The Rebuild Thread

[DonaldSanders]

The reason i always start with Wiggins is that he has win-now value to someone without being a lifelong Warrior. There is zero reason to keep him around in a rebuild. But i’m totally willing to do a complete tear down.

I think you can actually continue building Wiggins as an asset with a full good season under his belt. A lot of people are still wondering if this year's resurgence is the new norm and last year was a down year (for a myriad of reasons that could be brought up). Right now that team is committing to 2.5 seasons of Wiggins, this year at 26.3 with the following seasons seeing his contract increase to 28.2 and 30.1 million based on half a season of good play after a disaster season where most some him as a negative contract.

I think a full year of solid play, especially if we can make a gearshift from this rut into more wins, actually increases his value. This off-season would be his peak value if his play stays at the same rate -- 2 year contract, not a huge commitment, and a full year to confirm it was not an aberration.

I wonder what Draymond's value is to another team. $70MM in salary for the rest of this year plus two more years. That might be hard for a GM to justify.

I agree his contract might not have a lot of value to most teams. But if you are looking to the future more, might as well move on now for what you can get. Maybe it's not a lot, that's why I'm shopping him for other contracts that don't look great but do have upside, like say a Zion. Maybe NOP then flips him again, I don't know. Maybe another team gets an injury and needs defense at the deadline, and they're willing to give up some assets for him. Teams make bad trades all the time, we should at minimum be shopping him. But definitely, he could not be viewed very highly by many teams. All it takes is one though!

[xdrta+]

From a CBA and contract point of view, is it to trade Steph for value?

If Steph isnt here anymore, then the whole tax situation is pretty moot anyways. Only really matters if we're trying to contend.. if we're not, then only thing that matters is to stack assets, as the team doesnt currently have any young players who profile as a top 3 player on a winner

I wasn’t thinking about whether they should trade him. I was wondering whether there’s even a market for his contract. Maybe there’s a team that could take him on.

Trading a $55MM contract mid-season wouldn't be easy. There are 21 teams either over the Apron (they have to send out 100% of what they take back) or hard-capped at the 1st Apron (they can send out less but have to fit the incoming under the Apron.) Finding a team that can cobble together enough salary within these constraints wouldn't be easy.

From the Warriors point of view, I would think they would be glad enough to take on big enough bad contracts as long as they were expiring, or close to it, and there was plenty of draft capital with them.

[jozef]

moved

[SpreeS]

GSW do no not need any rebuild.
Curry is the best PG and offensive player in the league and Green is the top defender and passer. That's good foundation for a chapionship team.

My point is that the frontcourt is thin and undersized a bit and it does take very careful approach to not get in a disadvantage there. Simply Davis needs to start at C against star players and Looney needs to play backup minutes. For 10 minutes a small PF/C (Kuminga + Green) is good option but not any longer.

The threepoint shot is at one end of offensive spectrum and the dunk option (from big guy = athletic at least 6-9 or big fella 6-11plus) is at the other end of that spectrum. A team needs both options to work properly. It does also work on the defensive end cause opponent usually target one big player on picknroll and the defense needs second big to stop the roll.

There needs to be a certain level of cumulative height. Steve Kerr malfunctioned his own masterpiece by going small.

Look at other samples:
Denver needs Aaron Gordon to play alongside Jokic cause despite being 6-11 Jokic is not athletic enough. Take Gordon out and Denver is easily beatable by any team.
Sacramento struggles cause they play only one true big Sabonis. Mike Brown seems clueless in an article yesterday. My advice to him is Jerry Sloan phrase: “You can't win the Kentucky Derby on a donkey”. Same with GSW.
https://sports.yahoo.com/brown-shoulders-blame-kings-self-072620526.html

“It is what it is,” Brown told reporters at Golden 1 Center. “That’s why I didn’t yell at the guys. There’s nothing to yell about. They know exactly what we have to do. It’s whether or not we go do it. Tonight we didn’t go do it.
While Sacramento made a slight improvement in defending the paint – the Lakers scored 44 points in the paint compared to the 76 that the Denver Nuggets dropped on them a few days earlier – the Kings still are not matching the physical aspects that their opponents have been bringing.

That has led to the breakdowns in boxing out while opening things up for opposing teams to be active on the boards. Three days after allowing a season-high 15 offensive rebounds against the Nuggets, the Kings matched that by giving up another 15 to the Lakers that led to 18 second-chance points.
“The way we played both defensively and offensively was not good,” Brown said. “They touched our paint whenever they wanted, they drove us whenever they wanted. They manhandled us on the boards.”

These days are gone. Also we could have new coach after next 8 games.

