It’s over I’m calling it

[whatisacenter]

It's capable of a run for sure, I can't overstate how poorly we're using the pieces on the roster right now. Its crazy how different and ineffective the rotations have been the past 2 seasons. The assumption last year was that Kerr was hamstrung by Poole and our otherwise lack of handlers, and we just had to absorb his bad defense/stupidity

But here we are now with a much better fitting team, but Kerr is repeatedly trying to jam the square pegs in the round holes. Its not working, but he's convinced that if he gets that square peg going, it'll fit. Just need patience... its a championship peg!

How does this roster fit well?

It has 7 guards, 1 1/2 wings, and 3 guys who play the 4 and an undersized 5. Six of the players are over 30yo in addition to Saric and Looney who move like they are nearing 40.

I think this roster is a .500 roster that if everything goes well could win 44-45 games tops and maybe the win a first round series.

All bets are off if Curry misses 15+ games this season as I don't think this team is built to go .500 in his absence.

Odd thing is that the strange team last season did play .500 without Steph.

I think they were actually 2 games over .500 without him.

[SpreeS]

The biggest drop and the most important to team - Green defence.

Deflection per36min

24 2.2
23 3.1

Contested shot per36min

24 9.6 FGA 5.6 2PA
23 11.5 FGA 7.8 2PA

Defence dashbord overall and 2P per game

24 9.8 DFGA +1.0 DIFF% (2P 5.6 DFGA +6.7 DIFF%)
23 15.2 DFGA -5.6 DIFF% (2P 10.1 DFGA -6.5 DIFF%)

DREB%

24 17.6% (the worst in career)
23 21.6%
22 23.2%

STL%

24 0.8% (the worst in career)
23 1.5%
22 2.2%
21 2.5%

DRTG

119.4 (second worst on team)

The time caught him. He was positive only in 4 games this season and +/- has always showed his impact.

[ShayDee]

The biggest drop and the most important to team - Green defence.

Deflection per36min

24 2.2
23 3.1

Contested shot per36min

24 9.6 FGA 5.6 2PA
23 11.5 FGA 7.8 2PA

Defence dashbord overall and 2P per game

24 9.8 DFGA +1.0 DIFF% (2P 5.6 DFGA +6.7 DIFF%)
23 15.2 DFGA -5.6 DIFF% (2P 10.1 DFGA -6.5 DIFF%)

DREB%

24 17.6% (the worst in career)
23 21.6%
22 23.2%

STL%

24 0.8% (the worst in career)
23 1.5%
22 2.2%
21 2.5%

DRTG

119.4 (second worst on team)

The time caught him. He was positive only in 4 games this season and +/- has always showed his impact.

Got his contract he is chilling during the regular season while everyone is piling on Wiggins and Klay

[jozef]

I watched games and did not notice any dropoff. The numbers are result of smaller lineups and worse athleticism on C position.

[SpreeS]

I watched games and did not notice any dropoff. The numbers are result of smaller lineups and worse athleticism on C position.

No no no. All these numbers indicate dropoff. No need to be some kind of expert to know that PF with 6-6 height and near 34y old will have significant drop off on defence.

[Crazy-Canuck]

The biggest drop and the most important to team - Green defence.

Deflection per36min

24 2.2
23 3.1

Contested shot per36min

24 9.6 FGA 5.6 2PA
23 11.5 FGA 7.8 2PA

Defence dashbord overall and 2P per game

24 9.8 DFGA +1.0 DIFF% (2P 5.6 DFGA +6.7 DIFF%)
23 15.2 DFGA -5.6 DIFF% (2P 10.1 DFGA -6.5 DIFF%)

DREB%

24 17.6% (the worst in career)
23 21.6%
22 23.2%

STL%

24 0.8% (the worst in career)
23 1.5%
22 2.2%
21 2.5%

DRTG

119.4 (second worst on team)

The time caught him. He was positive only in 4 games this season and +/- has always showed his impact.

We are like the only team in the league where our frontcourt starters (dray, loon, and wiggs) have more 3 pt shot contests than our guards.

Dray is spending alot of his time in the perimeter, so of course most of those stats would be down while his 3 pt shot contests would rise. And same thing is happening to Looney.

Dray likes to read the play and give directions but he can't do as much as he likes. He's not in the pocket to survey.

Watch where the defensive breakdowns happen for this team.

Read on Twitter

Watch moody, dray, and wiggs do their jobs. But saric messed up, which forces steph to come help. Steph should never be in that position if saric does his job.

Teams are going after our bad defenders and away from our good ones. It isnt a coincidence that dray and wiggs were at the opposite side of the court while saric and steph were on the other. It's planned.

