WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

[EvanZ]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Warriors fans? Since when did Warriors fans have front office decision making powers?

Seems to me your agenda should be pointed at the front office, Steve Kerr, and Lacob.

They are making the decisions. We have no power as fans to make any type of roster decision, or rotation decision, or playing style decision. Nothing.

So stick a cork in it. Lol

You really don’t see it do you.

[ahmetmekin]

AD's rookie year: +2.5 bpm, +0.14 rpm
Wiseman as of today: -4.3 bpm, -1.5 rpm

Plus minus on a sample as small as 23 games is idiotic. You need a full year sample to even have a legit convo about those types of stats.

But if you notice I didn’t make a statement either way. I just posted per 36 numbers. No comment about either.

Typical

The production component can be compared using PER, 21.7 for AD's first year to Wiseman's 14.8.
For the +/- this is the only sample we have to this point.
Wiseman should perform much much better in the second half of the season to match AD's numbers. I don't see it.

We have timeline issue here. I don't expect Wiseman to be a top 40-50 player in the next 3-4 years. It is also completely unclear how he complements Curry and Dray in terms of play style.

If he does not improve faster his trade value will plummet. This is the risk of keeping him. Using him in a trade we can acquire a player which helps our core to contend. Keeping him= high risk low reward for a team with 30+ versions of Curry+Dray+Klay.

[SpreeS]

For example Jokic

At age 17 started play in Serbian league
At age 18 started play in Adriatic league
At age 19 played in Adriatic league
At age 20 started in NBA

Now Wiseman

17y at High School
18y at College 3games
19y NBA

Wiseman needs min two years to catch rookie Jokic on experience playing with real men’s. He is struggling with boxing out opponents and its normal, bc he didn’t do it in high school for objective reasons.

[SpreeS]

Read on Twitter

Who cares. Its all about future potential and fit to our squad. With Klay/Curry/Green/Wiggins we need rim protection and pressure to opponents rim, also we get spacing from big too. With Klay back next year, Kerr could use combination of Klay/Green and Curry/Wiggins where playmaking problem would be solved and we dont need Ball scoring. We need dominant big.

[ILOVEIT]

Yeah....I don't get the missed on Melo thing at all. It would totally make sense if we didn't already have one of the best point guards of all time.

[Onus]

Wiseman is a huge project who you won't see dividends from until most likely year 3 at the earliest. Then you have to be realistic about what his ceiling is. What kind of defensive player will he be? Will he only allow you to play drop defense? What type of offense do you have to run if you run offense through him. I think if he had better vision they could run post offense through him so that they can run split action off of him. Can he be a pick and roll player that is able to make decisions off of the short roll like draymond? What can he rely on consistently that he can go to? It should be his size. He needs to try to put people through the rim or get as close to the rim as possible

It’s not gonna take three years for him to learn the offense and defense. And once he has that down he’ll help on defense in a couple of areas even if he isn’t the Bogut we will hope he can be. But how many Boguta have ever played? But understanding the rotations is the hardest thing he’s dealing with right now. Shouldn’t take him three years to figure it out lol

Most bigs take 4 years to develop. I’d be happy if he was a neutral player next year and then on year 3 hopeful he actually has a positive impact. Year 4 is where we know what he will actually be.

[cpower]

Its not only Wiseman problem, that Green cant score, Oubre couldnt hit anything in the first 20 games, Wiggins cant create for others and is too passive. This starting lineup didnt work for a lot of reasons

but inserting Looney into the starting lineup solved all the issues? they are + 18 per 100 while with wiseman they are -16 per 100. And if you look closely, pretty much all the bad lineup has wiseman there..
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2021/lineups/

What issues did Looney solve as a starter?

Wiseman as starter

W avg/bad teams CHI/DET/SAC/TOR good teams POR/LAC/LAL/SAN
L avg/bad teams IND/DEN/NY good teams BRK/MIL/POR/LAC/UTA

Looney as starter

W avg/bad teams MIN/MIN/DET/IND/NY/CHA good teams NONE
L avg/bad teams BOS good teams LAL/PHO

NY is the best team what we won with Looney as starter. Lee and Mulder also are net positive and Oubre net negative, but this doesnt mean much. Looney has way weaker schedule and Ourbe is hitting 3P on 41% rate, when Wiseman had Ourbe with 20% 3P shooting and oponents like BRK/MIL/POR/LAC/LAL/UTA/DEN/SAN/IND. Also season start was bad b/c this team was totaly new.

Curry's offensive rating jumps from 104.6 to 117.1 when Looney is on the floor. Similarly, Wiggins' jumps from 98.4 to 125.5. Looney doesn't move the needle that much on his own, he just allows the Warriors to run their best offence.
in a nutshell, with Looney on the floor Curry needs to score more and make better decisions for our offense.

