Warriors sign Glenn Robinson III

[Samurai]

he is not a much of a defender...that is the issue.

Do we know that as a fact? He seemed to struggle in Detroit last year, at one point the Pistons had a 109.5 Def rtg with GR3 in the lineup and a shockingly better 98.1 when he was replaced when replaced with SJ. But with the Pacers in 2018, it was the exact opposite as Indiana had a 99 Def rtg with GR3 in the game and a 104.5 when he was on the bench. In terms of defending shooters, the Pacers only allowed 84 points per 100 possessions when GR3 was defending the spot-up shooter. That number, by the way, was better than guys like Danny Green, Andre Roberson, and even some guy named Draymond. And catch-and-shoot guys only shot 29% when defended by GR3.

So who are we getting? The excellent defender from the Pacers or the poor defender from Detroit? Given that he averaged 15 minutes/game in 2018 and only 13 minutes/game last year, I am guessing that we have no idea due to small sample size in both years. The point is that since we don't know, I'm not sure it is fair for you to just pretend that 2018 never happened and declare that "he is not much of a defender...that is the issue." You may be right and this past season is more representative of who he is; I pray you are wrong since we don't need his 29% 3-point shooting! You may be wrong and 2018 may be more of who he will be with us; those defensive stats and his 41% 3-point shooting will be very welcome. At least he has the tools - 6-6 height, 6-9 wingspan, phenomenal athleticism - to be a solid perimeter defender. And that's likely why he was available for cheap; he has all the tools but no one knows if he can properly use them to help a team win.

[xdrta+]

The terms are unknown, but it sounds like a minimum deal. By giving Robinson a two-year deal, the second year a player option, the Warriors incur a 2019/20 cap hit of $1,882,867 rather than $1,620,564, an extra 262,303‬, pushing them ever closer to their hard cap at the $138.9MM tax apron.

[statsman]

The terms are unknown, but it sounds like a minimum deal. By giving Robinson a two-year deal, the second year a player option, the Warriors incur a 2019/20 cap hit of $1,882,867 rather than $1,620,564, an extra 262,303‬, pushing them ever closer to their hard cap at the $138.9MM tax apron.

Really? So, the actual full salary counts rather than the 2 year vet minimum.

[xdrta+]

The terms are unknown, but it sounds like a minimum deal. By giving Robinson a two-year deal, the second year a player option, the Warriors incur a 2019/20 cap hit of $1,882,867 rather than $1,620,564, an extra 262,303‬, pushing them ever closer to their hard cap at the $138.9MM tax apron.

Really?

Sure. As I'm sure you know, minimum contracts are charged to the cap at the two year minimum rate ($1,620,564,) with the league reimbursing the team for the excess (5 yr, 10 yr, whatever.) But that's only for a one year contract. A two year contract will be paid and cap-charged at the full rate. 5 yr = $1,882,867.

[GQ Hot Dog]

If he can return to ~40% from 3 with a starter's usage he'll win the job. I don't think McKinnie can get there by next season.

Unless there is another big bodied SF coming in a few days, McKinnie is the rebounder of all the wings and guards we have right now, save for Steph, which is pretty damn funny. And disturbing of course. Assuming WCS starts, Looney plays his 25-30 minutes a game as the primary bench big, we might be able to get a combined 20 minutes a game out of Paschall, Smailagic, and Jones, but as it stands we don't have great rebounding front court. We are going to be in desperate need of rebounding from the wings. McKinnie brings that.

Looney will start when healthy.

I don't know, I think Kerr likes Looney in his role off the bench. I wouldn't be surprised if WCS started but Looney got a few more minutes coming off the bench behind him.

[Warriors Analyst]

Unless there is another big bodied SF coming in a few days, McKinnie is the rebounder of all the wings and guards we have right now, save for Steph, which is pretty damn funny. And disturbing of course. Assuming WCS starts, Looney plays his 25-30 minutes a game as the primary bench big, we might be able to get a combined 20 minutes a game out of Paschall, Smailagic, and Jones, but as it stands we don't have great rebounding front court. We are going to be in desperate need of rebounding from the wings. McKinnie brings that.

