Get Curry back to his normal rotations

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I don't even know what muscle imbalances mean but I got a muscle imblance question.
Wiseman clearly has lifted some weights this last year. it shows in his arms.

But to push back on Ayton Wiseman does not need strong arms. He needs a strong lower body and strong abdominal muscles. One knee had to be babied. Maybe No heavy weight lifting allowed involving the damaged knee. Suppose Wiseman massively strengthed the healthy leg and the attached glutes/butt muscles on one side of his body.

Is there anything worong with one side of your body being stronger than the other side of your body?

[SpreeChokeJob]

At this point, the league is going all out to stop Curry from scoring. The rotation is try to buy him time to rest more in between.

They need to pair him with at least 3 deep threats to make the opponents pay so they don’t guard him so closely.

[michaelm]

It will be a shame for us Curry fans if he continues to get only very poor looks from 3 point range, but the team winning with a barrage of threes from Klay might make it more bearable. There might be more avenues for Curry to score inside as well.

I can't wait to see when teams keep doubling Steph and Klay starts burying them. At that point they have to guard Klay tight and magically Steph's percentages start to rise again. But it's actually Steph's 2P% that is down the most so hopefully Klay will open up driving lanes and allow him some cleaner finishes.

I am hoping for a ‘now witness the power of this fully armed and operational battle station’ moment this season but this is probably too much to hope for even with Klay let alone Wiseman.

[Scoots1994]

I don't even know what muscle imbalances mean but I got a muscle imblance question.
Wiseman clearly has lifted some weights this last year. it shows in his arms.

But to push back on Ayton Wiseman does not need strong arms. He needs a strong lower body and strong abdominal muscles. One knee had to be babied. Maybe No heavy weight lifting allowed involving the damaged knee. Suppose Wiseman massively strengthed the healthy leg and the attached glutes/butt muscles on one side of his body.

Is there anything worong with one side of your body being stronger than the other side of your body?

Yes. If one side of your body is weaker than the other it tends to lead to more injuries.

[oaktownwarriors87]

The Warriors have the best record in the NBA and Curry is the top MVP candidate.

Why change it? Curry's normal rotation has him playing less in the 4th, while playing longer stretches and getting less rest. How does that sound good?

The new rotation give curry more rest, more time in the 4th, and more opportunities to play with more lineups. Those lineups are killing it.

Just look at how much better he has been without Green this year:

Curry without Green
+20.7 with a 63.4% TS and scores 32.0 points per 36 minutes

Curry with Green
+13.9 with a 59.6% TS and scores 27.0 point per 36 minutes

He played 413 without Green last year. We're not even half way through the season and he's already played 384. These new rotations have been amazing.

[TwoStarz]

I don't even know what muscle imbalances mean but I got a muscle imblance question.
Wiseman clearly has lifted some weights this last year. it shows in his arms.

But to push back on Ayton Wiseman does not need strong arms. He needs a strong lower body and strong abdominal muscles. One knee had to be babied. Maybe No heavy weight lifting allowed involving the damaged knee. Suppose Wiseman massively strengthed the healthy leg and the attached glutes/butt muscles on one side of his body.

Is there anything worong with one side of your body being stronger than the other side of your body?

Absolutely, muscular imbalances leads to more and more overusage of one side. You will also continue to develop more of an imbalance if it isn't corrected.

This is hardly the case with people after they have went through an extensive and proper rehab (especially an athlete like Klay with the world best resources at his disposal). That is why in many cases players come back stronger and better after an ACL injury (probably the most common "devastating" injury in sports). Its because they have likely never trained the way they had to for a rehab. It should also theoretically prevent injury further down the road.

For Klay's case, they have been monitoring his kinetic chain to ensure there is no imbalances and that he is pushing off both feet using the same force. This is how they cleared him to play, once the saw he was exerting the same force with his ruptured Achilles leg, than he was with the non-surgically repaired one ( I know he had an ACL on that leg).

Don't let that one dude tell you that Rehab and Physical Therapy is common sense.

[GunnerWRX]

I don't know if it will fix some of his shooting woes, but it's worth a shot to see. It was an adorable little experiment from Kerr. If the intention was to lose at a significantly higher rate than before the rotations were changed. If that was the goal, he nailed it.



Why is he still going on with this 25 games into the season?