[clyde21]

lol @ people comparing Wiseman to AD

Use some context

what context? you guys are the ones using per36 on a small game sample size comping Wiseman to AD...I wonder what AD would've looked like with the Warriors his FS year with all those open lanes and cuts getting spoon fed from Steph and Dray...how is that for context?

AD projected as a DPOY very early, and he had ball skills that were wayyyy ahead of what Wiseman is at because the guy was a PG in HS...there is a reason he was seen as one of the better prospects since LeBron.

you can make the case for Wiseman without throwing out these absurd comps.

[clyde21]

i hate to agree with Evan but he's right on this Warriors fans trying to fit Wiseman into the Warriors is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, it's pretty obvious to anyone that is just not playing fan boy for Wiseman

doesn't mean Wiseman can't be a nice player moving forward, but he should never be a high usage big for our offense, and if he's not a high usage big I have no idea why we even drafted him #2

[SpreeS]

but inserting Looney into the starting lineup solved all the issues? they are + 18 per 100 while with wiseman they are -16 per 100. And if you look closely, pretty much all the bad lineup has wiseman there..
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2021/lineups/

What issues did Looney solve as a starter?

Wiseman as starter

W avg/bad teams CHI/DET/SAC/TOR good teams POR/LAC/LAL/SAN
L avg/bad teams IND/DEN/NY good teams BRK/MIL/POR/LAC/UTA

Looney as starter

W avg/bad teams MIN/MIN/DET/IND/NY/CHA good teams NONE
L avg/bad teams BOS good teams LAL/PHO

NY is the best team what we won with Looney as starter. Lee and Mulder also are net positive and Oubre net negative, but this doesnt mean much. Looney has way weaker schedule and Ourbe is hitting 3P on 41% rate, when Wiseman had Ourbe with 20% 3P shooting and oponents like BRK/MIL/POR/LAC/LAL/UTA/DEN/SAN/IND. Also season start was bad b/c this team was totaly new.

Curry's offensive rating jumps from 104.6 to 117.1 when Looney is on the floor. Similarly, Wiggins' jumps from 98.4 to 125.5. Looney doesn't move the needle that much on his own, he just allows the Warriors to run their best offence.
in a nutshell, with Looney on the floor Curry needs to score more and make better decisions for our offense.

Ok, Curry/Green with Looney has better offense and Its clear as day, b/c Looney knows our system. No need argue here. But man why you attack Wiseman in every post? First you started at Wiggins, next one was Ourbe and now Wiseman?

[EvanZ]

i hate to agree with Evan but he's right on this Warriors fans trying to fit Wiseman into the Warriors is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, it's pretty obvious to anyone that is just not playing fan boy for Wiseman

doesn't mean Wiseman can't be a nice player moving forward, but he should never be a high usage big for our offense, and if he's not a high usage big I have no idea why we even drafted him #2

Hey look at us.

[EvanZ]

Read on Twitter

Who cares. Its all about future potential and fit to our squad. With Klay/Curry/Green/Wiggins we need rim protection and pressure to opponents rim, also we get spacing from big too. With Klay back next year, Kerr could use combination of Klay/Green and Curry/Wiggins where playmaking problem would be solved and we dont need Ball scoring. We need dominant big.

You sound like a Warriors fan who has been sleeping in a cave since 2003. When during this entire Warriors title run did we *need* a dominant big?

Answer: Never

[Mylie10]

AD's rookie year: +2.5 bpm, +0.14 rpm
Wiseman as of today: -4.3 bpm, -1.5 rpm

Plus minus on a sample as small as 23 games is idiotic. You need a full year sample to even have a legit convo about those types of stats.

But if you notice I didn’t make a statement either way. I just posted per 36 numbers. No comment about either.

Typical

The production component can be compared using PER, 21.7 for AD's first year to Wiseman's 14.8.
For the +/- this is the only sample we have to this point.
Wiseman should perform much much better in the second half of the season to match AD's numbers. I don't see it.

We have timeline issue here. I don't expect Wiseman to be a top 40-50 player in the next 3-4 years. It is also completely unclear how he complements Curry and Dray in terms of play style.

If he does not improve faster his trade value will plummet. This is the risk of keeping him. Using him in a trade we can acquire a player which helps our core to contend. Keeping him= high risk low reward for a team with 30+ versions of Curry+Dray+Klay.

So first of all. I don’t think Wiseman is AD. To be clear.

And it seems like your trying to add context but you aren’t adding in the fact that New Orelans had to play Davis as a focal point. They had nothing else really other than Holiday. The situation is completely different.

And I don’t think the Warriors are trying to deal him and trade value at this moment means jack ess.

And I am confident in thinking that after a rookie season, a summer league, a full training camp.....that he will have a much better understanding of rotations and responsibilities that THE COACHING STAFF is giving him. Don’t you think they know what they are asking him and what they want him to do? I do.

