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Sure sounds like KD is leaving

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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#781 » by Impuniti » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:43 pm

Dom801e wrote:I could see a scenario where they bring everyone back next year except Livingston and Jerebko. Possibly adding someone like Gay, Ariza, or Hood with the MLE to start while KD recovers and then move to the bench once he returns.

Maybe draft a pg.

Gay, Ariza and curly Lopez for the MLE. :oops:
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#782 » by Andre Roberstan » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:43 pm

Prayers up for KD. Whatever personal feelings we have about the GSW move, no one wants this. Except for idiots and ****** we disown.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#783 » by Coxy » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:59 pm

KD may look at his player option now.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#784 » by Warriors Analyst » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:00 am

Sleepy51 wrote:
wco81 wrote:ABC/ESPN is suggesting Warriors pressures KD to play and now “raw emotions” in the locker room with Kleimann in there and Myers in there too.

Sounding like they’re yelling at Myers?


The team had absolutely no leverage to force KD into the court and certainly not in opposition to doctors orders.

When Myers says to blame him he means blame him for not overriding everyone including KD to prioritize the long term over the immediate present. He doesn’t mean the team forced KD to play against medical clearance. He means he should have been the adult in the room to say “KD, we expect to have you back next year and whether you come back or not, it’s not worth it.”

From the first injury it looked exactly like an Achilles injury. They probably downplayed it publicly to keep Toronto off balance for preparation. In all likelihood presented the team and KD with an outlook that was going to require offseason surgery either way, the question being would the injury be exacerbated by playing on it. And it was. There is absolutely zero point zero percent chance that everyone involved in making the medical clearance decision didn’t understand the risks. This isn’t the North Dallas Forty world and it’s most definitely not football. Team pressures aside, no doctor is going to jeopardize their license or the liability of obscuring this kind of risk from a patient.

Playing was important to KD and the team. They chose to take on the risk. He will heal and recover and continue his magnificent career and I seriously doubt KD will ever regret trying to help this team win this finals. He will regret only that he couldn’t help more.


So this all makes sense, but at a certain point I really really wonder when the Warriors are going to face serious ramifications for misleading the public about their players' injuries. The reason I suspect that your hypothesis is pretty spot on is that we have precedent for the Warriors downplaying or giving misleading information about injuries to Bogut and Iguodala. In 2012-2013, Bogut played the season opener after recovering from microfracture surgery on his ankle, and if my memory serves me correctly, he played one more game in November before being shut down until the last 30 or so games of the season. That entire season, the Warriors were incredibly vague about why Bogut got shut down and what thresholds he needed to clear to come back on the court. Similarly, Iguodala's "knee contusion" from last years' playoffs was later revealed to be something that Andre described as a "spiderweb like fracture" of his knee! That's absolutely not a contusion and it's pretty nuts that Andre came back from that injury to play in the finals. Now that I'm typing this all out, I'm also remembering that Klay got kneed in the head by Ariza in the 2015 playoffs and looked like he'd been concussed, somehow managed to get cleared to play in that same game and didn't get shut back down until he bled from his ears.

The Lacob regime has been incredibly shady about giving the public proper diagnosis's for their players. The Bay Area media has some solid writers, but outside of ESS, nobody really seems to have the chops or desire to do the investigative digging or ask the hard questions to figure out how and why the Warriors keep downplaying these injuries. I'm not sure the Warriors as an organization can face any type of tangible ramifications from the league for doing this, but I do wonder what will happen when the media starts to chase this story down, and beyond that I wonder how much talk there is amongst players about how the Warriors PR team deals with injuries and whether or not this will affect them in FA in the future.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#785 » by ILOVEIT » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:29 am

"Incredibly shady"? The Lacob "regime"?

Sounds like South Korea around here... wholly !@$

Lacob is the best owner going. Myers is the best GM going. Kerr is a very good leader and quality person and coach. The players care for each other and we are lucky to have this team.

The rest...is BS.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#786 » by Sleepy51 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:46 am

I don’t see why the public is entitled to the specifics of a player’s injury details. To me that’s between the patient, their doctor and their employer. If a team wants to obscure injury details to keep opponents guessing why do I give a crap? I don’t feel entitled to know everything I might want to know, but I didn’t grow up in the social media age. I don’t expect unfettered access to other people’s lives, even those who live part of their life in public.

No skin off my nose and maybe just maybe it’s not my business?
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#787 » by michaelm » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:57 am

Warriors Analyst wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:
wco81 wrote:ABC/ESPN is suggesting Warriors pressures KD to play and now “raw emotions” in the locker room with Kleimann in there and Myers in there too.

Sounding like they’re yelling at Myers?


The team had absolutely no leverage to force KD into the court and certainly not in opposition to doctors orders.

