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Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft

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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#701 » by FNQ » Thu Dec 9, 2021 2:16 am

The411 wrote:
FNQ wrote:
The411 wrote:
I have to chuckle at the near-elite athleticism because I'm struggling to think of a player his size that is more athletic. Sure his movement isn't as fluid as it could be, but he reminds me of Lebron when Lebron was in his teens. Clearly Lebron had much better basketball instincts at that point, but that put back dunk on Monday was absurd in terms of athleticism. It looked way too easy and it looked like he was floating for a second.


Functional and non-functional athleticism are different. Everyone loves the head over the rim shots, but that's all aesthetic. Look forward to his inevitable dunk contest shows, but in terms of functionality, means way more if he has a quick 2nd jump and/or timing

LeBron had elite agility and still borderline has it 20 years later. Kuminga is and always has been more straight-line. Which is great, but the players with elite athleticism that translates are the ones that can change direction fastest with minimal speed dropoff. Just like with running backs and WRs, the NBA covets that type of thing more than anything.

Does that matter to Kuminga right now? Probably not, as he wont play many meaningful minutes, and when he does play them, teams wont sell out to stop him. But if he progresses to that point where he's a key player and offensive option, it will come into play, especially as it relates to avoid charges and adjusting to defenders in the middle

That fluidity you referenced is a big deal, probably the one most important aspect in the NBA. Agility. Top end speed, high-end vertical, most bench presses... which of those means more than the ability to change direction quickly?


He's certain shown flashes but he's a bit of a whirling dervish in the paint ... chaotic, physical and quick. He lacks mastery of his fundamental footwork and needs to learn the craft, but aside from Bron I cannot remember a player at 19 who can physically dominate grown men.

Of course there's a lot more to it, but he has the "it" thing that is common in superstars.


Absolutely, he definitely has the upside there. When they rank athleticism-based things, they typically keep a top-10 events as a way of evaluating the peak, and then top 50 to gain a more realistic number. Since Kuminga has such a small amount of time, he doesnt have a ton of events to work with, so its entirely possible that he jumps up into their version of elite, especially as it relates to COD/agility. From the eye test, he definitely looks like he *could* be there
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#703 » by Outside » Thu Dec 9, 2021 7:57 am

FNQ wrote:
The-Power wrote:
FNQ wrote:Poole.. one of the better players in the league to from 0 to top speed too. Not elite though :D

OT (and not completely serious) but please let me know once you have the numbers for Jaden Ivey from next year's draft. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in that elusive elite category in that regard.


Barring the extraordinary luck of my company getting hired by someone with access to Second Spectrum again, my subscription ends in about 3 weeks, and current plan only covered current NBA players.. SS is willing to do individual subs, provided you pay a ton of money (obscene for an individual) and sign some IP protecting paperwork. Same stuff I signed this time, which is why I dont just give screenshots or very detailed rankings.

Basically in 3 weeks I'll lose all that fun stuff, which sucks. Truly hope other companies emerge and make this info more public


Unfortunately, it seems to be going in the other direction where data is being siloed and monetized by selling subscriptions. Business models need to evolve, but for now, companies are increasingly requiring subscriptions for content, even content that used to be free. To have everything I have interest in, I'd have to pay for 25-50 individual subscriptions when you add up movies, TV/video, music, news, sports, and specialty website content. From a business perspective, it's what they're all doing to survive, but from a consumer perspective, it's beyond ridiculous and leads to sharing access info among family and friends or using pirated streaming, which leads to providers tightening access. Fifty years from now, there will be some sort of consolidated access where you can pay a single fee for everything, but for now, it just sucks.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#704 » by GSWFan1994 » Thu Dec 9, 2021 6:17 pm

Kuminga's stats in G-League.

20/6/3 + 1,8 steals + 0,4 blocks
4,6 TOs + 4,2 fouls
41% FG / 28% 3pt / 71% FT

5 games sample size.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#705 » by and1GS » Thu Dec 9, 2021 6:24 pm

GSWFan1994 wrote:Kuminga's stats in G-League.

20/6/3 + 1,8 steals + 0,4 blocks
4,6 TOs + 4,2 fouls
41% FG / 28% 3pt / 71% FT

5 games sample size.


What are we doing here? What point is there in sending Kuminga to dominate a glorified pick up game where he practices moves that won't work at the next level (some of those paint scoop layups will definitely get blocked at the NBA level). Get him onto the main roster. Get him bigger minutes against bad teams and don't bench him for a full week if he doesn't go for 8 and 6 in 5 minutes of action.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#706 » by FNQ » Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:06 am

ClutchUp wrote:


Man talk about a voice made for sign language :o
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#707 » by xdrta+ » Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:21 am

and1GS wrote:
GSWFan1994 wrote:Kuminga's stats in G-League.