By next season he will be blocking a ton of shots and hella rebounding the ball. He’s going to be the athlete we already know he is. And he’s going to continue to refine and add to his offense. He can pass and that just hasn’t been something they are currently asking him to do.

I think he helps us big time next season when it truly matters.

And if you don’t like it, take it up with the Warriors who are the ones making the decisions. Not people who root for the team.

[Mylie10]

Wiseman is a huge project who you won't see dividends from until most likely year 3 at the earliest. Then you have to be realistic about what his ceiling is. What kind of defensive player will he be? Will he only allow you to play drop defense? What type of offense do you have to run if you run offense through him. I think if he had better vision they could run post offense through him so that they can run split action off of him. Can he be a pick and roll player that is able to make decisions off of the short roll like draymond? What can he rely on consistently that he can go to? It should be his size. He needs to try to put people through the rim or get as close to the rim as possible

It’s not gonna take three years for him to learn the offense and defense. And once he has that down he’ll help on defense in a couple of areas even if he isn’t the Bogut we will hope he can be. But how many Boguta have ever played? But understanding the rotations is the hardest thing he’s dealing with right now. Shouldn’t take him three years to figure it out lol

Most bigs take 4 years to develop. I’d be happy if he was a neutral player next year and then on year 3 hopeful he actually has a positive impact. Year 4 is where we know what he will actually be.

Totally fair and measured post! Props to Onus

[Mylie10]

lol @ people comparing Wiseman to AD

Use some context

what context? you guys are the ones using per36 on a small game sample size comping Wiseman to AD...I wonder what AD would've looked like with the Warriors his FS year with all those open lanes and cuts getting spoon fed from Steph and Dray...how is that for context?

AD projected as a DPOY very early, and he had ball skills that were wayyyy ahead of what Wiseman is at because the guy was a PG in HS...there is a reason he was seen as one of the better prospects since LeBron.

you can make the case for Wiseman without throwing out these absurd comps.

I didn’t make any proclamations by putting the numbers out. And I’ve never stated Wiseman is Ad or anything close. I posted numbers to show the rate Wiseman is putting up based on the minutes. That’s it.

You’re the one losing your mind lol

It’s more of putting them up for guys who say dumb stuff like:

Wiseman CANT rebound!

Klay Thompson CANT put the ball on the floor and should never do it!

Etc

[Mylie10]

i hate to agree with Evan but he's right on this Warriors fans trying to fit Wiseman into the Warriors is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, it's pretty obvious to anyone that is just not playing fan boy for Wiseman

doesn't mean Wiseman can't be a nice player moving forward, but he should never be a high usage big for our offense, and if he's not a high usage big I have no idea why we even drafted him #2

Are you two just being obtuse for no reason?

We are commenting on the players THE FRONT OFFICE SELECTED!

If you guys have beef take it up with the front office Kerr and joe Lacob. We just root or hate who we got. We have no power to make moves.

And Clyde, I love you because you have been solid on your feelings for Myers. No shade on you because you are consistent and often add context.

[Mylie10]

Read on Twitter

Who cares. Its all about future potential and fit to our squad. With Klay/Curry/Green/Wiggins we need rim protection and pressure to opponents rim, also we get spacing from big too. With Klay back next year, Kerr could use combination of Klay/Green and Curry/Wiggins where playmaking problem would be solved and we dont need Ball scoring. We need dominant big.

You sound like a Warriors fan who has been sleeping in a cave since 2003. When during this entire Warriors title run did we *need* a dominant big?

Answer: Never

Then tell us Mr Brilliant.....Why did the WARIORS select him then?

[EvanZ]

Then tell us Mr Brilliant.....Why did the WARIORS select him then?

Because they are not much more thoughtful about the Draft than you guys. And Joe Lacob finally got the opportunity to take "his big".

[Mylie10]

Then tell us Mr Brilliant.....Why did the WARIORS select him then?

Because they are not much more thoughtful about the Draft than you guys. And Joe Lacob finally got the opportunity to take "his big".

Thanks for answering I actually do appreciate it. So go yell at them now. And post your snarky Twitter shots a them.

And don't forget boss.....You were super high on Bismack Biyombo lol

[EvanZ]

Then tell us Mr Brilliant.....Why did the WARIORS select him then?

Because they are not much more thoughtful about the Draft than you guys. And Joe Lacob finally got the opportunity to take "his big".

Thanks for answering I actually do appreciate it. So go yell at them now. And post your snarky Twitter shots a them.

And don't forget boss.....You were super high on Bismack Biyombo lol

I mean yeah, how long ago was that? I learned my lessons, that's life. It's when you don't learn from your mistakes, you are doomed to repeat them. So like I was not into Bamba. That's how that works.