When Myers says to blame him he means blame him for not overriding everyone including KD to prioritize the long term over the immediate present. He doesn’t mean the team forced KD to play against medical clearance. He means he should have been the adult in the room to say “KD, we expect to have you back next year and whether you come back or not, it’s not worth it.”

From the first injury it looked exactly like an Achilles injury. They probably downplayed it publicly to keep Toronto off balance for preparation. In all likelihood presented the team and KD with an outlook that was going to require offseason surgery either way, the question being would the injury be exacerbated by playing on it. And it was. There is absolutely zero point zero percent chance that everyone involved in making the medical clearance decision didn’t understand the risks. This isn’t the North Dallas Forty world and it’s most definitely not football. Team pressures aside, no doctor is going to jeopardize their license or the liability of obscuring this kind of risk from a patient.

Playing was important to KD and the team. They chose to take on the risk. He will heal and recover and continue his magnificent career and I seriously doubt KD will ever regret trying to help this team win this finals. He will regret only that he couldn’t help more.


So this all makes sense, but at a certain point I really really wonder when the Warriors are going to face serious ramifications for misleading the public about their players' injuries. The reason I suspect that your hypothesis is pretty spot on is that we have precedent for the Warriors downplaying or giving misleading information about injuries to Bogut and Iguodala. In 2012-2013, Bogut played the season opener after recovering from microfracture surgery on his ankle, and if my memory serves me correctly, he played one more game in November before being shut down until the last 30 or so games of the season. That entire season, the Warriors were incredibly vague about why Bogut got shut down and what thresholds he needed to clear to come back on the court. Similarly, Iguodala's "knee contusion" from last years' playoffs was later revealed to be something that Andre described as a "spiderweb like fracture" of his knee! That's absolutely not a contusion and it's pretty nuts that Andre came back from that injury to play in the finals. Now that I'm typing this all out, I'm also remembering that Klay got kneed in the head by Ariza in the 2015 playoffs and looked like he'd been concussed, somehow managed to get cleared to play in that same game and didn't get shut back down until he bled from his ears.

The Lacob regime has been incredibly shady about giving the public proper diagnosis's for their players. The Bay Area media has some solid writers, but outside of ESS, nobody really seems to have the chops or desire to do the investigative digging or ask the hard questions to figure out how and why the Warriors keep downplaying these injuries. I'm not sure the Warriors as an organization can face any type of tangible ramifications from the league for doing this, but I do wonder what will happen when the media starts to chase this story down, and beyond that I wonder how much talk there is amongst players about how the Warriors PR team deals with injuries and whether or not this will affect them in FA in the future.

Nonsense. The other name for a bone contusion is microtrabecular fracture. And I agree with Sleepy that the public doesn’t have a right to know every detail of a player’s medical history and health status, particularly given Durant’s impending FA status at the conclusion of the finals.

The one guy they did badly by was Festus Ezeli imo.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#788 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:05 am

Samurai wrote:
SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:
KevinMcreynolds wrote:
Too big of a risk imo. I saw a list of NBA players that have torn their achilles and none of them returned to form except Dominque Wilkins. It was literally one guy out of about 20 players.

If Luxury tax really does not matter and only winning matters and if the Warriors really have cap room to sign players even if KD leaves then gambling on Durant getting healthy is a no brainer. Pay Durant whatever it takes to keep him.

Cousins will be gone because the Warriors can't match other teams offers.
Warriors can give Cousins money to somebody.

Warriors might find players like JaVale and David West available at minimum contracts.

There are two statements here and I don't believe both are equally true. On the first statement, Lacob has stated before that he is willing to pay the luxury tax to keep this group together to win championships. Only Lacob really knows how far he is willing to reach into his wallet, but that is what he said. But I don't believe the second statement is true. I'm certainly no cap expert, but its been reported that even if KD leaves, we would still be over the cap. Even being over the cap, we could re-sign KD because we have his Bird rights - just as we do with Klay and Draymond. Obviously we would not have that for players not currently on the team. So I believe that means that we could re-sign KD even though we are over the cap as long as Lacob is willing to spend that much money. We would not have that "KD money" to sign someone else.


I screwed up my 2nd statement. I meant to write "really don't have cap room" . Somehow I left out the word "don't"

I believe what you believe about the cap. That is why we sign Durant and the Mideast level taxpayer exception or we only sign the mid level tax payer exception.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#789 » by Samurai » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:33 am

SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:
Samurai wrote:
SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:If Luxury tax really does not matter and only winning matters and if the Warriors really have cap room to sign players even if KD leaves then gambling on Durant getting healthy is a no brainer. Pay Durant whatever it takes to keep him.

Cousins will be gone because the Warriors can't match other teams offers.
Warriors can give Cousins money to somebody.

Warriors might find players like JaVale and David West available at minimum contracts.