This is factually inaccurate. The rotation got changed first in the 2nd OKC game... game 6.
https://www.thewarriorstalk.com/blog/2021/11/6/have-steve-kerrs-recent-rotations-been-affecting-steph-curry

At that point in the season we were 4-1. An .800 winning percentage.
On the season the Warriors are 27-7. A .794 winning percentage. Not a significant difference. Especially when you consider the Warriors are 1-1 without Steph Curry. Meaning they are 26-6 with him... a .812 winning percentage.
.812 > .800.

Onto Steph's individual stats...
Prior to the switch: 30.4 ppg, 41.9% fg, 38.46% 3pt, 6.6 ast, 4.4 tov
Season averages: 27.7 ppg, 43.3% fg, 39.7% 3pt, 5.9 ast, 3.4 tov

So he's shooting less, but at a better %. Also with a better ast / tov ratio after the switch.

So dislike the rotation all you want, there are things I dislike about it... but the fact of the matter is that he's not doing any worse than he did prior to the switch... and neither is the team.
So come up with an argument that isn't complete BS... or at least wait till we lose a few more games without Draymond.

Other stats to keep in mind:
Team fg%, and team ast/tov ratios are better than what Curry is averaging thus far.

23 - 6 ie games since the rotation change if it was at the time GSW had a 4 - 1 record is also a 0.793 win rate. 5 games is not much of a sample size anyway and they were being criticised/diminished for having an easy schedule early season.

Appreciate a fact based post.

This thread is trending weirdly with an original post having a premise based on something made up.

And people following that basis and making arguments on the rotations just turning a blind eye to it.

Weird. But this is the society we live in now I guess.

[TwoStarz]

The Warriors have the best record in the NBA and Curry is the top MVP candidate.

Why change it? Curry's normal rotation has him playing less in the 4th, while playing longer stretches and getting less rest. How does that sound good?

The new rotation give curry more rest, more time in the 4th, and more opportunities to play with more lineups. Those lineups are killing it.

Just look at how much better he has been without Green this year:

Curry without Green
+20.7 with a 63.4% TS and scores 32.0 points per 36 minutes

Curry with Green
+13.9 with a 59.6% TS and scores 27.0 point per 36 minutes

He played 413 without Green last year. We're not even half way through the season and he's already played 384. These new rotations have been amazing.

Is he though? Maybe in the narrative and media department but Curry sure as hell hasn't been playing like the top MVP candidate individually. I've been harping on this forever now, something seems different, and not in a good way. He misses wide open threes, causing his % to plummet to a career LOW and his finishing at the rim has been as poor as ever also. Combine that with a non-existent midrange game now (he throws up these awkward looking floaters that have no chance of going in, instead of just rising up for a proper jump shot) and you have an aging superstar that is just launching from behind the 3 point line at an absurd rate. Now all that would be fine and dandy, because the greatest shooter of all time he is, but he is shooting them at a career low.

People that keep coming back to regular season record are missing the point, warriors won't win meaningful games if this continues. Last I checked, winning playoff games was the goal, especially for players of the caliber of Curry, Green and Klay.

I don't think rotations have much or anything to do with this. You don't just drop that badly in individual statistics by playing a slightly different rotation. I mean he is going to be 34 by the time playoffs roll around. It makes me sad to even consider that he might be declining cause I love watching the rascal play.

But to the OP's point, I would try anything at this point to get him to play better. This team will go as far as 30 shoots them.

[oaktownwarriors87]

The Warriors have the best record in the NBA and Curry is the top MVP candidate.

Why change it? Curry's normal rotation has him playing less in the 4th, while playing longer stretches and getting less rest. How does that sound good?

The new rotation give curry more rest, more time in the 4th, and more opportunities to play with more lineups. Those lineups are killing it.

Just look at how much better he has been without Green this year:

Curry without Green
+20.7 with a 63.4% TS and scores 32.0 points per 36 minutes

Curry with Green
+13.9 with a 59.6% TS and scores 27.0 point per 36 minutes

He played 413 without Green last year. We're not even half way through the season and he's already played 384. These new rotations have been amazing.

Is he though? Maybe in the narrative and media department but Curry sure as hell hasn't been playing like the top MVP candidate individually. I've been harping on this forever now, something seems different, and not in a good way. He misses wide open threes, causing his % to plummet to a career LOW and his finishing at the rim has been as poor as ever also. Combine that with a non-existent midrange game now (he throws up these awkward looking floaters that have no chance of going in, instead of just rising up for a proper jump shot) and you have an aging superstar that is just launching from behind the 3 point line at an absurd rate. Now all that would be fine and dandy, because the greatest shooter of all time he is, but he is shooting them at a career low.

