ImageImageImageImageImage

Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back)

Moderators: floppymoose, Sleepy51, Chris Porter's Hair

Commodor
Rookie
Posts: 1,202
And1: 92
Joined: Jul 24, 2008
     

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1381 » by Commodor » Wed May 20, 2020 10:56 pm

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:Does anyone here follow the Trades board? I hadn't looked in a while, and when I recently did, like half the trades are some variant of:
Warriors give: Wiggins, 2020 first round pick
Warriors get: a bunch of random garbage

Why for the Warriors: they get out of Wiggins contract and get "depth"

Am I alone in thinking this makes no sense at all? It amounts to tapping out and saying, "We aren't going to win, so who cares if we get worse, at least Lacob will save some money." It puts us in no better position to build a contender, and arguably harms those chances greatly by giving away a high 1st. And some of the variants also have us giving away the Minnesota pick for next year.


Yeah, the main takeaway I see is that there will be a very healthy trade market for the picks.

These trades are all just fans trying to get their team a great pick without giving up any real substance.

Myers will have some fun this summer, but I think any trades will be centered around the TPE+1st.
thinkingwarriors
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,483
And1: 3,529
Joined: May 15, 2006
Location: On the road...
     

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1382 » by thinkingwarriors » Wed May 20, 2020 11:09 pm

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:Does anyone here follow the Trades board? I hadn't looked in a while, and when I recently did, like half the trades are some variant of:
Warriors give: Wiggins, 2020 first round pick
Warriors get: a bunch of random garbage

Why for the Warriors: they get out of Wiggins contract and get "depth"

Am I alone in thinking this makes no sense at all? It amounts to tapping out and saying, "We aren't going to win, so who cares if we get worse, at least Lacob will save some money." It puts us in no better position to build a contender, and arguably harms those chances greatly by giving away a high 1st. And some of the variants also have us giving away the Minnesota pick for next year.


The basis of all the suggested trades is that Wiggins must be sold low. Of course what's being ignored is that Wiggins was already sold low, to us. So then why should we turn around and sell him low again? It's like if I buy a stock in a company after a dip in the price after a poor sales forecast. I'm going to hold onto that stock for a while hoping the company can turn the ship around. I'm not buying low to immediately resell low, I'm buying low in the hopes of being able to one day sell high.

The truth is that what Myers did trading D'lo for Wiggins and a valuable first is a win provided Wiggins fits our needs better than the Wolves needs. People on the trade board don't get that. In their mind Wiggins is bad value on every team and our trade for him was a lateral move at best, probably many think we lost the trade. In their minds, we messed up and sold D'lo low and so we need to cut our losses by selling Wiggins low and at the very least turn low quality into high quantity and pay someone in draft picks for their willingness to accommodate us.
Bob Meyers, June 7, 2018: "“It’s not in my job description to please NBA fans. It’s to win, end of story. I don’t need to be entertained, I just need to win. That’s all it is. That’s all I was hired to do. Win.”
wco81
General Manager
Posts: 9,854
And1: 3,087
Joined: Jul 04, 2013
     

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1383 » by wco81 » Wed May 20, 2020 11:29 pm

I don't know is there really that much demand for Wiggins?

He was widely seen as a big bust, with a very unappealing contract.

Trying to look at teams which need more scoring from SF: Miami, Washington, Portland, Memphis, Houston, OKC, Utah (with Bogdanovic out for season).

I don't see any of these teams making a big play for a $30 million a year Wiggins.
User avatar
Coxy
RealGM
Posts: 39,265
And1: 9,191
Joined: Jun 17, 2008
Location: Brought to you by the Splash Fam
   

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1384 » by Coxy » Wed May 20, 2020 11:54 pm

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:Does anyone here follow the Trades board? I hadn't looked in a while, and when I recently did, like half the trades are some variant of:
Warriors give: Wiggins, 2020 first round pick
Warriors get: a bunch of random garbage

Why for the Warriors: they get out of Wiggins contract and get "depth"

Am I alone in thinking this makes no sense at all? It amounts to tapping out and saying, "We aren't going to win, so who cares if we get worse, at least Lacob will save some money." It puts us in no better position to build a contender, and arguably harms those chances greatly by giving away a high 1st. And some of the variants also have us giving away the Minnesota pick for next year.


This has been me for the last 2 months on the T&T board about this exact type of trade.