There are two statements here and I don't believe both are equally true. On the first statement, Lacob has stated before that he is willing to pay the luxury tax to keep this group together to win championships. Only Lacob really knows how far he is willing to reach into his wallet, but that is what he said. But I don't believe the second statement is true. I'm certainly no cap expert, but its been reported that even if KD leaves, we would still be over the cap. Even being over the cap, we could re-sign KD because we have his Bird rights - just as we do with Klay and Draymond. Obviously we would not have that for players not currently on the team. So I believe that means that we could re-sign KD even though we are over the cap as long as Lacob is willing to spend that much money. We would not have that "KD money" to sign someone else.


I screwed up my 2nd statement. I meant to write "really don't have cap room" . Somehow I left out the word "don't"

I believe what you believe about the cap. That is why we sign Durant and the Mideast level taxpayer exception or we only sign the mid level tax payer exception.

The big challenge is that even if we were able to re-sign KD, he won't play next year. And we don't have the money to sign a one-year replacement. I think we are showing that we are a good team with the Splash Brothers and Dray, but without KD we are not a true challenger for a title.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#790 » by Realfan2019 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:45 am

xdrta+ wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:Problem is, no one knows what he'll be like after going through rehab. Maybe he'll be as you describe, maybe not. Tying up that much of the cap at this stage, until he's 36 yo, is a huge risk. I can't imagine the Warriors would take that risk.


They had better efn do it because in their heart of hearts they did this to him and are responsible for all this shut. The responsibility lies with team management to save the player from himself even if he is hell bent on ending his career. KD was far from that with what is at stake, he was clearly being pressured to come back when Kerr and crew got desperate facing a team that they full well knew they could not beat without his boost on the floor. I can almost guarantee you that if this series was 3-2 or even 2-2 warriors were the warriors looked like the more powerful team and the raptors were lucking or eaking out victories, KD’s health would not have been risked.

If that management does not offer KD the 5 year max win or lose after this series, then they are the snakes and no one will ever question a professional athlete having their own private doctors and making decisions to sit out games they don’t feel like playing left and right and no one will question it ever again. This KD tragedy will change the landscape of the NBA.

The warrior have won 3 rings already and might still win few more but if they show KD any kind of disloyalty after what he did last night I would not be shocked if their lost some of their most important current players in the locker room. If KD asks for the 5 year max it’s their duty to give it to him and take the L even if they will not get their money’s worth. That injury could very have costed that man 5 more years of elite level basketball in a major market like NY where he could have made far more millions in endorsements alone than the max contract a potential knicks or nets suitors would sign him to.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#791 » by wco81 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:50 am

Warriors may or may not owe KD a multiyear deal, especially if they misled him about the possible risk of him playing.

But KD himself was offered what last year, a 5-year deal over $200 million?

For "flexibility" he signed a 1/1 deal instead. Players may realize now that you don't turn down a 4 or 5 year deal worth well over $100 million.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#792 » by D.Brasco » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:04 am

wco81 wrote:Warriors may or may not owe KD a multiyear deal, especially if they misled him about the possible risk of him playing.

But KD himself was offered what last year, a 5-year deal over $200 million?

For "flexibility" he signed a 1/1 deal instead. Players may realize now that you don't turn down a 4 or 5 year deal worth well over $100 million.


Man he could actually sue the team for malpractice if that were case, let alone him wanting to re-sign.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#793 » by wco81 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:10 am

He could sue but there's no evidence that's the case.

I don't think Kerr would knowingly play him if the doctors told him he's at greater risk for re-injury.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#794 » by Mylie10 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:11 am

KD wasn't misled.

His own doctor cleared him. The Warriors doctor cleared him. The training staff cleared him.

He wanted to play badly....and he played. He's now going to pay the price. But it was his decision.

All of this talk is just bluster.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#795 » by Coxy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:17 am

Sleepy51 wrote:I don’t see why the public is entitled to the specifics of a player’s injury details. To me that’s between the patient, their doctor and their employer. If a team wants to obscure injury details to keep opponents guessing why do I give a crap? I don’t feel entitled to know everything I might want to know, but I didn’t grow up in the social media age. I don’t expect unfettered access to other people’s lives, even those who live part of their life in public.

No skin off my nose and maybe just maybe it’s not my business?


Not me, I am entitled to know everything including the butt plug size for every athlete because athletes are public property and not really human beings.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#796 » by Realfan2019 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:22 am

Mylie10 wrote:KD wasn't misled.

His own doctor cleared him. The Warriors doctor cleared him. The training staff cleared him.

He wanted to play badly....and he played. He's now going to pay the price. But it was his decision.

All of this talk is just bluster.



His own doctors cleared him to play?

