Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[statsman]

What do people think we will get back in a trade for Kuminga if we sign him to $20M/year (which is where this is headed).

The interesting thought is, the more GS pays Kuminga, the more they can get in return for him in a trade this year, it benefits both parties to pay Kuminga. If Kuminga is wanting to bet on himself, he'll just sign a short-term contract to make sure he gets paid in case of an injury.

I am not buying into that argument. It's an iffy one at that, with lots of risks. If Kuminga went down with injury, just like last season, then the Warriors would be screwed. Also, if the intention is to trade him in the middle of the season, then that's going to lead to a fragile relationship between Kuminga, Kerr, and the other players.

Either sign him with the intention of keeping him, or move him this offseason. I am not a fan of the middle solution.

[AirP.]

What do people think we will get back in a trade for Kuminga if we sign him to $20M/year (which is where this is headed).

The interesting thought is, the more GS pays Kuminga, the more they can get in return for him in a trade this year, it benefits both parties to pay Kuminga. If Kuminga is wanting to bet on himself, he'll just sign a short-term contract to make sure he gets paid in case of an injury.

I am not buying into that argument. It's an iffy one at that, with lots of risks. If Kuminga went down with injury, just like last season, then the Warriors would be screwed. Also, if the intention is to trade him in the middle of the season, then that's going to lead to a fragile relationship between Kuminga, Kerr, and the other players.

Either sign him with the intention of keeping him, or move him this offseason. I am not a fan of the middle solution.

Pay him within reason, they have to have somewhat of an idea what other teams would be willing to pay him with the current S&T talks with other teams to know how high they could go and have some interest with him. GS can't overpay and then just be stuck with a player they don't want to pay (although maybe they would be in 2 seasons). Atlanta overpaid J.Collins thinking they could move him as an asset, that didn't happen but they finally got rid of him to Utah and now he's been moved to LAC as an expiring contract/possibly resign him at a number they want.

If this run with Curry is just 2 more years, I'm not really sure it matters what Kuminga is getting paid that first year post-Curry.

[Onus]

The interesting thought is, the more GS pays Kuminga, the more they can get in return for him in a trade this year, it benefits both parties to pay Kuminga. If Kuminga is wanting to bet on himself, he'll just sign a short-term contract to make sure he gets paid in case of an injury.

I am not buying into that argument. It's an iffy one at that, with lots of risks. If Kuminga went down with injury, just like last season, then the Warriors would be screwed. Also, if the intention is to trade him in the middle of the season, then that's going to lead to a fragile relationship between Kuminga, Kerr, and the other players.

Either sign him with the intention of keeping him, or move him this offseason. I am not a fan of the middle solution.

Pay him within reason, they have to have somewhat of an idea what other teams would be willing to pay him with the current S&T talks with other teams to know how high they could go and have some interest with him. GS can't overpay and then just be stuck with a player they don't want to pay (although maybe they would be in 2 seasons). Atlanta overpaid J.Collins thinking they could move him as an asset, that didn't happen but they finally got rid of him to Utah and now he's been moved to LAC as an expiring contract/possibly resign him at a number they want.

If this run with Curry is just 2 more years, I'm not really sure it matters what Kuminga is getting paid that first year post-Curry.

That's why this should be a 2+1 with a player option. He can opt out and get more the first year post Curry/JB/Dray or if he hasn't had a good year he can keep his money.

[Onus]

What do people think we will get back in a trade for Kuminga if we sign him to $20M/year (which is where this is headed).

We could use a POA defender, backup pg, big wing, or rim protector. So just about anyone.

[AirP.]

I am not buying into that argument. It's an iffy one at that, with lots of risks. If Kuminga went down with injury, just like last season, then the Warriors would be screwed. Also, if the intention is to trade him in the middle of the season, then that's going to lead to a fragile relationship between Kuminga, Kerr, and the other players.

Either sign him with the intention of keeping him, or move him this offseason. I am not a fan of the middle solution.

