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It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated

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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#61 » by Old_Blue » Wed Aug 28, 2024 8:23 pm

Onus wrote:I mean a Moody, Podz, JK + 3 1sts and 3 swaps is steep. I'm not sure Utah even valued him at all if that was what it would take. If we could've taken out a 1st and a swap I may have done it, but that's still a really steep price, and I'm probably higher on Lauri than most.


The people who were stamping their feet and demanding this exchange are either (1) saboteurs with a secret agenda to destroy the Warriors, or (2) irrational beyond normal reasonable human comprehension. I don't think it's possible for them to be both. Saboteurs require some degree of logic and intellect. :crazy:
Jester_ wrote:(Referring to the practice of butt caning) Yeah that's why we (Singapore) have beautiful streets and safe communities while y'all (San Francisco) live in bum-adled squalor and think it's freedom :lol:
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#62 » by EvanZ » Thu Aug 29, 2024 2:42 am

Old_Blue wrote:
Onus wrote:I mean a Moody, Podz, JK + 3 1sts and 3 swaps is steep. I'm not sure Utah even valued him at all if that was what it would take. If we could've taken out a 1st and a swap I may have done it, but that's still a really steep price, and I'm probably higher on Lauri than most.


The people who were stamping their feet and demanding this exchange are either (1) saboteurs with a secret agenda to destroy the Warriors, or (2) irrational beyond normal reasonable human comprehension. I don't think it's possible for them to be both. Saboteurs require some degree of logic and intellect. :crazy:


Where was it reported that there was any offer close to this size? Answer: there wasn’t.
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#63 » by EvanZ » Thu Aug 29, 2024 2:43 am

My understanding from what I read and heard online is that Utah didn’t want JK and they did want Podz and some picks. I’m not even sure about the picks. It was pretty clear they wanted Podz.
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#64 » by Crazy-Canuck » Thu Aug 29, 2024 2:53 am

Kerr wants podz to take 8-10 3 pters per game next year. Yeah, good luck with that
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#65 » by Onus » Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:33 am

Crazy-Canuck wrote:Kerr wants podz to take 8-10 3 pters per game next year. Yeah, good luck with that

He was able to get up 7 a game in summer league and o thought he could’ve taken more.
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2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
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2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#66 » by Crazy-Canuck » Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:49 am

Onus wrote:
Crazy-Canuck wrote:Kerr wants podz to take 8-10 3 pters per game next year. Yeah, good luck with that

He was able to get up 7 a game in summer league and o thought he could’ve taken more.


As the first option. But bigger issue is that it seems Kerr is penciling in podz as the starter. Which leaves us with no bench pg, no defense, and more small ball.
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#67 » by WarriorGM » Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:59 am

Kerr setting up Podz to take over for Steph.
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#68 » by Crazy-Canuck » Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:12 am

WarriorGM wrote:Kerr setting up Podz to take over for Steph.


More like lacob.
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#69 » by Onus » Thu Aug 29, 2024 2:59 pm

Crazy-Canuck wrote:
Onus wrote:
Crazy-Canuck wrote:Kerr wants podz to take 8-10 3 pters per game next year. Yeah, good luck with that

He was able to get up 7 a game in summer league and o thought he could’ve taken more.


As the first option. But bigger issue is that it seems Kerr is penciling in podz as the starter. Which leaves us with no bench pg, no defense, and more small ball.

I'd expect Podz will still be the bench pg. Curry is going to get taken out early and podz will run the team and then curry will come back in at end of quarters hopefully. But yea Podz is going to get 30 mpg most likely. If you're worried about small ball then Draymond is small for his position by like 3". TJD is small for his position by like 3". Podz is small for a 2 guard by like 2". I mean ideally Moody would be good enough to take the starting sg spot but he's only taller than Podz by .75", and sure his wingspan makes up for that but Podz rebounds and is willing to fight downlow so whatever. Podz doesn't really play small.
Most 4th Quarter Points in Final since 1991
1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#70 » by EvanZ » Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:57 pm

Onus wrote:
Crazy-Canuck wrote:
Onus wrote:He was able to get up 7 a game in summer league and o thought he could’ve taken more.


