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DLO trade thread

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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#61 » by killmongrel » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:23 pm

I'm telling you guys, Aaron Gordon and Terrance Ross for DLo would be a great return for DLo. We get a 23 year old SF in Gordon who is decent at the 3 and getting better. Can play the 4 as well. With the Warriors, he'll grow defensively as well.

And we also get a good 3&D guy in Terrance Ross, who could be a starting quality 3.

Some of you want a super star return. But let's be realistic, so many things have to happen for that to be a possibility. But I guess we can scout the landscape of the league and see if there are any breadcrumbs of a super star being unhappy.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#62 » by The-Power » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:56 pm

killmongrel wrote:I'm telling you guys, Aaron Gordon and Terrance Ross for DLo would be a great return for DLo. We get a 23 year old SF in Gordon who is decent at the 3 and getting better. Can play the 4 as well.

He's a 4 that can play the 3, not the other way around. He's a fine player to get in case Russell doesn't fit with us but nobody to go after before you see what Russell can bring to the team and how he fits.

Upside is clearly on Russell's side I'd argue that he's also much more needed given our current roster. A solid starting 3 is needed, but not as much as another ball handler who can shoot and create off the dribble as well as make plays for others.

killmongrel wrote:Some of you want a super star return. But let's be realistic, so many things have to happen for that to be a possibility.

The idea is to keep Russell unless a superstar is available. If that isn't the case and he plays well, keep him. Simple. The ones who want a superstar are not the ones that want to sell Russell no matter what.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#63 » by GQ Hot Dog » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:00 pm

The-Power wrote:A solid starting 3 is needed, but not as much as another ball handler who can shoot and create off the dribble as well as make plays for others.


This. Can someone name a team that suffers or under performs due to an abundance of playmakers/shotmakers and too few complimentary pieces?
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#64 » by killmongrel » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:04 pm

The-Power wrote:
killmongrel wrote:I'm telling you guys, Aaron Gordon and Terrance Ross for DLo would be a great return for DLo. We get a 23 year old SF in Gordon who is decent at the 3 and getting better. Can play the 4 as well.

He's a 4 that can play the 3, not the other way around. He's a fine player to get in case Russell doesn't fit with us but nobody to go after before you see what Russell can bring to the team and how he fits.

Upside is clearly on Russell's side I'd argue that he's also much more needed given our current roster. A solid starting 3 is needed, but not as much as another ball handler who can shoot and create off the dribble as well as make plays for others.

killmongrel wrote:Some of you want a super star return. But let's be realistic, so many things have to happen for that to be a possibility.

The idea is to keep Russell unless a superstar is available. If that isn't the case and he plays well, keep him. Simple. The ones who want a superstar are not the ones that want to sell Russell no matter what.
I'm in the camp that wants to see DLo do so well, we can't trade him.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#65 » by weekend_warrior » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:06 pm

I am very intrigued by this new team. I think the offense is going to be unstoppable once Klay returns. You have 3 great playmakers in Curry, D-Lo and Green, 2 lights-out shooters and a good one in Curry, Klay and D-Lo (also Green with some range, albeit streaky) and a mobile big with solid passing and strong offensive rebounding in Looney.

Obviously the defensive end is going to be more problematic. But I absolutely agree that an offensive weapon like D-Lo will be more valuable than a solid wing (we won't get a star SF anyways). If McKinnie and Robinson and the others can hit some open shots, play solid defense and rebound then we will be absolutely fine.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#66 » by floppymoose » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:47 pm

thinkingwarriors wrote:
The-Power wrote:A solid starting 3 is needed, but not as much as another ball handler who can shoot and create off the dribble as well as make plays for others.

This. Can someone name a team that suffers or under performs due to an abundance of playmakers/shotmakers and too few complimentary pieces?

Where the Warriors really suffer is simply when Curry isn't on the court. That's been true for years. I don't know if DLo can fix that, but it seems like he has a better shot at it than adding an SF.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#67 » by Samurai » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:47 pm

weekend_warrior wrote:I am very intrigued by this new team. I think the offense is going to be unstoppable once Klay returns. You have 3 great playmakers in Curry, D-Lo and Green, 2 lights-out shooters and a good one in Curry, Klay and D-Lo (also Green with some range, albeit streaky) and a mobile big with solid passing and strong offensive rebounding in Looney.

Obviously the defensive end is going to be more problematic. But I absolutely agree that an offensive weapon like D-Lo will be more valuable than a solid wing (we won't get a star SF anyways). If McKinnie and Robinson and the others can hit some open shots, play solid defense and rebound then we will be absolutely fine.

Agree that our offense should be fine and the defense will have the big question marks. Kerr likes to run, and with Curry, Dray and DLo you now have 3 guys that can lead the break. GR3 is an elite finisher in transition and WCS is one of the best rim runners for a center. We have plenty of guys that are athletic enough to run and get some easy buckets in transition.

Obviously no one can shoot like KD in iso situations. But we still have Curry, DLo and Burks who have all shown, to varying degrees, the ability to produce points in iso situations. And I am optimistic that Poole will be able to create his own shot as well. And Curry still has that unprecedented gravity to warp defenses when he is off-ball - fortunately WCS and GR3 excel at cutting to the basket for layups/dunks/lobs and they will love the more open spaces in the lane that happens when defenders keep one eye on Steph wherever he runs to. And Dray and DLo are excellent at delivering those passes to cutters.

