Trade Oubre PRONTO.

Twinkie defense · Post #441 » by **Twinkie defense** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:28 am

Sleepy51 wrote:
mos_def wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:

So do you have him starting over Wiggins or Klay next year?

Neither. He is 6th man and probably the replacement for Draymond eventually. Klay probably isn't going to play heavy minutes next year too

He’s not going to sign for 6th man money if he can get starter money elsewhere. We are not marrying ourselves to a low IQ wing at starters money if the mission is to max out Steph’s window in this system. I know it’s heartbreaking for the highlight dunks y’all crowd, but this dude ain’t for us. Never was. He was signed to preserve salary shelf space. That’s all it ever was.

"Starting" is a lame concept. Players will play, and all the good players will get minutes. Hopefully the bad players will get little to no minutes. Warriors have his Bird Rights and will only let Oubre go if it's some transaction that makes the team better and not to save money.

Post #442 » by **Sleepy51** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:07 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:
mos_def wrote:
Neither. He is 6th man and probably the replacement for Draymond eventually. Klay probably isn't going to play heavy minutes next year too

He’s not going to sign for 6th man money if he can get starter money elsewhere. We are not marrying ourselves to a low IQ wing at starters money if the mission is to max out Steph’s window in this system. I know it’s heartbreaking for the highlight dunks y’all crowd, but this dude ain’t for us. Never was. He was signed to preserve salary shelf space. That’s all it ever was.

"Starting" is a lame concept. Players will play, and all the good players will get minutes. Hopefully the bad players will get little to no minutes. Warriors have his Bird Rights and will only let Oubre go if it's some transaction that makes the team better and not to save money.

Stop thinking myopically. It's not about the depth chart. It's about the allocation of resources in a closed system.

We are not going to match an overpaid contract for Oubre to be a sixth man...or at least you better hope we're not.

That doesn't mean he leaves for nothing. It means we trade him at the deadline which is what was always the plan. He was the most reasonable way to preserve the space above the cap. They are not intent on giving that space up, but they are also not going to boat anchor the rest of Steph's prime to an albatross contract on a low IQ wing. Unless Klay is toast the minutes are simply not there to get "starters" money-worth out of Oubre on a high IQ team intending to compete with other high IQ contenders.

If you match what Oubre is worth to a bad team that needs highlights to fill seats, to have him be an energy role player (which JTA does better on this team) then you are boxed into include Wiggins in any trade to bring in a difference maker. FNQ covered this in detail weeks ago. But keep wishing.

If you are going to add the talent that this team needs to be a contender then you have to upgrade using either Oubre or Wiggins. The choice is obvious.

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #443 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:49 pm

Oubre has been lighting it up since January 30th (20.2/6.5 on 49.2/45.3 shooting), but I feel like they've been catering to him way too much on the offensive end.

Since January 30th, here's all these guys without & with Oubre (per 100 posessions):

Code: Select all

Player    w/o Oubre  min   w/Oubre  min   net

Lee         +21.80   125    -11.6   127   +33.4
Wiggins     +19.30   119     +2.5   278   +16.8
Wanamker     +9.10   105     -8.4    98   +17.5
Green       +23.10    88     +2.9   274   +20.2
Curry       +24.50    88     +6.3   295   +18.2
Paschall    +15.50    85     -5.5    88   +21.0
Mulder      +20.70    68     -6.2    75   +26.9
Tuscano     +14.60    48     +1.3   243   +13.3

Wiggins, Green, Curry and Tuscano are all positive with Oubre. However, they are much better without him.

I see Curry/Green/Wiggins as the big 3. They're +19.6 without Oubre this season (143 minutes).

Without Oubre (season total):

Curry/Green/Wiggins/Bazemore is +23.4 in 67 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Looney is +26.7 in 42 minutes (+26.6 in 74 minutes with Oubre)
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Toscano is +17.6 in 25 minutes (+4.0 in 125 minutes with Oubre)
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Lee is +35.5 in 39 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Wiseman is +0.0 in 45 minutes (-16.5 in 171 minutes with Oubre)
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Mulder is -39.6 in 23 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Paschall is +59.9 in 9 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Wanamaker is +43.3 in 33 minutes

Post #444 » by **FNQ** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:03 am

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Oubre has been lighting it up since January 30th (20.2/6.5 on 49.2/45.3 shooting), but I feel like they've been catering to him way too much on the offensive end.