20/6/3 + 1,8 steals + 0,4 blocks
4,6 TOs + 4,2 fouls
41% FG / 28% 3pt / 71% FT

5 games sample size.


What are we doing here? What point is there in sending Kuminga to dominate a glorified pick up game where he practices moves that won't work at the next level (some of those paint scoop layups will definitely get blocked at the NBA level). Get him onto the main roster. Get him bigger minutes against bad teams and don't bench him for a full week if he doesn't go for 8 and 6 in 5 minutes of action.


Kerr doesn't seem to understand this. "I'm thrilled that [Moody] and [Kuminga] are playing and getting good reps and good minutes in Santa Cruz," Kerr said. "That's exactly what they need right now..."
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#708 » by floppymoose » Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:56 am

FNQ wrote:
ClutchUp wrote:


Man talk about a voice made for sign language :o


I was about to say "Big ups to the middle school assistant principal who had to sub in for the play by play guy at the last minute".
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#709 » by NeoWarriors » Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:22 am

floppymoose wrote:
FNQ wrote:
ClutchUp wrote:


Man talk about a voice made for sign language :o


I was about to say "Big ups to the middle school assistant principal who had to sub in for the play by play guy at the last minute".
I think at one point he fused Kuminga with Jumanji and called him Kumamji.

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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#710 » by DonaldSanders » Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:20 am

Ya Kuminga has spent enough time in the G league, I want to see him on the NBA court more with instructions to take it straight to the cup.

He needs help figuring out what can be successful for him in a real NBA game, so far that seems to be driving to the hole & defense. I don't think he will learn that much more in the G league.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#711 » by GunnerWRX » Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:48 am

xdrta+ wrote:
and1GS wrote:
GSWFan1994 wrote:Kuminga's stats in G-League.

20/6/3 + 1,8 steals + 0,4 blocks
4,6 TOs + 4,2 fouls
41% FG / 28% 3pt / 71% FT

5 games sample size.


What are we doing here? What point is there in sending Kuminga to dominate a glorified pick up game where he practices moves that won't work at the next level (some of those paint scoop layups will definitely get blocked at the NBA level). Get him onto the main roster. Get him bigger minutes against bad teams and don't bench him for a full week if he doesn't go for 8 and 6 in 5 minutes of action.


Kerr doesn't seem to understand this. "I'm thrilled that [Moody] and [Kuminga] are playing and getting good reps and good minutes in Santa Cruz," Kerr said. "That's exactly what they need right now..."


It worked alright for Poole. I guess I would give the coaching staff the benefit of the doubt on this one.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#712 » by FNQ » Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:46 am

I dont mind him getting GLeague time, but I would love to see Kuminga get an opportunity to prove he belongs more.

The Pacers are rebuilding so that would be an ideal time to give Draymond a night off, and instead of giving the time to JTA, give 20+ to Kuminga. Just see where he's at. And unless he dominates, that gives him a gameplan in Santa Cruz of what to improve :dontknow: But he's been doing well, its time to legitimately reward that in some way instead of just 'lol rookies' at him

I'd say the same for Moody, but Moody's whole thing is just getting in rhythm with his shot and learning how to play with Steph and Draymond, so I think his time in SC is more about keeping him warmed up and ready for his inevitable opportunity as Damian Lee reverts back to a part-time player
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#713 » by Quazza » Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:29 am

FNQ wrote:
ClutchUp wrote:


Man talk about a voice made for sign language :o


Was going to say, my fkn god, one of , if not the , worst callers I've ever heard
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#714 » by FNQ » Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:32 pm

Quazza wrote:
FNQ wrote:
ClutchUp wrote:


Man talk about a voice made for sign language :o


Was going to say, my fkn god, one of , if not the , worst callers I've ever heard


I dont know why, but I feel like its a cutaway gag from Family Guy

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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#715 » by The-Power » Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:44 pm

and1GS wrote:
GSWFan1994 wrote:Kuminga's stats in G-League.

20/6/3 + 1,8 steals + 0,4 blocks
4,6 TOs + 4,2 fouls
41% FG / 28% 3pt / 71% FT

5 games sample size.


What are we doing here? What point is there in sending Kuminga to dominate a glorified pick up game where he practices moves that won't work at the next level (some of those paint scoop layups will definitely get blocked at the NBA level). Get him onto the main roster. Get him bigger minutes against bad teams and don't bench him for a full week if he doesn't go for 8 and 6 in 5 minutes of action.

A 19 year old getting a lot of playing time with a lot of on-ball duties against grown up professionals is a problem why exactly? As if that doesn't help him improve. Especially if we want to groom him into more of an on-ball player down the road, which he just can't do at the NBA level yet. This season he gets a mix of ‘play in your limited role’ at the highest level and ‘try some stuff out and lead the team’ at the next-highest level. He's hardly playing great basketball in the G-League either, so this is not a case of him having clearly outgrown the competition.

