Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft

[The411]

Let's face it, we don't really want Kuminga shooting many three-pointers right now. But he has to put one up every now and then, just like Draymond does, or it lets the defense off the hook. I look forward to what we have after the coaches work with him this year and the off-season on his shot.

Kuminga’s built like a tank, has solid handles, good counter moves, solid vision, and near elite athleticism.. the one thing he’s missing is a solid jumper, and even that is showing promise.

I want him shooting any and every 3pt shot he can, especially in garbage time. And even when he gets legit minutes I want to see it.. we’re 20-4, and IMO the whole point of having the cartoonish W/L record is that we can get away with long-term benefits at the expense of short term ones, like developing Kuminga/Wiseman/Moody and extra load management days.

Greenest of green lights for Kuminga behind the arc until shooting a 3 is no longer a big deal for him. Then once it becomes more about muscle memory, work on shot selection. I’m never worried about guys with decent BBIQ becoming checkers, and Kuminga definitely doesn’t seem the type

I have to chuckle at the near-elite athleticism because I'm struggling to think of a player his size that is more athletic. Sure his movement isn't as fluid as it could be, but he reminds me of Lebron when Lebron was in his teens. Clearly Lebron had much better basketball instincts at that point, but that put back dunk on Monday was absurd in terms of athleticism. It looked way too easy and it looked like he was floating for a second.

[FNQ]

Let's face it, we don't really want Kuminga shooting many three-pointers right now. But he has to put one up every now and then, just like Draymond does, or it lets the defense off the hook. I look forward to what we have after the coaches work with him this year and the off-season on his shot.

Kuminga’s built like a tank, has solid handles, good counter moves, solid vision, and near elite athleticism.. the one thing he’s missing is a solid jumper, and even that is showing promise.

I want him shooting any and every 3pt shot he can, especially in garbage time. And even when he gets legit minutes I want to see it.. we’re 20-4, and IMO the whole point of having the cartoonish W/L record is that we can get away with long-term benefits at the expense of short term ones, like developing Kuminga/Wiseman/Moody and extra load management days.

Greenest of green lights for Kuminga behind the arc until shooting a 3 is no longer a big deal for him. Then once it becomes more about muscle memory, work on shot selection. I’m never worried about guys with decent BBIQ becoming checkers, and Kuminga definitely doesn’t seem the type

I have to chuckle at the near-elite athleticism because I'm struggling to think of a player his size that is more athletic. Sure his movement isn't as fluid as it could be, but he reminds me of Lebron when Lebron was in his teens. Clearly Lebron had much better basketball instincts at that point, but that put back dunk on Monday was absurd in terms of athleticism. It looked way too easy and it looked like he was floating for a second.

Functional and non-functional athleticism are different. Everyone loves the head over the rim shots, but that's all aesthetic. Look forward to his inevitable dunk contest shows, but in terms of functionality, means way more if he has a quick 2nd jump and/or timing

LeBron had elite agility and still borderline has it 20 years later. Kuminga is and always has been more straight-line. Which is great, but the players with elite athleticism that translates are the ones that can change direction fastest with minimal speed dropoff. Just like with running backs and WRs, the NBA covets that type of thing more than anything.

Does that matter to Kuminga right now? Probably not, as he wont play many meaningful minutes, and when he does play them, teams wont sell out to stop him. But if he progresses to that point where he's a key player and offensive option, it will come into play, especially as it relates to avoid charges and adjusting to defenders in the middle

That fluidity you referenced is a big deal, probably the one most important aspect in the NBA. Agility. Top end speed, high-end vertical, most bench presses... which of those means more than the ability to change direction quickly?

[Scoots1994]

he's never gonna be a great 3pt shooter other than being a spot up guy kinda, but as long as you don't can't leave him open in the shooter spots that's all what counts, otherwise his bread&butter will be a slashing combo big who puts pressure on rim and thrives off kickouts. that's how he should be used.

Never say never...Kawhi was supposed to be terrible...he's at a career .384. Both Balls had broken shots. Lonzo is at .426 this season, and avg. .376 the last 2. JK can become good, but he needs to work on his shot. Right now he's flicking the ball with his wrists. Very few players can get consistency with a wristy shot action...Tim hardaway is the last I can remember.

its physics, mechanics, he'll never be a great shooter the same way LeBron's never been a great shooter, you cannot be a great shooter with that body type.

