2021 Draft Thread

[mos_def]

Yeah...Im thinking Bouknight at 7 now just cuz of his ability to get into the lane better than Moody.

Completely different archetypes. Bouknight is a CG-sized score-first guy who doesn't do anything else at a high level. Moody is a wing-sized multi-positional defender who's going to be an off-ball player on offense out of the gate.

Moody could potentially be placed in the starting line-up and help us with defense and shooting. Bouknight would be a guy you bring off the bench for a scoring punch. If the front-office is torn between those two guys, that means they haven't done their job determining what kind of player they actually want with their pick.

I, personally, have zero interest in Bouknight at 7 and little interest in him at 14 either.

Yes. The issue isn't Bouknight per-say, it's what the Warriors are looking for. To me Bouknight feels a little like Poole, same height, and similar combo-guard games. Poole is quicker, but not as long. Poole's defense is not good, but it has improved, as has his passing. I just don't see Bouknight being a good value at 7.

Playmakers, all-around players, super high IQ players, defense, AND scoring.

I understand with both of your comments, but I think there is a base the organization can work with. Bouknight has decent wingspan for his height. It isnt Moody, but the thing that I focus on is that though their secondary stats (and I dont have advanced stats) on rebounds, steals, and assist are similar, there shot game log worries me more on Moody than Bouknight. Moody has 10 games where he shot in the 20% range. Against the Vols, he shot 12% in which he only got 2 rebs in 37 minutes. Look it up. Moody takes alot of shots from 3, and thats fine, his stroke look good, but that tells me the reports of his lack of ability to score in contact, is real.

To better contrast, Moody vs Kispert, you can take away Kispert's 3pt shoot completely and there is still production. meaning he gets to the rim on cuts and drives more than Moody. I would make a case for Jalen Johnson at 7 more than Moody now - and I was a Moody guy until now

[FNQ]

After a first look to potential #7 picks I have them in the following order

1)Barnes
2)Mitchell
3)Keon Johnson, Bouknight
4)Jalen Johnson

And I like Giddey if he is available at 14

Barnes and Jalen Johnson are open questions on what the team is thinking and how they do in tryouts/interviews.

Keon seems pretty unlikely.

Why not Moody?

Moody seems a shooter but does not impress me in something else. Not an extraordinary athlete or a shot creator in 1vs1.
The other players that I posted are either better athletes or better shot creators or both. I think they have bigger upside

There's a whole other aspect to the game you have to leave out to not be impressed by Moody

[The-Power]

I understand with both of your comments, but I think there is a base the organization can work with. Bouknight has decent wingspan for his height. It isnt Moody, but the thing that I focus on is that though their secondary stats (and I dont have advanced stats) on rebounds, steals, and assist are similar, there shot game log worries me more on Moody than Bouknight. Moody has 10 games where he shot in the 20% range. Against the Vols, he shot 12% in which he only got 2 rebs in 37 minutes. Look it up. Moody takes alot of shots from 3, and thats fine, his stroke look good, but that tells me the reports of his lack of ability to score in contact, is real.

Moody is a much better defender than Bouknight, though. Also, don't forget that Moody is one and a half years younger than Bouknight, and has fewer injury concerns – both are important things to consider when making the pick.

Re: Shots logs. Let's look at Bouknight's offensive performances and expected role. Bouknight would be someone who play in order to have someone who creates shots and scores. While he scored a lot of points, he still didn't do it efficiently – 54.6% TS this year, 56% TS last year. A lot more turnovers than assists. And this year, he had a USG% north of 30. He also played poorly in each of the three tournament games his team had this season. Does that sound like a player you want to have in a primary offensive role in the NBA anytime soon? Maybe off the bench, if things break right, but certainly not what I'd be looking for in a 7th pick.

Now, consider Moody. His offense is still volatile, no doubt, and there are both things he must improve on as well as some limitations. Still, he managed to have a solid scoring output at okay-ish efficiency (56.8% TS and relatively few turnovers). It's also easy to see that efficiency go up in his NBA role. Moody is out there to defend 1 through 3 and perhaps some smaller 4s, and to spread plus run the floor on offense. Moody can be impactful without having to touch the ball a lot. The same cannot be said for Bouknight. With both, you have to hope that they can play their college roles in the NBA. It's just that someone like Bouknight most certainly doesn't warrant being the primary option on offense anytime soon whereas Moody's natural role is something basically all teams covet.