People that keep coming back to regular season record are missing the point, warriors won't win meaningful games if this continues. Last I checked, winning playoff games was the goal, especially for players of the caliber of Curry, Green and Klay.

I don't think rotations have much or anything to do with this. You don't just drop that badly in individual statistics by playing a slightly different rotation. I mean he is going to be 34 by the time playoffs roll around. It makes me sad to even consider that he might be declining cause I love watching the rascal play.

But to the OP's point, I would try anything at this point to get him to play better. This team will go as far as 30 shoots them.

Best player on the best team. Not just the best team by record, but also by SRS.

#2 in PPG (behind Durant)
#3 in VORP behind (Jokic and Giannis)
#4 in WS (behind Jokic, Gobert & Giannis)
#4 in BPM (behind Jokic, Giannis & Butler)

It's Curry, Jokic, Giannis and maybe Gobert or Durant at the top. Vegas has him #1.

The NBA just got a new ball and a few new rules. The entire league is having it's worst shooting season from beyond the arc since 03/04. It's the worst shooting year of his career, but it's also the leagues worst shooting year of his career. Relative the the rest of the league is shooting percentage from 3 is almost identical to last year.

[TB]

He's also historically worse in December for whatever reason. There is no guarantee that he goes on a crazy flurry 2nd half of season, but I'd expect his percentages to creep up as the season progresses.

TwoStars had a great point about his mid range game, and some people on twitter broke it down as well (or maybe it was on here...). He's definitely removed a few mid-range jumpers per game this year, wether intentionally or not. Instead they are more 3's or trying to get all the way to the hoop. Now, his at the rim numbers are going to go up because we have all seen some of the bunnies he has missed, but it might not be terrible to get going with a few mid-range shots here and there like he has throughout his career. Keep the defense from totally selling out on his skip passes off the drive. I think that may the part that sticks out most to me... he's driving and going for the big skip passes more than I can ever remember, and getting caught in the air doing it instead of just trusting the floater to score.

All of this will be fine though... It's Steph Curry, he doesn't need game plan advice from anyone on here.

[jaymo123]

At first, I did not like the rotation because I think it affected Steph mentally. Kerr mentioned that the other day especially for a player who like most top athletes, has a routine. Steph has had the same routine for almost a decade, so it can be a bit difficult to change at first. It seems to me he is starting to make better adjustments and I am not a person who worries about his fg% because I'd rather have Steph being aggressive than not shooting at all. The only thing I don't like about Steph at times is him going for the hero/home run shot.

[Impuniti]

This is factually inaccurate. The rotation got changed first in the 2nd OKC game... game 6.
https://www.thewarriorstalk.com/blog/2021/11/6/have-steve-kerrs-recent-rotations-been-affecting-steph-curry

At that point in the season we were 4-1. An .800 winning percentage.
On the season the Warriors are 27-7. A .794 winning percentage. Not a significant difference. Especially when you consider the Warriors are 1-1 without Steph Curry. Meaning they are 26-6 with him... a .812 winning percentage.
.812 > .800.

Onto Steph's individual stats...
Prior to the switch: 30.4 ppg, 41.9% fg, 38.46% 3pt, 6.6 ast, 4.4 tov
Season averages: 27.7 ppg, 43.3% fg, 39.7% 3pt, 5.9 ast, 3.4 tov

So he's shooting less, but at a better %. Also with a better ast / tov ratio after the switch.

So dislike the rotation all you want, there are things I dislike about it... but the fact of the matter is that he's not doing any worse than he did prior to the switch... and neither is the team.
So come up with an argument that isn't complete BS... or at least wait till we lose a few more games without Draymond.

Other stats to keep in mind:
Team fg%, and team ast/tov ratios are better than what Curry is averaging thus far.

23 - 6 ie games since the rotation change if it was at the time GSW had a 4 - 1 record is also a 0.793 win rate. 5 games is not much of a sample size anyway and they were being criticised/diminished for having an easy schedule early season.

Appreciate a fact based post.

This thread is trending weirdly with an original post having a premise based on something made up.