I doubt he'll ever be a great 3pt shooter, but there are not very many great 3pt shooters in NBA history. I want him to be functional. I don't buy that "body type" is the deciding factor though.

[Scoots1994]

Kuminga’s built like a tank, has solid handles, good counter moves, solid vision, and near elite athleticism.. the one thing he’s missing is a solid jumper, and even that is showing promise.

I want him shooting any and every 3pt shot he can, especially in garbage time. And even when he gets legit minutes I want to see it.. we’re 20-4, and IMO the whole point of having the cartoonish W/L record is that we can get away with long-term benefits at the expense of short term ones, like developing Kuminga/Wiseman/Moody and extra load management days.

Greenest of green lights for Kuminga behind the arc until shooting a 3 is no longer a big deal for him. Then once it becomes more about muscle memory, work on shot selection. I’m never worried about guys with decent BBIQ becoming checkers, and Kuminga definitely doesn’t seem the type

I have to chuckle at the near-elite athleticism because I'm struggling to think of a player his size that is more athletic. Sure his movement isn't as fluid as it could be, but he reminds me of Lebron when Lebron was in his teens. Clearly Lebron had much better basketball instincts at that point, but that put back dunk on Monday was absurd in terms of athleticism. It looked way too easy and it looked like he was floating for a second.

Functional and non-functional athleticism are different. Everyone loves the head over the rim shots, but that's all aesthetic. Look forward to his inevitable dunk contest shows, but in terms of functionality, means way more if he has a quick 2nd jump and/or timing

LeBron had elite agility and still borderline has it 20 years later. Kuminga is and always has been more straight-line. Which is great, but the players with elite athleticism that translates are the ones that can change direction fastest with minimal speed dropoff. Just like with running backs and WRs, the NBA covets that type of thing more than anything.

Does that matter to Kuminga right now? Probably not, as he wont play many meaningful minutes, and when he does play them, teams wont sell out to stop him. But if he progresses to that point where he's a key player and offensive option, it will come into play, especially as it relates to avoid charges and adjusting to defenders in the middle

That fluidity you referenced is a big deal, probably the one most important aspect in the NBA. Agility. Top end speed, high-end vertical, most bench presses... which of those means more than the ability to change direction quickly?

No question Kuminga has "elite athleticism", it's not "near" it is elite. Athleticism is measurable and he measures up.

What he does with it? What CAN he do with it? That is where the questions are. Most teen players in the NBA have a long way to go on both when they get there, and Kuminga is not the exception to that.

It usually takes time for players to learn how to maximize their use of their athletic gifts (it took years for Curry to get there). And I agree with you that I'd like to see Kuminga given plenty of freedom in as much time as he can be on the floor with the game not in doubt. Often the most effective way to grow someone's game is to have them make mistakes in game and get them corrected right away in a positive way.

So far there is very little to dislike about Kuminga.

[FNQ]

And if you give a kid a $20 bill, they'll think you're super rich because its more money than they've ever seen.

Athleticism is measurable, but I've actually seen how a couple connected places measure it. But since its all arbitrary, this need for fans to label it elite... go for it. But elite is not a word thats thrown around lightly in analysis and aside from fans, the term elite had not been thrown around for Kuminga. And again, this is not to take anything away from Kuminga, but saying "elite" means perfect in their world. Someone like Anthony Edwards is a true elite athlete by all measures, and not coincidentally he checked off the hardest box to be elite in - agility/COD.

So again - functional vs. not. Like I asked before - between the 4 main pillars (strength, speed, agility, vertical) of non-height/length athleticism, which is the most important in today's NBA?

Kuminga's agility, or at least as tested, stopped him from being elite, because its weighted so heavily. People can conflate it with being "elite for that size" but that's more about his broadness/strength than length, which means less. Its just like Blake Griffin's "elite" athleticism (held up as a cautionary tale here, btw) because he could jump so high, had strength, and was straight-line quick. Good BBIQ too.. so why was he such a mediocre defender?

All this to say - don't set impossibly high bars just because he's unlike any prospect we typically get. Kuminga + near elite agility would have never made it to the 7th pick. Shoot the messenger if it helps, but its still the reality

And it has no bearing on Kuminga, who has the exact same monster upside as he has all along, and appears to have a strong chance at realizing a lot of it

[Upperclass]

He's about the same athlete as Bam imo or younger Aaron Gordon (probably a bit quicker actually). He seems to be a small 5 in the same mold as a Horford or Bam as well.