Image

"But that's the value of Wiggins and the 1st". Man if I read that reasoning 1 more time.......lol. :banghead:
Chris Porter's Hair wrote:but in a startling development the General board didn't agree.
User avatar
Coxy
RealGM
Posts: 39,265
And1: 9,191
Joined: Jun 17, 2008
Location: Brought to you by the Splash Fam
   

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1385 » by Coxy » Wed May 20, 2020 11:57 pm

wco81 wrote:I don't know is there really that much demand for Wiggins?

He was widely seen as a big bust, with a very unappealing contract.

Trying to look at teams which need more scoring from SF: Miami, Washington, Portland, Memphis, Houston, OKC, Utah (with Bogdanovic out for season).

I don't see any of these teams making a big play for a $30 million a year Wiggins.


Who cares of they want him or not? We have him, he fits as a 3rd to 4th option player for us, and can handle the ball as a 2nd/3rd initiator. Losing him now creates an enormous hole at SF, so unless something better is coming back, or he can be used to upgrade the C spot, just keep him, he'll be good.

Other than to lighten Lacobs deep deep pockets, we have no need to move him, and a LOT of reasons to keep him.
Chris Porter's Hair wrote:but in a startling development the General board didn't agree.
wco81
General Manager
Posts: 9,854
And1: 3,087
Joined: Jul 04, 2013
     

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1386 » by wco81 » Thu May 21, 2020 12:14 am

I'm not saying they should trade him. Just doubt that there's much of a trade market for him.
ILOVEIT
RealGM
Posts: 10,226
And1: 1,695
Joined: May 28, 2004

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1387 » by ILOVEIT » Thu May 21, 2020 2:31 am

Just listened to an old take by Steven A Smith regarding Giannis.

Essentially he said if Durant comes back healthy to the Nets....Giannis is more likely to leave the East and join the Warriors because he knows he wouldn't be able to beat Durant and Kyrie.

His best chance at a championship is with the Warriors in that case.
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
weekend_warrior
Junior
Posts: 390
And1: 123
Joined: Dec 02, 2014
 

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1388 » by weekend_warrior » Thu May 21, 2020 10:13 am

thinkingwarriors wrote:The basis of all the suggested trades is that Wiggins must be sold low. Of course what's being ignored is that Wiggins was already sold low, to us. So then why should we turn around and sell him low again? It's like if I buy a stock in a company after a dip in the price after a poor sales forecast. I'm going to hold onto that stock for a while hoping the company can turn the ship around. I'm not buying low to immediately resell low, I'm buying low in the hopes of being able to one day sell high.

The truth is that what Myers did trading D'lo for Wiggins and a valuable first is a win provided Wiggins fits our needs better than the Wolves needs. People on the trade board don't get that. In their mind Wiggins is bad value on every team and our trade for him was a lateral move at best, probably many think we lost the trade. In their minds, we messed up and sold D'lo low and so we need to cut our losses by selling Wiggins low and at the very least turn low quality into high quantity and pay someone in draft picks for their willingness to accommodate us.


You are spot on.

I would add one thing: I think that most Warriors fans liked the improvement they saw this season from players like Paschall, Chriss, even Lee and Poole. Their stats for the entire season may not be great, but their play especially towards the end of the RS was quite promising.
For me these players aren't just mere throw-ins that need to be replaced with more expensive (!) versions of other teams benches. I am confident in them providing some solid minutes for us next year.
We have no need for these bang average players that are often an integral part of the trade proposals.

When I look at our roster, I see 3 spots we NEED to fill:

1) A solid 7ft center to fill some minutes against big teams. We did ok with Pachulia at minimum level for that. No need to pay a Vucevic 25m that doesn't even fit our play style.

2) A backup SF. Our MLE should do the job here.

3) A veteran combo guard. Hell, Alec Burks didn't look so bad for us at minimum this season.

Also there is our draft pick to fill one of these, if we decide to keep it. Or the TPE to take on some neutral value contract.

Now, if we could get a better player (that fits our style) at one of these positions by using the TPE and the pick (and maybe even the Min21), I am all for it. I haven't seen any proposals like that though.
kingcong95
Freshman
Posts: 81
And1: 26
Joined: Nov 10, 2019
       

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1389 » by kingcong95 » Fri May 22, 2020 8:20 am

weekend_warrior wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:The basis of all the suggested trades is that Wiggins must be sold low. Of course what's being ignored is that Wiggins was already sold low, to us. So then why should we turn around and sell him low again? It's like if I buy a stock in a company after a dip in the price after a poor sales forecast. I'm going to hold onto that stock for a while hoping the company can turn the ship around. I'm not buying low to immediately resell low, I'm buying low in the hopes of being able to one day sell high.

