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Mylie10 wrote:Lots of evidence of Wiseman passing the ball in high school and AAU. If you guys would have payed attention to Penny’s offense, it was 1990’s basketball. It was post up Wiseman and then force feed the ball into the post. Whether he was doubled or not, often times.
Not saying he’s Draymond, but will be vastly better than Javale.
jason bourne wrote:My thinking is Warriors should get a potential 3-pt threat instead of a C in the draft. I think that would be more important for the near future. I'd be okay to get LaMelo as he would be an excellent backup PG. I'm not sure about he becoming a 3-pt threat, but he's the type who I believe would work hard to do that. He could also be the best trade bait to get a vet 3-pt shooter. LaMelo seems to have drive and he looks to be tough minded. I don't know how strong he is physically. The other potential 3-pt shooter is Anthony Edwards. There could be better 3-pt shooters like Deni Avdija or Devin Vassell, but I don't know at this point. We don't have the usual videos to show how these players are. I have to trust the Warriors to pick the best out of those four, but that's who I like with the #2 pick.
I also heard about Desmond Bane so he's another potential guy. It would have to be another kind of trade as he would be mid to lower position in the draft.
northoakland510 wrote:jason bourne wrote:My thinking is Warriors should get a potential 3-pt threat instead of a C in the draft. I think that would be more important for the near future. I'd be okay to get LaMelo as he would be an excellent backup PG. I'm not sure about he becoming a 3-pt threat, but he's the type who I believe would work hard to do that. He could also be the best trade bait to get a vet 3-pt shooter. LaMelo seems to have drive and he looks to be tough minded. I don't know how strong he is physically. The other potential 3-pt shooter is Anthony Edwards. There could be better 3-pt shooters like Deni Avdija or Devin Vassell, but I don't know at this point. We don't have the usual videos to show how these players are. I have to trust the Warriors to pick the best out of those four, but that's who I like with the #2 pick.
I also heard about Desmond Bane so he's another potential guy. It would have to be another kind of trade as he would be mid to lower position in the draft.
How can you watch that Wiseman video and not see that is the type of player the Warriors need?
jason bourne wrote:northoakland510 wrote:jason bourne wrote:My thinking is Warriors should get a potential 3-pt threat instead of a C in the draft. I think that would be more important for the near future. I'd be okay to get LaMelo as he would be an excellent backup PG. I'm not sure about he becoming a 3-pt threat, but he's the type who I believe would work hard to do that. He could also be the best trade bait to get a vet 3-pt shooter. LaMelo seems to have drive and he looks to be tough minded. I don't know how strong he is physically. The other potential 3-pt shooter is Anthony Edwards. There could be better 3-pt shooters like Deni Avdija or Devin Vassell, but I don't know at this point. We don't have the usual videos to show how these players are. I have to trust the Warriors to pick the best out of those four, but that's who I like with the #2 pick.
I also heard about Desmond Bane so he's another potential guy. It would have to be another kind of trade as he would be mid to lower position in the draft.
How can you watch that Wiseman video and not see that is the type of player the Warriors need?
I think the Warriors will be looking for someone to clog the paint, get rebounds, and make passes from the perimeter. He doesn't necessarily have to be a shot blocker.
The primary knock on Wiseman is he is too soft. He tries to avoid contact and doesn't bang inside. He doesn't bang to get position and take the ball to the rack. He uses his size inside to get his shots and from rim running. He'll be challenged more in the NBA. His defense consists mainly of blocking shots. While Okongwu may not be a C in the NBA, he is a banger. If you look at the other big men in the draft such as isaiah Stewart, he's 6' 9" with 7' 4" ws, he can bang, rebound, and play defense. Wiseman will have to use his long arms and size for rebounds as he will likely be pushed outside in a half court set. In college, he can do that, but guys in the NBA are stronger, so he'll have to scrap to get inside.
His weakness shows as he quit on his team, too. Penny Hardaway his couch wanted him back after serving his suspension and would've helped him get a job to pay back the loan. Or Wiseman himself could've gone overseas to play pro. Instead, he just decided to quit and do his own workouts. That shows he's soft.