[FNQ]

To better contrast, Moody vs Kispert, you can take away Kispert's 3pt shoot completely and there is still production. meaning he gets to the rim on cuts and drives more than Moody. I would make a case for Jalen Johnson at 7 more than Moody now - and I was a Moody guy until now

3 extra years of college will do that for you. Also a vastly different offense - Zaga never had Kispert initiating the offense and handling the ball. Watch Moody's tape - for a Klay player, he handled the ball a LOT. I mean its hard to get 6 FTA/game if you are just a perimeter shooter, right?

And this is as a freshman.. the "low upside" shtick makes little sense to me. He's shown enough handle/ability to draw contact to get to the line, but we're writing off the chance he improves in contact? He handled a lot more than he played off-ball, and we're discounting his potential to learn to use screens better for catch & shoot?

It seems to me to be the old mistaking athleticism with potential.. you teach Moody how to work in the Klay role, and you have a guy who's going to be a better defender than Klay, while still having an (at minimum) above average 3pt shot. I think that potential is more real than looking at someone who's rangy/athletic and needs to work on having a legit jump shot.

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

I'll concentrate more on a few potential the late 1st, overall 2nd round, and overlooked/undrafted players Warriors can sweep up via trade or camp invite:

1) Kessler Edwards (Pepperdine, Junior, Age: 21; Weight: 200 lbs; 6'8", SF/PF)
Likely role: 3 & D
Strengths: Strong player. Has an awkward shooting stroke, but has been extremely efficient shooting the ball (38% from 3; 88% from FT). Swiss army knife of a defender who can guard 1 - 4.
Weaknesses: Can't create for himself at the next level. Lacks elite ballhandling. Doesn't pass the ball much.
Player comparison: Harrison Barnes / Jerami Grant

Watch on YouTube

2) Sandro Mamukelashvili (Seton Hall, Senior, Age: 22; Weight: 240 lbs; 6'11", C)
Likely role: Point forward
Strengths: Does a bit of everything (e.g., rebound, shooting and scoring). His bread and butter is his playmaking for a 6'11" C, being the primary ballhandler, and finding open teammates.
Weaknesses: Not an elite athlete. Plays below the rim (Though, can show his athleticism unbothered by defenders). Will struggle defensively.
Player comparison: Very, very, very, very poor mans' Nikola Jokic / Kevin Love

Watch on YouTube

3) Julian Champagnie (St. John's, Sophomore, 6'8", Age: 20; Weight: 220 lbs; SG/SF/PF)
Likely role: Offensive spark off the bench
Strengths: Lights out shooter (37% from deep from past season). Can make his free throws. Pretty good rebounder.
Weaknesses: Isn't an explosive athlete. May struggle defensively at next level against more bigger, aggressive 3s and 4s (But shown effort, as his stats shows 1.4 spg and 1.0 blocks with St. John's). Doesn't pass the ball much.
Player comparison: Very poor man's and less athletic Joe Johnson / Less athletic Rudy Gay

Watch on YouTube

[mos_def]

Now, consider Moody. His offense is still volatile, no doubt, and there are both things he must improve on as well as some limitations. Still, he managed to have a solid scoring output at okay-ish efficiency (56.8% TS and relatively few turnovers). It's also easy to see that efficiency go up in his NBA role. Moody is out there to defend 1 through 3 and perhaps some smaller 4s, and to spread plus run the floor on offense. Moody can be impactful without having to touch the ball a lot. The same cannot be said for Bouknight. With both, you have to hope that they can play their college roles in the NBA. It's just that someone like Bouknight most certainly doesn't warrant being the primary option on offense anytime soon whereas Moody's natural role is something basically all teams covet.

That point is valid. His role wont be that of when he was at UCONN but I dont really expect prospects to play their role that they did in college - especially with Steph and Klay on roster. I know Bouknight can score tho at a higher clip but turnovers are common for a person with the ball in their hands. Moody was a spot up shooter in college thus lower turnovers. Especially with the gravity Steph produces, lanes open up. Its very common for a prospect to develop an outside shot. I can get Wiggins or JTA to do what we want Moody to do. We essentially wanting Moody to be James Jones. Your points are valid, but what happens when the Curry window is closed. I would easily argue that Id rather have Bouknight as a replacement than Moody in the future. I remember Steph was a turnover machine is first couple of years

To be truthful, tho the 7th pick conveyed, Im not thrilled with any player in that range. Im more comfortable with 14 since its a role position spot.

[Scoots1994]

Completely different archetypes. Bouknight is a CG-sized score-first guy who doesn't do anything else at a high level. Moody is a wing-sized multi-positional defender who's going to be an off-ball player on offense out of the gate.

Moody could potentially be placed in the starting line-up and help us with defense and shooting. Bouknight would be a guy you bring off the bench for a scoring punch. If the front-office is torn between those two guys, that means they haven't done their job determining what kind of player they actually want with their pick.