As the first option. But bigger issue is that it seems Kerr is penciling in podz as the starter. Which leaves us with no bench pg, no defense, and more small ball.

I'd expect Podz will still be the bench pg. Curry is going to get taken out early and podz will run the team and then curry will come back in at end of quarters hopefully. But yea Podz is going to get 30 mpg most likely. If you're worried about small ball then Draymond is small for his position by like 3". TJD is small for his position by like 3". Podz is small for a 2 guard by like 2". I mean ideally Moody would be good enough to take the starting sg spot but he's only taller than Podz by .75", and sure his wingspan makes up for that but Podz rebounds and is willing to fight downlow so whatever. Podz doesn't really play small.


Doesn't seem like Podz rebounding actually helps the team rebound much better:

Code: Select all

STAT                ON      OFF     DIFF
DReb% - Missed FTs   0.906   0.924   -0.02
OReb% - Missed FTs   0.129   0.089   0.04
DReb% - Missed 2s   0.702   0.682   0.02
OReb% - Missed 2s   0.345   0.322   0.02
DReb% - Missed 3s   0.765   0.774   -0.01
OReb% - Missed 3s   0.302   0.266   0.04
DReb% - Missed FGs   0.733   0.727   0.01
OReb% - Missed FGs   0.324   0.293   0.03
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#71 » by Onus » Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:07 pm

EvanZ wrote:
Onus wrote:
Crazy-Canuck wrote:
As the first option. But bigger issue is that it seems Kerr is penciling in podz as the starter. Which leaves us with no bench pg, no defense, and more small ball.

I'd expect Podz will still be the bench pg. Curry is going to get taken out early and podz will run the team and then curry will come back in at end of quarters hopefully. But yea Podz is going to get 30 mpg most likely. If you're worried about small ball then Draymond is small for his position by like 3". TJD is small for his position by like 3". Podz is small for a 2 guard by like 2". I mean ideally Moody would be good enough to take the starting sg spot but he's only taller than Podz by .75", and sure his wingspan makes up for that but Podz rebounds and is willing to fight downlow so whatever. Podz doesn't really play small.


Doesn't seem like Podz rebounding actually helps the team rebound much better:

Code: Select all

STAT                ON      OFF     DIFF
DReb% - Missed FTs   0.906   0.924   -0.02
OReb% - Missed FTs   0.129   0.089   0.04
DReb% - Missed 2s   0.702   0.682   0.02
OReb% - Missed 2s   0.345   0.322   0.02
DReb% - Missed 3s   0.765   0.774   -0.01
OReb% - Missed 3s   0.302   0.266   0.04
DReb% - Missed FGs   0.733   0.727   0.01
OReb% - Missed FGs   0.324   0.293   0.03

So you're saying his size doesn't hurt us for rebounding since these numbers are insignificant
Most 4th Quarter Points in Final since 1991
1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#72 » by EvanZ » Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:28 pm

Onus wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Onus wrote:I'd expect Podz will still be the bench pg. Curry is going to get taken out early and podz will run the team and then curry will come back in at end of quarters hopefully. But yea Podz is going to get 30 mpg most likely. If you're worried about small ball then Draymond is small for his position by like 3". TJD is small for his position by like 3". Podz is small for a 2 guard by like 2". I mean ideally Moody would be good enough to take the starting sg spot but he's only taller than Podz by .75", and sure his wingspan makes up for that but Podz rebounds and is willing to fight downlow so whatever. Podz doesn't really play small.


Doesn't seem like Podz rebounding actually helps the team rebound much better:

Code: Select all

STAT                ON      OFF     DIFF
DReb% - Missed FTs   0.906   0.924   -0.02
OReb% - Missed FTs   0.129   0.089   0.04
DReb% - Missed 2s   0.702   0.682   0.02
OReb% - Missed 2s   0.345   0.322   0.02
DReb% - Missed 3s   0.765   0.774   -0.01
OReb% - Missed 3s   0.302   0.266   0.04
DReb% - Missed FGs   0.733   0.727   0.01
OReb% - Missed FGs   0.324   0.293   0.03

So you're saying his size doesn't hurt us for rebounding since these numbers are insignificant


No, I'm saying his rebounding doesn't help, despite all the times it's being mentioned. His size almost certainly hurts us defensively.