The other thing is fit on the Warriors. We know the guy can't shoot 3s even in his 3 games. He also will take longer to become a starter as he didn't take advantage of college games. It will take around 2 - 3 yrs for him to become a starter. Thus, Wiseman is better suited to be drafted by a younger team who will be patient and work with him more. He could become the focus for the offense.
jason bourne wrote:northoakland510 wrote:jason bourne wrote:My thinking is Warriors should get a potential 3-pt threat instead of a C in the draft. I think that would be more important for the near future. I'd be okay to get LaMelo as he would be an excellent backup PG. I'm not sure about he becoming a 3-pt threat, but he's the type who I believe would work hard to do that. He could also be the best trade bait to get a vet 3-pt shooter. LaMelo seems to have drive and he looks to be tough minded. I don't know how strong he is physically. The other potential 3-pt shooter is Anthony Edwards. There could be better 3-pt shooters like Deni Avdija or Devin Vassell, but I don't know at this point. We don't have the usual videos to show how these players are. I have to trust the Warriors to pick the best out of those four, but that's who I like with the #2 pick.
I also heard about Desmond Bane so he's another potential guy. It would have to be another kind of trade as he would be mid to lower position in the draft.
How can you watch that Wiseman video and not see that is the type of player the Warriors need?
I think the Warriors will be looking for someone to clog the paint, get rebounds, and make passes from the perimeter. He doesn't necessarily have to be a shot blocker.
The primary knock on Wiseman is he is too soft. He tries to avoid contact and doesn't bang inside. He doesn't bang to get position and take the ball to the rack. He uses his size inside to get his shots and from rim running. He'll be challenged more in the NBA. His defense consists mainly of blocking shots. While Okongwu may not be a C in the NBA, he is a banger. If you look at the other big men in the draft such as isaiah Stewart, he's 6' 9" with 7' 4" ws, he can bang, rebound, and play defense. Wiseman will have to use his long arms and size for rebounds as he will likely be pushed outside in a half court set. In college, he can do that, but guys in the NBA are stronger, so he'll have to scrap to get inside.
His weakness shows as he quit on his team, too. Penny Hardaway his couch wanted him back after serving his suspension and would've helped him get a job to pay back the loan. Or Wiseman himself could've gone overseas to play pro. Instead, he just decided to quit and do his own workouts. That shows he's soft.
The other thing is fit on the Warriors. We know the guy can't shoot 3s even in his 3 games. He also will take longer to become a starter as he didn't take advantage of college games. It will take around 2 - 3 yrs for him to become a starter. Thus, Wiseman is better suited to be drafted by a younger team who will be patient and work with him more. He could become the focus for the offense.
Onus wrote:Mylie10 wrote:Lots of evidence of Wiseman passing the ball in high school and AAU. If you guys would have payed attention to Penny’s offense, it was 1990’s basketball. It was post up Wiseman and then force feed the ball into the post. Whether he was doubled or not, often times.
Not saying he’s Draymond, but will be vastly better than Javale.
Can you link me to this video of wiseman in hs and aau or is this in his mixtapes?
jason bourne wrote:
Here's the type of team I think James Wiseman will excel in. Some team with a PG who can feed him the ball if he can be a force on offense inside. On the Warriors, he won't be part of the offense and will have to rim run.
Look at the Nets next season, if healthy, and they should have a nice big 3 and other starters and depth off the bench. They may debut as a top 4 team in the East. That's why I said the KD and Kyrie probably deserve more credit for which team they chose to go to. The question mark is Coach Steve Nash as he doesn't have a winning record as a coach nor much of a track record.
northoakland510 wrote:jason bourne wrote:northoakland510 wrote:
How can you watch that Wiseman video and not see that is the type of player the Warriors need?
I think the Warriors will be looking for someone to clog the paint, get rebounds, and make passes from the perimeter. He doesn't necessarily have to be a shot blocker.
