Training camp 2021

[Onus]

Obviously nobody is making the argument JTA is a better shooter than the best shooter in NBA history, but the reality is that players who shoot a good percentage will either be guarded or they will shoot more. Nobody is calling JTA a star or anything like it, but the fact that he is a decent offensive player and a decent defender while also being a serviceable shooter makes him a valuable bench player.

No one is arguing whether or not JTA is a valuable bench player. That should be a given.

The argument is whether or not he's a good shooter. You have 1 side that says his percentage from last year say he's a good shooter. You have another side saying his form has a lot of moving parts, and if he gets pressured while shooting his shots become more erratic, that when teams actually close out on him instead of not guarding him completely like he's draymond his percentages will drop. Essentially you shouldn't be relying on him being a 40% 3 point shooter. He's most likely a below average 3 point shooter if the avg 3pt percentage is 36.7%. There's nothing wrong with that, at least he's willing to put them up. But teams aren't game planning for him and running him off the line. They will live with him shooting 3s just like they would live with Iguodala shooting 3s, which makes it harder to play them together since it's 2 guys that you don't really need to guard at the 3 point line.

Let's put it this way if Juan really was a 3 point threat he wouldn't be taking the minimum.

From my view it was one side saying JTA can't shoot and won't be in the rotation. He'll be a offensive liability.

The other side said saying I don't really know if he is a stud shooter or not but he shot 40% on 100 (roughly) attempts last year. So you can't dismiss actual evidence of him shooting well in games last year. No guarantees he'll shoot well this year but 100 attempts isn't a joke.

Your view would be wrong since literally no one has said the bolded. He’s essentially draymond lite but has more athleticism. I don’t know if offensive liability is the right word or not but he has offensive limitations.

I guess if you go by your line of thinking he’s as good of a shooter as Otto porter. Is that really what you think? The percentages say so.

[FNQ]

So ... if JTA hits 40% from 3 this year will he then be close to a 40% shooter?

The problem is how it affects the rest of the team. If he's not a quality outside shooter, and he isn't, and you're pairing him with Iguodala, that means there are two wing players that the opposing defense can sag off of. So now that directly affects Poole and whoever the other guard is (Lee? Wiggins?) because it makes driving tougher for them. We then become a perimeter passing team with 1-3 credible outside threats, no back to the basket game, and minimal rebounding.

We get away with that in the starting lineup because we literally might have the best 2 shooters in NBA history. And when that number is knocked down to just 1 of the best shooters in NBA history with league average shooters flanking him, we saw the results: 20th ranked in ORtg, 12th in PPG ---> a team that just a year prior was a top 3 ORtg team for the past 5 consecutive years.

The Warriors w/o Wiseman had a Offensive Rating of 115.4
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/warriors-offense-rating-without-wiseman

The Warriors w/Wiseman had a Offensive Rating of 108.5
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/warriors-offense-rating-with-wiseman

115.4 would have been top 10 in the league. The ratings and record got trashed because the Warriors weren't focused on winning in the beginning.

BBREF has it lower (114), but still exactly #10
The difference is still substantial from the pre-KD Warriors and of course KD Warriors, as it takes 2 elite shooters to make up for Draymond and a C offensively. But if the plan is to ask Poole, Damian Lee, and Nemanja Bjelica to overcome that, then we're probably going to take it on the chin when the subs play together, unless Kerr changes his rotation strategy.

The preseason has bore this out as well. Having 2 non shooters stagnates our offense. And I'd imagine that effect is stronger when one of the shooters isnt even a C.. usually when teams take this tack its because they have a ton of size or a lockdown defense, which isn't the case here either

[Chupchup]

No one is arguing whether or not JTA is a valuable bench player. That should be a given.