[watch1958]

Kuminga & Moody playing with Santa Cruz tonight.

[a8bil]

And if you give a kid a $20 bill, they'll think you're super rich because its more money than they've ever seen.

Athleticism is measurable, but I've actually seen how a couple connected places measure it. But since its all arbitrary, this need for fans to label it elite... go for it. But elite is not a word thats thrown around lightly in analysis and aside from fans, the term elite had not been thrown around for Kuminga. And again, this is not to take anything away from Kuminga, but saying "elite" means perfect in their world. Someone like Anthony Edwards is a true elite athlete by all measures, and not coincidentally he checked off the hardest box to be elite in - agility/COD.

So again - functional vs. not. Like I asked before - between the 4 main pillars (strength, speed, agility, vertical) of non-height/length athleticism, which is the most important in today's NBA?

Kuminga's agility, or at least as tested, stopped him from being elite, because its weighted so heavily. People can conflate it with being "elite for that size" but that's more about his broadness/strength than length, which means less. Its just like Blake Griffin's "elite" athleticism (held up as a cautionary tale here, btw) because he could jump so high, had strength, and was straight-line quick. Good BBIQ too.. so why was he such a mediocre defender?

All this to say - don't set impossibly high bars just because he's unlike any prospect we typically get. Kuminga + near elite agility would have never made it to the 7th pick. Shoot the messenger if it helps, but its still the reality

And it has no bearing on Kuminga, who has the exact same monster upside as he has all along, and appears to have a strong chance at realizing a lot of it

I watch Kuminga guard 2 -4 and see a guy who has all the lateral quickness needed to be an elite player, even if he does not have elite COD athleticism. I agree on Ant...he's special, but there are some things I see JK doing that in my mind may even eclipse Ant's athleticism. That first step....

[ShootersShoot]

And if you give a kid a $20 bill, they'll think you're super rich because its more money than they've ever seen.

Athleticism is measurable, but I've actually seen how a couple connected places measure it. But since its all arbitrary, this need for fans to label it elite... go for it. But elite is not a word thats thrown around lightly in analysis and aside from fans, the term elite had not been thrown around for Kuminga. And again, this is not to take anything away from Kuminga, but saying "elite" means perfect in their world. Someone like Anthony Edwards is a true elite athlete by all measures, and not coincidentally he checked off the hardest box to be elite in - agility/COD.

So again - functional vs. not. Like I asked before - between the 4 main pillars (strength, speed, agility, vertical) of non-height/length athleticism, which is the most important in today's NBA?

Kuminga's agility, or at least as tested, stopped him from being elite, because its weighted so heavily. People can conflate it with being "elite for that size" but that's more about his broadness/strength than length, which means less. Its just like Blake Griffin's "elite" athleticism (held up as a cautionary tale here, btw) because he could jump so high, had strength, and was straight-line quick. Good BBIQ too.. so why was he such a mediocre defender?

All this to say - don't set impossibly high bars just because he's unlike any prospect we typically get. Kuminga + near elite agility would have never made it to the 7th pick. Shoot the messenger if it helps, but its still the reality

And it has no bearing on Kuminga, who has the exact same monster upside as he has all along, and appears to have a strong chance at realizing a lot of it

I watch Kuminga guard 2 -4 and see a guy who has all the lateral quickness needed to be an elite player, even if he does not have elite COD athleticism. I agree on Ant...he's special, but there are some things I see JK doing that in my mind may even eclipse Ant's athleticism. That first step....

When I watch kuminga in action I am legit speechless and blown away by the stuff he is capable of doing. Only bron and zion have left me even more blown away in the past decade or so. There are probably some other players like prime Dwight, but that list is very short. Kuminga is easily elite from a physical standpoint and that includes athleticism.

[FNQ]

And if you give a kid a $20 bill, they'll think you're super rich because its more money than they've ever seen.

Athleticism is measurable, but I've actually seen how a couple connected places measure it. But since its all arbitrary, this need for fans to label it elite... go for it. But elite is not a word thats thrown around lightly in analysis and aside from fans, the term elite had not been thrown around for Kuminga. And again, this is not to take anything away from Kuminga, but saying "elite" means perfect in their world. Someone like Anthony Edwards is a true elite athlete by all measures, and not coincidentally he checked off the hardest box to be elite in - agility/COD.