[watch1958]

If Steph isnt here anymore, then the whole tax situation is pretty moot anyways. Only really matters if we're trying to contend.. if we're not, then only thing that matters is to stack assets, as the team doesnt currently have any young players who profile as a top 3 player on a winner

I wasn’t thinking about whether they should trade him. I was wondering whether there’s even a market for his contract. Maybe there’s a team that could take him on.

Trading a $55MM contract mid-season wouldn't be easy. There are 21 teams either over the Apron (they have to send out 100% of what they take back) or hard-capped at the 1st Apron (they can send out less but have to fit the incoming under the Apron.) Finding a team that can cobble together enough salary within these constraints wouldn't be easy.

From the Warriors point of view, I would think they would be glad enough to take on big enough bad contracts as long as they were expiring, or close to it, and there was plenty of draft capital with them.

That’s why the field is so narrow. Team would need room or contracts, and would need this version of Steph to be worth plenty of draft capital.

[HiRez]

GSW do no not need any rebuild.
Curry is the best PG and offensive player in the league and Green is the top defender and passer. That's good foundation for a chapionship team.

I don't think any of those things are true anymore. They're still very good players but Steph is not a top 3 player now, he might not even be a top 10 player. If those 2 guys fall off just a bit, you don't have an advantage anymore because other teams have super skilled, athletic players who are 12+ years younger. Guys like Doncic, Morant, JJJ, Holmgren, Tatum, SGA, Wagner, Mobley, and Wembanyama. Not to mention the young role players who can blanket and shut down Steph. And those are the guys they're going to have to beat in playoff series. On certain nights the old magic shows itself, but it's obvious they don't have the juice to do it consistently anymore. They just played an awful, lethargic game with as much rest as they're ever going to have this season.

[jozef]

moved

[EvanZ]

I still think Steph to Cleveland for Garland and picks…let him make one more real run at a title.

There’s still time for a full on tank this season and a loaded draft.

[Onus]

Hell, picks would make us better. I’m asking for a youth movement here. Lets start getting the farm system in order. Do i need a specific trade to participate? Did anyone here name any of the OKC trades exactly during their beginning of their rebuild?

Yes you’re throwing away Steph’s last year to run into the dark ages like I said.

[jozef]

moved

[watch1958]

I still think Steph to Cleveland for Garland and picks…let him make one more real run at a title.

There’s still time for a full on tank this season and a loaded draft.

Ironic if he got his 5th in Cleveland. Poor LeKing.

[CDM_Stats]

From a CBA and contract point of view, is it to trade Steph for value?

If Steph isnt here anymore, then the whole tax situation is pretty moot anyways. Only really matters if we're trying to contend.. if we're not, then only thing that matters is to stack assets, as the team doesnt currently have any young players who profile as a top 3 player on a winner

I wasn’t thinking about whether they should trade him. I was wondering whether there’s even a market for his contract. Maybe there’s a team that could take him on.

Oh that aspect... yeah midseason deals are a no go for someone like Steph

Offseason is still difficult but a massive contract, an old guy.. you need as many suitors as possible and as much flexibility as possible. Hypothetically anyways.. still see it as a 0.0000001% chance its even on the table at all. And if he stays, odds are Dray stays. The Patriots definitely shuffled out the majority of the team, but Brady and his best buddy Gronk? Only way they were leaving is if they chose it. Same with Steph and Dray most likely

[floppymoose]

Hell, picks would make us better. I’m asking for a youth movement here. Lets start getting the farm system in order. Do i need a specific trade to participate? Did anyone here name any of the OKC trades exactly during their beginning of their rebuild?

Yes you’re throwing away Steph’s last year to run into the dark ages like I said.

Does that mean you think there is a path to a championship?

[Onus]

Hell, picks would make us better. I’m asking for a youth movement here. Lets start getting the farm system in order. Do i need a specific trade to participate? Did anyone here name any of the OKC trades exactly during their beginning of their rebuild?

Yes you’re throwing away Steph’s last year to run into the dark ages like I said.

Does that mean you think there is a path to a championship?

I’d like to see what the 4 man unit of curry/buddy/wiggs/dray looks like. Give them an extended run to see what they can do. Until I see this unit continuously fail I have faith that there’s something there.

I still think the biggest need is a stretch big/wing (cam Johnson maybe John Collins) to open up the paint to help the offense. In lieu of that I’d take a shot at Zion. If he can have a healthy playoff run he would be the 1b type of player to carry the offense. He was the best player on the court in the play in with LeBron and ad on the court.

[Jester_]

I wonder what Draymond's value is to another team. $70MM in salary for the rest of this year plus two more years. That might be hard for a GM to justify.

I think he's effectively worthless. Who wants an over the hill locker room cancer who's seen by many as just a system player on that contract

[CDM_Stats]

I wonder what Draymond's value is to another team. $70MM in salary for the rest of this year plus two more years. That might be hard for a GM to justify.