The argument is whether or not he's a good shooter. You have 1 side that says his percentage from last year say he's a good shooter. You have another side saying his form has a lot of moving parts, and if he gets pressured while shooting his shots become more erratic, that when teams actually close out on him instead of not guarding him completely like he's draymond his percentages will drop. Essentially you shouldn't be relying on him being a 40% 3 point shooter. He's most likely a below average 3 point shooter if the avg 3pt percentage is 36.7%. There's nothing wrong with that, at least he's willing to put them up. But teams aren't game planning for him and running him off the line. They will live with him shooting 3s just like they would live with Iguodala shooting 3s, which makes it harder to play them together since it's 2 guys that you don't really need to guard at the 3 point line.

Let's put it this way if Juan really was a 3 point threat he wouldn't be taking the minimum.

From my view it was one side saying JTA can't shoot and won't be in the rotation. He'll be a offensive liability.

The other side said saying I don't really know if he is a stud shooter or not but he shot 40% on 100 (roughly) attempts last year. So you can't dismiss actual evidence of him shooting well in games last year. No guarantees he'll shoot well this year but 100 attempts isn't a joke.

Your view would be wrong since literally no one has said the bolded. He’s essentially draymond lite but has more athleticism. I don’t know if offensive liability is the right word or not but he has offensive limitations.

I guess if you go by your line of thinking he’s as good of a shooter as Otto porter. Is that really what you think? The percentages say so.

You guys literally question whether JTA will be in the rotation with Iggy back in the beginning of the thread.

Otto is a bigger player and very injury prone player. The percentages show he is a career 40% 3 point shooter with a much higher volume and longer track record. With that being said, I would play Otto as much as I can (ie 20 mins or so ... ie injury risk).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01.html

[Onus]

From my view it was one side saying JTA can't shoot and won't be in the rotation. He'll be a offensive liability.

The other side said saying I don't really know if he is a stud shooter or not but he shot 40% on 100 (roughly) attempts last year. So you can't dismiss actual evidence of him shooting well in games last year. No guarantees he'll shoot well this year but 100 attempts isn't a joke.

Your view would be wrong since literally no one has said the bolded. He’s essentially draymond lite but has more athleticism. I don’t know if offensive liability is the right word or not but he has offensive limitations.

I guess if you go by your line of thinking he’s as good of a shooter as Otto porter. Is that really what you think? The percentages say so.

You guys literally question whether JTA will be in the rotation with Iggy back in the beginning of the thread.

Otto is a bigger player and very injury prone player. The percentages show he is a career 40% 3 point shooter with a much higher volume and longer track record. With that being said, I would play Otto as much as I can (ie 20 mins or so ... ie injury risk).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01.html

I said I’m fine with jta backing up iguodala or Otto at the 3 or 4. Dala is old as dirt and probably won’t play much until the end of the season if he even has anything left while Otto is oft injured. Jta is going to get plenty of playing time.

Wait so you do think jta is as good of a shooter as porter? Or do percentages not matter now?

[FNQ]

You guys literally question whether JTA will be in the rotation with Iggy back in the beginning of the thread.

Otto is a bigger player and very injury prone player. The percentages show he is a career 40% 3 point shooter with a much higher volume and longer track record. With that being said, I would play Otto as much as I can (ie 20 mins or so ... ie injury risk).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01.html

*Will be* and *should be* are two entirely different conversations.

But there's a reason why we staggered Iguodala to play Barnes despite Andre being worlds better.. there's a reason why our style worked and other teams that loaded up on jumpshooters didn't. We had elite shooters, elite non-shooters. And at times, Iguodala could score in bunches, like he did in the playoffs. But those days are way in the rearview. And since it seems unlikely that Iguodala is going to have to earn his role here, and even though JTA had the advantage of 2 years of familiarity with a lot of these backups, Iguodala's getting minutes. And if those minutes mix with JTA's minutes, its going to be predictably bad long-term. Based on what we've seen from Iguodala so far this year and frankly last year as well, I dont think he's going to help more than JTA could. But what do you think the odds are that Kerr doesnt give Iguodala a chance once games start counting?