Pay him within reason, they have to have somewhat of an idea what other teams would be willing to pay him with the current S&T talks with other teams to know how high they could go and have some interest with him. GS can't overpay and then just be stuck with a player they don't want to pay (although maybe they would be in 2 seasons). Atlanta overpaid J.Collins thinking they could move him as an asset, that didn't happen but they finally got rid of him to Utah and now he's been moved to LAC as an expiring contract/possibly resign him at a number they want.

If this run with Curry is just 2 more years, I'm not really sure it matters what Kuminga is getting paid that first year post-Curry.

That's why this should be a 2+1 with a player option. He can opt out and get more the first year post Curry/JB/Dray or if he hasn't had a good year he can keep his money.

Let's say... Milwaukee doesn't do well this season and consider moving Giannis, having Kuminga at a decent sized contract make it much easier to get to Giannis' contract of 54 million so you don't have to throw in so many other players and their salaries along with the draft picks (a lot of picks/swaps) you'd have to move too.

I think barring injury Kuminga can put up 20 ppg as a regular starter, I don't know how much you will win since he doesn't really distribute the ball (tough to build a team around that and win) but someone will be intrigued enough to trade for an under 27 year old 20 ppg guy in the future.

GS has 1/2 a season to figure out what they need, Post will get his opportunities to be a stretch 5 they can somewhat depend on in the playoffs, Podz and Moody will get time to show that they're consistent and the hand injuries were the late sesason slumps. GS has up to the deadline before they have to really go for it with this current roster.

[Onus]

Pay him within reason, they have to have somewhat of an idea what other teams would be willing to pay him with the current S&T talks with other teams to know how high they could go and have some interest with him. GS can't overpay and then just be stuck with a player they don't want to pay (although maybe they would be in 2 seasons). Atlanta overpaid J.Collins thinking they could move him as an asset, that didn't happen but they finally got rid of him to Utah and now he's been moved to LAC as an expiring contract/possibly resign him at a number they want.

If this run with Curry is just 2 more years, I'm not really sure it matters what Kuminga is getting paid that first year post-Curry.

That's why this should be a 2+1 with a player option. He can opt out and get more the first year post Curry/JB/Dray or if he hasn't had a good year he can keep his money.

Let's say... Milwaukee doesn't do well this season and consider moving Giannis, having Kuminga at a decent sized contract make it much easier to get to Giannis' contract of 54 million so you don't have to throw in so many other players and their salaries along with the draft picks (a lot of picks/swaps) you'd have to move too.

I think barring injury Kuminga can put up 20 ppg as a regular starter, I don't know how much you will win since he doesn't really distribute the ball (tough to build a team around that and win) but someone will be intrigued enough to trade for an under 27 year old 20 ppg guy in the future.

GS has 1/2 a season to figure out what they need, Post will get his opportunities to be a stretch 5 they can somewhat depend on in the playoffs, Podz and Moody will get time to show that they're consistent and the hand injuries were the late sesason slumps. GS has up to the deadline before they have to really go for it with this current roster.

If Giannis wants to come here for some reason one of JB or Dray have to go out regardless and it'll most likely be JB. Right now JK (23M) as a S&T is worth Devin Carter and 2 2nds (may be less now since to get to that number Sac would need to off load contracts and would need to send out assets to do so), that's probably a 1st rd pick. We have 4 1st (26,28,30 top 1-20,32), 4 swaps (27,29,31,33?) and 1 2nd that is 31-50. Trying to plan around Giannis being available seems foolish since the only way he comes here is if he's like I only want to go to GSW and at that point it's just whatever we have available not the best offer. Plus we really only have this upcoming year to be a real contender so waiting for Giannis just wastes our final year.

[vvoland]

That's why this should be a 2+1 with a player option. He can opt out and get more the first year post Curry/JB/Dray or if he hasn't had a good year he can keep his money.

Let's say... Milwaukee doesn't do well this season and consider moving Giannis, having Kuminga at a decent sized contract make it much easier to get to Giannis' contract of 54 million so you don't have to throw in so many other players and their salaries along with the draft picks (a lot of picks/swaps) you'd have to move too.

I think barring injury Kuminga can put up 20 ppg as a regular starter, I don't know how much you will win since he doesn't really distribute the ball (tough to build a team around that and win) but someone will be intrigued enough to trade for an under 27 year old 20 ppg guy in the future.