It's only 1 example, but there have been alot of these breakdowns with some being the culprit more than others. Hide 1 is doable, hiding 2 or 3 is near impossible.

Sure he's not prime dray, but he's still darn good. Kerr is getting outclassed and isn't doing our players any favors.

[CDM_Stats]

(correctly calling out the real problem of how one bad defender can break down the entire play, and how Kerr refuses to have less than 2 bad defenders on the court a the same time)

^ this is how you evaluate defense, not grabbing team metrics that have been sloppily converted to individual defenders

Putting Draymond on Joe is nuts... the Thunder literally beat us at our own game there. They want smaller and more skilled, so Saric decided it was more important to stay with the low 30% 3pt shooter in Jaylin Williams instead of helping on the drive as he's supposed to

Those team metrics that people all of a sudden treasure? It blames Moody and maybe Curry on that one. But the personnel, and their respective decisions, are actually at fault. But DRTG!!!

[Old_Blue]

Hoops Rumors rubbing it in, reminding us all that the Dubs could have had Haliburton...

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/golden-state-warriors

"Bob Myers spoke about bringing Tyrese Haliburton in for a workout prior to the 2020 draft and ultimately passing on him (Twitter video link). “What bothers me more than anything was — his workout was good (but) when we met with him after, I should have known then because of who he is as a person and a leader,” Myers said. “… That conversation left a mark because of how smart he is and how confident. It’s not fake, it’s not arrogant, it’s confidence. When you talk about players wanting to play with him, that’s real. … There’s a lot of great players in the NBA that people do not want to play with. (If) you are a great player and a great person, then people want to play with you.” Haliburton said at the time that he thought he’d be a “really good fit” in Golden State — he wasn’t really in the conversation for the No. 2 overall pick, but there was a sense that he could be one of the Warriors’ targets if they traded down."

The reference to trading down links to this story back from 11/18/20, the day of the draft that year...

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/11/bulls-have-reportedly-offered-no-4-pick-carter-for-warriors-no-2.html

"The Warriors are weighing whether or not to accept a trade offer from the Bulls, according to Kevin O’Connor of The Ringer, who hears from league sources that Chicago has put the No. 4 pick and Wendell Carter Jr. on the table for Golden State’s No. 2 pick."

"Meanwhile, a league source told Connor Letourneau of The San Francisco Chronicle this week that the Warriors would like to trade the No. 2 pick for a “proven, rotation-level frontcourt player” and a pick later in the lottery. The goal would be to add a frontcourt player who could be relied upon in the postseason, while developing a young guard or wing, says Letourneau."

[Onus]

Hoops Rumors rubbing it in, reminding us all that the Dubs could have had Haliburton...

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/golden-state-warriors

"Bob Myers spoke about bringing Tyrese Haliburton in for a workout prior to the 2020 draft and ultimately passing on him (Twitter video link). “What bothers me more than anything was — his workout was good (but) when we met with him after, I should have known then because of who he is as a person and a leader,” Myers said. “… That conversation left a mark because of how smart he is and how confident. It’s not fake, it’s not arrogant, it’s confidence. When you talk about players wanting to play with him, that’s real. … There’s a lot of great players in the NBA that people do not want to play with. (If) you are a great player and a great person, then people want to play with you.” Haliburton said at the time that he thought he’d be a “really good fit” in Golden State — he wasn’t really in the conversation for the No. 2 overall pick, but there was a sense that he could be one of the Warriors’ targets if they traded down."

The reference to trading down links to this story back from 11/18/20, the day of the draft that year...

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/11/bulls-have-reportedly-offered-no-4-pick-carter-for-warriors-no-2.html

"The Warriors are weighing whether or not to accept a trade offer from the Bulls, according to Kevin O’Connor of The Ringer, who hears from league sources that Chicago has put the No. 4 pick and Wendell Carter Jr. on the table for Golden State’s No. 2 pick."

"Meanwhile, a league source told Connor Letourneau of The San Francisco Chronicle this week that the Warriors would like to trade the No. 2 pick for a “proven, rotation-level frontcourt player” and a pick later in the lottery. The goal would be to add a frontcourt player who could be relied upon in the postseason, while developing a young guard or wing, says Letourneau."

I seriously don't get this obsession with the Wiseman draft. Yes Haliburton is great, but he was drafted 12th. He's good but we really don't need another small guard who can't defend switches because he's a twig. We need a big wing/forward say like a 6'11'' pf in Franz, who played in a motion offense, is a good defender and who was drafted literally right after JK.