I, personally, have zero interest in Bouknight at 7 and little interest in him at 14 either.

Yes. The issue isn't Bouknight per-say, it's what the Warriors are looking for. To me Bouknight feels a little like Poole, same height, and similar combo-guard games. Poole is quicker, but not as long. Poole's defense is not good, but it has improved, as has his passing. I just don't see Bouknight being a good value at 7.

Playmakers, all-around players, super high IQ players, defense, AND scoring.

I understand with both of your comments, but I think there is a base the organization can work with. Bouknight has decent wingspan for his height. It isnt Moody, but the thing that I focus on is that though their secondary stats (and I dont have advanced stats) on rebounds, steals, and assist are similar, there shot game log worries me more on Moody than Bouknight. Moody has 10 games where he shot in the 20% range. Against the Vols, he shot 12% in which he only got 2 rebs in 37 minutes. Look it up. Moody takes alot of shots from 3, and thats fine, his stroke look good, but that tells me the reports of his lack of ability to score in contact, is real.

To better contrast, Moody vs Kispert, you can take away Kispert's 3pt shoot completely and there is still production. meaning he gets to the rim on cuts and drives more than Moody. I would make a case for Jalen Johnson at 7 more than Moody now - and I was a Moody guy until now

Yeah, Moody's likely peak is Bruce Bowen-ish. Literal 3&D. But both are areas where he has shown to be better than Bouknight. Moody is also far more physical.

The Kispert comp is kind of broken as Kispert's game is very different and the defense, the defense, the defense.

It's the debate of floor vs ceiling.

I include Moody in my list because he can probably play now and do that 3&D thing, with a limited distance he'll grow from there. Jalen Johnson has a ton more skill but his head is the big question with him.

[shazam_guy]

This thread is why I love this board. Lots of info being swapped, many different opinions, nobody sneering at anyone else for not agreeing.

Good stuff.

[ChuckDurn]

The thing I’m worried about with Sengun is his size. While his stats compare favorably with Jokic, Nurkic, and Gasol, it’s pretty evident that he’s at least 2-3 inches shorter and probably 20+ pounds lighter than each of them, and it’s their agility and skill, combined with pretty overwhelming size, that makes them transcendent. Take away that overwhelming size, and adjust it to somebody who’s the size of a PF, and I think it won’t work as well.

Do I think he’ll be productive? Absolutely. He clearly has skills. His offense is going to be good. But I don’t think he’ll reach that elite level on offense of the guys you noted, and will likewise struggle some on defense.

I’d absolutely consider (and probably take) him at 14 if he’s still on the board, but at #7 I think he’d be a reach.

Chuck, first of all thanks for all the posts you've been writing, it's always a pleasure reading them.

Regarding Sengun, as I wrote somewhere else here in the forums, I'm thinking that maybe Orlando and/or OKC might pick him.

In that scenario, Barnes and/or Kuminga might fall to us.

Let's see what happens, I really believe he will shot up draft boards in the next few weeks, as more and more teams are getting reliable info on him.

GSW - wow……. Not sure what to say. I really appreciate the compliment. And the feeling is mutual.

I will not be surprised whatsoever if either Barnes (less likely, as he’s rising) or Kuminga (more likely) is available at 7 when the Warriors pick. And then it will be interesting to see what the Warriors do.

[Scoots1994]

The thing I’m worried about with Sengun is his size. While his stats compare favorably with Jokic, Nurkic, and Gasol, it’s pretty evident that he’s at least 2-3 inches shorter and probably 20+ pounds lighter than each of them, and it’s their agility and skill, combined with pretty overwhelming size, that makes them transcendent. Take away that overwhelming size, and adjust it to somebody who’s the size of a PF, and I think it won’t work as well.

Do I think he’ll be productive? Absolutely. He clearly has skills. His offense is going to be good. But I don’t think he’ll reach that elite level on offense of the guys you noted, and will likewise struggle some on defense.

I’d absolutely consider (and probably take) him at 14 if he’s still on the board, but at #7 I think he’d be a reach.

Chuck, first of all thanks for all the posts you've been writing, it's always a pleasure reading them.

Regarding Sengun, as I wrote somewhere else here in the forums, I'm thinking that maybe Orlando and/or OKC might pick him.

In that scenario, Barnes and/or Kuminga might fall to us.

Let's see what happens, I really believe he will shot up draft boards in the next few weeks, as more and more teams are getting reliable info on him.

GSW - wow……. Not sure what to say. I really appreciate the compliment. And the feeling is mutual.