The primary knock on Wiseman is he is too soft. He tries to avoid contact and doesn't bang inside. He doesn't bang to get position and take the ball to the rack. He uses his size inside to get his shots and from rim running. He'll be challenged more in the NBA. His defense consists mainly of blocking shots. While Okongwu may not be a C in the NBA, he is a banger. If you look at the other big men in the draft such as isaiah Stewart, he's 6' 9" with 7' 4" ws, he can bang, rebound, and play defense. Wiseman will have to use his long arms and size for rebounds as he will likely be pushed outside in a half court set. In college, he can do that, but guys in the NBA are stronger, so he'll have to scrap to get inside.
His weakness shows as he quit on his team, too. Penny Hardaway his couch wanted him back after serving his suspension and would've helped him get a job to pay back the loan. Or Wiseman himself could've gone overseas to play pro. Instead, he just decided to quit and do his own workouts. That shows he's soft.
The other thing is fit on the Warriors. We know the guy can't shoot 3s even in his 3 games. He also will take longer to become a starter as he didn't take advantage of college games. It will take around 2 - 3 yrs for him to become a starter. Thus, Wiseman is better suited to be drafted by a younger team who will be patient and work with him more. He could become the focus for the offense.
Man I have watched and read reviews on him and didn't hear anything about being soft. They did say he could put on more weight. He is young and has been the biggest player on the court most of his life, he is use to just using his size to get rebounds. That doesn't mean he can't bang if he has to. I like Okongwu, but I don't think he is big enough. I would really want to see him next to other NBA players, is he really a legit 6'9"?
The dude didn't quit on his team he quit on the NCAA. They screwed him over and why should he continue making them money? Ultimately it's about him and his career, why risk injury if you are already a top 5 pick? I do not see the issue with a player having to develop eventually the Warriors have to plan for the future.
jason bourne wrote:northoakland510 wrote:jason bourne wrote:
I think the Warriors will be looking for someone to clog the paint, get rebounds, and make passes from the perimeter. He doesn't necessarily have to be a shot blocker.
The primary knock on Wiseman is he is too soft. He tries to avoid contact and doesn't bang inside. He doesn't bang to get position and take the ball to the rack. He uses his size inside to get his shots and from rim running. He'll be challenged more in the NBA. His defense consists mainly of blocking shots. While Okongwu may not be a C in the NBA, he is a banger. If you look at the other big men in the draft such as isaiah Stewart, he's 6' 9" with 7' 4" ws, he can bang, rebound, and play defense. Wiseman will have to use his long arms and size for rebounds as he will likely be pushed outside in a half court set. In college, he can do that, but guys in the NBA are stronger, so he'll have to scrap to get inside.
His weakness shows as he quit on his team, too. Penny Hardaway his couch wanted him back after serving his suspension and would've helped him get a job to pay back the loan. Or Wiseman himself could've gone overseas to play pro. Instead, he just decided to quit and do his own workouts. That shows he's soft.
The other thing is fit on the Warriors. We know the guy can't shoot 3s even in his 3 games. He also will take longer to become a starter as he didn't take advantage of college games. It will take around 2 - 3 yrs for him to become a starter. Thus, Wiseman is better suited to be drafted by a younger team who will be patient and work with him more. He could become the focus for the offense.
Man I have watched and read reviews on him and didn't hear anything about being soft. They did say he could put on more weight. He is young and has been the biggest player on the court most of his life, he is use to just using his size to get rebounds. That doesn't mean he can't bang if he has to. I like Okongwu, but I don't think he is big enough. I would really want to see him next to other NBA players, is he really a legit 6'9"?
The dude didn't quit on his team he quit on the NCAA. They screwed him over and why should he continue making them money? Ultimately it's about him and his career, why risk injury if you are already a top 5 pick? I do not see the issue with a player having to develop eventually the Warriors have to plan for the future.
Sorry, but your post sounds like I ♥ Wiseman's measurements so I'll overlook everything he's not and still pick him. You thought he fit with the Warriors, but he would be a turrible fit here.
Today, Wiseman himself is saying he's a great passer but he never showed it. He doesn't exactly clog the paint either. DAJ did a better job of both at Texas A&M. Wiseman has more upside than DAJ on offense and as a rim runner. I'm not as sure with rebounding and defense. DAJ could be better there. Overall, Wiseman seems to have more athleticism. The knock on Wiseman is we haven't seen what we want and need to see in three college games.