GS has 1/2 a season to figure out what they need, Post will get his opportunities to be a stretch 5 they can somewhat depend on in the playoffs, Podz and Moody will get time to show that they're consistent and the hand injuries were the late sesason slumps. GS has up to the deadline before they have to really go for it with this current roster.

If Giannis wants to come here for some reason one of JB or Dray have to go out regardless and it'll most likely be JB. Right now JK (23M) as a S&T is worth Devin Carter and 2 2nds (may be less now since to get to that number Sac would need to off load contracts and would need to send out assets to do so), that's probably a 1st rd pick. We have 4 1st (26,28,30 top 1-20,32), 4 swaps (27,29,31,33?) and 1 2nd that is 31-50. Trying to plan around Giannis being available seems foolish since the only way he comes here is if he's like I only want to go to GSW and at that point it's just whatever we have available not the best offer. Plus we really only have this upcoming year to be a real contender so waiting for Giannis just wastes our final year.

I think you're undervaluing our future picks, especially 28 and later. I'm not sure there are a lot of better assets than our later picks, at least, not assets that will be traded. Sure, the Uta first next season is a better asset but, that's not going anywhere. Of the teams that may be willing to go all-in on a star, we're very well positioned with our future picks. I didn't realize it at first, but Den, by giving up just 1 unprotected first in '32, not only acquired Cam Johnson, but also dumped the 50m/yr of MPJ. How many of those middling Orlando picks that Memphis got would BKN have accepted instead of that '32 Denver pick? I'm guessing, at least, 3.

Our picks are highly valuable. We also have Podz as a cheap young player that has admirers around the league and moody, just starting a good value contract. Between those two, buddy's very team friendly deal, and JK on 20M/yr and playing reasonably well next season, we can get to 40+ million without touching dray or jimmy. That would put us squarely in the conversation for any star that might want out (giannis, JB, etc.), or a young player on a max that the team may be willing to move (barnes, lauri, simons, etc.).

Then there's the recently traded expirings that we could target: collins, KP, powell. I'd love to revisit the Myles Turner topic in Feb and, if Mil is struggling, I'd see what it would take to get him here.

Optionality, as the kids say, is the operative word.

[Onus]

Let's say... Milwaukee doesn't do well this season and consider moving Giannis, having Kuminga at a decent sized contract make it much easier to get to Giannis' contract of 54 million so you don't have to throw in so many other players and their salaries along with the draft picks (a lot of picks/swaps) you'd have to move too.

I think barring injury Kuminga can put up 20 ppg as a regular starter, I don't know how much you will win since he doesn't really distribute the ball (tough to build a team around that and win) but someone will be intrigued enough to trade for an under 27 year old 20 ppg guy in the future.

GS has 1/2 a season to figure out what they need, Post will get his opportunities to be a stretch 5 they can somewhat depend on in the playoffs, Podz and Moody will get time to show that they're consistent and the hand injuries were the late sesason slumps. GS has up to the deadline before they have to really go for it with this current roster.

If Giannis wants to come here for some reason one of JB or Dray have to go out regardless and it'll most likely be JB. Right now JK (23M) as a S&T is worth Devin Carter and 2 2nds (may be less now since to get to that number Sac would need to off load contracts and would need to send out assets to do so), that's probably a 1st rd pick. We have 4 1st (26,28,30 top 1-20,32), 4 swaps (27,29,31,33?) and 1 2nd that is 31-50. Trying to plan around Giannis being available seems foolish since the only way he comes here is if he's like I only want to go to GSW and at that point it's just whatever we have available not the best offer. Plus we really only have this upcoming year to be a real contender so waiting for Giannis just wastes our final year.

I think you're undervaluing our future picks, especially 28 and later. I'm not sure there are a lot of better assets than our later picks, at least, not assets that will be traded. Sure, the Uta first next season is a better asset but, that's not going anywhere. Of the teams that may be willing to go all-in on a star, we're very well positioned with our future picks. I didn't realize it at first, but Den, by giving up just 1 unprotected first in '32, not only acquired Cam Johnson, but also dumped the 50m/yr of MPJ. How many of those middling Orlando picks that Memphis got would BKN have accepted instead of that '32 Denver pick? I'm guessing, at least, 3.