I will not be surprised whatsoever if either Barnes (less likely, as he’s rising) or Kuminga (more likely) is available at 7 when the Warriors pick. And then it will be interesting to see what the Warriors do.

I think if any of those 6 fall it's likely an easy decision for the Warriors to take them.

[clyde21]

big board 6/27

T1
1 Evan Mobley
2 Cade Cunningham

T2
3 Jalen Suggs
4 Jalen Green
5 Jonathan Kuminga

T3
6 Moses Moody
7 Jaden Springer
8 Jalen Johnson
9 Franz Wagner
10 Alperen Sengun
11 Scottie Barnes
12 Brandon Boston Jr.
13 Usman Garuba
14 Keon Johnson

T4
15 James Bouknight
16 Sharife Cooper
17 Jared Butler
18 Isaiah Jackson
19 Kai Jones
20 Ziaire Williams
21 Scottie Lewis
22 Trendon Watford
23 Corey Kispert
24 JT Thor
25 Roko Prkacin
26 Joe Wieskamp

[ChuckDurn]

Yeah...Im thinking Bouknight at 7 now just cuz of his ability to get into the lane better than Moody.

Completely different archetypes. Bouknight is a CG-sized score-first guy who doesn't do anything else at a high level. Moody is a wing-sized multi-positional defender who's going to be an off-ball player on offense out of the gate.

Moody could potentially be placed in the starting line-up and help us with defense and shooting. Bouknight would be a guy you bring off the bench for a scoring punch. If the front-office is torn between those two guys, that means they haven't done their job determining what kind of player they actually want with their pick.

I, personally, have zero interest in Bouknight at 7 and little interest in him at 14 either.

I realize there have been more comments after this, but wanted to comment specifically on the part that I put in bold.

I agree with this, but only if the assessment is that Moody and Bouknight overall are at the same level (tier) as prospect.

But if one of them is graded overall as a better prospect, you take him, even if the fit isn’t as good. Near the top of the draft, you always take the better prospect, and you solve for fit problems via free agency and trades (where hopefully you can swap talent-for-talent or talent-for-contract equally).

Only choose the better-fitting prospect if you think guys are overall at the same level.

[bay2hk]

big board 6/27

T1
1 Evan Mobley
2 Cade Cunningham

T2
3 Jalen Suggs
4 Jalen Green
5 Jonathan Kuminga

T3
6 Moses Moody
7 Jaden Springer
8 Jalen Johnson
9 Franz Wagner
10 Alperen Sengun
11 Scottie Barnes
12 Brandon Boston Jr.
13 Usman Garuba
14 Keon Johnson

T4
15 James Bouknight
16 Sharife Cooper
17 Jared Butler
18 Isaiah Jackson
19 Kai Jones
20 Ziaire Williams
21 Scottie Lewis
22 Trendon Watford
23 Corey Kispert
24 JT Thor
25 Roko Prkacin
26 Joe Wieskamp

How are giddy and Mitchell not in the top 26? This big board is a joke. I bet most of you who are against picking Mitchell were against picking lamelo last year too.

[clyde21]

big board 6/27

Spoiler:

T1
1 Evan Mobley
2 Cade Cunningham

T2
3 Jalen Suggs
4 Jalen Green
5 Jonathan Kuminga

T3
6 Moses Moody
7 Jaden Springer
8 Jalen Johnson
9 Franz Wagner
10 Alperen Sengun
11 Scottie Barnes
12 Brandon Boston Jr.
13 Usman Garuba
14 Keon Johnson

T4
15 James Bouknight
16 Sharife Cooper
17 Jared Butler
18 Isaiah Jackson
19 Kai Jones
20 Ziaire Williams
21 Scottie Lewis
22 Trendon Watford
23 Corey Kispert
24 JT Thor
25 Roko Prkacin
26 Joe Wieskamp

How are giddy and Mitchell not in the top 26? This big board is a joke. I bet most of you who are against picking Mitchell were against picking lamelo last year too.

you see the other 26 players ahead of them? that's how.

[clyde21]

Moody HAS to be the pick @ 7...i can live with Barnes, but Moody is such a perfect fit for our personnel and our scheme that it's a no brainer...any one that thinks Moody is 'just a shooter' clearly haven't watched him play at all...

Moody/Wagner at 7/14 is pretty much the perfect scenario for us, but I am completely expecting Myers to do something dumb af per usual like take Davion/Kispert instead

[mos_def]

Moody HAS to be the pick @ 7...i can live with Barnes, but Moody is such a perfect fit for our personnel and our scheme that it's a no brainer...any one that thinks Moody is 'just a shooter' clearly haven't watched him play at all...