The truth about his rebounding is he's likely stealing rebounds from other players. Similar to David Lee.
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#73 » by Onus » Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:39 pm

EvanZ wrote:
Onus wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Doesn't seem like Podz rebounding actually helps the team rebound much better:

Code: Select all

STAT                ON      OFF     DIFF
DReb% - Missed FTs   0.906   0.924   -0.02
OReb% - Missed FTs   0.129   0.089   0.04
DReb% - Missed 2s   0.702   0.682   0.02
OReb% - Missed 2s   0.345   0.322   0.02
DReb% - Missed 3s   0.765   0.774   -0.01
OReb% - Missed 3s   0.302   0.266   0.04
DReb% - Missed FGs   0.733   0.727   0.01
OReb% - Missed FGs   0.324   0.293   0.03

So you're saying his size doesn't hurt us for rebounding since these numbers are insignificant


No, I'm saying his rebounding doesn't help, despite all the times it's being mentioned. His size almost certainly hurts us defensively.

The truth about his rebounding is he's likely stealing rebounds from other players. Similar to David Lee.

Do the numbers really say he's hurting us defensively? Because CDM said his numbers say he's avg to above avg defensively?
Most 4th Quarter Points in Final since 1991
1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#74 » by EvanZ » Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:02 pm

Onus wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Onus wrote:So you're saying his size doesn't hurt us for rebounding since these numbers are insignificant


No, I'm saying his rebounding doesn't help, despite all the times it's being mentioned. His size almost certainly hurts us defensively.

The truth about his rebounding is he's likely stealing rebounds from other players. Similar to David Lee.

Do the numbers really say he's hurting us defensively? Because CDM said his numbers say he's avg to above avg defensively?


He does not have playoff size and he's not as good a defender as Melton or Moody. That's what I mean. If he was a full-time point guard, that's a different story. But if he's playing the 2, it's a liability in my opinion.
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#75 » by EvanZ » Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:13 pm

There are a couple other assumptions people are making that I think are wrong. The first is that he can increase his 3pt volume arbitrarily without losing efficiency. They think he can just take more of the open shots he’s turning down. The faulty logic there is the counterfactual that as his volume goes up the defenses won’t adjust. Of course they will. Kuminga is left open because defenses know he can’t hurt you. Same with Podz. That might change but defenses will adjust. There are only a few players in the league that can shoot a high volume of 3s and remain efficient. You can count them on one hand probably. Is Podz one of those? I hope so but that certainly isn’t a certainty. The other implicit assumption is that as his usage goes up he will not be hurt on the defensive end. But you should know that guards with high usage invariably give up some defensive energy to conserve themselves on offense. Podz would be no different. This has been notably obvious with guys like Halliburton and Fox recently.
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#76 » by Onus » Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:23 pm

EvanZ wrote:
Onus wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
No, I'm saying his rebounding doesn't help, despite all the times it's being mentioned. His size almost certainly hurts us defensively.

The truth about his rebounding is he's likely stealing rebounds from other players. Similar to David Lee.

Do the numbers really say he's hurting us defensively? Because CDM said his numbers say he's avg to above avg defensively?


He does not have playoff size and he's not as good a defender as Melton or Moody. That's what I mean. If he was a full-time point guard, that's a different story. But if he's playing the 2, it's a liability in my opinion.

He just finished his rookie year, I would hope those 2 are better defenders.

So Curry is going to get 30 minutes which means there's only 18 min for BP to play backup pg (that's not enough minutes if he's supposedly untouchable) so maybe he plays 12 minutes with Curry?