Our picks are highly valuable. We also have Podz as a cheap young player that has admirers around the league and moody, just starting a good value contract. Between those two, buddy's very team friendly deal, and JK on 20M/yr and playing reasonably well next season, we can get to 40+ million without touching dray or jimmy. That would put us squarely in the conversation for any star that might want out (giannis, JB, etc.), or a young player on a max that the team may be willing to move (barnes, lauri, simons, etc.).

Then there's the recently traded expirings that we could target: collins, KP, powell. I'd love to revisit the Myles Turner topic in Feb and, if Mil is struggling, I'd see what it would take to get him here.

Optionality, as the kids say, is the operative word.

You're reading into something that wasn't said. Nowhere do I say how valuable our picks are.

If Giannis says he only wants to play for GSW why would we give them every single asset that we have? Plus a Jimmy, Dray, Giannis trio has redundancy and it makes sense to ship one of Jimmy/Dray out just to maintain balance of the roster.

[cpower]

if we cant find players that can close games lets just SnT for a salary match, thats it.

[vvoland]

If Giannis wants to come here for some reason one of JB or Dray have to go out regardless and it'll most likely be JB. Right now JK (23M) as a S&T is worth Devin Carter and 2 2nds (may be less now since to get to that number Sac would need to off load contracts and would need to send out assets to do so), that's probably a 1st rd pick. We have 4 1st (26,28,30 top 1-20,32), 4 swaps (27,29,31,33?) and 1 2nd that is 31-50. Trying to plan around Giannis being available seems foolish since the only way he comes here is if he's like I only want to go to GSW and at that point it's just whatever we have available not the best offer. Plus we really only have this upcoming year to be a real contender so waiting for Giannis just wastes our final year.

I think you're undervaluing our future picks, especially 28 and later. I'm not sure there are a lot of better assets than our later picks, at least, not assets that will be traded. Sure, the Uta first next season is a better asset but, that's not going anywhere. Of the teams that may be willing to go all-in on a star, we're very well positioned with our future picks. I didn't realize it at first, but Den, by giving up just 1 unprotected first in '32, not only acquired Cam Johnson, but also dumped the 50m/yr of MPJ. How many of those middling Orlando picks that Memphis got would BKN have accepted instead of that '32 Denver pick? I'm guessing, at least, 3.

Our picks are highly valuable. We also have Podz as a cheap young player that has admirers around the league and moody, just starting a good value contract. Between those two, buddy's very team friendly deal, and JK on 20M/yr and playing reasonably well next season, we can get to 40+ million without touching dray or jimmy. That would put us squarely in the conversation for any star that might want out (giannis, JB, etc.), or a young player on a max that the team may be willing to move (barnes, lauri, simons, etc.).

Then there's the recently traded expirings that we could target: collins, KP, powell. I'd love to revisit the Myles Turner topic in Feb and, if Mil is struggling, I'd see what it would take to get him here.

Optionality, as the kids say, is the operative word.

You're reading into something that wasn't said. Nowhere do I say how valuable our picks are.

If Giannis says he only wants to play for GSW why would we give them every single asset that we have? Plus a Jimmy, Dray, Giannis trio has redundancy and it makes sense to ship one of Jimmy/Dray out just to maintain balance of the roster.

I inferred it from the "if giannis wants to come here from some reason." if that's not what you meant, I get it. My point was, if we actually want to pursue giannis, or anyone of that ilk, we have the trade package to compete with anyone out there. Even if Hou is ok trading amen thompson and future picks, we can compete with that package (and I don't think they're trading amen). Giannis doesn't have to force a trade to the dubs for us to be able to get him, just have us on his short list.

Buddy, JK (20M), Moody (12M) and Podz would get us to ~45M. We can find another 7M from a vet min + TJD and Gui. That's 52M of salary without one bad contract, 3 young players on team control, and one of the league's best shooters. Add the 28/30/32 picks and a swap or two and who's beating that package? Sure, SAS and Hou maybe have better young players but I think we have the better draft assets. I don't think SAS or Hou can get to 52M without including some problematic contracts, which we can avoid.