Moody/Wagner at 7/14 is pretty much the perfect scenario for us, but I am completely expecting Myers to do something dumb af per usual like take Davion/Kispert instead

Moody to me is Robert covington. I like him but not at the 7th pick

[clyde21]

Moody HAS to be the pick @ 7...i can live with Barnes, but Moody is such a perfect fit for our personnel and our scheme that it's a no brainer...any one that thinks Moody is 'just a shooter' clearly haven't watched him play at all...

Moody/Wagner at 7/14 is pretty much the perfect scenario for us, but I am completely expecting Myers to do something dumb af per usual like take Davion/Kispert instead

Moody to me is Robert covington. I like him but not at the 7th pick

RoCo is probably like a...low end outcome for Moody, not even the medium outcome

[The-Power]

Yeah...Im thinking Bouknight at 7 now just cuz of his ability to get into the lane better than Moody.

Completely different archetypes. Bouknight is a CG-sized score-first guy who doesn't do anything else at a high level. Moody is a wing-sized multi-positional defender who's going to be an off-ball player on offense out of the gate.

Moody could potentially be placed in the starting line-up and help us with defense and shooting. Bouknight would be a guy you bring off the bench for a scoring punch. If the front-office is torn between those two guys, that means they haven't done their job determining what kind of player they actually want with their pick.

I, personally, have zero interest in Bouknight at 7 and little interest in him at 14 either.

I realize there have been more comments after this, but wanted to comment specifically on the part that I put in bold.

I agree with this, but only if the assessment is that Moody and Bouknight overall are at the same level (tier) as prospect.

But if one of them is graded overall as a better prospect, you take him, even if the fit isn’t as good. Near the top of the draft, you always take the better prospect, and you solve for fit problems via free agency and trades (where hopefully you can swap talent-for-talent or talent-for-contract equally).

Only choose the better-fitting prospect if you think guys are overall at the same level.

I understand this sentiment, but I'll add two things:

1) We are not in a position to just draft for talent and worry about fit later as we are not your typical mid-lottery team. Ideally, we trade our assets for a player we can use now (with the caveat that I'd only to this if the value is fair). If nothing entices us, we draft to get someone to contribute this year or – at the latest – next year. Also, keep in mind that we're picking at 7 – all the ‘can't miss’ type of prospects are gone by then, so it's not like we'd be passing up on a top-tier prospect for a better fit. As a playoff team that picks at 7, short- and medium-term fit and impact is a relevant deciding-factor for me because the draft becomes a lot more flat after the top guys are gone.

2) I just don't see Bouknight as the kind of prospect that is an obviously better prospect than anyone else we could get at 7. He's not consistently mocked higher than this, he hasn't played like a different tier of prospect compared to others and his archetype doesn't scream ‘franchise player’ either. I'd understand if Barnes fell to 7, or Kuminga, and the FO is enticed to pick them even if they liked someone else more as a fit because they are generally considerably higher on the prospect that falls compared to anyone else available. I just don't think Bouknight is the guy that you feel like you have to take him at 7 based on talent alone or else you're very likely to regret it.

[killmongrel]

Scenarios:

1.) Kuminga falls to 7, draft him and either draft Wagner at 14 or trade down to get Duarte.
2.) Barnes falls to 7. Don't draft him.
3.) Neither situations above occur. Draft Moody and draft Wagner at 14 for a super safe draft.
4.) Draft Moody at 7 and a high potential prospect at 14 like Giddy, or Zaire Williams.
5.) Draft a high potential prospect at 7 like Bouknight. Draft Wagner at 14 or trade down for Duarte.
6.) Draft Mitchell at 7 and Krispert at 14 so that we can tank for the 2022 draft.

[GSWFan1994]

GSW - wow……. Not sure what to say. I really appreciate the compliment. And the feeling is mutual.

I will not be surprised whatsoever if either Barnes (less likely, as he’s rising) or Kuminga (more likely) is available at 7 when the Warriors pick. And then it will be interesting to see what the Warriors do.

Thanks! Much appreciated.

What are your thoughts on Kuminga?

As much as I like Barnes and JJ, amongst others, I still feel Kuminga is the superior prospect.

His skillset is so enticing. He started off strong in the G-League, then somehow dropped a bit. But still had interesting numbers.

Most importantly, I believe his weaknesses are fixable. If he reaches a certain degree of his potential, he will surely be a borderline All-Star player in my eyes, because he has the athleticism and seems to have a good head on his shoulders.

Regarding the age concerns, I think it's all bogus.