So again - functional vs. not. Like I asked before - between the 4 main pillars (strength, speed, agility, vertical) of non-height/length athleticism, which is the most important in today's NBA?

Kuminga's agility, or at least as tested, stopped him from being elite, because its weighted so heavily. People can conflate it with being "elite for that size" but that's more about his broadness/strength than length, which means less. Its just like Blake Griffin's "elite" athleticism (held up as a cautionary tale here, btw) because he could jump so high, had strength, and was straight-line quick. Good BBIQ too.. so why was he such a mediocre defender?

All this to say - don't set impossibly high bars just because he's unlike any prospect we typically get. Kuminga + near elite agility would have never made it to the 7th pick. Shoot the messenger if it helps, but its still the reality

And it has no bearing on Kuminga, who has the exact same monster upside as he has all along, and appears to have a strong chance at realizing a lot of it

I watch Kuminga guard 2 -4 and see a guy who has all the lateral quickness needed to be an elite player, even if he does not have elite COD athleticism. I agree on Ant...he's special, but there are some things I see JK doing that in my mind may even eclipse Ant's athleticism. That first step....

The first step thing is a bit of a trap, because (and I entirely agree with this premise) the people we worked for devalued it unless there was a credible jumper or above average passing. Which makes sense, because there have been countless straight-line speed athletes in the NBA before, and many werent successful. Ish Smith is an actual elite speed guy, and what good has that done?

These places define elite as the typical top 1-2% of the league, which usually is between 5-10 players, and a composite of numerous sub categories. Some I've listed here, some not. The majority of these elite athletes are not exactly great players, and thats probably why fans here just throw the word out as if its meaningless. Derrick Jones Jr, for example, is somewhere in the top 5, in all his 7pts/4rebs per night glory. Kuminga - though with much less data than more established players - is around the top 20-30 in terms of his composite, which still puts him in the 93rd-94th percentile

But also of note.. Kuminga doesnt have the best first step on the Warriors either. Its the same player who has the best acceleration on the team too..

[a8bil]

And if you give a kid a $20 bill, they'll think you're super rich because its more money than they've ever seen.

Athleticism is measurable, but I've actually seen how a couple connected places measure it. But since its all arbitrary, this need for fans to label it elite... go for it. But elite is not a word thats thrown around lightly in analysis and aside from fans, the term elite had not been thrown around for Kuminga. And again, this is not to take anything away from Kuminga, but saying "elite" means perfect in their world. Someone like Anthony Edwards is a true elite athlete by all measures, and not coincidentally he checked off the hardest box to be elite in - agility/COD.

So again - functional vs. not. Like I asked before - between the 4 main pillars (strength, speed, agility, vertical) of non-height/length athleticism, which is the most important in today's NBA?

Kuminga's agility, or at least as tested, stopped him from being elite, because its weighted so heavily. People can conflate it with being "elite for that size" but that's more about his broadness/strength than length, which means less. Its just like Blake Griffin's "elite" athleticism (held up as a cautionary tale here, btw) because he could jump so high, had strength, and was straight-line quick. Good BBIQ too.. so why was he such a mediocre defender?

All this to say - don't set impossibly high bars just because he's unlike any prospect we typically get. Kuminga + near elite agility would have never made it to the 7th pick. Shoot the messenger if it helps, but its still the reality

And it has no bearing on Kuminga, who has the exact same monster upside as he has all along, and appears to have a strong chance at realizing a lot of it

I watch Kuminga guard 2 -4 and see a guy who has all the lateral quickness needed to be an elite player, even if he does not have elite COD athleticism. I agree on Ant...he's special, but there are some things I see JK doing that in my mind may even eclipse Ant's athleticism. That first step....

The first step thing is a bit of a trap, because (and I entirely agree with this premise) the people we worked for devalued it unless there was a credible jumper or above average passing. Which makes sense, because there have been countless straight-line speed athletes in the NBA before, and many werent successful. Ish Smith is an actual elite speed guy, and what good has that done?