I dont see why this is an argued point.. our offense dropped off from top 3 to #10 (generously giving Wiseman's theoretical replacement a net neutral ranking) and we have the best shooter, maybe best offensive weapon, in NBA history playing for us in one of his statistically best seasons.

Our offensive style hinges on that because we dont have any good to great rebounders on the roster, and while we have length, we don't have size. We win on the perimeter, everything flows off of that.

[Chupchup]

Your view would be wrong since literally no one has said the bolded. He’s essentially draymond lite but has more athleticism. I don’t know if offensive liability is the right word or not but he has offensive limitations.

I guess if you go by your line of thinking he’s as good of a shooter as Otto porter. Is that really what you think? The percentages say so.

You guys literally question whether JTA will be in the rotation with Iggy back in the beginning of the thread.

Otto is a bigger player and very injury prone player. The percentages show he is a career 40% 3 point shooter with a much higher volume and longer track record. With that being said, I would play Otto as much as I can (ie 20 mins or so ... ie injury risk).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01.html

I said I’m fine with jta backing up iguodala or Otto at the 3 or 4. Dala is old as dirt and probably won’t play much until the end of the season if he even has anything left while Otto is oft injured. Jta is going to get plenty of playing time.

Wait so you do think jta is as good of a shooter as porter? Or do percentages not matter now?

Otto shoots a career 40% 3 pt percentage with high volume and across multiple seasons. Does that not answer your question ?

How is that even comparable if JTA has one season of 40% while Otto has a career of 40% with much higher volume.

How does that mean percentages not matter now ?

As I said in my original reply, JTA shot 40% last year on around 100 shots. This doesn't mean he's Klay/Steph but it does potentially mean he won't be a offensive liability on the court.

[Onus]

You guys literally question whether JTA will be in the rotation with Iggy back in the beginning of the thread.

Otto is a bigger player and very injury prone player. The percentages show he is a career 40% 3 point shooter with a much higher volume and longer track record. With that being said, I would play Otto as much as I can (ie 20 mins or so ... ie injury risk).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01.html

I said I’m fine with jta backing up iguodala or Otto at the 3 or 4. Dala is old as dirt and probably won’t play much until the end of the season if he even has anything left while Otto is oft injured. Jta is going to get plenty of playing time.

Wait so you do think jta is as good of a shooter as porter? Or do percentages not matter now?

Otto shoots a career 40% 3 pt percentage with high volume and across multiple seasons. Does that not answer your question ?

How is that even comparable if JTA has one season of 40% while Otto has a career of 40% with much higher volume.

How does that mean percentages not matter now ?

As I said in my original reply, JTA shot 40% last year on around 100 shots. This doesn't mean he's Klay/Steph but it does potentially mean he won't be a offensive liability on the court.

Great now we can start back where this all started. I wish you were the coach of other teams so someone would guard jta like he isn’t an offensive liability. If teams actually guarded jta like he was porter he’d make 10m+ a year. Hell he would probably start for us if he shot like porter.

[Scoots1994]

What's the most valuable role players in today's game? A wing defender who can switch up or down positions and can shoot 3s. JTA is a decent enough defender and even provides good help defense. If anyone thought he was close to a 40% shooter on 3s he'd be making 10+M a year.

Mulder can't play defense to save his life so he's not really in the same category. Don't even want to get into his shooting woes as a supposed shooter.

So ... if JTA hits 40% from 3 this year will he then be close to a 40% shooter?

The problem is how it affects the rest of the team. If he's not a quality outside shooter, and he isn't, and you're pairing him with Iguodala, that means there are two wing players that the opposing defense can sag off of. So now that directly affects Poole and whoever the other guard is (Lee? Wiggins?) because it makes driving tougher for them. We then become a perimeter passing team with 1-3 credible outside threats, no back to the basket game, and minimal rebounding.

We get away with that in the starting lineup because we literally might have the best 2 shooters in NBA history. And when that number is knocked down to just 1 of the best shooters in NBA history with league average shooters flanking him, we saw the results: 20th ranked in ORtg, 12th in PPG ---> a team that just a year prior was a top 3 ORtg team for the past 5 consecutive years.

