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Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back)

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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2021 » by ShayDee » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:18 pm

Warriors Analyst wrote:
Sabonis rates as a good defender by every advanced metric out there, PIPM, RPM, BPM, RAPTOR. .


Sabonis is stopping neither AD/Bron nor any perimeter players. And with his recent injury, his defense would only decline from here
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2022 » by Scoots1994 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:35 pm

Warriors Analyst wrote:
tarantism wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
I would choose Sabonis over Turner for the Warriors every day and twice on Sunday. You get the best player and figure it out and he's a much better player than Turner is.

That's not to say that I think it's at all likely.

I'm willing to support the Wiseman move even though I don't have the confidence about it some do. I think it's entirely possible he would get well under 15 minutes a game as a rookie
If they hypothetically went with Sabonis then they still need to get an athletic big man who can protect the rim and ideally space the floor offensively. They would probably only have the MLE and minimum contacts available at that point.

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Sabonis rates as a good defender by every advanced metric out there, PIPM, RPM, BPM, RAPTOR. I generally agree that floor spacing is important for this team, especially with Draymond's shot getting worse with each year, but Sabonis is such a good passer and smart offensive player that I'd be a little less concerned about that than I would with other players.


He's also a very good screen setter and he can see the play before the players get there. He would be ideal in every way other than shot blocking and sheer intimidating size.
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2023 » by tarantism » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:42 pm

ShayDee wrote:
Warriors Analyst wrote:
Sabonis rates as a good defender by every advanced metric out there, PIPM, RPM, BPM, RAPTOR. .


Sabonis is stopping neither AD/Bron nor any perimeter players. And with his recent injury, his defense would only decline from here
Advanced defensive metrics have trouble discerning between individual impact and teammate impact. The Pacers usually had average to good defenders around him.

I'm not saying he's terrible, but he doesn't fit the Warriors need of size, athleticism and rim protection on the inside. A big who doesn't bring any of those qualities to the table and still carries a Sabonis-like price tag doesn't feel worth it right now.
Melo and amare should thrive in this offense. If Jeremy Tyler and cole Aldridge looked that good in summer league then us knick fans have a lot to be excited about. Make room for all the bandwagoners when we take off
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2024 » by Scoots1994 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:10 am

tarantism wrote:
ShayDee wrote:
Warriors Analyst wrote:
Sabonis rates as a good defender by every advanced metric out there, PIPM, RPM, BPM, RAPTOR. .


Sabonis is stopping neither AD/Bron nor any perimeter players. And with his recent injury, his defense would only decline from here
Advanced defensive metrics have trouble discerning between individual impact and teammate impact. The Pacers usually had average to good defenders around him.

I'm not saying he's terrible, but he doesn't fit the Warriors need of size, athleticism and rim protection on the inside. A big who doesn't bring any of those qualities to the table and still carries a Sabonis-like price tag doesn't feel worth it right now.


He would be better than most of the centers he'd face and be a bigger positive to the Warriors over most centers. Would you be happier with Sabonis and McGee/Whiteside?
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2025 » by tarantism » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:41 am

Scoots1994 wrote:
tarantism wrote:
ShayDee wrote:
Sabonis is stopping neither AD/Bron nor any perimeter players. And with his recent injury, his defense would only decline from here
Advanced defensive metrics have trouble discerning between individual impact and teammate impact. The Pacers usually had average to good defenders around him.

I'm not saying he's terrible, but he doesn't fit the Warriors need of size, athleticism and rim protection on the inside. A big who doesn't bring any of those qualities to the table and still carries a Sabonis-like price tag doesn't feel worth it right now.


He would be better than most of the centers he'd face and be a bigger positive to the Warriors over most centers. Would you be happier with Sabonis and McGee/Whiteside?
Meh. McGee maybe but I'll pass on Whiteside. As far as guys who might get something at or below MLE level, I wouldn't mind Biyombo, Favors or maybe Henson. Mason Plumlee doesn't do much to protect the rim but at least he hustles and tries to rebound, and can make some plays on offense.