Looney will start when healthy.

I don't know, I think Kerr likes Looney in his role off the bench. I wouldn't be surprised if WCS started but Looney got a few more minutes coming off the bench behind him.

Agreed. Fair or not, I think part of Kerr's concerns about Looney starting are that a lot of the starting C's in the west are big bruising 7'0 and he wants to preserve Looney's body. Most teams are going smaller in high leverage minutes nowadays, less physical exhaustion/risk factor for Looney in the last six or so minutes of each quarter.

[DAWill1128]

Glenn Robinson III is interesting, he had a lot of hype after a great freshman year helping Michigan get to the Championship game. Robinson could have left after his freshman year and went really high. The following year guys wanted to come back and win it and McGary the center got injured and they lost in the elite 8, the hype died down a bit on him.

I don't know what happened after he got drafted but Indiana got ahold of him and they had high hopes. Robinson showed improvements and they were hoping he would take the next step like George, Granger, and Stephenson had but an injury derailed him.

As his agent you have to be thinking heres my guy, he has potential he just needs more playing time. I mean he's a former all-stars son, was in the dunk contest, and has shot the 3 ball well before. A guy like Robinson where he doesn't have much of a handle or in between game probably doesn't get noticed unless he's getting a lot of run and gun minutes where he is spoonfed offensive chances.

If I was an agent and my client was a wing I would be hitting GSW hard with calls. If you have a client in the Warriors system with Curry and Russell feeding you the ball you will get a lot of open 3's. Draymond is not a great shooter and neither are the centers on the team so the starting small forward is really ideal for open shots. Just ask Harrison Barnes, guy had it great till he shot 11% in that Finals.

[xdrta+]

I wonder why they had to give him the second year PO, instead of a regular 1 yr minimum. There must have been another team looking at him and the Warriors decided they wanted him badly enough to go for that.

[wco81]

His career attempts isn’t that high.

Not a high volume shooter.

[Mylie10]

Malachi Richardson might be better.

Is there a guarantee date on this thing?

[Samurai]

His career attempts isn’t that high.

Not a high volume shooter.

True, but on a team with Steph, Klay (eventually) and D-Lo, not sure we would want GR3 being a high volume shooter. If he can take/make the open 3 to take advantage of Steph's gravity, I think Kerr will be happy with that.

[cladden]

he is not a much of a defender...that is the issue.

Do we know that as a fact? He seemed to struggle in Detroit last year, at one point the Pistons had a 109.5 Def rtg with GR3 in the lineup and a shockingly better 98.1 when he was replaced when replaced with SJ. But with the Pacers in 2018, it was the exact opposite as Indiana had a 99 Def rtg with GR3 in the game and a 104.5 when he was on the bench. In terms of defending shooters, the Pacers only allowed 84 points per 100 possessions when GR3 was defending the spot-up shooter. That number, by the way, was better than guys like Danny Green, Andre Roberson, and even some guy named Draymond. And catch-and-shoot guys only shot 29% when defended by GR3.

So who are we getting? The excellent defender from the Pacers or the poor defender from Detroit? Given that he averaged 15 minutes/game in 2018 and only 13 minutes/game last year, I am guessing that we have no idea due to small sample size in both years. The point is that since we don't know, I'm not sure it is fair for you to just pretend that 2018 never happened and declare that "he is not much of a defender...that is the issue." You may be right and this past season is more representative of who he is; I pray you are wrong since we don't need his 29% 3-point shooting! You may be wrong and 2018 may be more of who he will be with us; those defensive stats and his 41% 3-point shooting will be very welcome. At least he has the tools - 6-6 height, 6-9 wingspan, phenomenal athleticism - to be a solid perimeter defender. And that's likely why he was available for cheap; he has all the tools but no one knows if he can properly use them to help a team win.

Defensive rating on/off have produced tons of outliers over the years. Not saying that anyone has a better metric but it's clearly giving questionable data some of the time.

[Quazza]

Will there be highlight dunks ?

[GQ Hot Dog]

He's a former player's son on the Warriors. Could it be any more obvious? He'll be an All-Star soon.