These places define elite as the typical top 1-2% of the league, which usually is between 5-10 players, and a composite of numerous sub categories. Some I've listed here, some not. The majority of these elite athletes are not exactly great players, and thats probably why fans here just throw the word out as if its meaningless. Derrick Jones Jr, for example, is somewhere in the top 5, in all his 7pts/4rebs per night glory. Kuminga - though with much less data than more established players - is around the top 20-30 in terms of his composite, which still puts him in the 93rd-94th percentile

But also of note.. Kuminga doesnt have the best first step on the Warriors either. Its the same player who has the best acceleration on the team too..

Which is whom? Poole? GPII? Looney?

[FNQ]

I watch Kuminga guard 2 -4 and see a guy who has all the lateral quickness needed to be an elite player, even if he does not have elite COD athleticism. I agree on Ant...he's special, but there are some things I see JK doing that in my mind may even eclipse Ant's athleticism. That first step....

The first step thing is a bit of a trap, because (and I entirely agree with this premise) the people we worked for devalued it unless there was a credible jumper or above average passing. Which makes sense, because there have been countless straight-line speed athletes in the NBA before, and many werent successful. Ish Smith is an actual elite speed guy, and what good has that done?

These places define elite as the typical top 1-2% of the league, which usually is between 5-10 players, and a composite of numerous sub categories. Some I've listed here, some not. The majority of these elite athletes are not exactly great players, and thats probably why fans here just throw the word out as if its meaningless. Derrick Jones Jr, for example, is somewhere in the top 5, in all his 7pts/4rebs per night glory. Kuminga - though with much less data than more established players - is around the top 20-30 in terms of his composite, which still puts him in the 93rd-94th percentile

But also of note.. Kuminga doesnt have the best first step on the Warriors either. Its the same player who has the best acceleration on the team too..

Which is whom? Poole? GPII? Looney?

Poole.. one of the better players in the league to from 0 to top speed too. Not elite though

GP2 is absolutely one of the best athletes in the league.. keep in mind both he and Kuminga dont have a ton of track record so their numbers fluctuate a lot more than most, but their composites are pretty close. But since GP2 isn't defined as elite, Kuminga can't be called that either.. just sayin

I could scroll down far enough to find Looney's numbers but I only have have about 5 hours before the game starts. I can only imagine how bad they are

[TB]

Current combination of athleticism, play style, and skills reminds me a bit of Gerald Wallace in his Bobcat days. Or even Shawn Marion, who's rookie numbers are almost identical per36 to what we are seeing from Kuminga.

Couple things to note on those comparisons though:

1) those guys top attribute might have been their motor. I've actually been surprised how hard Kuminga works on defense. Will be interesting to see if that keeps up when he's getting bigger minutes.

2) I think Kuminga shows a lot more potential with his offensive skills so his ceiling is probably as a good/great scorer and not just a complimentary scorer like Crash/Matrix.

3) also seems like Kuminga might be stronger or at least capable of getting stronger than either of them

The idea of a Wallace/Marion type that develops an offensive game? Well thats how you end up with a Leonard or Paul George or Jaylen Brown.... Kuminga ceiling is very high.

[Scoots1994]

And if you give a kid a $20 bill, they'll think you're super rich because its more money than they've ever seen.

Athleticism is measurable, but I've actually seen how a couple connected places measure it. But since its all arbitrary, this need for fans to label it elite... go for it. But elite is not a word thats thrown around lightly in analysis and aside from fans, the term elite had not been thrown around for Kuminga. And again, this is not to take anything away from Kuminga, but saying "elite" means perfect in their world. Someone like Anthony Edwards is a true elite athlete by all measures, and not coincidentally he checked off the hardest box to be elite in - agility/COD.

So again - functional vs. not. Like I asked before - between the 4 main pillars (strength, speed, agility, vertical) of non-height/length athleticism, which is the most important in today's NBA?

Kuminga's agility, or at least as tested, stopped him from being elite, because its weighted so heavily. People can conflate it with being "elite for that size" but that's more about his broadness/strength than length, which means less. Its just like Blake Griffin's "elite" athleticism (held up as a cautionary tale here, btw) because he could jump so high, had strength, and was straight-line quick. Good BBIQ too.. so why was he such a mediocre defender?