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Melo and amare should thrive in this offense. If Jeremy Tyler and cole Aldridge looked that good in summer league then us knick fans have a lot to be excited about. Make room for all the bandwagoners when we take off
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2026 » by zimpy27 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:43 am

GSW gets: Turner, Warren, Lamb, McConnell

Indy gets: Wiggins, pick 2, 2021 MIN FRP, TPE 17m (used on Warren + McConnell)


PG: Curry | McConnell | Bowman
SG: Klay | Lee | Poole | Mulder
SF: Warren | Lamb | Toscano
PF: Green | Paschall | Smailagic
C : Turner | Looney
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2027 » by Quazza » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:51 am

Remember a few years ago when we were just steam rolling everyone, and poster from another team came here and said "wtf man ...as if you guys even have a trade thread. Gtfo"

Good times, man. Good times
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2028 » by ShayDee » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:51 am

zimpy27 wrote:GSW gets: Turner, Warren, Lamb, McConnell

Indy gets: Wiggins, pick 2, 2021 MIN FRP, TPE 17m (used on Warren + McConnell)


PG: Curry | McConnell | Bowman
SG: Klay | Lee | Poole | Mulder
SF: Warren | Lamb | Toscano
PF: Green | Paschall | Smailagic
C : Turner | Looney


How many wing defenders are in that lineup? We going to get torched everywhere that is not the rim
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2029 » by zimpy27 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:55 am

ShayDee wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:GSW gets: Turner, Warren, Lamb, McConnell

Indy gets: Wiggins, pick 2, 2021 MIN FRP, TPE 17m (used on Warren + McConnell)


PG: Curry | McConnell | Bowman
SG: Klay | Lee | Poole | Mulder
SF: Warren | Lamb | Toscano
PF: Green | Paschall | Smailagic
C : Turner | Looney


How many wing defenders are in that lineup? We going to get torched everywhere that is not the rim


Klay, Warren, Green
Where are your wing defenders prior to this trade?
You will also have an MLE for a guy like Jones Jr if you want. What was your plan for wing defenders?
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2030 » by ShayDee » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:58 am

zimpy27 wrote:
ShayDee wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:GSW gets: Turner, Warren, Lamb, McConnell

Indy gets: Wiggins, pick 2, 2021 MIN FRP, TPE 17m (used on Warren + McConnell)


PG: Curry | McConnell | Bowman
SG: Klay | Lee | Poole | Mulder
SF: Warren | Lamb | Toscano
PF: Green | Paschall | Smailagic
C : Turner | Looney


How many wing defenders are in that lineup? We going to get torched everywhere that is not the rim


Klay, Warren, Green
Where are your wing defenders prior to this trade?
You will also have an MLE for a guy like Jones Jr if you want. What was your plan for wing defenders?


The wing defender was Wiggins and the MLE target. Warren is a sever downgrade and he is not defending anyone
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2031 » by tarantism » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:02 am

zimpy27 wrote:GSW gets: Turner, Warren, Lamb, McConnell

Indy gets: Wiggins, pick 2, 2021 MIN FRP, TPE 17m (used on Warren + McConnell)


PG: Curry | McConnell | Bowman
SG: Klay | Lee | Poole | Mulder
SF: Warren | Lamb | Toscano
PF: Green | Paschall | Smailagic
C : Turner | Looney
This seems like the Warriors would be buying too high on a few good bubble games from Warren. I would rather just keep Wiggins, at least he has potential to move the needle imo.

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Melo and amare should thrive in this offense. If Jeremy Tyler and cole Aldridge looked that good in summer league then us knick fans have a lot to be excited about. Make room for all the bandwagoners when we take off
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2032 » by zimpy27 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:10 am

ShayDee wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
ShayDee wrote:
How many wing defenders are in that lineup? We going to get torched everywhere that is not the rim


Klay, Warren, Green
Where are your wing defenders prior to this trade?
You will also have an MLE for a guy like Jones Jr if you want. What was your plan for wing defenders?