Leaves us with a rather short roster, especially if its' a midseason trade, sure. I'm just saying Giannis doesn't have to force his way here and we can compete on the merits with the best trade packages out there. We also wouldn't have to touch JB, Dray, or Steph to do it, from a salary perspective.

[statsman]

This stuff belongs in the trade thread: "Which team wants our bad players for their good players?" Sheesh!

[vvoland]

This stuff belongs in the trade thread: "Which team wants our bad players for their good players?" Sheesh!

For most of this board, S&T for JK, literally means, "which team wants our bad player for their good players?"

Would you rather get back 52M via Jalen Green (in year 1 of his 3 yr extension w/ a PO) and Dillon brooks for 20M for two seasons or:
JK (declining 3/60 with a PO would be the 'worst case', i think)
Moody (1st year of a 3 year value deal)
Buddy (9, with team friendly non-guarantees next year, i believe)
Podz (7M total for the next two seasons and full bird rights)
TJD (2), Gui(2), vet min (3) as expiring/young salary ballast

I understand I'm the only one that thinks JK belongs in the NBA and not China but, I think it's a no brainer vs brooks and green. Especially if I'm a team getting out of the superstar business and looking to rebuild.

[thunderdunk]

This stuff belongs in the trade thread: "Which team wants our bad players for their good players?" Sheesh!

Agreed. One thing that we've learned this past week is the JK has basically NO market for his services, outside (maybe) the MLE, which teams know the Dubs will match. In this situation, JK has NO leverage, and honestly, neither do the Dubs.

Best to find a S&T deal now, for ANY position of need, or alternatively, sign some type of short term compromise contract and trade him in December or later, if there's a better deal to be had then. The upside is that, maybe his game has actually progressed, and at that point he's on a short term deal that will benefit all sides going forward, whether the Dubs trade him or not. On the other hand, if his game has regressed in any way, or he gets hurt, etc., then it's still a short term contract. IMO, the QO is not the best solution for anybody.

[Onus]

I think you're undervaluing our future picks, especially 28 and later. I'm not sure there are a lot of better assets than our later picks, at least, not assets that will be traded. Sure, the Uta first next season is a better asset but, that's not going anywhere. Of the teams that may be willing to go all-in on a star, we're very well positioned with our future picks. I didn't realize it at first, but Den, by giving up just 1 unprotected first in '32, not only acquired Cam Johnson, but also dumped the 50m/yr of MPJ. How many of those middling Orlando picks that Memphis got would BKN have accepted instead of that '32 Denver pick? I'm guessing, at least, 3.

Our picks are highly valuable. We also have Podz as a cheap young player that has admirers around the league and moody, just starting a good value contract. Between those two, buddy's very team friendly deal, and JK on 20M/yr and playing reasonably well next season, we can get to 40+ million without touching dray or jimmy. That would put us squarely in the conversation for any star that might want out (giannis, JB, etc.), or a young player on a max that the team may be willing to move (barnes, lauri, simons, etc.).

Then there's the recently traded expirings that we could target: collins, KP, powell. I'd love to revisit the Myles Turner topic in Feb and, if Mil is struggling, I'd see what it would take to get him here.

Optionality, as the kids say, is the operative word.

You're reading into something that wasn't said. Nowhere do I say how valuable our picks are.

If Giannis says he only wants to play for GSW why would we give them every single asset that we have? Plus a Jimmy, Dray, Giannis trio has redundancy and it makes sense to ship one of Jimmy/Dray out just to maintain balance of the roster.

I inferred it from the "if giannis wants to come here from some reason." if that's not what you meant, I get it. My point was, if we actually want to pursue giannis, or anyone of that ilk, we have the trade package to compete with anyone out there. Even if Hou is ok trading amen thompson and future picks, we can compete with that package (and I don't think they're trading amen). Giannis doesn't have to force a trade to the dubs for us to be able to get him, just have us on his short list.