Okongwu has a 7' 1" ws which probably makes him better suited at PF in the NBA. His game has been compared to Bam Adebayo, but Adebayo is an inch taller and has 2" longer ws. I think he's plenty tough for the NBA. He's already shown he likes physicality inside.
If the Ws draft a C, then it may be better with Isaiah Stewart. He can clog the paint, grab boards, block shots, and bang inside. Not a polished rim runner like Wiseman, but you don't have to set him up for him to get points inside. I think he's got a better shot from outside than Wiseman. No one knows about Wiseman's perimeter shooting or passing.
wco81 wrote:Did people notice how Bam struggled to finish in the paint vs. the Lakers? He wasn't fully healthy but he was pump faking a few times and still didn't make shots.
You can't teach 7 foot and 7-6 wing span.
I'm not against signing some minimum or low-salary deal for a vet C and just giving him a limited role. That is what Zaza was for the Warriors. But now that KD is gone, they need more than just clogging up space. Need more rebounding, shot blocking and maybe some upside.
Imagine deep in the playoffs, we have a vet C on a low contract. Is he going to get any respect from the refs? Does he have the upside to run the court in transition and get some big baskets or rebounds?
If nothing else, Wiseman would have young legs and more energy than an older vet center. Now we don't know if he'll have the motor or the competitiveness to play at 100 MPH. Damian Jones had youth, athletic ability but he didn't have the motor. He was poor at rebounding, didn't protect the rim and switched out onto a perimeter player, he didn't bear down and try to stay in front of him.
You'd expect Wiseman to be better than Jones in all areas but how much better?
Scoots1994 wrote:wco81 wrote:Did people notice how Bam struggled to finish in the paint vs. the Lakers? He wasn't fully healthy but he was pump faking a few times and still didn't make shots.
You can't teach 7 foot and 7-6 wing span.
I'm not against signing some minimum or low-salary deal for a vet C and just giving him a limited role. That is what Zaza was for the Warriors. But now that KD is gone, they need more than just clogging up space. Need more rebounding, shot blocking and maybe some upside.
Imagine deep in the playoffs, we have a vet C on a low contract. Is he going to get any respect from the refs? Does he have the upside to run the court in transition and get some big baskets or rebounds?
If nothing else, Wiseman would have young legs and more energy than an older vet center. Now we don't know if he'll have the motor or the competitiveness to play at 100 MPH. Damian Jones had youth, athletic ability but he didn't have the motor. He was poor at rebounding, didn't protect the rim and switched out onto a perimeter player, he didn't bear down and try to stay in front of him.
You'd expect Wiseman to be better than Jones in all areas but how much better?
You can't teach length but Shawn Bradley was still a marginal NBA player despite having better length.
The point is, Wiseman is big, but big by itself isn't worth the #2 pick. Does he have what it takes to maximize his talents? Nobody knows. It's as simple as that ... he may be great, he may be terrible, he's most likely to be average.
vagelis wrote:Two players that seem good and will not be selected in the first picks are Obi Toppin and Cole Anthony. What do you think about them? Would they be good fits and worth trading down for one of them?
northoakland510 wrote:Scoots1994 wrote:wco81 wrote:Did people notice how Bam struggled to finish in the paint vs. the Lakers? He wasn't fully healthy but he was pump faking a few times and still didn't make shots.
You can't teach 7 foot and 7-6 wing span.
I'm not against signing some minimum or low-salary deal for a vet C and just giving him a limited role. That is what Zaza was for the Warriors. But now that KD is gone, they need more than just clogging up space. Need more rebounding, shot blocking and maybe some upside.
Imagine deep in the playoffs, we have a vet C on a low contract. Is he going to get any respect from the refs? Does he have the upside to run the court in transition and get some big baskets or rebounds?
If nothing else, Wiseman would have young legs and more energy than an older vet center. Now we don't know if he'll have the motor or the competitiveness to play at 100 MPH. Damian Jones had youth, athletic ability but he didn't have the motor. He was poor at rebounding, didn't protect the rim and switched out onto a perimeter player, he didn't bear down and try to stay in front of him.