Since January 30th, here's all these guys without & with Oubre (per 100 posessions):

Code: Select all
Player w/o Oubre min w/Oubre min net Lee +21.80 125 -11.6 127 +33.4 Wiggins +19.30 119 +2.5 278 +16.8 Wanamker +9.10 105 -8.4 98 +17.5 Green +23.10 88 +2.9 274 +20.2 Curry +24.50 88 +6.3 295 +18.2 Paschall +15.50 85 -5.5 88 +21.0 Mulder +20.70 68 -6.2 75 +26.9 Tuscano +14.60 48 +1.3 243 +13.3

I dunno that its catering to him, its just that this is who he is.. he does better in halfcourt sets where instincts arent required. Where he can isolate and go one on one, or just hit open jumpers. I love that he blows kisses, because it always reminds me: "Keep It Simple, Stupid" - which is exactly what you'd likely want to say to Oubre constantly

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #445 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:22 am

FNQ wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Oubre has been lighting it up since January 30th (20.2/6.5 on 49.2/45.3 shooting), but I feel like they've been catering to him way too much on the offensive end.

Since January 30th, here's all these guys without & with Oubre (per 100 posessions):

Code: Select all
Player w/o Oubre min w/Oubre min net Lee +21.80 125 -11.6 127 +33.4 Wiggins +19.30 119 +2.5 278 +16.8 Wanamker +9.10 105 -8.4 98 +17.5 Green +23.10 88 +2.9 274 +20.2 Curry +24.50 88 +6.3 295 +18.2 Paschall +15.50 85 -5.5 88 +21.0 Mulder +20.70 68 -6.2 75 +26.9 Tuscano +14.60 48 +1.3 243 +13.3

I dunno that its catering to him, its just that this is who he is.. he does better in halfcourt sets where instincts arent required. Where he can isolate and go one on one, or just hit open jumpers. I love that he blows kisses, because it always reminds me: "Keep It Simple, Stupid" - which is exactly what you'd likely want to say to Oubre constantly

Team points per 100 possessions since January 30th:

With Oubre and without Curry: 94.0
With Oubre and with Curry: 118.0
Without Oubre and with Curry: 137.5

Post #446 » by **Sleepy51** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:27 am

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Oubre has been lighting it up since January 30th (20.2/6.5 on 49.2/45.3 shooting), but I feel like they've been catering to him way too much on the offensive end.

Since January 30th, here's all these guys without & with Oubre (per 100 posessions):

Code: Select all
Player w/o Oubre min w/Oubre min net Lee +21.80 125 -11.6 127 +33.4 Wiggins +19.30 119 +2.5 278 +16.8 Wanamker +9.10 105 -8.4 98 +17.5 Green +23.10 88 +2.9 274 +20.2 Curry +24.50 88 +6.3 295 +18.2 Paschall +15.50 85 -5.5 88 +21.0 Mulder +20.70 68 -6.2 75 +26.9 Tuscano +14.60 48 +1.3 243 +13.3

Wiggins, Green, Curry and Tuscano are all positive with Oubre. However, they are much better without him.

I see Curry/Green/Wiggins as the big 3. They're +19.6 without Oubre this season (143 minutes).

Without Oubre (season total):

Curry/Green/Wiggins/Bazemore is +23.4 in 67 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Looney is +26.7 in 42 minutes (+26.6 in 74 minutes with Oubre)
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Toscano is +17.6 in 25 minutes (+4.0 in 125 minutes with Oubre)
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Lee is +35.5 in 39 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Wiseman is +0.0 in 45 minutes (-16.5 in 171 minutes with Oubre)
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Mulder is -39.6 in 23 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Paschall is +59.9 in 9 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Wanamaker is +43.3 in 33 minutes

This all points my general thesis about him, which was never about his shooting slump. He’s not an additive player with a high IQ team when playing against other high quality opponents. There are things he does well. But he doesn’t do enough of the things at a high enough level that help you compete against highly skilled and quality execution opposition. He is super athletic. So are most of the players on the floor in a contender starting 5. He hustles. So do most of the players on the floor in a contender starting five. He can hold his own in iso defense against an opponent dead set on not moving the ball. So can most of the 5 best guys on a contending team.

But his combination of those things in the doses he brings them can help you stymie opposing flawed and limited units. He’s a high quality backup. But he’s a backup on a contending team.

