2020 Draft Thread

[Mylie10]

Even if he's not quite as good defensively, he's already wayyyy better offensively.

And his defensive potential is still through the roof. I don't buy the lateral bs. Plus I've always trusted me projections over the draft sites. They are way wrong way to often. Way more than I am lol

Anyhow, it's ok for us to disagree with you, it's all good.

Another thing. On your trade down idea. That's fine if you could guarantee it. You just have no idea if another team would give you the extra first. It's just a projection on your part, just like our evaluations of what guys will and won't do.

[The-Power]

known by anyone, he's doesn't project as a defensive anchor at all in the NBA

I don't buy that. I remember a lot of people being excited about Wiseman's defensive upside especially as a rim protector.

i don't see him being a better defender in the NBA than say an Andre Drummond...and he's def in that Ayton archetype offensively in that he needs creators around him, but actually Ayton had even more of a mid range game than Wiseman has today.

Ayton doesn't care about defense very much and struggled to contest at high volume and with effectiveness. Wiseman is the opposite of that, and that's why they are different archetype. If the archetype is ‘needs creators around him’ then 95+% of bigs are the ‘Ayton archetype’ – I don't find that a very useful distinction.

In other words, Ayton is a bit more polished on offense but not much less of a rim protector and shot contester. Very different players, in my view. The similarities are that they are both primarily paint players who are athletic and huge. Besides that, not much – which is why I am higher on Wiseman than Ayton as Wiseman does not have his defensive question marks.

[clyde21]

known by anyone, he's doesn't project as a defensive anchor at all in the NBA

I don't buy that. I remember a lot of people being excited about Wiseman's defensive upside especially as a rim protector.

i don't see him being a better defender in the NBA than say an Andre Drummond...and he's def in that Ayton archetype offensively in that he needs creators around him, but actually Ayton had even more of a mid range game than Wiseman has today.

Ayton doesn't care about defense very much and struggled to contest at high volume and with effectiveness. Wiseman is the opposite of that, and that's why they are different archetype. If the archetype is ‘needs creators around him’ then 95+% of bigs are the ‘Ayton archetype’ – I don't find that a very useful distinction.

In other words, Ayton is a bit more polished on offense but not much less of a rim protector and shot contester. Very different players, in my view. The similarities are that they are both primarily paint players who are athletic and huge. Besides that, not much – which is why I am higher on Wiseman than Ayton as Wiseman does not have his defensive question marks.

he's in that archetype offensively in that he's really only a 1 level offensive player who needs creators for him to produce offensively, and while I think he'll be a + defensively, I don't think he'll be a game changer at all on that end

look at all the bigs drafted in the top5 since 2012, all of the successful ones were either 1) multi-level elite offensive players or 2) elite defensive players or a combination, i just don't see a elite offense or elite defense from Wiseman...i see elite rebounding an an offensive player like Drummond who's average or slightly above average on D.

[azwfan]

Knicks win tonight. 5 teams in the East with 4 wins each. The East really needs to pick its game up. Curry and Looney aren't gonna be out forever!

Edit: The bottom of the East needs to pick its game up. Washington only 1 more win than us. Get your ish together Bullets!

[Coxy]

Knicks win tonight. 5 teams in the East with 4 wins each. The East really needs to pick its game up. Curry and Looney aren't gonna be out forever!

Edit: The bottom of the East needs to pick its game up. Washington only 1 more win than us. Get your ish together Bullets!

Outside of Beal, that team is comlplete trash. We'll be battling them durung the lotto for sure.

[azwfan]

Knicks win tonight. 5 teams in the East with 4 wins each. The East really needs to pick its game up. Curry and Looney aren't gonna be out forever!

Edit: The bottom of the East needs to pick its game up. Washington only 1 more win than us. Get your ish together Bullets!

Outside of Beal, that team is comlplete trash. We'll be battling them durung the lotto for sure.

They're only 3 games out of a playoff spot. Maybe WCS can help them bridge the gap?

[Quazza]

Knicks win tonight. 5 teams in the East with 4 wins each. The East really needs to pick its game up. Curry and Looney aren't gonna be out forever!

Edit: The bottom of the East needs to pick its game up. Washington only 1 more win than us. Get your ish together Bullets!

Outside of Beal, that team is comlplete trash. We'll be battling them durung the lotto for sure.

Rui has been solid and I think better than people thought he'd be. And god I'd love Thomas Bryant on our team

Outside of that they're hard to watch right now (not as bad as us though )

[giberish]

How many 1 and done (or similar aged Euros) guys have made a clear impact for winning games the first year being drafted? Expecting anyone drafted to step in and be a big immediate on-court asset is a reach. Given the win-now needs of a Curry/Klay/Green core it might make sense to trade the pick for more win-now type of value.

[Mylie10]

Wiseman is a win now guy. You could plug Jim in immediately.

Doncic was that.