The truth is that what Myers did trading D'lo for Wiggins and a valuable first is a win provided Wiggins fits our needs better than the Wolves needs. People on the trade board don't get that. In their mind Wiggins is bad value on every team and our trade for him was a lateral move at best, probably many think we lost the trade. In their minds, we messed up and sold D'lo low and so we need to cut our losses by selling Wiggins low and at the very least turn low quality into high quantity and pay someone in draft picks for their willingness to accommodate us.


You are spot on.

I would add one thing: I think that most Warriors fans liked the improvement they saw this season from players like Paschall, Chriss, even Lee and Poole. Their stats for the entire season may not be great, but their play especially towards the end of the RS was quite promising.
For me these players aren't just mere throw-ins that need to be replaced with more expensive (!) versions of other teams benches. I am confident in them providing some solid minutes for us next year.
We have no need for these bang average players that are often an integral part of the trade proposals.

When I look at our roster, I see 3 spots we NEED to fill:

1) A solid 7ft center to fill some minutes against big teams. We did ok with Pachulia at minimum level for that. No need to pay a Vucevic 25m that doesn't even fit our play style.

2) A backup SF. Our MLE should do the job here.

3) A veteran combo guard. Hell, Alec Burks didn't look so bad for us at minimum this season.

Also there is our draft pick to fill one of these, if we decide to keep it. Or the TPE to take on some neutral value contract.

Now, if we could get a better player (that fits our style) at one of these positions by using the TPE and the pick (and maybe even the Min21), I am all for it. I haven't seen any proposals like that though.


I wouldn't mind doing something along the lines of:

To PHX: #5 or above in 2020
To GSW: Oubre, #10 in 2020 if Suns don't move up; if they do, it's a top 5 protected 2021 1st

The issue is that the other players that have been offered to us with the TPE aren't really interesting. Suns fans don't want to give up Oubre but he has too much in common with Mikal Bridges, who was traded up for, and may not want to stay in Phoenix.

Then draft Hayes, Haliburton, or Vassell with #10 to address the backup guard spot and sign a big bodied center with the MLE. Baynes (if he buys Steph a gift basket with part of his first paycheck with us) or Gasol would be the top of the list.
thinkingwarriors
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,483
And1: 3,529
Joined: May 15, 2006
Location: On the road...
     

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1390 » by thinkingwarriors » Fri May 22, 2020 5:28 pm

kingcong95 wrote:
weekend_warrior wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:The basis of all the suggested trades is that Wiggins must be sold low. Of course what's being ignored is that Wiggins was already sold low, to us. So then why should we turn around and sell him low again? It's like if I buy a stock in a company after a dip in the price after a poor sales forecast. I'm going to hold onto that stock for a while hoping the company can turn the ship around. I'm not buying low to immediately resell low, I'm buying low in the hopes of being able to one day sell high.

The truth is that what Myers did trading D'lo for Wiggins and a valuable first is a win provided Wiggins fits our needs better than the Wolves needs. People on the trade board don't get that. In their mind Wiggins is bad value on every team and our trade for him was a lateral move at best, probably many think we lost the trade. In their minds, we messed up and sold D'lo low and so we need to cut our losses by selling Wiggins low and at the very least turn low quality into high quantity and pay someone in draft picks for their willingness to accommodate us.


You are spot on.

I would add one thing: I think that most Warriors fans liked the improvement they saw this season from players like Paschall, Chriss, even Lee and Poole. Their stats for the entire season may not be great, but their play especially towards the end of the RS was quite promising.
For me these players aren't just mere throw-ins that need to be replaced with more expensive (!) versions of other teams benches. I am confident in them providing some solid minutes for us next year.
We have no need for these bang average players that are often an integral part of the trade proposals.

When I look at our roster, I see 3 spots we NEED to fill:

1) A solid 7ft center to fill some minutes against big teams. We did ok with Pachulia at minimum level for that. No need to pay a Vucevic 25m that doesn't even fit our play style.

2) A backup SF. Our MLE should do the job here.

3) A veteran combo guard. Hell, Alec Burks didn't look so bad for us at minimum this season.

Also there is our draft pick to fill one of these, if we decide to keep it. Or the TPE to take on some neutral value contract.