And people following that basis and making arguments on the rotations just turning a blind eye to it.

Weird. But this is the society we live in now I guess.

Yeah, I was 100% wrong on this. I read somewhere that it was the first 11 games, but that's on me. Not anyone else.

Either way, it sucks that Steph is shooting so bad. Good news is, he's still impactful and the team is really good.

[michaelm]

23 - 6 ie games since the rotation change if it was at the time GSW had a 4 - 1 record is also a 0.793 win rate. 5 games is not much of a sample size anyway and they were being criticised/diminished for having an easy schedule early season.

Appreciate a fact based post.

This thread is trending weirdly with an original post having a premise based on something made up.

And people following that basis and making arguments on the rotations just turning a blind eye to it.

Weird. But this is the society we live in now I guess.

Yeah, I was 100% wrong on this. I read somewhere that it was the first 11 games, but that's on me. Not anyone else.

Either way, it sucks that Steph is shooting so bad. Good news is, he's still impactful and the team is really good.

Absolutely. Particularly satisfying that they were derided for trading for Wiggins, and how they have developed Poole/how Poole has developed given he was a pick in the high 20s iirc. Somehow I guess they will still be called an unfairly stacked team.

Perhaps Steph is just showing the guy on the general board who insists he isn’t really a PG that he can get 10 assists a game if he feels like it.

[michaelm]

double

[clyde21]

people still pretending the rotations have nothing to do with with Steph being off-rhythm is laughable...is it everything? no, clearly Steph is just off right now....but for a rhythm player cadence and timing is a huge part of the equation, and that starts with minutes and rotations.

shooting 39% the last 15 games...that is THE worst of his career over a 15 game stretch...he's taking 20 attempts per game and 14 of them (70%) are 3s. that is just insane. i don't like one dimensional Steph, and if I am a defense knowing that Steph is going to take 70% of his shots from 3 that just makes him a little easier to defend.

1) we gotta back to regular rotations, I don't give a **** about getting Poole comfortable. he's going back to the bench anyways when Klay is back. Steph needs to play the entire 1st/3rd quarters. period

2) Steph needs to go back to a 50/50 distribution of 2s to 3s. 70% of his shots from 3 point land is just insanity. yes, GOAT shooter, but he's becoming way too one dimensional at this point and causing some high variance games. there is a reason we're seeing more dud games happen at higher frequency now. gotta mix in some more middys and more drives.

3) gotta put Steph more on ball. yea, best off-ball player we've ever seen and that's what makes him infinitely dangerous...but running through screens/picks all game long while getting bumped and held for 30+ minutes on a daily basis is, imo, starting to take a huge toll on his body. he's supremely conditioned but no one is infallible. i don't mind running these sets in high leverage games, but in very winnable RS games there is no need to have Steph just running around the entire game looking for pockets and holes. put the ball in his hands and have him run actual half court sets and PnRs.

i know, we shouldn't question anything Kerr does but just my two cents.

[clyde21]

He's also historically worse in December for whatever reason. There is no guarantee that he goes on a crazy flurry 2nd half of season, but I'd expect his percentages to creep up as the season progresses.

TwoStars had a great point about his mid range game, and some people on twitter broke it down as well (or maybe it was on here...). He's definitely removed a few mid-range jumpers per game this year, wether intentionally or not. Instead they are more 3's or trying to get all the way to the hoop. Now, his at the rim numbers are going to go up because we have all seen some of the bunnies he has missed, but it might not be terrible to get going with a few mid-range shots here and there like he has throughout his career. Keep the defense from totally selling out on his skip passes off the drive. I think that may the part that sticks out most to me... he's driving and going for the big skip passes more than I can ever remember, and getting caught in the air doing it instead of just trusting the floater to score.

All of this will be fine though... It's Steph Curry, he doesn't need game plan advice from anyone on here.

well imma give it to him anyways.

70% of his shots have been 3s. he's becoming way too one dimensional. his MVP years the ratio was pretty much 50/50. that's what we need to go back to. more middys and more drives. he can get open shots in those ranges any time he wants.

[TB]

He's also historically worse in December for whatever reason. There is no guarantee that he goes on a crazy flurry 2nd half of season, but I'd expect his percentages to creep up as the season progresses.