[azwfan]

How many 1 and done (or similar aged Euros) guys have made a clear impact for winning games the first year being drafted? Expecting anyone drafted to step in and be a big immediate on-court asset is a reach. Given the win-now needs of a Curry/Klay/Green core it might make sense to trade the pick for more win-now type of value.

Not sure what the answer to this is, but our situation is very unique. We already have the core of a championship caliber team. We don't need the guy we draft to be a core guy day 1. We just need him to be good enough to contribute day 1... with the upside to be a core guy in the future.

[giberish]

Wiseman is a win now guy. You could plug Jim in immediately.

Doncic was that.

Doncic was BY FAR, the most accomplished one and done rookie in NBA history. Wiseman is not.

Expecting Wiseman to have vastly better rookie impact then Ayton/Bagley seems like a major reach. Even a clear hit as a #1 pick like Towns didn't have a big +/- impact and wouldn't have helped a good team that much.

[Mylie10]

Wiseman is a win now guy. You could plug Jim in immediately.

Doncic was that.

Doncic was BY FAR, the most accomplished one and done rookie in NBA history. Wiseman is not.

Expecting Wiseman to have vastly better rookie impact then Ayton/Bagley seems like a major reach. Even a clear hit as a #1 pick like Towns didn't have a big +/- impact and wouldn't have helped a good team that much.

Ah, but you are forgetting one thing. Wiseman would he playing with Steph, Klay, and Draymond. Add Paschall to it as well. So Wiseman won't be starting for a dysmal Suns team, or a putrid TWolves team.

I think Wiseman will be better than Ayton, but that's totally arguable. KAT is probably better.

So I think Wiseman would he awesome with our group. But that's just me.

[Coxy]

Wiseman is a win now guy. You could plug Jim in immediately.

Doncic was that.

Doncic was BY FAR, the most accomplished one and done rookie in NBA history. Wiseman is not.

Expecting Wiseman to have vastly better rookie impact then Ayton/Bagley seems like a major reach. Even a clear hit as a #1 pick like Towns didn't have a big +/- impact and wouldn't have helped a good team that much.

Ah, but you are forgetting one thing. Wiseman would he playing with Steph, Klay, and Draymond. Add Paschall to it as well. So Wiseman won't be starting for a dysmal Suns team, or a putrid TWolves team.

I think Wiseman will be better than Ayton, but that's totally arguable. KAT is probably better.

So I think Wiseman would he awesome with our group. But that's just me.

Wiseman would be kickass in our lineup. Especially next to draybeast.

Anyone that can't see that is either being dishonest with themselves, or they are just betteroff watching under 16's girls volleyball.

[giberish]

Doncic was BY FAR, the most accomplished one and done rookie in NBA history. Wiseman is not.

Expecting Wiseman to have vastly better rookie impact then Ayton/Bagley seems like a major reach. Even a clear hit as a #1 pick like Towns didn't have a big +/- impact and wouldn't have helped a good team that much.

Ah, but you are forgetting one thing. Wiseman would he playing with Steph, Klay, and Draymond. Add Paschall to it as well. So Wiseman won't be starting for a dysmal Suns team, or a putrid TWolves team.

I think Wiseman will be better than Ayton, but that's totally arguable. KAT is probably better.

So I think Wiseman would he awesome with our group. But that's just me.

Wiseman would be kickass in our lineup. Especially next to draybeast.

Anyone that can't see that is either being dishonest with themselves, or they are just betteroff watching under 16's girls volleyball.

Young rookies just aren't good. Even the best ones are more interesting then good - generally with good box-score counting stats and highlight clips without helping their team win. The Kings were better last year with Bjelica at PF then Bagley. For next season a solid veteran role player is likely to be better then Wiseman. Then you're just hoping he can improve fast enough before Curry/Klay/Draymond decline.

Wiseman playing with Curry/Klay/Draymond would win more then Ayton with the Suns did, but that's not saying he'd be a better player.

[Mylie10]

Ah, but you are forgetting one thing. Wiseman would he playing with Steph, Klay, and Draymond. Add Paschall to it as well. So Wiseman won't be starting for a dysmal Suns team, or a putrid TWolves team.

I think Wiseman will be better than Ayton, but that's totally arguable. KAT is probably better.

So I think Wiseman would he awesome with our group. But that's just me.

Wiseman would be kickass in our lineup. Especially next to draybeast.

Anyone that can't see that is either being dishonest with themselves, or they are just betteroff watching under 16's girls volleyball.

Young rookies just aren't good. Even the best ones are more interesting then good - generally with good box-score counting stats and highlight clips without helping their team win. The Kings were better last year with Bjelica at PF then Bagley. For next season a solid veteran role player is likely to be better then Wiseman. Then you're just hoping he can improve fast enough before Curry/Klay/Draymond decline.

Wiseman playing with Curry/Klay/Draymond would win more then Ayton with the Suns did, but that's not saying he'd be a better player.

Your logic sucks big time. Because Wiseman plus Paschall means future after the core retires or declines. It extends the Warriors future of winning.