Even if we draft Hali we'd still be small, our defense would be pretty bad having to play Curry/Hali/Klay/Wiggins/Dray down the stretch. Hali is a great player but he doesn't play a role that we desperately need. If we drafted Franz having a closing line up of Curry/Klay/Wiggins/Franz/Dray would actually make a lot of sense and if Klay can't do it we'd have Moody step in, and we'd be able to lock **** down with long mobile defender across the board and Steph. Franz is the miss not Hali.

[HiRez]

Hoops Rumors rubbing it in, reminding us all that the Dubs could have had Haliburton...

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/golden-state-warriors

"Bob Myers spoke about bringing Tyrese Haliburton in for a workout prior to the 2020 draft and ultimately passing on him (Twitter video link). “What bothers me more than anything was — his workout was good (but) when we met with him after, I should have known then because of who he is as a person and a leader,” Myers said. “… That conversation left a mark because of how smart he is and how confident. It’s not fake, it’s not arrogant, it’s confidence. When you talk about players wanting to play with him, that’s real. … There’s a lot of great players in the NBA that people do not want to play with. (If) you are a great player and a great person, then people want to play with you.” Haliburton said at the time that he thought he’d be a “really good fit” in Golden State — he wasn’t really in the conversation for the No. 2 overall pick, but there was a sense that he could be one of the Warriors’ targets if they traded down."

The reference to trading down links to this story back from 11/18/20, the day of the draft that year...

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/11/bulls-have-reportedly-offered-no-4-pick-carter-for-warriors-no-2.html

"The Warriors are weighing whether or not to accept a trade offer from the Bulls, according to Kevin O’Connor of The Ringer, who hears from league sources that Chicago has put the No. 4 pick and Wendell Carter Jr. on the table for Golden State’s No. 2 pick."

"Meanwhile, a league source told Connor Letourneau of The San Francisco Chronicle this week that the Warriors would like to trade the No. 2 pick for a “proven, rotation-level frontcourt player” and a pick later in the lottery. The goal would be to add a frontcourt player who could be relied upon in the postseason, while developing a young guard or wing, says Letourneau."

I seriously don't get this obsession with the Wiseman draft. Yes Haliburton is great, but he was drafted 12th. He's good but we really don't need another small guard who can't defend switches because he's a twig. We need a big wing/forward say like a 6'11'' pf in Franz, who played in a motion offense, is a good defender and who was drafted literally right after JK.

Even if we draft Hali we'd still be small, our defense would be pretty bad having to play Curry/Hali/Klay/Wiggins/Dray down the stretch. Hali is a great player but he doesn't play a role that we desperately need. If we drafted Franz having a closing line up of Curry/Klay/Wiggins/Franz/Dray would actually make a lot of sense and if Klay can't do it we'd have Moody step in, and we'd be able to lock **** down with long mobile defender across the board and Steph. Franz is the miss not Hali.

I mean...why can't they BOTH be misses? They could have (it seems) had Haliburton and WCJ and Franz (and Moody/Sengun)! Now even if that trade rumor is true, what it doesn't say is what the Bulls were demanding in return in addition to the #2. In hindsight obviously they could have done better. Hell, I had Haliburton #2 on my draft board but still would have taken Wiseman if a trade-down scenario wasn't available or was infeasible. Of course I'd give up the #2 and more for Haliburton now but I still see why they were intrigued with Wiseman at the time.

The other factor I wasn't considering is whether Kerr would actually play these players and it's a much more important factor than I realized. Choosing 2 players with such raw skills was a mistake just because we now know Kerr has no tolerance for mistakes from young players (even though his ring-wearing vets make a lot of them too) and they were never likely to get a solid development ramp on this team as long as Kerr is the coach and they're still trying to win championships. That even applies to Moody even though he's the most stable of the 3. Hell, TJD is seasoned and has looked solid in his NBA time and provides skills that I consider greatly needed on this team but Kerr still DNPs him every night. Podz is the only one able to get breathing room because Kerr just loves combo guards, and yes, he's pretty good, although when grandpa Paul comes back in the lineup, his time will go down too.

When the championships are over and Steph retires, it'll be interesting to see what happens with coaching/FO personnel, drafting, and player acquisitions once Myers and probably Kerr are gone. Until then, they have to make the best out of what they have. They swung and missed a bunch of times and there's nothing to be done about that now, but they still have to figure out how to salvage something from the wreckage.

[TB]

My memory is bad, but pretty sure we would have had to add Looney in the trade down. Or if not Looney, it would have been a combo of players like Poole and other smaller contracts. I don't think the difference in Wiseman contract and one at 4 or lower was high enough to not have a player included.

Not saying we wouldn't go back and do that (obviously would to get Hali), but it would have changed our 2022 title team for sure.