Now, if we could get a better player (that fits our style) at one of these positions by using the TPE and the pick (and maybe even the Min21), I am all for it. I haven't seen any proposals like that though.


I wouldn't mind doing something along the lines of:

To PHX: #5 or above in 2020
To GSW: Oubre, #10 in 2020 if Suns don't move up; if they do, it's a top 5 protected 2021 1st

The issue is that the other players that have been offered to us with the TPE aren't really interesting. Suns fans don't want to give up Oubre but he has too much in common with Mikal Bridges, who was traded up for, and may not want to stay in Phoenix.

Then draft Hayes, Haliburton, or Vassell with #10 to address the backup guard spot and sign a big bodied center with the MLE. Baynes (if he buys Steph a gift basket with part of his first paycheck with us) or Gasol would be the top of the list.


I like your trade suggestion, I would take Patrick Williams at #10 although Vassell would be acceptable too. I don't think either Hayes or Haliburton will be there. Suddenly, long athletic wings would be a point of tremendous depth for us.

The only problem is that Oubre would likely be a short term answer for us. He's good enough to start on a lot of teams and talented, multi-skilled wings that don't need the ball to make an impact are highly sought after. So unless he falls in love with the organization, he's almost assuredly gone after next season for a max or near-max deal and a starting role with another team.
Bob Meyers, June 7, 2018: "“It’s not in my job description to please NBA fans. It’s to win, end of story. I don’t need to be entertained, I just need to win. That’s all it is. That’s all I was hired to do. Win.”
User avatar
TB
Head Coach
Posts: 6,441
And1: 65
Joined: Mar 11, 2007

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1391 » by TB » Fri May 22, 2020 8:53 pm

Love both of those Oubre scenarios, mentioned them a few times in various threads.

My dream scenario is still the 21st FRP for Oubre, and then this years 1st and Looney for Detroit 1st and Kennard.

Wing situation solved.
gswhoops
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 28,384
And1: 826
Joined: Apr 27, 2005
Location: Warriors - Niners - Skins - Stanford - SF Giants
     

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1392 » by gswhoops » Sat May 23, 2020 8:12 am

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:Does anyone here follow the Trades board? I hadn't looked in a while, and when I recently did, like half the trades are some variant of:
Warriors give: Wiggins, 2020 first round pick
Warriors get: a bunch of random garbage

Why for the Warriors: they get out of Wiggins contract and get "depth"

Am I alone in thinking this makes no sense at all? It amounts to tapping out and saying, "We aren't going to win, so who cares if we get worse, at least Lacob will save some money." It puts us in no better position to build a contender, and arguably harms those chances greatly by giving away a high 1st. And some of the variants also have us giving away the Minnesota pick for next year.

Yup.

The MO is basically: offer whatever vets they don’t really need for Wiggins and the pick, then shout about how “Warriors fans are such homers they think Wiggins is an asset now” and “guess you’re happy wasting the rest of Curry’s prime” when we say no thanks.
migya
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,285
And1: 412
Joined: Aug 13, 2005

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1393 » by migya » Sun May 24, 2020 9:35 am

xdrta+ wrote:
Chris Porter's Hair wrote:Does anyone here follow the Trades board? I hadn't looked in a while, and when I recently did, like half the trades are some variant of:
Warriors give: Wiggins, 2020 first round pick
Warriors get: a bunch of random garbage

Why for the Warriors: they get out of Wiggins contract and get "depth"

Am I alone in thinking this makes no sense at all? It amounts to tapping out and saying, "We aren't going to win, so who cares if we get worse, at least Lacob will save some money." It puts us in no better position to build a contender, and arguably harms those chances greatly by giving away a high 1st. And some of the variants also have us giving away the Minnesota pick for next year.


Unless they can get some ridiculous offer (most unlikely) I don't want to see them trade Wiggins at all. And certainly not with a 1st rd pick.




Using the Warriors' lottery pick, TWolves lottery pick and Wiggins is a must to get superstar while also getting rid of Wiggins and his way too big for a third or fourth option contract. Giannis would probably be the best player to get now but any star like player that would fit, be it a PG, SG or SF. Curry could play SG if needed, though obviously defensively it'd be awkward but it works both ways and Curry can out score most guards. Klay can play SF at 6'7.Wonder if Bradley Beal would fit well, he'd make a great scoring trio with Klay and Curry. Wonder if the Blazers think they don't have a chance to build a real contender and would trade Lillard. Maybe waiting one month into next season and seeing if Wiggins performs well is a better option.
gobullschi
Rookie
Posts: 1,157
And1: 138
Joined: May 23, 2006

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1394 » by gobullschi » Sun May 24, 2020 12:27 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:Just listened to an old take by Steven A Smith regarding Giannis.