I think he's effectively worthless. Who wants an over the hill locker room cancer who's seen by many as just a system player on that contract

He is, and there's a lot of reasons for it, but the #1 reason is that if the Warriors are trying to win and they are willing to use Dray's contract as salary ballast, that effectively makes him a large net negative value. A team that's not trying to win wont value what he can bring, and a team trying to win probably isnt dealing anyone useful

And that's if the Warriors were even OK with dealing him, which they wouldnt be. He's here for the duration, and that's fine considering our interior defense was mostly crap tonight. The biggest problem with him is that they have to stop spamming the Steph/Dray PnR because neither is explosive enough for it to be used as much as it is currently

[HiRez]

I wonder what Draymond's value is to another team. $70MM in salary for the rest of this year plus two more years. That might be hard for a GM to justify.

I think he's effectively worthless. Who wants an over the hill locker room cancer who's seen by many as just a system player on that contract

He is, and there's a lot of reasons for it, but the #1 reason is that if the Warriors are trying to win and they are willing to use Dray's contract as salary ballast, that effectively makes him a large net negative value. A team that's not trying to win wont value what he can bring, and a team trying to win probably isnt dealing anyone useful

And that's if the Warriors were even OK with dealing him, which they wouldnt be. He's here for the duration, and that's fine considering our interior defense was mostly crap tonight. The biggest problem with him is that they have to stop spamming the Steph/Dray PnR because neither is explosive enough for it to be used as much as it is currently

Dray and everyone else on the Warriors also need to stop trying to hit homerun 70 foot passes, and thread-the-needle-in-traffic passes. Or at least be more judicial with them. Even though they work in spectacular fashion sometimes, I don't think they work often enough to justify all the turnovers (and resulting points off). In the 3 games Draymond has missed, the Warriors are averaging 11.3 turnovers, vs. the 15.0 they commit when he does play. I don't think that's a coincidence (although as I say, he's not the only guilty party).

[CDM_Stats]

I think he's effectively worthless. Who wants an over the hill locker room cancer who's seen by many as just a system player on that contract

He is, and there's a lot of reasons for it, but the #1 reason is that if the Warriors are trying to win and they are willing to use Dray's contract as salary ballast, that effectively makes him a large net negative value. A team that's not trying to win wont value what he can bring, and a team trying to win probably isnt dealing anyone useful

And that's if the Warriors were even OK with dealing him, which they wouldnt be. He's here for the duration, and that's fine considering our interior defense was mostly crap tonight. The biggest problem with him is that they have to stop spamming the Steph/Dray PnR because neither is explosive enough for it to be used as much as it is currently

Dray and everyone else on the Warriors also need to stop trying to hit homerun 70 foot passes, and thread-the-needle-in-traffic passes. Or at least be more judicial with them. Even though they work in spectacular fashion sometimes, I don't think they work often enough to justify all the turnovers (and resulting points off). In the 3 games Draymond has missed, the Warriors are averaging 11.3 turnovers, vs. the 15.0 they commit when he does play. I don't think that's a coincidence (although as I say, he's not the only guilty party).

Yup, Dray has not adjusted his game much, outside from the 3pt shooting, since the sniping SG left. Which is a big reason why the Hield thing is a big deal for me - that spacing allows someone like Dray to get away with those internal passes more. Him and Steph got very used to a certain style of play where guards couldnt dig down as much or couldnt leave the SG at all.. they played with Looney, who timed his off-ball screens in a way that his man couldn't run to the rim for fear of leaving that SG for an open shot. And all of this resulted in better passing lanes, more open 3s for the SG or Wiggins, and all that

For all their IQ, its hard to break a 10 year pattern.. instead of fighting against that current, they ought to swim with it

The alternative, like playing w/o Dray, is a slightly better product but still nowhere near a legitimate threat to win in the playoffs. I'd even argue that its overall worse, as a commitment to that style of play puts us right back into the MJax years - a gameplan thats good enough to be good enough, but not for anything else

[Onus]

I wonder how much longer jk is on this team. Kerr was pretty clearly upset with jk in the minny game especially in the post game.

Jk then proceeds to put up the peace sign 3x on his Instagram.

[wco81]

It’s time.

And Curry has been awful when he dribbles into the paint this season. Either injured or old, just not the 3-level scorer he was even as recently as a season ago.

Young players are at best okay rotation players, not part of a good playoffs team.

It’s been at least a half decade of poor or awful drafting and player development. Lacob should be cleaning house, especially the scouting. Look at tonite, Lakers had Christi and Reeves playing a ton of minutes while recent WarrIors first round picks had little or no impact.

This roster has a play in ceiling at best. Let Curry have his retirement tour — honestly don’t see the Warriors getting a big haul for a declining SG and they should let him retire here if he wants — but save the picks and trade for draft assets, plan to be in the lottery for at least 5 seasons, especially top 5 lottery range.