What Wiseman may lack in year one, will be honed and polished by year 3. But in the meantime you have size, defense, screen setting, and a far better offense than any center we've had in here recently.

[giberish]

Wiseman would be kickass in our lineup. Especially next to draybeast.

Anyone that can't see that is either being dishonest with themselves, or they are just betteroff watching under 16's girls volleyball.

Young rookies just aren't good. Even the best ones are more interesting then good - generally with good box-score counting stats and highlight clips without helping their team win. The Kings were better last year with Bjelica at PF then Bagley. For next season a solid veteran role player is likely to be better then Wiseman. Then you're just hoping he can improve fast enough before Curry/Klay/Draymond decline.

Wiseman playing with Curry/Klay/Draymond would win more then Ayton with the Suns did, but that's not saying he'd be a better player.

Your logic sucks big time. Because Wiseman plus Paschall means future after the core retires or declines. It extends the Warriors future of winning.

What Wiseman may lack in year one, will be honed and polished by year 3. But in the meantime you have size, defense, screen setting, and a far better offense than any center we've had in here recently.

Drafting Wiseman (or some other one and done prospect) with a #1 (or generally high lotto pick) could well be the best move for the Warriors long-term.

Just don't expect them to be good as a rookie. Young rookies aren't good. Even just quality starter for a good team is a massive reach. If your looking to build a title contender next season you need to plan on a limited role for any young rookies.

From watching a full third of Wiseman's college career - and a bunch of young bigs in the NBA - as a rookie I'd expect him to get a ton of rebounds, foul a lot, make some flashy defensive plays but also be out of position a bunch and either be a catch and dunk guy on offense (more likely for a good team) or take a bunch of mid-range and longer shots that don't go in enough to worry a defense (more likely for a bad team). He'll do more then a veteran role player, but that means more bad things as well as more good things.

[azwfan]

Young rookies just aren't good. Even the best ones are more interesting then good - generally with good box-score counting stats and highlight clips without helping their team win. The Kings were better last year with Bjelica at PF then Bagley. For next season a solid veteran role player is likely to be better then Wiseman. Then you're just hoping he can improve fast enough before Curry/Klay/Draymond decline.

Wiseman playing with Curry/Klay/Draymond would win more then Ayton with the Suns did, but that's not saying he'd be a better player.

Your logic sucks big time. Because Wiseman plus Paschall means future after the core retires or declines. It extends the Warriors future of winning.

What Wiseman may lack in year one, will be honed and polished by year 3. But in the meantime you have size, defense, screen setting, and a far better offense than any center we've had in here recently.

Drafting Wiseman (or some other one and done prospect) with a #1 (or generally high lotto pick) could well be the best move for the Warriors long-term.

Just don't expect them to be good as a rookie. Young rookies aren't good. Even just quality starter for a good team is a massive reach. If your looking to build a title contender next season you need to plan on a limited role for any young rookies.

From watching a full third of Wiseman's college career - and a bunch of young bigs in the NBA - as a rookie I'd expect him to get a ton of rebounds, foul a lot, make some flashy defensive plays but also be out of position a bunch and either be a catch and dunk guy on offense (more likely for a good team) or take a bunch of mid-range and longer shots that don't go in enough to worry a defense (more likely for a bad team). He'll do more then a veteran role player, but that means more bad things as well as more good things.

Sounds good to me, lets draft Wiseman. Smiley will be in year 2 and assuming his ankle is better he can dominate while we wait on Wiseman to develop into prime Hakeem Olajuwon.

[wco81]

Don't the mock drafts change a lot over the course of the NBA season?

By April, they're a lot different than the ones in November?

[wco81]

Let's think about the stud centers in the league. KAT is extremely talented, probably a good chance to make all NBA this year. But the Wolves will maybe win around 40 games as a ceiling?

Embid is a great talent on both ends, injury-prone but once the 76ers won around 55 games and then got beat in the second round. They had a great year last year but just got beat in game 7 in the second round to the eventual champion. He may yet win rings but he may not have a good enough #2 player.

Jokic led his team to one very good season, probably will lead them to a top 4 seed again. All-NBA and MVP candidate. Can they break through to go all the way? Maybe, but like Embid, he hasn't yet reached the conference finals yet, much less the Finals.

Gobert is perennial DPOY candidate, anchors one of the best defenses. But they've only gotten to the second round.

Anthony Davis really plays the 4, may have a deep playoffs run this year but previously, only led his teams to playoffs every other year, made the second round once.


So far, nobody in the 2020 draft class projects to be great like these players. Certainly none of them seem to have the ceiling of a cornerstone franchise player like Curry.


If we go back further, only Shaq and Duncan were the cornerstones of multiple NBA championship teams.

Unless Wiseman blows up over however many games he gets to play and if his team makes it to March Madness and he performs well there, he doesn't seem like an immediate big difference maker

[Phase 3]

Listened to Greg Papa today on the radio. He said that he’s heard the Warriors are not all that high on Wiseman. Just passing it along fwiw.