan and is a established NBA center. Draymond battles the best Cs in the NBA night in night out and Bjelly is 6’11 so which one of those guys is a 6’7” D league wing playing C in a glorified pickup game?

[Onus]

He needs to play organized basketball and he needs to play where he has to contend with opponent hands at his altitude. I’m not taking about post ups either. I’m talking about protecting the paint, rebounding, catch and protecting the ball. The comp doesn’t need to be NBA caliber per se, but if he’s playing against 6’7 guys playing center he is going to learn more bad habits than good.

I disagree that he went back to square one every time. He took steps back, but not to the beginning and he was WAY ahead of where he started by his last 2021 appearance.

I’ve adjusted my no-D league stance to “at least make sure the D league games he plays will be in some way NBA relevant.” I don’t want him playing in glorified 24 hour fitness runs. The things that will work for him in those games will be a detriment to his NBA prospects. Otherwise he can learn the way 19 and 20 year old big men have learned for about a century…in practice

But who is he going against in practice? A bunch of guys 6'9'' or shorter?

Loon is 6’9 with. 7’5 wingspan and is a established NBA center. Draymond battles the best Cs in the NBA night in night out and Bjelly is 6’11 so which one of those guys is a 6’7” D league wing playing C in a glorified pickup game?

I don't think Bjelicia is 6'11. NBA.com has him at 6'9'' https://www.nba.com/player/202357/nemanja_bjelica

so again he's going against 6'9'' players or shorter in practice. Are these guys better than what he would face in the g, obviously. But what you're worried about going against a 6'7'' center, he's basically doing the same thing here at practice but with no 5 on 5s during the regular season.

this is why i'm for getting Gasol just so Wiseman has someone with legit size to go against

[GSWFan1994]

The more I read about the new coaching staff, the more confident I am in the development of our young players.

Atkinson was really underrated in the sense that he helped develop Brooklyn's guys. Look where they are now (Allen, LeVert, Dinwiddie)... all above average starters in the league.

And our guys are surely more promising than these players.

[Sleepy51]

His BBIQ is just abysmal at this point, he has to learn how the game is played and how to react to the basics..

This is kind of the center of my argument. “The Basics” of big man play are not occurring night in and night out in D league games.

I hope that environment changes quickly. I spent a lot of my life around Minor League baseball organizations and am a huge believer in developmental leagues. I hope more big men play G league rather than bolting for Europe or OZ. I hope more Euro big men start to come here to play their way up from D league so it gets better. But the current state of basketball in America is that we hav no reliable environment to develop big men other than their first NBA contract because of the scarcity problem. The NCAA used to provide it but has been broken (for good reasons) so now big man development is fragmented and most don’t get any good until close to their second NBA contract. Because none of them are learning anything useful until they start learning it in the NBA development environment.

Hopefully the G league can be improved to become part of that environment soon.

But again, I concede that we can strategically pick and choose the better G league games to involve him in. I’m not going any farther than that. If the Cruz are plying a team with a crap frontline, JW should be on the bench at the big club’s game.

[whatisacenter]

The more I read about the new coaching staff, the more confident I am in the development of our young players.

Atkinson was really underrated in the sense that he helped develop Brooklyn's guys. Look where they are now (Allen, LeVert, Dinwiddie)... all above average starters in the league.

And our guys are surely more promising than these players.

you can already see the impact of the new coaches in the preseason.

I think Kenny will be hugely impactful with how to use Porter, Poole, Wiseman and the rookies.

[Sleepy51]

The other reason I don’t want him away from the big team for extensive periods is because a lot of the things that had him lost are things that are peculiar and unique to Warriors hoops. We don’t run traditional PnR from the arc much. We don’t put big men down in the low block. We don’t even put bigs on the baseline in range to catch and finish much. We don’t play drop coverage. We switch everything. We run a ton of DHO stuff which portions Bigs in the no man zone between the arc and the paint. We ask our big men to operate an inordinate amount of time away from both the rim and the ball, but then to still react to a shot going up and get into position to either rebound or switch to the transition game a lot more than bigs are asked to do in more traditional al systems.