If we could have him AND Wiggins AND add a difference making starter like a Beal or PG3 then of course you keep him on the bench. But that’s not how the salary slots are laid out. If we are going to add a true #2 guy then Wiggs or Oubre’s salary has to be in the deal. Oubre is clearly inferior to Wiggins so it has to be him to go.

No matter how much Lacob is willing to spend we have a finite amount of salary “shelf space” and it’s not going to increase at this point. Bringing in a stud is going to consume one of those salary slots we are currently using for a wing player.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #447 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:36 am

FNQ wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Oubre has been lighting it up since January 30th (20.2/6.5 on 49.2/45.3 shooting), but I feel like they've been catering to him way too much on the offensive end.

Since January 30th, here's all these guys without & with Oubre (per 100 posessions):

Code: Select all
Player w/o Oubre min w/Oubre min net Lee +21.80 125 -11.6 127 +33.4 Wiggins +19.30 119 +2.5 278 +16.8 Wanamker +9.10 105 -8.4 98 +17.5 Green +23.10 88 +2.9 274 +20.2 Curry +24.50 88 +6.3 295 +18.2 Paschall +15.50 85 -5.5 88 +21.0 Mulder +20.70 68 -6.2 75 +26.9 Tuscano +14.60 48 +1.3 243 +13.3

I dunno that its catering to him, its just that this is who he is.. he does better in halfcourt sets where instincts arent required. Where he can isolate and go one on one, or just hit open jumpers. I love that he blows kisses, because it always reminds me: "Keep It Simple, Stupid" - which is exactly what you'd likely want to say to Oubre constantly

They arent catering the offense for him like they do with wiseman, but they are trying to maximize him more by "padding" his numbers. He just needed to make some shots to do his part.

Having all your minutes next to Curry is going to make you look good and can make you look better than you are if you hit a few open jumpers. Hes an opportunistic scorer that cant create for himself, but uses his high activity to make plays.

IM also going to guess that there are minimal defensive improvements in his numbers since january 30th and his increased net rtg is due to better offense.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #448 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:55 am

Since January 30th

Net RTG

Curry +8.8
Wiggins +7.2
Green +6.6
Oubre +2.7

ORTG

Curry 120
Green 119.2
Oubre 112.7
Wiggins 111.6

DRTG

Wiggins 104.4
Oubre 110.1
Curry 111.2
Green 112.6

Minutes/Net RTG

Curry/Green 329 +7.7
Curry/Oubre 295 +5.9
Wiggins/Oubre 278 +2.7
Green/Oubre 274 +3
Curry/Wiggins 248 +11.2

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #449 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:21 am

Sleepy51 wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Oubre has been lighting it up since January 30th (20.2/6.5 on 49.2/45.3 shooting), but I feel like they've been catering to him way too much on the offensive end.

Since January 30th, here's all these guys without & with Oubre (per 100 posessions):

Code: Select all
Player w/o Oubre min w/Oubre min net Lee +21.80 125 -11.6 127 +33.4 Wiggins +19.30 119 +2.5 278 +16.8 Wanamker +9.10 105 -8.4 98 +17.5 Green +23.10 88 +2.9 274 +20.2 Curry +24.50 88 +6.3 295 +18.2 Paschall +15.50 85 -5.5 88 +21.0 Mulder +20.70 68 -6.2 75 +26.9 Tuscano +14.60 48 +1.3 243 +13.3

Wiggins, Green, Curry and Tuscano are all positive with Oubre. However, they are much better without him.

I see Curry/Green/Wiggins as the big 3. They're +19.6 without Oubre this season (143 minutes).

Without Oubre (season total):

Curry/Green/Wiggins/Bazemore is +23.4 in 67 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Looney is +26.7 in 42 minutes (+26.6 in 74 minutes with Oubre)
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Toscano is +17.6 in 25 minutes (+4.0 in 125 minutes with Oubre)
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Lee is +35.5 in 39 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Wiseman is +0.0 in 45 minutes (-16.5 in 171 minutes with Oubre)
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Mulder is -39.6 in 23 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Paschall is +59.9 in 9 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Wanamaker is +43.3 in 33 minutes

This all points my general thesis about him, which was never about his shooting slump. He’s not an additive player with a high IQ team when playing against other high quality opponents.