The issue will be closing and who closes. We know Kerr likes to have a set closing lineup (for his robotic rotations) and I'd imagine BP will have first crack at it but if Melton or Moody can out play BP, by the end of the season they can take that closing spot. They'll get their shot at some point most likely unless BP just kills it and we're far away in the standings. Kerr really is in a tough spot because this team will most likely need to be played based on matchups and Kerr just isn't a good matchup coach. Really a poor fit for the current roster.
Most 4th Quarter Points in Final since 1991
1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#77 » by Onus » Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:33 pm

EvanZ wrote:There are a couple other assumptions people are making that I think are wrong. The first is that he can increase his 3pt volume arbitrarily without losing efficiency. They think he can just take more of the open shots he’s turning down. The faulty logic there is the counterfactual that as his volume goes up the defenses won’t adjust. Of course they will. Kuminga is left open because defenses know he can’t hurt you. Same with Podz. That might change but defenses will adjust. There are only a few players in the league that can shoot a high volume of 3s and remain efficient. You can count them on one hand probably. Is Podz one of those? I hope so but that certainly isn’t a certainty. The other implicit assumption is that as his usage goes up he will not be hurt on the defensive end. But you should know that guards with high usage invariably give up some defensive energy to conserve themselves on offense. Podz would be no different. This has been notably obvious with guys like Halliburton and Fox recently.

1st assumption. I agree getting his volume up will be difficult. I think he can get up to 5 comfortably but once you get pass 5 then the defense starts taking that away, which is fine because really he wants to drive and kick anyway. So if he can get anywhere above 5 and maintain his efficiency then that's a win for year 2. Him getting to 8-10 like Kerr wants is probably unrealistic but it's a nice goal to reach at some point. TBH I don't think he ever gets to 10.

I don't think he's going to be a high usage guard. He's not going to be asked to take over primary creation for large parts of the game. 18 min when steph sits, but they're still going to run offense through Kyle, hopefully TJD, Dray, Melton. Like there's a lot more decision makers on this team now. We know we'll run a lot of offense for JK and Buddy is going to get shots up. He should probably settle somewhere between 3rd or 4th most shot attempts but it's not like we're going to give him the ball and ask him to make a play down the court on every possession like Hali or Fox do. So yea it would be difficult to do, but he knows that when he's playing with Steph he's guarding the toughest perimeter assignment and he just needs to hit open shots and attack closeouts. When he's not playing with Steph he's still running the offense, we aren't going to go 1 flat and just have him iso the entire possession. He will probably end up with the ball in his hands more often but he's still going to have to go through jk isos, Buddy running around screens and then if the play falters maybe make a play. It's not the same as the high usage guards you're citing.
Most 4th Quarter Points in Final since 1991
1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#78 » by EvanZ » Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:50 pm

Onus wrote:
EvanZ wrote:There are a couple other assumptions people are making that I think are wrong. The first is that he can increase his 3pt volume arbitrarily without losing efficiency. They think he can just take more of the open shots he’s turning down. The faulty logic there is the counterfactual that as his volume goes up the defenses won’t adjust. Of course they will. Kuminga is left open because defenses know he can’t hurt you. Same with Podz. That might change but defenses will adjust. There are only a few players in the league that can shoot a high volume of 3s and remain efficient. You can count them on one hand probably. Is Podz one of those? I hope so but that certainly isn’t a certainty. The other implicit assumption is that as his usage goes up he will not be hurt on the defensive end. But you should know that guards with high usage invariably give up some defensive energy to conserve themselves on offense. Podz would be no different. This has been notably obvious with guys like Halliburton and Fox recently.

1st assumption. I agree getting his volume up will be difficult. I think he can get up to 5 comfortably but once you get pass 5 then the defense starts taking that away, which is fine because really he wants to drive and kick anyway. So if he can get anywhere above 5 and maintain his efficiency then that's a win for year 2. Him getting to 8-10 like Kerr wants is probably unrealistic but it's a nice goal to reach at some point. TBH I don't think he ever gets to 10.

I don't think he's going to be a high usage guard. He's not going to be asked to take over primary creation for large parts of the game. 18 min when steph sits, but they're still going to run offense through Kyle, hopefully TJD, Dray, Melton. Like there's a lot more decision makers on this team now. We know we'll run a lot of offense for JK and Buddy is going to get shots up. He should probably settle somewhere between 3rd or 4th most shot attempts but it's not like we're going to give him the ball and ask him to make a play down the court on every possession like Hali or Fox do. So yea it would be difficult to do, but he knows that when he's playing with Steph he's guarding the toughest perimeter assignment and he just needs to hit open shots and attack closeouts. When he's not playing with Steph he's still running the offense, we aren't going to go 1 flat and just have him iso the entire possession. He will probably end up with the ball in his hands more often but he's still going to have to go through jk isos, Buddy running around screens and then if the play falters maybe make a play. It's not the same as the high usage guards you're citing.