Essentially he said if Durant comes back healthy to the Nets....Giannis is more likely to leave the East and join the Warriors because he knows he wouldn't be able to beat Durant and Kyrie.

His best chance at a championship is with the Warriors in that case.


Steven A has been playing too much NBA 2K. How would that even work out though?

Capped out so you can’t sign him when he is an unrestricted free agent. Milwaukee is going to trade Giannis when they have a legit chance at winning a championship? I doubt it.
User avatar
FNQ
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 50,594
And1: 12,870
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Location: waiting for my Egg McMuffin BUT THEY ONLY GAVE MY COFFEE
     

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1395 » by FNQ » Tue May 26, 2020 2:52 am

Put it all on the line for Beal in the T&T board... basically our FRP/MIN 1st/2022 1st + Paschall/Poole for Beal and Ish Smith. Ish not necessary, but a decent 6m backup PG. Getting back to overloading the wings and stretching teams extremely thin on the perimeter to maximize Steph and Klay. Kinda like we were gonna do with DLo, but with a better player and better attitude. One last swing for the fences with Steph, Klay and Dray.
Keepin it classless
Watching the easily manipulated be easily manipulated
User avatar
Mylie10
RealGM
Posts: 38,237
And1: 8,411
Joined: Sep 16, 2005
Location: * Chokers! *
Contact:
     

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1396 » by Mylie10 » Tue May 26, 2020 3:15 am

FNQ wrote:Put it all on the line for Beal in the T&T board... basically our FRP/MIN 1st/2022 1st + Paschall/Poole for Beal and Ish Smith. Ish not necessary, but a decent 6m backup PG. Getting back to overloading the wings and stretching teams extremely thin on the perimeter to maximize Steph and Klay. Kinda like we were gonna do with DLo, but with a better player and better attitude. One last swing for the fences with Steph, Klay and Dray.


Honestly, I dont hate that.
Quazza - Zion was kinda like watching an old Godzilla movie where hes just walking around a miniature city and smashing everything
wco81
General Manager
Posts: 9,854
And1: 3,087
Joined: Jul 04, 2013
     

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1397 » by wco81 » Tue May 26, 2020 4:13 am

Beale at 2?

Then who plays the 3, Klay or Wiggins?
User avatar
Coxy
RealGM
Posts: 39,265
And1: 9,191
Joined: Jun 17, 2008
Location: Brought to you by the Splash Fam
   

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1398 » by Coxy » Tue May 26, 2020 4:24 am

wco81 wrote:Beale at 2?

Then who plays the 3, Klay or Wiggins?


Wiggins goes in the deal as well, FNQ forgot to add him in.

I'd be OK with the deal, but would really try to keep EP out of it. The haul is huge for Washington without Paschall.
Chris Porter's Hair wrote:but in a startling development the General board didn't agree.
User avatar
Chris Porter's Hair
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 6,965
And1: 2,051
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Location: San Mateo, CA

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1399 » by Chris Porter's Hair » Tue May 26, 2020 4:58 pm

I'm not a fan of betting the ranch to get Beal. He's a lousy defender, and if playing him causes us to push Klay up to the 3, we also start to lose some of the defensive advantage we have now based on size. It would cost us a lot, and I'm not convinced we'd be much better, if at all.
Image

crzyyafrican makes the best sigs, quite frankly
ChuckDurn
Veteran
Posts: 2,854
And1: 372
Joined: May 13, 2011

Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#1400 » by ChuckDurn » Tue May 26, 2020 6:10 pm

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:I'm not a fan of betting the ranch to get Beal. He's a lousy defender, and if playing him causes us to push Klay up to the 3, we also start to lose some of the defensive advantage we have now based on size. It would cost us a lot, and I'm not convinced we'd be much better, if at all.

I agree.

I don’t think many people appreciate how having a 6’7” SG who is able to get his shot up over shorter defenders, and be able to competently guard at least 4 of the 5 positions on a switch-heavy defensive scheme during the age of pick’n’roll offenses, is basically a cheat code.
If I don't have anything funny to say, can I still have a signature?

Return to Golden State Warriors