It's the Bart effect

Impuniti · Post #450 » by **Impuniti** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:22 am

Great work crazy & oaktown. It's unfortunate because despite his hard workrate, he doesn't know how to play within an offense.

mos_def · Post #451 » by **mos_def** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:22 pm

I saw Dallas called us about Porzingis. I actually would keep Oubre for that.

donkeylips · Post #452 » by **donkeylips** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:56 pm

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Oubre has been lighting it up since January 30th (20.2/6.5 on 49.2/45.3 shooting), but I feel like they've been catering to him way too much on the offensive end.

Since January 30th, here's all these guys without & with Oubre (per 100 posessions):

Code: Select all
Player w/o Oubre min w/Oubre min net Lee +21.80 125 -11.6 127 +33.4 Wiggins +19.30 119 +2.5 278 +16.8 Wanamker +9.10 105 -8.4 98 +17.5 Green +23.10 88 +2.9 274 +20.2 Curry +24.50 88 +6.3 295 +18.2 Paschall +15.50 85 -5.5 88 +21.0 Mulder +20.70 68 -6.2 75 +26.9 Tuscano +14.60 48 +1.3 243 +13.3

Wiggins, Green, Curry and Tuscano are all positive with Oubre. However, they are much better without him.

I see Curry/Green/Wiggins as the big 3. They're +19.6 without Oubre this season (143 minutes).

Without Oubre (season total):

Curry/Green/Wiggins/Bazemore is +23.4 in 67 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Looney is +26.7 in 42 minutes (+26.6 in 74 minutes with Oubre)
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Toscano is +17.6 in 25 minutes (+4.0 in 125 minutes with Oubre)
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Lee is +35.5 in 39 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Wiseman is +0.0 in 45 minutes (-16.5 in 171 minutes with Oubre)
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Mulder is -39.6 in 23 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Paschall is +59.9 in 9 minutes
Curry/Green/Wiggins/Wanamaker is +43.3 in 33 minutes

I was on the keep oubre camp but this is alarming.

Twinkie defense · Post #453 » by **Twinkie defense** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:51 am

Sleepy51 wrote:If you are going to add the talent that this team needs to be a contender then you have to upgrade using either Oubre or Wiggins. The choice is obvious.

I just don't see, with the Warriors' current cap situation, how they upgrade on either Oubre or Wiggins unless they add that Minnesota draft pick to the equation. Seems the better plan would be to keep the good players they have, and improve through the draft - Warriors could have two good picks in a deep draft this summer.

Twinkie defense · Post #454 » by **Twinkie defense** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:52 am

mos_def wrote:I saw Dallas called us about Porzingis. I actually would keep Oubre for that.

That guy is a big negative on defense - i.e., exactly the opposite of what the Warriors are trying to build.

Twinkie defense · Post #455 » by **Twinkie defense** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:54 am

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Oubre has been lighting it up since January 30th (20.2/6.5 on 49.2/45.3 shooting), but I feel like they've been catering to him way too much on the offensive end.

I don't see catering, the ball is moving and Oubre is getting his points in the flow of the offense.

parsnips33 · Post #456 » by **parsnips33** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:10 am

Hoping the Oubre haters have back off. I was told some of us needed to have some sense slapped into us :lol:

GQ Hot Dog · Post #457 » by **GQ Hot Dog** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:11 am

parsnips33 wrote:Hoping the Oubre haters have back off. I was told some of us needed to have some sense slapped into us

That was me calling. These guys are digging deep into their bag of advanced stats to try to find a reason to ignore Oubre's production and defense. The guy is a difference maker and I don't trust any of those +/- figures posted earlier. Let's see those same breakdowns just for the month of February which is when Oubre really started to play with consistency. 46% from 3 and 7 rpg in February so far.

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.

whatisacenter · Post #458 » by **whatisacenter** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:19 am

I think Oubre deserves some credit for his continued effort and improved play. He REALLY struggled to start the season but you can see him starting to get a feel for playing in the Warriors system and his movement off-ball is much better.

It seems silly to continue to hate a guy for being a bad fit if he is steadily making progress and fitting in. Now, if they can move him for a player that is a better long-term fit under contract control, I'm all for it.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #459 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:47 am

I dont think hes even playing better, hes just making shot. Outside of limiting his isos, hes kinda playing the same way he did at the start of the year.

Outside of curry and wiggins, everyone else has been maddeningly inconsistent.

Impuniti · Post #460 » by **Impuniti** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:48 pm

I'm not KO's biggest fan, but I can't get over how freaking hilarious this is. This guy is somethin else.