That’s not what he’s going to be doing in Santa Cruz. He will mostly just be running suicides while guards jack up threes. That will improve his fitness at least, but won’t do much for his IQ.

[Onus]

The other reason I don’t want him away from the big team for extensive periods is because a lot of the things that had him lost are things that are peculiar and unique to Warriors hoops. We don’t run traditional PnR from the arc much. We don’t put big men down in the low block. We don’t even put bigs on the baseline in range to catch and finish much. We don’t play drop coverage. We switch everything. We run a ton of DHO stuff which portions Bigs in the no man zone between the arc and the paint. We ask our big men to operate an inordinate amount of time away from both the rim and the ball, but then to still react to a shot going up and get into position to either rebound or switch to the transition game a lot more than bigs are asked to do in more traditional al systems.

That’s not what he’s going to be doing in Santa Cruz. He will mostly just be running suicides while guards jack up threes. That will improve his fitness at least, but won’t do much for his IQ.

In the article they state that they don't want to ship him back and forth between the g league and big league. So if he goes down to the g he's staying there for awhile.

This is the beauty of owning santa cruz we can control what they do so they can at least try to simulate some of what we do down there. I probably expect him down there just to get some run but once they see that it does him no good they'll bring him back. I wonder if they would send Dejan down to santa cruz with him if he goes down.

[GSWFan1994]

you can already see the impact of the new coaches in the preseason.

I think Kenny will be hugely impactful with how to use Porter, Poole, Wiseman and the rookies.

I don't know about that, as I hardly ever watch any (full) games. They start at midnight here, and I have to wake up at 6am for work every day... but I trust what you (and other users) say.

Also worth noting, Porter is still 27 (will be 28 only next June). I believe it isn't far-fetched to say he could have a great bounce back season with us, a la Livingston a few years back, and then resign on a friendly deal.

As for overlapping Porter with some of the other wings (Wiggins, Kuminga, Moody, etc)... I say it's never enough to have lots of wings on the roster.

This team will be better just by allocating the minutes on our wing rotation to more capable players.

[watch1958]

The other reason I don’t want him away from the big team for extensive periods is because a lot of the things that had him lost are things that are peculiar and unique to Warriors hoops. We don’t run traditional PnR from the arc much. We don’t put big men down in the low block. We don’t even put bigs on the baseline in range to catch and finish much. We don’t play drop coverage. We switch everything. We run a ton of DHO stuff which portions Bigs in the no man zone between the arc and the paint. We ask our big men to operate an inordinate amount of time away from both the rim and the ball, but then to still react to a shot going up and get into position to either rebound or switch to the transition game a lot more than bigs are asked to do in more traditional al systems.

That’s not what he’s going to be doing in Santa Cruz. He will mostly just be running suicides while guards jack up threes. That will improve his fitness at least, but won’t do much for his IQ.

You could be right about Santa Cruz. You would think that with hand picked coaches they’d be able to get the point across to their wings: learn to play the way we want or you’re gone.

[watch1958]

If nothing else, they should make sure there is a big on the roster so that he has someone to fight with in scrimmage in Santa Cruz.

[marthafokker]

Dubbs used to have their kids shuttled between SC and Oaktown during our dynasty. That way, the kids get practices with the big club. And get a lot of playing time in SC games.

Just too bad most of them sucked.... Evans and Jones? Yuck!

[Sleepy51]

The other reason I don’t want him away from the big team for extensive periods is because a lot of the things that had him lost are things that are peculiar and unique to Warriors hoops. We don’t run traditional PnR from the arc much. We don’t put big men down in the low block. We don’t even put bigs on the baseline in range to catch and finish much. We don’t play drop coverage. We switch everything. We run a ton of DHO stuff which portions Bigs in the no man zone between the arc and the paint. We ask our big men to operate an inordinate amount of time away from both the rim and the ball, but then to still react to a shot going up and get into position to either rebound or switch to the transition game a lot more than bigs are asked to do in more traditional al systems.