TwoStars had a great point about his mid range game, and some people on twitter broke it down as well (or maybe it was on here...). He's definitely removed a few mid-range jumpers per game this year, wether intentionally or not. Instead they are more 3's or trying to get all the way to the hoop. Now, his at the rim numbers are going to go up because we have all seen some of the bunnies he has missed, but it might not be terrible to get going with a few mid-range shots here and there like he has throughout his career. Keep the defense from totally selling out on his skip passes off the drive. I think that may the part that sticks out most to me... he's driving and going for the big skip passes more than I can ever remember, and getting caught in the air doing it instead of just trusting the floater to score.

All of this will be fine though... It's Steph Curry, he doesn't need game plan advice from anyone on here.

well imma give it to him anyways.

70% of his shots have been 3s. he's becoming way too one dimensional. his MVP years the ratio was pretty much 50/50. that's what we need to go back to. more middys and more drives. he can get open shots in those ranges any time he wants.

Yup I agree with this. I also wrote that after also giving advice in the paragraph before lol. What I should have wrote is, "I'm sure Steph knows all of this stuff we are saying".

Proof that he knows it is last game he clearly tried to take a few more mid-range shots to keep the defense honest from selling out on the 3 and rim.

But the points you made are absolutely correct. The ratio of 3 to 2 is off. The percentage of wide open 3's is down. And the percentage at the rim are down. All 3 of those issues are not WAY off, but Steph is so good that you combine the three and its a noticeable change from constant Curry Flurry's to well, still one of the best players in the league.

I do think those 3 factors will get corrected as the season goes on, rather than us seeing a Father Time situation played out in real time. The layups he's missing he obviously can make and the wide open 3's he obviously can make. Once he starts hitting those 3s more consistently things should open up even more in the midrange and rim... especially once Klay is back. He just needs a bit of swagger and confidence back.

[clyde21]

He's also historically worse in December for whatever reason. There is no guarantee that he goes on a crazy flurry 2nd half of season, but I'd expect his percentages to creep up as the season progresses.

TwoStars had a great point about his mid range game, and some people on twitter broke it down as well (or maybe it was on here...). He's definitely removed a few mid-range jumpers per game this year, wether intentionally or not. Instead they are more 3's or trying to get all the way to the hoop. Now, his at the rim numbers are going to go up because we have all seen some of the bunnies he has missed, but it might not be terrible to get going with a few mid-range shots here and there like he has throughout his career. Keep the defense from totally selling out on his skip passes off the drive. I think that may the part that sticks out most to me... he's driving and going for the big skip passes more than I can ever remember, and getting caught in the air doing it instead of just trusting the floater to score.

All of this will be fine though... It's Steph Curry, he doesn't need game plan advice from anyone on here.

well imma give it to him anyways.

70% of his shots have been 3s. he's becoming way too one dimensional. his MVP years the ratio was pretty much 50/50. that's what we need to go back to. more middys and more drives. he can get open shots in those ranges any time he wants.

Yup I agree with this. I also wrote that after also giving advice in the paragraph before lol. What I should have wrote is, "I'm sure Steph knows all of this stuff we are saying".

does he though? he's been trending up every year in terms of 3s to 2s he takes. last year he had a career high of 12.7 3s per game, only to beat that this year with 13.4 per game. it seems like he's drifting away from that 2016 balance he had more and more every season, and I don't think it's a coincidence that he's been more inconsistent than ever with the more 3s that he's taking.

not sure if this is just Steph falling way too in love with it, or Kerr's gameplan, or maybe a combination of both, but I really think he needs to cut those attempts by about 3 per game and go back to a 50/50 split asap.

[TB]

I mean I don't know if he knows this, but assuming they have all the data needed. It probably is a combo of all of that, and maybe even a little bit of age causing a player to drift out to perimeter more. Guessing confidence and rotations play a factor, trying to get going or get into rhythm quickly in his shorter stints of play time. So ya, all of it.

I think he's going to start hitting those open 3's and bunny layups more, or Kerr is going to be forced to switch the rotations up. if that 15 game slump because a 25 game slump then Kerr really needs to look at changing things to help Steph out, even if we are still winning.

[shazam_guy]

Gee, maybe Steph taking more threes has something to do with the fact he gets hammered over and over again when going anywhere near the key, and he's just getting too old for that ****. Maybe all the rotation adjustments in the world aren't going to do anything to change that, since it started -- as Clyde himself pointed out -- before any of the rotation changes.