The wing defender was Wiggins and the MLE target. Warren is a sever downgrade and he is not defending anyone


:-?
Ok well, our evaluation of players seems quite opposite. So I understand why you don't like the trade. I have Warren as quite a bit better than Wiggins.
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2033 » by ShayDee » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:29 am

zimpy27 wrote:
ShayDee wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Klay, Warren, Green
Where are your wing defenders prior to this trade?
You will also have an MLE for a guy like Jones Jr if you want. What was your plan for wing defenders?


The wing defender was Wiggins and the MLE target. Warren is a sever downgrade and he is not defending anyone


:-?
Ok well, our evaluation of players seems quite opposite. So I understand why you don't like the trade. I have Warren as quite a bit better than Wiggins.

Wiggins is a better defender than Warren. You can ask anyone. We need more defense than scoring
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2034 » by zimpy27 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:50 am

ShayDee wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
ShayDee wrote:
The wing defender was Wiggins and the MLE target. Warren is a sever downgrade and he is not defending anyone


:-?
Ok well, our evaluation of players seems quite opposite. So I understand why you don't like the trade. I have Warren as quite a bit better than Wiggins.

Wiggins is a better defender than Warren. You can ask anyone. We need more defense than scoring


I consulted every impact metric I could and all have Warren as much better than Wiggins on defense.
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2035 » by cpower » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:33 am

ShayDee wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
ShayDee wrote:
The wing defender was Wiggins and the MLE target. Warren is a sever downgrade and he is not defending anyone


:-?
Ok well, our evaluation of players seems quite opposite. So I understand why you don't like the trade. I have Warren as quite a bit better than Wiggins.

Wiggins is a better defender than Warren. You can ask anyone. We need more defense than scoring

Wiggins is a terrible defensive wing...Myers is gambling on his defense but he will be disappointed .. you cant teach defense overnight
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2036 » by ShayDee » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:44 am

DALLAS - We have detailed in the recent past the deep relationship that exists between certain members of the Dallas Mavericks organization and two-time MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo. We have also pointed out the obstacles that stand between a union between those two parties - most of all his present employer, the Milwaukee Bucks.

But an informed media insider, Brian Windhorst speaking on “The Jump” on ESPN, makes it clear that he expects the Mavs to be the frontrunner in when it comes time to try to acquire "The Greek Freak,''

The way Windhorst illustrates it, such a move would happen in the NBA free agency period of 2021, when Antetokounmpo is due to become an unrestricted free agent. Windhorst's remarks:

"The Dallas Mavericks are going to be at the head of the line in pursuing Giannis. They want to have a third star. They want to keep their books clear for 2021, I wouldn’t expect them to add any major free agents this year. They’re going to wait.”

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/the-dallas-mavs-are-first-in-line-for-giannis-antetokounmpo-when-he-becomes-an-nba-free-agent-per-a-report?fbclid=IwAR2cAs41uha41-1Gy3k5lGlRpbhSDBU-ThVsZ2AiTF0ImQ-CjnH22Pk38T4


Delon Wright and 18 for our 2021 1st? Maybe if Minny don't want to give 17 and James Johnson

Gives us a good back up PG. Bane will be back up SG with the 18th pick and we have a cheaper TPE which helps owners and we can get a good back up SF with MLE.
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2037 » by Scoots1994 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:26 pm

cpower wrote:
ShayDee wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
:-?
Ok well, our evaluation of players seems quite opposite. So I understand why you don't like the trade. I have Warren as quite a bit better than Wiggins.