Ultimately the team’s doctors are responsible, but IF his own doctors and camp were the ones giving him the green light, then that is just tragic.

Where is Kawhi’s uncle when you need one?
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#797 » by xdrta+ » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:40 am

Realfan2019 wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:


They had better efn do it because in their heart of hearts they did this to him and are responsible for all this shut. The responsibility lies with team management to save the player from himself even if he is hell bent on ending his career. KD was far from that with what is at stake, he was clearly being pressured to come back when Kerr and crew got desperate facing a team that they full well knew they could not beat without his boost on the floor. I can almost guarantee you that if this series was 3-2 or even 2-2 warriors were the warriors looked like the more powerful team and the raptors were lucking or eaking out victories, KD’s health would not have been risked.

If that management does not offer KD the 5 year max win or lose after this series, then they are the snakes and no one will ever question a professional athlete having their own private doctors and making decisions to sit out games they don’t feel like playing left and right and no one will question it ever again. This KD tragedy will change the landscape of the NBA.

The warrior have won 3 rings already and might still win few more but if they show KD any kind of disloyalty after what he did last night I would not be shocked if their lost some of their most important current players in the locker room. If KD asks for the 5 year max it’s their duty to give it to him and take the L even if they will not get their money’s worth. That injury could very have costed that man 5 more years of elite level basketball in a major market like NY where he could have made far more millions in endorsements alone than the max contract a potential knicks or nets suitors would sign him to.


I've seldom seen so much nonsense in such a short space. Because he got hurt, which you think is their fault, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, It's their duty to offer him a 5 yr max? If he opts in, they're bound to pay him $31MM not to play next year, that's what their duty is. Beyond that, it's whatever two sides agree on. No one is obligated to do anything. And, no, it won't change the NBA landscape, whatever that means. He's not the first player to get hurt, you know.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#798 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:54 am

Samurai wrote:
SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:
Samurai wrote:There are two statements here and I don't believe both are equally true. On the first statement, Lacob has stated before that he is willing to pay the luxury tax to keep this group together to win championships. Only Lacob really knows how far he is willing to reach into his wallet, but that is what he said. But I don't believe the second statement is true. I'm certainly no cap expert, but its been reported that even if KD leaves, we would still be over the cap. Even being over the cap, we could re-sign KD because we have his Bird rights - just as we do with Klay and Draymond. Obviously we would not have that for players not currently on the team. So I believe that means that we could re-sign KD even though we are over the cap as long as Lacob is willing to spend that much money. We would not have that "KD money" to sign someone else.


I screwed up my 2nd statement. I meant to write "really don't have cap room" . Somehow I left out the word "don't"

I believe what you believe about the cap. That is why we sign Durant and the Mideast level taxpayer exception or we only sign the mid level tax payer exception.

The big challenge is that even if we were able to re-sign KD, he won't play next year. And we don't have the money to sign a one-year replacement. I think we are showing that we are a good team with the Splash Brothers and Dray, but without KD we are not a true challenger for a title.


We don't need KD in the regular season; we just need him in the playoffs.
I don't think the Raptors are a great team but there is a chance that no playoff team next year will be as good as this year's Raptors. The other teams also have salary cap problems and players that might leave and Chris Paul getting older. Maybe the Warriors can compete without KD in a down year.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#799 » by wco81 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:28 am

xdrta+ wrote:
Realfan2019 wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:


I've seldom seen so much nonsense in such a short space. Because he got hurt, which you think is their fault, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, It's their duty to offer him a 5 yr max? If he opts in, they're bound to pay him $31MM not to play next year, that's what their duty is. Beyond that, it's whatever two sides agree on. No one is obligated to do anything. And, no, it won't change the NBA landscape, whatever that means. He's not the first player to get hurt, you know.


David Aldridge cites league sources as saying several teams including Warriors will still try to max him out because even at 80%, he'd be a 20-25 PPG scorer.
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Re: Sure sounds like KD is leaving 

Post#800 » by wco81 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:31 am

SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:
We don't need KD in the regular season; we just need him in the playoffs.
I don't think the Raptors are a great team but there is a chance that no playoff team next year will be as good as this year's Raptors. The other teams also have salary cap problems and players that might leave and Chris Paul getting older. Maybe the Warriors can compete without KD in a down year.


I wouldn't say that's true unless the Warriors can get a guy who would give them 25 minutes and hit the corner 3 at least at 37-38% clip, rebound a little and of course defend.

Unfortunately guys with proven record to do the above would be more than what the Warriors could fit under the cap.

Because otherwise, Curry and Klay will get blitzed all season long and they may need to play more minutes, for the team to try to get 50-55 wins.

As they age, they're going to need more help, not come back into games to find the second unit put them in a deeper hole than when they went to the bench.

Of course Kerr is going to use load management at all costs anyways.

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