[azwfan]

Would have preferred a more accomplished veteran for the minimum. Like Kawhi Leonard or worst case Danny Green. Get your act together Bob!

Seriously though, i don't know much about GR3 except I remember wanting him and GP2 back in the day (only due to being son's of former nbaers). Didn't really watch him play much. Looks like he's upped his FT% to around 80% the last few years which gives me hope he'll be a solid shooting SF for us.

Our SF's right now are GR3 and McKinnie. I'd feel better about the position if we could add Shumpert to that group (if he's still available). Not sure how many roster spots we have available though.

[thunderdunk]

Is Derrickson gone now? Is he playing for Sacto? If so, how did that happen? Dubs need cheap depth.

And BTW -- the Dubs summer team looks terrible... D Jones, J Evans, etc... Yikes. Nobody is looking good on that team.

[Samurai]

he is not a much of a defender...that is the issue.

Do we know that as a fact? He seemed to struggle in Detroit last year, at one point the Pistons had a 109.5 Def rtg with GR3 in the lineup and a shockingly better 98.1 when he was replaced when replaced with SJ. But with the Pacers in 2018, it was the exact opposite as Indiana had a 99 Def rtg with GR3 in the game and a 104.5 when he was on the bench. In terms of defending shooters, the Pacers only allowed 84 points per 100 possessions when GR3 was defending the spot-up shooter. That number, by the way, was better than guys like Danny Green, Andre Roberson, and even some guy named Draymond. And catch-and-shoot guys only shot 29% when defended by GR3.

So who are we getting? The excellent defender from the Pacers or the poor defender from Detroit? Given that he averaged 15 minutes/game in 2018 and only 13 minutes/game last year, I am guessing that we have no idea due to small sample size in both years. The point is that since we don't know, I'm not sure it is fair for you to just pretend that 2018 never happened and declare that "he is not much of a defender...that is the issue." You may be right and this past season is more representative of who he is; I pray you are wrong since we don't need his 29% 3-point shooting! You may be wrong and 2018 may be more of who he will be with us; those defensive stats and his 41% 3-point shooting will be very welcome. At least he has the tools - 6-6 height, 6-9 wingspan, phenomenal athleticism - to be a solid perimeter defender. And that's likely why he was available for cheap; he has all the tools but no one knows if he can properly use them to help a team win.

Defensive rating on/off have produced tons of outliers over the years. Not saying that anyone has a better metric but it's clearly giving questionable data some of the time.

Stats are imperfect, but at least they are a form of evidence that others can agree or disagree with. Def rating and off/on are not perfect as you point out. But if you couple those with the data point that the Pacers only allowed 84 pts/100 possessions when GR3 was defending the spot-up shooter, or that catch-and-shoot guys only shot 29% when defended by GR3, the combination of the four data points becomes more compelling. My question, that cpower has still not answered, is if we aren't using those stats then what evidence is driving him to make the conclusion that GR3 is "not much of a defender." Since I am trying to get a crash course on this guy, I would appreciate seeing the evidence that points to him as a bad defender. Not wanting to see this just to bash the poster; I just want to learn more about our new guy.

[cpower]

he is not a much of a defender...that is the issue.

Do we know that as a fact? He seemed to struggle in Detroit last year, at one point the Pistons had a 109.5 Def rtg with GR3 in the lineup and a shockingly better 98.1 when he was replaced when replaced with SJ. But with the Pacers in 2018, it was the exact opposite as Indiana had a 99 Def rtg with GR3 in the game and a 104.5 when he was on the bench. In terms of defending shooters, the Pacers only allowed 84 points per 100 possessions when GR3 was defending the spot-up shooter. That number, by the way, was better than guys like Danny Green, Andre Roberson, and even some guy named Draymond. And catch-and-shoot guys only shot 29% when defended by GR3.