Uh...this raises the question. If you believe he's not "that guy" why on earth is he considered "untouchable" to the point where you don't trade him for a Lauri, who definitely is "that guy"? Seems odd to me. Like in the best case scenario he's basically DDV?
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#79 » by Onus » Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:56 pm

EvanZ wrote:
Onus wrote:
EvanZ wrote:There are a couple other assumptions people are making that I think are wrong. The first is that he can increase his 3pt volume arbitrarily without losing efficiency. They think he can just take more of the open shots he’s turning down. The faulty logic there is the counterfactual that as his volume goes up the defenses won’t adjust. Of course they will. Kuminga is left open because defenses know he can’t hurt you. Same with Podz. That might change but defenses will adjust. There are only a few players in the league that can shoot a high volume of 3s and remain efficient. You can count them on one hand probably. Is Podz one of those? I hope so but that certainly isn’t a certainty. The other implicit assumption is that as his usage goes up he will not be hurt on the defensive end. But you should know that guards with high usage invariably give up some defensive energy to conserve themselves on offense. Podz would be no different. This has been notably obvious with guys like Halliburton and Fox recently.

1st assumption. I agree getting his volume up will be difficult. I think he can get up to 5 comfortably but once you get pass 5 then the defense starts taking that away, which is fine because really he wants to drive and kick anyway. So if he can get anywhere above 5 and maintain his efficiency then that's a win for year 2. Him getting to 8-10 like Kerr wants is probably unrealistic but it's a nice goal to reach at some point. TBH I don't think he ever gets to 10.

I don't think he's going to be a high usage guard. He's not going to be asked to take over primary creation for large parts of the game. 18 min when steph sits, but they're still going to run offense through Kyle, hopefully TJD, Dray, Melton. Like there's a lot more decision makers on this team now. We know we'll run a lot of offense for JK and Buddy is going to get shots up. He should probably settle somewhere between 3rd or 4th most shot attempts but it's not like we're going to give him the ball and ask him to make a play down the court on every possession like Hali or Fox do. So yea it would be difficult to do, but he knows that when he's playing with Steph he's guarding the toughest perimeter assignment and he just needs to hit open shots and attack closeouts. When he's not playing with Steph he's still running the offense, we aren't going to go 1 flat and just have him iso the entire possession. He will probably end up with the ball in his hands more often but he's still going to have to go through jk isos, Buddy running around screens and then if the play falters maybe make a play. It's not the same as the high usage guards you're citing.


Uh...this raises the question. If you believe he's not "that guy" why on earth is he considered "untouchable" to the point where you don't trade him for a Lauri, who definitely is "that guy"? Seems odd to me. Like in the best case scenario he's basically DDV?

It's not like it's a 1 for 1 trade. The only thing we know is that Utah countered with everything and we may or may not have countered. I would hope that we did make a counter offer that included podz but we don't know if they did or not. But just based on what Utah countered with that would've been a severe overpay. I would've paid close to it and maybe even did it but I'm willing to do anything to get Curry a 5th for his final 2 year window and willing to cash out the next 6 years for that. But it's not my billions of dollars on the line.
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Re: It's only been a year and Brandin Podziemski is already Overrated 

Post#80 » by CDM_Stats » Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:08 pm

I’m not worried, or at least not as much as usual, of a Podz defensive drop off with more scoring opps.. he’s already exerting a lot on offense, and I think the increase in usage would mostly be things like pull-ups and being more aggressive on C&S opps. Realistically I’d like to see 1-2 more 3pt attempts per game.. if it’s more, great, but I’d like to aim for a goal that’s more achievable than optimistic

Defensively he’s so hard to predict because taking charges is so difficult to project outwards. He’s ok enough without them, but unless he spikes in scoring, he’ll need the charges to be consistently high if he ever wants to be more than a 3rd guard. Jack of all trades types are great to have off the bench but building blocks need something they can really excel at, and Podz doesn’t have that yet

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