Buddy, JK (20M), Moody (12M) and Podz would get us to ~45M. We can find another 7M from a vet min + TJD and Gui. That's 52M of salary without one bad contract, 3 young players on team control, and one of the league's best shooters. Add the 28/30/32 picks and a swap or two and who's beating that package? Sure, SAS and Hou maybe have better young players but I think we have the better draft assets. I don't think SAS or Hou can get to 52M without including some problematic contracts, which we can avoid.

Leaves us with a rather short roster, especially if its' a midseason trade, sure. I'm just saying Giannis doesn't have to force his way here and we can compete on the merits with the best trade packages out there. We also wouldn't have to touch JB, Dray, or Steph to do it, from a salary perspective.

So you want to have a team of Curry/Richard/JB/Dray/Giannis with Gui/Post and a bunch of vet mins brought off the street in the middle of the year?

Rather than Curry/Buddy/Moody/Dray/Giannis with JK/Podz/Gui/Horford/Post or Curry/Podz/Moody/JB/Giannis with Horford/Gui/Post on the bench?

JB/Dray/Giannis all want to play the 4 but none of them can shoot. Why trade all of our depth when depth is needed and you can satisfy the salary matching with a single contract or 3 vs 6+. Then the bucks have to cut players so this doesn't even make sense for them to do.

Also how valuable is the 28 pick if Giannis is on the team? Maybe the 30/32 pick becomes valuable because Giannis probably asks out then when he's 35 and 37.

[EvanZ]

This stuff belongs in the trade thread: "Which team wants our bad players for their good players?" Sheesh!

For most of this board, S&T for JK, literally means, "which team wants our bad player for their good players?"

Would you rather get back 52M via Jalen Green (in year 1 of his 3 yr extension w/ a PO) and Dillon brooks for 20M for two seasons or:
JK (declining 3/60 with a PO would be the 'worst case', i think)
Moody (1st year of a 3 year value deal)
Buddy (9, with team friendly non-guarantees next year, i believe)
Podz (7M total for the next two seasons and full bird rights)
TJD (2), Gui(2), vet min (3) as expiring/young salary ballast

I understand I'm the only one that thinks JK belongs in the NBA and not China but, I think it's a no brainer vs brooks and green. Especially if I'm a team getting out of the superstar business and looking to rebuild.

Nobody wants to pay JK AND give us anything good. It's as simple as that. If it wasn't the case, he'd already be gone. So what do *you* think is the reason he is still here?

[EvanZ]

What do people think we will get back in a trade for Kuminga if we sign him to $20M/year (which is where this is headed).

We could use a POA defender, backup pg, big wing, or rim protector. So just about anyone.

Can you name a specific player? It's easy to be hypothetical but let's talk about *real* trades.

[Twinkie defense]

What do people think we will get back in a trade for Kuminga if we sign him to $20M/year (which is where this is headed).

IDK but there's gonna be a lot more usable players at around that amount, and also his salary can be aggregated. More options.

[Senchu]

I have switched to Pay Kuminga camp and keep him till trade deadline. Let Kerr cry, coaches be droppin like flies now

[Twinkie defense]

What do people think we will get back in a trade for Kuminga if we sign him to $20M/year (which is where this is headed).

The interesting thought is, the more GS pays Kuminga, the more they can get in return for him in a trade this year, it benefits both parties to pay Kuminga. If Kuminga is wanting to bet on himself, he'll just sign a short-term contract to make sure he gets paid in case of an injury.

There is a point that his contract becomes a negative asset though.

[Onus]

What do people think we will get back in a trade for Kuminga if we sign him to $20M/year (which is where this is headed).

We could use a POA defender, backup pg, big wing, or rim protector. So just about anyone.

Can you name a specific player? It's easy to be hypothetical but let's talk about *real* trades.

Anyone that I would want I would probably have to add a 1st or multiple 1sts to do so. But really I'd rather just get the trade over with now and do Moody + JK + TJD + 2 1sts for Ellis/Carter/Cardwell and Herb Jones. Moody and a 1st for Herb Jones and JK + TJD + a 1st for Carter, Ellis and Cardwell.

Sign Horford, Melton, Knox

Curry/Podz
Ellis/Melton/Carter
JB/Buddy/Knox
Dray/Herb/Gui
Horford/Post/Cardwell

Whatever salary filler Sac needs to add to fit JK.