That’s not what he’s going to be doing in Santa Cruz. He will mostly just be running suicides while guards jack up threes. That will improve his fitness at least, but won’t do much for his IQ.

You could be right about Santa Cruz. You would think that with hand picked coaches they’d be able to get the point across to their wings: learn to play the way we want or you’re gone.

Hey, you could also be right about our close control over Santa Cruz translating into a more structured and at lease better g league environment. This was actually one of the things Lacob was referring to when he talked about their organization being “light years ahead.” But we can control what kids of flotsam JW will play against in Santa Cruz, unless we pick his spots.

I do not want him learning rebounding habits while towering over everyone else on the court and I don’t want him leaping all over the place to swat bad forays in the paint by streetball munchkins…and I really don’t want him to continue lax ball security habits because he can hold rebounds with one hand over everybody else’s head.

I’m a statistically unusually tall person and I learned a host of bad basketball habits by never playing against like sized bodies. There are things you just can’t learn to use an unusually tall body for until another big dog is in your space making you learn them.

[Sleepy51]

I just can't quit this topic .... the other reason to keep him around the big club as much as we can? Anyone who is going to be valuable to this organization now or into the future needs to learn to play with Steph Curry (and potentially Jordan Poole down the road ) Wiseman may take 5 years to become good, like Jermaine O'Neal. But sometimes the slow, patient, harder route is the best path to meaningful success.

[watch1958]

Just to be clear, when I think about him going to Santa Cruz, I’m referring to him getting a couple of weeks of 5 on 5 scrimmages and a handful of games. Basically a pre-season.

[Sleepy51]

Just to be clear, when I think about him going to Santa Cruz, I’m referring to him getting a couple of weeks of 5 on 5 scrimmages and a handful of games. Basically a pre-season.

I don’t have a problem with that at all. I just don’t want them to try to “develop” him there. We play better basketball that everyone else in GSW. He can learn to play better basketball. He’s multi-lingual. He comes off as incredibly intelligent and has all the requisite physical tools to express that intelligence in sports. He doesn’t need a softer path. He needs training.

All the body language gurus saying he was doomed because last year was hard are just telling on themselves. A lot of people including analytical, sensitive or introverted ones respond to the negative feelings of struggle by overcoming it. The assumption that he’s going to fail because he cried about getting injured or because he “didn’t look like he was having enough fun” says a lot more about the podcaster than it does about JW.

[Twinkie defense]

I assume Warriors will use the G-League to round Wiseman into game shape early in the season, and then bring him back to SF for the rest of the way.

[FNQ]

His BBIQ is just abysmal at this point, he has to learn how the game is played and how to react to the basics..

This is kind of the center of my argument. “The Basics” of big man play are not occurring night in and night out in D league games.

I hope that environment changes quickly. I spent a lot of my life around Minor League baseball organizations and am a huge believer in developmental leagues. I hope more big men play G league rather than bolting for Europe or OZ. I hope more Euro big men start to come here to play their way up from D league so it gets better. But the current state of basketball in America is that we hav no reliable environment to develop big men other than their first NBA contract because of the scarcity problem. The NCAA used to provide it but has been broken (for good reasons) so now big man development is fragmented and most don’t get any good until close to their second NBA contract. Because none of them are learning anything useful until they start learning it in the NBA development environment.

Hopefully the G league can be improved to become part of that environment soon.

But again, I concede that we can strategically pick and choose the better G league games to involve him in. I’m not going any farther than that. If the Cruz are plying a team with a crap frontline, JW should be on the bench at the big club’s game.

I dont think we give him the ball much in typical big man situations. He often had it on the perimeter, like we tend to do with our Cs, and he was to survey, attack, or give it up. What will make him good for us is being the more running big man, someone able to think on his feet.. and in that way, the GLeague is perfect for him. If he can attack forwards off the dribble, he should be well prepared to attack Cs off the dribble. He may get stuffed at the rim more in the NBA, but that's workable, as long as he has his basics down - when to dribble, how to use triple-threat, and when to just cycle it.