Sure, and numbers don't tell the whole story, but if a player averages 40% on 3s for multiple years then we can draw the conclustion that they can hit 40% of their 3s for multiple years. What happens around them doesn't change the fact that they can hit 40% of their 3s for multiple years

[Chupchup]

I said I’m fine with jta backing up iguodala or Otto at the 3 or 4. Dala is old as dirt and probably won’t play much until the end of the season if he even has anything left while Otto is oft injured. Jta is going to get plenty of playing time.

Wait so you do think jta is as good of a shooter as porter? Or do percentages not matter now?

Otto shoots a career 40% 3 pt percentage with high volume and across multiple seasons. Does that not answer your question ?

How is that even comparable if JTA has one season of 40% while Otto has a career of 40% with much higher volume.

How does that mean percentages not matter now ?

As I said in my original reply, JTA shot 40% last year on around 100 shots. This doesn't mean he's Klay/Steph but it does potentially mean he won't be a offensive liability on the court.

Great now we can start back where this all started. I wish you were the coach of other teams so someone would guard jta like he isn’t an offensive liability. If teams actually guarded jta like he was porter he’d make 10m+ a year. Hell he would probably start for us if he shot like porter.

Yeah .. your projecting too much. Lol.

Anyway Cheers. We'll see what happen this year.

[FNQ]

So ... if JTA hits 40% from 3 this year will he then be close to a 40% shooter?

The problem is how it affects the rest of the team. If he's not a quality outside shooter, and he isn't, and you're pairing him with Iguodala, that means there are two wing players that the opposing defense can sag off of. So now that directly affects Poole and whoever the other guard is (Lee? Wiggins?) because it makes driving tougher for them. We then become a perimeter passing team with 1-3 credible outside threats, no back to the basket game, and minimal rebounding.

We get away with that in the starting lineup because we literally might have the best 2 shooters in NBA history. And when that number is knocked down to just 1 of the best shooters in NBA history with league average shooters flanking him, we saw the results: 20th ranked in ORtg, 12th in PPG ---> a team that just a year prior was a top 3 ORtg team for the past 5 consecutive years.

Sure, and numbers don't tell the whole story, but if a player averages 40% on 3s for multiple years then we can draw the conclustion that they can hit 40% of their 3s for multiple years. What happens around them doesn't change the fact that they can hit 40% of their 3s for multiple years

Ultimately what matters is if defenses treat him like that player. If he’s hitting 40% on low volume and opposing teams are ok with trade off, beating up our sub squad.. not good

If he was a 28% 3pt shooter on whatever volume, but teams respected his jumper and our offense ran like it typically does, I’d guess that sub squad does better

This argument was applied to TJ Warren forever.. until he finally did start having good range. It’s possible but JTA is still way below average as a shooter. Lots of work to do still

[Onus]

Otto shoots a career 40% 3 pt percentage with high volume and across multiple seasons. Does that not answer your question ?

How is that even comparable if JTA has one season of 40% while Otto has a career of 40% with much higher volume.

How does that mean percentages not matter now ?

As I said in my original reply, JTA shot 40% last year on around 100 shots. This doesn't mean he's Klay/Steph but it does potentially mean he won't be a offensive liability on the court.

Great now we can start back where this all started. I wish you were the coach of other teams so someone would guard jta like he isn’t an offensive liability. If teams actually guarded jta like he was porter he’d make 10m+ a year. Hell he would probably start for us if he shot like porter.

Yeah .. your projecting too much. Lol.

Anyway Cheers. We'll see what happen this year.

If you don’t see the difference between porter and jta shooting the ball then you can’t be helped.

Hopefully jta is still a 40% shooter this year. Here’s to a great year

[The411]

Ahh yes nuance is lost the 2021 version.