[Onus]

Hoops Rumors rubbing it in, reminding us all that the Dubs could have had Haliburton...

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/golden-state-warriors

"Bob Myers spoke about bringing Tyrese Haliburton in for a workout prior to the 2020 draft and ultimately passing on him (Twitter video link). “What bothers me more than anything was — his workout was good (but) when we met with him after, I should have known then because of who he is as a person and a leader,” Myers said. “… That conversation left a mark because of how smart he is and how confident. It’s not fake, it’s not arrogant, it’s confidence. When you talk about players wanting to play with him, that’s real. … There’s a lot of great players in the NBA that people do not want to play with. (If) you are a great player and a great person, then people want to play with you.” Haliburton said at the time that he thought he’d be a “really good fit” in Golden State — he wasn’t really in the conversation for the No. 2 overall pick, but there was a sense that he could be one of the Warriors’ targets if they traded down."

The reference to trading down links to this story back from 11/18/20, the day of the draft that year...

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/11/bulls-have-reportedly-offered-no-4-pick-carter-for-warriors-no-2.html

"The Warriors are weighing whether or not to accept a trade offer from the Bulls, according to Kevin O’Connor of The Ringer, who hears from league sources that Chicago has put the No. 4 pick and Wendell Carter Jr. on the table for Golden State’s No. 2 pick."

"Meanwhile, a league source told Connor Letourneau of The San Francisco Chronicle this week that the Warriors would like to trade the No. 2 pick for a “proven, rotation-level frontcourt player” and a pick later in the lottery. The goal would be to add a frontcourt player who could be relied upon in the postseason, while developing a young guard or wing, says Letourneau."

I seriously don't get this obsession with the Wiseman draft. Yes Haliburton is great, but he was drafted 12th. He's good but we really don't need another small guard who can't defend switches because he's a twig. We need a big wing/forward say like a 6'11'' pf in Franz, who played in a motion offense, is a good defender and who was drafted literally right after JK.

Even if we draft Hali we'd still be small, our defense would be pretty bad having to play Curry/Hali/Klay/Wiggins/Dray down the stretch. Hali is a great player but he doesn't play a role that we desperately need. If we drafted Franz having a closing line up of Curry/Klay/Wiggins/Franz/Dray would actually make a lot of sense and if Klay can't do it we'd have Moody step in, and we'd be able to lock **** down with long mobile defender across the board and Steph. Franz is the miss not Hali.

I mean...why can't they BOTH be misses? They could have (it seems) had Haliburton and WCJ and Franz (and Moody/Sengun)! Now even if that trade rumor is true, what it doesn't say is what the Bulls were demanding in return in addition to the #2. In hindsight obviously they could have done better. Hell, I had Haliburton #2 on my draft board but still would have taken Wiseman if a trade-down scenario wasn't available or was infeasible. Of course I'd give up the #2 and more for Haliburton now but I still see why they were intrigued with Wiseman at the time.

The other factor I wasn't considering is whether Kerr would actually play these players and it's a much more important factor than I realized. Choosing 2 players with such raw skills was a mistake just because we now know Kerr has no tolerance for mistakes from young players (even though his ring-wearing vets make a lot of them too) and they were never likely to get a solid development ramp on this team as long as Kerr is the coach and they're still trying to win championships. That even applies to Moody even though he's the most stable of the 3. Hell, TJD is seasoned and has looked solid in his NBA time and provides skills that I consider greatly needed on this team but Kerr still DNPs him every night. Podz is the only one able to get breathing room because Kerr just loves combo guards, and yes, he's pretty good, although when grandpa Paul comes back in the lineup, his time will go down too.

When the championships are over and Steph retires, it'll be interesting to see what happens with coaching/FO personnel, drafting, and player acquisitions once Myers and probably Kerr are gone. Until then, they have to make the best out of what they have. They swung and missed a bunch of times and there's nothing to be done about that now, but they still have to figure out how to salvage something from the wreckage.

MDJ is definitely a departure drafting wise from what Bob was doing. I'm not sure Kerr will want to continue coaching once everyone is gone, which is fine because we'll have to implement a new system if we ever find someone worth building around again.

[Onus]

don't know where to put this but

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oim6Wu8LdOY

[BayAreaDub]

don't know where to put this but

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oim6Wu8LdOY

This guy deserves better

[Hoopstar23]

it truly is over!

[jaymo123]

It's over for this group. Time to make some trades.

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

Time to blow this team up, fellas. It was a good run.

[cpower]

lightyear behind

[LoveMyRaps]

He's coming to save y'all. Fret not!

[cpower]

He's coming to save y'all. Fret not!

raptors are not stupid enough to take our bad players.