That doesnt apply to most Cs, but Wiseman isnt most Cs and we arent most teams. Unless our goal is to build him as a back to the basket C exclusively, there's no real harm in having him develop his IQ and perimeter game, because that's where he got the ball most in halfcourt sets

[Chupchup]

The other reason I don’t want him away from the big team for extensive periods is because a lot of the things that had him lost are things that are peculiar and unique to Warriors hoops. We don’t run traditional PnR from the arc much. We don’t put big men down in the low block. We don’t even put bigs on the baseline in range to catch and finish much. We don’t play drop coverage. We switch everything. We run a ton of DHO stuff which portions Bigs in the no man zone between the arc and the paint. We ask our big men to operate an inordinate amount of time away from both the rim and the ball, but then to still react to a shot going up and get into position to either rebound or switch to the transition game a lot more than bigs are asked to do in more traditional al systems.

That’s not what he’s going to be doing in Santa Cruz. He will mostly just be running suicides while guards jack up threes. That will improve his fitness at least, but won’t do much for his IQ.

Santa Cruz Warriors are the Warriors G League team. They run the same system so a lot of what he will learn will be applicable when he returns to the main team. Granted the players will be different but if all he does is sit on the bench or play garbage minutes then I'm not sure it'll help him that much on the main team.

I just want to see him dominate the G League. If he can't dominate in G League games then he's not ready to even try NBA games. And yes dominating in G League games does not mean he'll do the same in the NBA Games but if he can't dominate G League then it's not good!

[Sleepy51]

His BBIQ is just abysmal at this point, he has to learn how the game is played and how to react to the basics..

This is kind of the center of my argument. “The Basics” of big man play are not occurring night in and night out in D league games.

I hope that environment changes quickly. I spent a lot of my life around Minor League baseball organizations and am a huge believer in developmental leagues. I hope more big men play G league rather than bolting for Europe or OZ. I hope more Euro big men start to come here to play their way up from D league so it gets better. But the current state of basketball in America is that we hav no reliable environment to develop big men other than their first NBA contract because of the scarcity problem. The NCAA used to provide it but has been broken (for good reasons) so now big man development is fragmented and most don’t get any good until close to their second NBA contract. Because none of them are learning anything useful until they start learning it in the NBA development environment.

Hopefully the G league can be improved to become part of that environment soon.

But again, I concede that we can strategically pick and choose the better G league games to involve him in. I’m not going any farther than that. If the Cruz are plying a team with a crap frontline, JW should be on the bench at the big club’s game.

I dont think we give him the ball much in typical big man situations. He often had it on the perimeter, like we tend to do with our Cs, and he was to survey, attack, or give it up. What will make him good for us is being the more running big man, someone able to think on his feet.. and in that way, the GLeague is perfect for him. If he can attack forwards off the dribble, he should be well prepared to attack Cs off the dribble. He may get stuffed at the rim more in the NBA, but that's workable, as long as he has his basics down - when to dribble, how to use triple-threat, and when to just cycle it.

That doesnt apply to most Cs, but Wiseman isnt most Cs and we arent most teams. Unless our goal is to build him as a back to the basket C exclusively, there's no real harm in having him develop his IQ and perimeter game, because that's where he got the ball most in halfcourt sets

Plausible, but I still get images of Baby Jesus running PG in summer league and it gives me the heaves thinking about that again. No, we don't use a C in the traditional roles, but our C's are still going to have to do big man things with other big bodies on the floor. The BIGGEST challenge to 7 footers in the NBA is learning to function with other players from 6'9" up engaging you in physical combat. I don't want him developing a false game against irrelevant comp. That's all. I'm sure there's a way to balance and make the most of all the resources available to him. It doesn't have to be all or nothing of anything.

[ShootersShoot]

G league did wonders for poole, why would we think it wouldnt help jw? The guys going to play like 10-15 min a game anyways, he can be sent down and we wont have to worry about fatigue or anything like that.