JTA shoots at good % from 3 because he takes a low amount of threes, he's usually close to the line, and he's getting kickout looks that are partial open or wide open. However, if you asked him to do Curry volume and Curry difficulty he'd be shooting in the low 20s or high teens.

Conversely, if Curry only took the shots that JTA takes from 3 in terms of volume and difficulty he'd be shooting 65% from 3.

The point is that JTA is smart enough to know that he's not on the team to chuck threes with no conscience. He's there to hustle, play D, score some easy buckets, hit an occasional 3, and be a spark plug.

The Warriors have three point shooters coming out of their ears.

[Chupchup]

Great now we can start back where this all started. I wish you were the coach of other teams so someone would guard jta like he isn’t an offensive liability. If teams actually guarded jta like he was porter he’d make 10m+ a year. Hell he would probably start for us if he shot like porter.

Yeah .. your projecting too much. Lol.

Anyway Cheers. We'll see what happen this year.

If you don’t see the difference between porter and jta shooting the ball then you can’t be helped.

Hopefully jta is still a 40% shooter this year. Here’s to a great year

LOL no one brought up Porter but you. Your the only person. It's like your arguing against yourself .. so funny.

[EvanZ]

You guys argue over weird things.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Onus]

Yeah .. your projecting too much. Lol.

Anyway Cheers. We'll see what happen this year.

If you don’t see the difference between porter and jta shooting the ball then you can’t be helped.

Hopefully jta is still a 40% shooter this year. Here’s to a great year

LOL no one brought up Porter but you. Your the only person. It's like your arguing against yourself .. so funny.

Enjoy the season

[azwfan]

If you don’t see the difference between porter and jta shooting the ball then you can’t be helped.

Hopefully jta is still a 40% shooter this year. Here’s to a great year

LOL no one brought up Porter but you. Your the only person. It's like your arguing against yourself .. so funny.

Enjoy the season

End of game... last possession... (lets pretend they're both out there)

Curry drives the lane hits a wide open Wiggins/JTA for the game winning shot. Which one ya got?
I got Wiggins but not by a whole hell of a lot (especially after watching him drop the ball multiple times and clank a bunch of 3's in this preseason game)

[FNQ]

LOL no one brought up Porter but you. Your the only person. It's like your arguing against yourself .. so funny.

Enjoy the season

End of game... last possession... (lets pretend they're both out there)

Curry drives the lane hits a wide open Wiggins/JTA for the game winning shot. Which one ya got?
I got Wiggins but not by a whole hell of a lot (especially after watching him drop the ball multiple times and clank a bunch of 3's in this preseason game)

Historically its easily Wiggins, but thats all pre-Warriors. Was a surprisingly good clutch shooter, and he hit 42% of 3s when wide open last year. But more importantly to me, JTA is an emotional guy, bit of a prisoner of the moment. He can rush shots, make some wild decisions at times. Just from that standpoint, you want the cold emotionless guy.

But I'm really not happy with the 2 options presented to win a game there... ick

[Onus]

LOL no one brought up Porter but you. Your the only person. It's like your arguing against yourself .. so funny.

Enjoy the season

End of game... last possession... (lets pretend they're both out there)

Curry drives the lane hits a wide open Wiggins/JTA for the game winning shot. Which one ya got?
I got Wiggins but not by a whole hell of a lot (especially after watching him drop the ball multiple times and clank a bunch of 3's in this preseason game)

Probably Wiggins, since Wiggins should be playing down the stretch of games

[sonnyhill]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[TB]

Looks like an 11 man rotation for now:

Steph / Iggy
Poole / Lee / JTA
Wiggins / Moody / JTA
Dray / Otto / JTA
Loon / Bjelica

Then you have Kuminga, Wiseman, Klay back at some point.

A rare 14 man roster where I like everyone and am excited for anyone to get minutes.

Then both of our 2-way guys (assuming Mulder gets the 2nd one) are players with solid NBA experience that I feel okay with getting real minutes as needed.

Let's just hope for a somewhat healthy season and we may have a lot of fun watching this team.