So who are we getting? The excellent defender from the Pacers or the poor defender from Detroit? Given that he averaged 15 minutes/game in 2018 and only 13 minutes/game last year, I am guessing that we have no idea due to small sample size in both years. The point is that since we don't know, I'm not sure it is fair for you to just pretend that 2018 never happened and declare that "he is not much of a defender...that is the issue." You may be right and this past season is more representative of who he is; I pray you are wrong since we don't need his 29% 3-point shooting! You may be wrong and 2018 may be more of who he will be with us; those defensive stats and his 41% 3-point shooting will be very welcome. At least he has the tools - 6-6 height, 6-9 wingspan, phenomenal athleticism - to be a solid perimeter defender. And that's likely why he was available for cheap; he has all the tools but no one knows if he can properly use them to help a team win.

I am just speaking from getting the data from different places. for example, RPM data on his pacers dates also gave a negative defensive number, which is a bit concerning. But I won't say he is a bad defender, probably an average defender at SF. I am interested to see how he does switching and defending slightly bigger players. But either way he should be a better defender than McKinnie.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2016/page/2/position/2

[Samurai]

he is not a much of a defender...that is the issue.

Do we know that as a fact? He seemed to struggle in Detroit last year, at one point the Pistons had a 109.5 Def rtg with GR3 in the lineup and a shockingly better 98.1 when he was replaced when replaced with SJ. But with the Pacers in 2018, it was the exact opposite as Indiana had a 99 Def rtg with GR3 in the game and a 104.5 when he was on the bench. In terms of defending shooters, the Pacers only allowed 84 points per 100 possessions when GR3 was defending the spot-up shooter. That number, by the way, was better than guys like Danny Green, Andre Roberson, and even some guy named Draymond. And catch-and-shoot guys only shot 29% when defended by GR3.

So who are we getting? The excellent defender from the Pacers or the poor defender from Detroit? Given that he averaged 15 minutes/game in 2018 and only 13 minutes/game last year, I am guessing that we have no idea due to small sample size in both years. The point is that since we don't know, I'm not sure it is fair for you to just pretend that 2018 never happened and declare that "he is not much of a defender...that is the issue." You may be right and this past season is more representative of who he is; I pray you are wrong since we don't need his 29% 3-point shooting! You may be wrong and 2018 may be more of who he will be with us; those defensive stats and his 41% 3-point shooting will be very welcome. At least he has the tools - 6-6 height, 6-9 wingspan, phenomenal athleticism - to be a solid perimeter defender. And that's likely why he was available for cheap; he has all the tools but no one knows if he can properly use them to help a team win.

I am just speaking from getting the data from different places. for example, RPM data on his pacers dates also gave a negative defensive number, which is a bit concerning. But I won't say he is a bad defender, probably an average defender at SF. I am interested to see how he does switching and defending slightly bigger players. But either way he should be a better defender than McKinnie.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2016/page/2/position/2

OK, thanks for clarifying how you formed your opinion. Of course, GR3's DRPM is based on a sample size of 11 minutes/game, so he may end up being better or worse than those numbers given the very small sample size. But since it is very similar to Trevor Ariza (-0.65), if his defense does end up being comparable to Ariza's, would you consider that a "win" for us defensively? I am certainly not expecting GR3, or really anyone else, being able to replicate what Iguodala gave us defensively, but I am hoping he can be a adequate 3-and-D guy for us. Obviously if the "D" is missing from that, then we missed the mark. And since his sample size is so small, no one knows what he can really bring if he were to play 25 minutes/game which is why we could get him for so cheap.

[Samurai]

GR3 clearly outplayed McKinnie against the T-Wolves. Their first game against the Lakers is sort of a wash as neither looked that impressive. Obviously how they play in the next 2 games against the Lakers and how they look in practice will determine who our starting SF will be but I gotta admit that I was pleasantly surprised with GR3's game last night. If last night is not a fluke, our SF spot may not be as much of a disaster as I was fearing earlier.

Then again, if no one steps up, at what point does Kerr go with a 3-guard lineup and put Poole at the SF spot? He will be bullied inside and killed on the glass, but maybe he can score enough to offset the negatives? Burks appears to be living up to his reputation as a guy who never seems to be healthy. Love Zo's rebounding but so far his offense seems no better than it was last season. So it's up to GR3 to get aggressive and prove he wants the job or we may have to go with a super-small lineup and just hope to outscore the other team.