Also, I feel like team dynamics are too often ignored here. Everyone is raving about the culture the team has established, about having many different contributors on any given night, about players playing hard. Why do people think this was possible? And more importantly: how would you think it impacts the locker room if Kuminga just gets gifted playing time while there are players riding the bench who have been better and have been told to compete hard for minutes? More minutes for Kuminga means fewer minutes for JTA, Porter or Bjelica, or maybe eben GP2.

This year, the team prioritizes winning. This year, the team doesn't want to make the same mistakes they did with Wiseman and therefore came up with a development plan that includes some minutes with the main team, some games with the G-League team, and more scrimmages during the season along with an overhauled development staff. So far, I don't see any reason to change the planned approach a couple months into its execution. Let's wait for Kuminga to show that he has outgrown G-League competition and/or that he can be relied on as a nightly contributor – then he can become a fixed piece in the rotation. Thus far, neither has been the case.

Also, I always find the notion that players don't develop during G-League games bizarre considering that most players improve the most between seasons, when they work on all kinds of stuff – often alone, and to the extent they do scrimmage, the level and intensity is certainly not higher than during G-League games. You need NBA reps to figure what consistently works in the NBA, yes. But you absolutely don't need to play NBA minutes to become a better player and work on your game. Quite the opposite, you work on unpolished parts of your game relentlessly before you try it out in the NBA. So what if Kuminga's moves won't all work versus NBA competition? They also don't yet consistently work against G-League competition either. So what's the issue with him trying to figure out what works against the next-best competition and once he has that figured out a bit more, try it out in and subsequently adjust it to the NBA setting.

If he plays NBA minutes and can't try stuff out because we want to win, that doesn't help him develop go-to moves. And if he plays NBA minutes and does try stuff out, that's going to hurt our team and I also doubt anyone can present any evidence that failing harder – compared to the G-League – is going to make him a better player in the short or long run. Why would a player develop better when he's out of his depth and potentially loses confidence? I mean, we just had the case of Poole who failed in the NBA, went to the G-League to play as the lead guy, and then came back strong to the NBA, looking much better and becoming one of our main rotation guys. You'd think that this example alone should make Warriors fans much more open to the idea of having young players play some games in the G-League – as much as we all want to see our Rookies play in the NBA.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#716 » by xdrta+ » Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:01 pm

@ #715 above
I agree with all that, and it's not all about developing individual skills. Here's Steve Kerr on one reason why he wants the rookies in Santa Cruz.

I think the biggest thing is just getting reps and understanding what wins and what doesn’t. They are both, obviously, really talented guys or they wouldn’t have been picked in the lottery. What you want from young players is a recognition of winning plays and repeating those types of plays over and over again.

By that, I mean making the right defensive read, making the right rotation and then recognizing that if you do that over and over again as a team, then your team has a chance to win. That’s the hardest part for rookies to understand when they come into this league, especially for guys who didn’t play much in college


They don't really have a chance to do that "over and over" in a 5 or 10 minute stint with the varsity.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#717 » by clyde21 » Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:06 pm

Minga and Moses both need at least 10 mins per game, 20 mins against crap teams, don't care about a few extra wins that we might get by playing Lee or Chiozza or Poole 35 mins, these guys need to have serious minutes under them before the playoffs start and if not the RS against bad teams then when?

Kerr out here thinkin he's Pop...F outta here bro with your crappy lineups

and oh...Chiozza should be excommunicado'd
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#718 » by The-Power » Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:40 pm

We cannot count on them being playoff-ready as Rookie teenagers, that's just not realistic no matter how much you play them. We drafted them for the future, and any value they bring to the present is just a bonus. If we wanted to optimize our playoff chances, we'd have traded the picks.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#719 » by 510TWSS » Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:56 pm

be patient, i'm sure it'll come lmao. Kerr said they just need more experience and getting run in the g league lets them **** up without it affecting our record.

Like watching the last game, Kuminga lolly-gagged back on defense, the ball was whipped to the corner for a 3, and he was able to barely recover and tip it away. Had he been running at full speed, he steals it. Minor difference but added up through a whole game could paint a different picture.

We're barely 25% through the season, Kuminga and Mood will get their chances. chill
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#720 » by marthafokker » Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:06 pm

Moody recently looked hesitant on the court with the varsity team. So he needs GLeague bad. But I think Kuminga should stay up with the big club more, like against Portland's GLeague team on Wednesday.

I have no problem with Kuminga playing both GLeague and Dubbs home game on the same day, but not GLeague over the real thing.
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