Wiggins is a better defender than Warren. You can ask anyone. We need more defense than scoring

Wiggins is a terrible defensive wing...Myers is gambling on his defense but he will be disappointed .. you cant teach defense overnight


He's a bad team defender, when he's just playing his man he's above average. He's kind of like Klay that way, Klay is MUCH better defending a man than a scheme.

Okoro is high on my draft list because he's a great man defender and a great team defender and we need more than Draymond who can do that.

As far as players the Warriors MAY be able to get ... Isaac, Winslow, Covington, Harkless, Thad Young, Miles Turner, Whiteside ... all of them have issues too, but they can defend some part of the game well.
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2038 » by tarantism » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:29 pm

ShayDee wrote:
DALLAS - We have detailed in the recent past the deep relationship that exists between certain members of the Dallas Mavericks organization and two-time MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo. We have also pointed out the obstacles that stand between a union between those two parties - most of all his present employer, the Milwaukee Bucks.

But an informed media insider, Brian Windhorst speaking on “The Jump” on ESPN, makes it clear that he expects the Mavs to be the frontrunner in when it comes time to try to acquire "The Greek Freak,''

The way Windhorst illustrates it, such a move would happen in the NBA free agency period of 2021, when Antetokounmpo is due to become an unrestricted free agent. Windhorst's remarks:

"The Dallas Mavericks are going to be at the head of the line in pursuing Giannis. They want to have a third star. They want to keep their books clear for 2021, I wouldn’t expect them to add any major free agents this year. They’re going to wait.”

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/the-dallas-mavs-are-first-in-line-for-giannis-antetokounmpo-when-he-becomes-an-nba-free-agent-per-a-report?fbclid=IwAR2cAs41uha41-1Gy3k5lGlRpbhSDBU-ThVsZ2AiTF0ImQ-CjnH22Pk38T4


Delon Wright and 18 for our 2021 1st? Maybe if Minny don't want to give 17 and James Johnson

Gives us a good back up PG. Bane will be back up SG with the 18th pick and we have a cheaper TPE which helps owners and we can get a good back up SF with MLE.
This seems to me like moving a strong asset like next year's Minnesota first for pennies on the dollar. Delon Wright could barely get on the court during the playoffs this year. That Minnesota pick could definitely be very high in a stronger draft when our main guys are a year older and possibly coming off of another playoff run. We need to supplement this roster with young talent, I wouldn't just deal these good picks all willy nilly.

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Melo and amare should thrive in this offense. If Jeremy Tyler and cole Aldridge looked that good in summer league then us knick fans have a lot to be excited about. Make room for all the bandwagoners when we take off
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2039 » by Onus » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:43 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
cpower wrote:
ShayDee wrote:Wiggins is a better defender than Warren. You can ask anyone. We need more defense than scoring

Wiggins is a terrible defensive wing...Myers is gambling on his defense but he will be disappointed .. you cant teach defense overnight


He's a bad team defender, when he's just playing his man he's above average. He's kind of like Klay that way, Klay is MUCH better defending a man than a scheme.

Okoro is high on my draft list because he's a great man defender and a great team defender and we need more than Draymond who can do that.

As far as players the Warriors MAY be able to get ... Isaac, Winslow, Covington, Harkless, Thad Young, Miles Turner, Whiteside ... all of them have issues too, but they can defend some part of the game well.

Wiggins will be a better iso defender than Klay. They both need to work on their defensive awareness off the ball though.
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Re: Trade Thread (TRADE WARS EPISODE V: The Empire Strikes Back) 

Post#2040 » by ShayDee » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:21 pm

tarantism wrote:This seems to me like moving a strong asset like next year's Minnesota first for pennies on the dollar. Delon Wright could barely get on the court during the playoffs this year. That Minnesota pick could definitely be very high in a stronger draft when our main guys are a year older and possibly coming off of another playoff run. We need to supplement this roster with young talent, I wouldn't just deal these good picks all willy nilly.

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I said our GS 2021 pick not the Minny pick

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