You'd expect Wiseman to be better than Jones in all areas but how much better?
You can't teach length but Shawn Bradley was still a marginal NBA player despite having better length.
The point is, Wiseman is big, but big by itself isn't worth the #2 pick. Does he have what it takes to maximize his talents? Nobody knows. It's as simple as that ... he may be great, he may be terrible, he's most likely to be average.
Bradley didn't have anywhere near the athleticism Wiseman has. We do not know if any of these draft picks will pan out, but I'll test the waters with a good big man before a good little man.
Scoots1994 wrote:northoakland510 wrote:Scoots1994 wrote:
You can't teach length but Shawn Bradley was still a marginal NBA player despite having better length.
The point is, Wiseman is big, but big by itself isn't worth the #2 pick. Does he have what it takes to maximize his talents? Nobody knows. It's as simple as that ... he may be great, he may be terrible, he's most likely to be average.
Bradley didn't have anywhere near the athleticism Wiseman has. We do not know if any of these draft picks will pan out, but I'll test the waters with a good big man before a good little man.
I didn't say he did, but "you can't teach 7 foot and 7-6 wing span" is put to rest by Bradley. Length alone is not enough.
This sizeist thinking is why Hasheem Thabeet was taken #2 in the same draft where Curry fell to #7, and how Sam Bowie was drafted before Michael Jordan. In both cases the teams were thinking "This guy is big and athletic and he's shown flashes of these valuable skills, how can we pass on that size for these smaller guys (or guys who play positions the team is already good at)"
Larger size is better ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL ... but with Wiseman (like with Thabeet) there is a lot of the data that is not available.
At the same time, teams have now been able to see a good deal of him competing against other elite prospects, where he's reportedly been "dominant." And players with his size -- 7-foot-1 with a 7-foot-6 wingspan -- and athleticism usually aren't complete busts. Ideally you'd like more than "well he won't be terrible" from a top-five pick, but if you're confused about who to take, falling back on the guy with the best physical tools is understandable.
northoakland510 wrote:Scoots1994 wrote:northoakland510 wrote:
Bradley didn't have anywhere near the athleticism Wiseman has. We do not know if any of these draft picks will pan out, but I'll test the waters with a good big man before a good little man.
I didn't say he did, but "you can't teach 7 foot and 7-6 wing span" is put to rest by Bradley. Length alone is not enough.
This sizeist thinking is why Hasheem Thabeet was taken #2 in the same draft where Curry fell to #7, and how Sam Bowie was drafted before Michael Jordan. In both cases the teams were thinking "This guy is big and athletic and he's shown flashes of these valuable skills, how can we pass on that size for these smaller guys (or guys who play positions the team is already good at)"
Larger size is better ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL ... but with Wiseman (like with Thabeet) there is a lot of the data that is not available.
Funny that you bring up Thabeet was just talking to one of my boys about him today. I asked him what was his issue, he basically he just wasn't ready. His coach told him he wasn't ready, but he still left. What I found interesting was that they said his core was so weak he couldn't get up without using his hands.
Coxy wrote:northoakland510 wrote:Scoots1994 wrote:
I didn't say he did, but "you can't teach 7 foot and 7-6 wing span" is put to rest by Bradley. Length alone is not enough.
This sizeist thinking is why Hasheem Thabeet was taken #2 in the same draft where Curry fell to #7, and how Sam Bowie was drafted before Michael Jordan. In both cases the teams were thinking "This guy is big and athletic and he's shown flashes of these valuable skills, how can we pass on that size for these smaller guys (or guys who play positions the team is already good at)"
Larger size is better ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL ... but with Wiseman (like with Thabeet) there is a lot of the data that is not available.
Funny that you bring up Thabeet was just talking to one of my boys about him today. I asked him what was his issue, he basically he just wasn't ready. His coach told him he wasn't ready, but he still left. What I found interesting was that they said his core was so weak he couldn't get up without using his hands.
He also didn't give a crap about the game of basketball.
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