All this to say - don't set impossibly high bars just because he's unlike any prospect we typically get. Kuminga + near elite agility would have never made it to the 7th pick. Shoot the messenger if it helps, but its still the reality

And it has no bearing on Kuminga, who has the exact same monster upside as he has all along, and appears to have a strong chance at realizing a lot of it

So Usain Bolt doesn't have elite atheleticism by your measure, nor did Wayne Gretzky, or Jerry Rice or, in fact, most great athletes in history.

[FNQ]

And if you give a kid a $20 bill, they'll think you're super rich because its more money than they've ever seen.

Athleticism is measurable, but I've actually seen how a couple connected places measure it. But since its all arbitrary, this need for fans to label it elite... go for it. But elite is not a word thats thrown around lightly in analysis and aside from fans, the term elite had not been thrown around for Kuminga. And again, this is not to take anything away from Kuminga, but saying "elite" means perfect in their world. Someone like Anthony Edwards is a true elite athlete by all measures, and not coincidentally he checked off the hardest box to be elite in - agility/COD.

So again - functional vs. not. Like I asked before - between the 4 main pillars (strength, speed, agility, vertical) of non-height/length athleticism, which is the most important in today's NBA?

Kuminga's agility, or at least as tested, stopped him from being elite, because its weighted so heavily. People can conflate it with being "elite for that size" but that's more about his broadness/strength than length, which means less. Its just like Blake Griffin's "elite" athleticism (held up as a cautionary tale here, btw) because he could jump so high, had strength, and was straight-line quick. Good BBIQ too.. so why was he such a mediocre defender?

All this to say - don't set impossibly high bars just because he's unlike any prospect we typically get. Kuminga + near elite agility would have never made it to the 7th pick. Shoot the messenger if it helps, but its still the reality

And it has no bearing on Kuminga, who has the exact same monster upside as he has all along, and appears to have a strong chance at realizing a lot of it

So Usain Bolt doesn't have elite atheleticism by your measure, nor did Wayne Gretzky, or Jerry Rice or, in fact, most great athletes in history.

I'm not sure what you are even trying to say here, but there is a good chance that no, aside from Bolt, there were probably people who were more athletically gifted than Gretzky and Rice. And if you can't wrap your head around that, then I dont see a point in continuing. Being a gifted physically does not always translate to sports success, which is contingent on having skills as well.

[michaelm]

And if you give a kid a $20 bill, they'll think you're super rich because its more money than they've ever seen.

Athleticism is measurable, but I've actually seen how a couple connected places measure it. But since its all arbitrary, this need for fans to label it elite... go for it. But elite is not a word thats thrown around lightly in analysis and aside from fans, the term elite had not been thrown around for Kuminga. And again, this is not to take anything away from Kuminga, but saying "elite" means perfect in their world. Someone like Anthony Edwards is a true elite athlete by all measures, and not coincidentally he checked off the hardest box to be elite in - agility/COD.

So again - functional vs. not. Like I asked before - between the 4 main pillars (strength, speed, agility, vertical) of non-height/length athleticism, which is the most important in today's NBA?

Kuminga's agility, or at least as tested, stopped him from being elite, because its weighted so heavily. People can conflate it with being "elite for that size" but that's more about his broadness/strength than length, which means less. Its just like Blake Griffin's "elite" athleticism (held up as a cautionary tale here, btw) because he could jump so high, had strength, and was straight-line quick. Good BBIQ too.. so why was he such a mediocre defender?

All this to say - don't set impossibly high bars just because he's unlike any prospect we typically get. Kuminga + near elite agility would have never made it to the 7th pick. Shoot the messenger if it helps, but its still the reality

And it has no bearing on Kuminga, who has the exact same monster upside as he has all along, and appears to have a strong chance at realizing a lot of it

So Usain Bolt doesn't have elite atheleticism by your measure, nor did Wayne Gretzky, or Jerry Rice or, in fact, most great athletes in history.

I'm not sure what you are even trying to say here, but there is a good chance that no, aside from Bolt, there were probably people who were more athletically gifted than Gretzky and Rice. And if you can't wrap your head around that, then I dont see a point in continuing. Being a gifted physically does not always translate to sports success, which is contingent on having skills as well.

Interesting that they test for agility and rate it
so highly. I know you have a strong background in all this, and it sounds like you may have been involved in such assessments.

The raw athleticism/jumping out of the gym thing still seems to me to be something of a trap in the NBA though, affecting even player perceptions.I have always thought LeBron could make more accommodation with being beaten by a fellow physical freak like KD, who of course is also highly skilled, and very agile for his size/length, than with being beaten by a 6’3” PG who could barely dunk, and the players preferred Harden to Curry when Curry won his first MVP award.

Curry vs Griffin is a case in point as you say, a decade ago when I started following GSW, and the NBA in earnest, Griffin was the guy who was the one rated as a superstar. Curry of course does have athletic gifts, ungodly hand eye coordination and stamina (a great motor as LeBron says) for a start, and the having a great ‘handle’ thing would seem to involve agility to a significant degree, but not the size, strength, leaping ability and straight line speed of peak Griffin as you also say, However Curry has obviously been the one who proved to be the true superstar.

[The-Power]

Poole.. one of the better players in the league to from 0 to top speed too. Not elite though

OT (and not completely serious) but please let me know once you have the numbers for Jaden Ivey from next year's draft. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in that elusive elite category in that regard.

[The-Power]

1) those guys top attribute might have been their motor. I've actually been surprised how hard Kuminga works on defense. Will be interesting to see if that keeps up when he's getting bigger minutes.

Kuminga can turn the motor on but, unfortunately, it's not his natural state. You see him floating around a lot in the G-League. You just have to hope that there are enough ways to keep him motivated to leave it all on the floor.

[The411]

Kuminga’s built like a tank, has solid handles, good counter moves, solid vision, and near elite athleticism.. the one thing he’s missing is a solid jumper, and even that is showing promise.

I want him shooting any and every 3pt shot he can, especially in garbage time. And even when he gets legit minutes I want to see it.. we’re 20-4, and IMO the whole point of having the cartoonish W/L record is that we can get away with long-term benefits at the expense of short term ones, like developing Kuminga/Wiseman/Moody and extra load management days.

Greenest of green lights for Kuminga behind the arc until shooting a 3 is no longer a big deal for him. Then once it becomes more about muscle memory, work on shot selection. I’m never worried about guys with decent BBIQ becoming checkers, and Kuminga definitely doesn’t seem the type

I have to chuckle at the near-elite athleticism because I'm struggling to think of a player his size that is more athletic. Sure his movement isn't as fluid as it could be, but he reminds me of Lebron when Lebron was in his teens. Clearly Lebron had much better basketball instincts at that point, but that put back dunk on Monday was absurd in terms of athleticism. It looked way too easy and it looked like he was floating for a second.

Functional and non-functional athleticism are different. Everyone loves the head over the rim shots, but that's all aesthetic. Look forward to his inevitable dunk contest shows, but in terms of functionality, means way more if he has a quick 2nd jump and/or timing

LeBron had elite agility and still borderline has it 20 years later. Kuminga is and always has been more straight-line. Which is great, but the players with elite athleticism that translates are the ones that can change direction fastest with minimal speed dropoff. Just like with running backs and WRs, the NBA covets that type of thing more than anything.

Does that matter to Kuminga right now? Probably not, as he wont play many meaningful minutes, and when he does play them, teams wont sell out to stop him. But if he progresses to that point where he's a key player and offensive option, it will come into play, especially as it relates to avoid charges and adjusting to defenders in the middle

That fluidity you referenced is a big deal, probably the one most important aspect in the NBA. Agility. Top end speed, high-end vertical, most bench presses... which of those means more than the ability to change direction quickly?

He's certain shown flashes but he's a bit of a whirling dervish in the paint ... chaotic, physical and quick. He lacks mastery of his fundamental footwork and needs to learn the craft, but aside from Bron I cannot remember a player at 19 who can physically dominate grown men.

Of course there's a lot more to it, but he has the "it" thing that is common in superstars.

[FNQ]

Poole.. one of the better players in the league to from 0 to top speed too. Not elite though

OT (and not completely serious) but please let me know once you have the numbers for Jaden Ivey from next year's draft. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in that elusive elite category in that regard.

Barring the extraordinary luck of my company getting hired by someone with access to Second Spectrum again, my subscription ends in about 3 weeks, and current plan only covered current NBA players.. SS is willing to do individual subs, provided you pay a ton of money (obscene for an individual) and sign some IP protecting paperwork. Same stuff I signed this time, which is why I dont just give screenshots or very detailed rankings.

Basically in 3 weeks I'll lose all that fun stuff, which sucks. Truly hope other companies emerge and make this info more public