Should be a fun offense to watch; just don't know if we can score more points than we will give up on the other end.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#68 » by OptionZero » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:24 pm

floppymoose wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:
The-Power wrote:A solid starting 3 is needed, but not as much as another ball handler who can shoot and create off the dribble as well as make plays for others.

This. Can someone name a team that suffers or under performs due to an abundance of playmakers/shotmakers and too few complimentary pieces?

Where the Warriors really suffer is simply when Curry isn't on the court. That's been true for years. I don't know if DLo can fix that, but it seems like he has a better shot at it than adding an SF.


We're also going to suffer not having any wing defenders. You can't make up for losing Klay (half a year min), KD, and Iguodala by having a better backup PG.

A combo forward that can contribute on both ends is way more valuable than any 3rd guard.

Think about what made GSW special: we had more and better 6'6-6/9 dudes that balled out on both ends than anyone else

With Dray aging, it's gonna be massive to acquire the future 3/4

It's be great for Dlo to ball out, but i'm not seein any other assets on this team that are gonna get us the help we need

unless you think Alex Burks or GR3 are gonna turn into championship level wing options
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#69 » by The-Power » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:30 pm

OptionZero wrote:You can't make up for losing Klay (half a year min), KD, and Iguodala by having a better backup PG.

You can't make up for the loss of these players through any possible trade.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#70 » by Samurai » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:39 pm

OptionZero wrote:
floppymoose wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:This. Can someone name a team that suffers or under performs due to an abundance of playmakers/shotmakers and too few complimentary pieces?

Where the Warriors really suffer is simply when Curry isn't on the court. That's been true for years. I don't know if DLo can fix that, but it seems like he has a better shot at it than adding an SF.


We're also going to suffer not having any wing defenders. You can't make up for losing Klay (half a year min), KD, and Iguodala by having a better backup PG.

A combo forward that can contribute on both ends is way more valuable than any 3rd guard.

Think about what made GSW special: we had more and better 6'6-6/9 dudes that balled out on both ends than anyone else

With Dray aging, it's gonna be massive to acquire the future 3/4

It's be great for Dlo to ball out, but i'm not seein any other assets on this team that are gonna get us the help we need

unless you think Alex Burks or GR3 are gonna turn into championship level wing options

What about Washburn? Apparently we haven't waived him yet as was initially reported and he played for us last night. He guarded 1-4 in college and was considered a premier lockdown man-defender during his UTEP career. Can we sign him to one of our 2-ways to at least give us a part-time wing defender?
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#71 » by xdrta+ » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:49 pm

Samurai wrote:
OptionZero wrote:
floppymoose wrote:Where the Warriors really suffer is simply when Curry isn't on the court. That's been true for years. I don't know if DLo can fix that, but it seems like he has a better shot at it than adding an SF.


We're also going to suffer not having any wing defenders. You can't make up for losing Klay (half a year min), KD, and Iguodala by having a better backup PG.

A combo forward that can contribute on both ends is way more valuable than any 3rd guard.

Think about what made GSW special: we had more and better 6'6-6/9 dudes that balled out on both ends than anyone else

With Dray aging, it's gonna be massive to acquire the future 3/4

It's be great for Dlo to ball out, but i'm not seein any other assets on this team that are gonna get us the help we need

unless you think Alex Burks or GR3 are gonna turn into championship level wing options

What about Washburn? Apparently we haven't waived him yet as was initially reported and he played for us last night. He guarded 1-4 in college and was considered a premier lockdown man-defender during his UTEP career. Can we sign him to one of our 2-ways to at least give us a part-time wing defender?


He's already signed. His two-way contract was traded to the Warriors in the Iguodala deal. It was assumed he'd be waived (at no cost since 2-ways have no guaranteed money) but it hasn't happened yet. As of now he's filling one of the 2-way slots.

EDIT: I should clarify, 2-ways can contain guaranteed money, up to 50k, but as far as I know, Washburn's doesn't.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#72 » by Samurai » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:06 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
Samurai wrote:
OptionZero wrote:
We're also going to suffer not having any wing defenders. You can't make up for losing Klay (half a year min), KD, and Iguodala by having a better backup PG.

A combo forward that can contribute on both ends is way more valuable than any 3rd guard.

Think about what made GSW special: we had more and better 6'6-6/9 dudes that balled out on both ends than anyone else

With Dray aging, it's gonna be massive to acquire the future 3/4

It's be great for Dlo to ball out, but i'm not seein any other assets on this team that are gonna get us the help we need

unless you think Alex Burks or GR3 are gonna turn into championship level wing options

What about Washburn? Apparently we haven't waived him yet as was initially reported and he played for us last night. He guarded 1-4 in college and was considered a premier lockdown man-defender during his UTEP career. Can we sign him to one of our 2-ways to at least give us a part-time wing defender?


He's already signed. His two-way contract was traded to the Warriors in the Iguodala deal. It was assumed he'd be waived (at no cost since 2-ways have no guaranteed money) but it hasn't happened yet. As of now he's filling one of the 2-way slots.

So it sounds like we do have our wing defender, at least for 45 days!

I'm guessing that the team is deciding between another PG (Bowman) or another SG (Lee) for that final 2-way spot? If so, I'd rather have Lee.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#73 » by xdrta+ » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:10 pm

Samurai wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Samurai wrote:What about Washburn? Apparently we haven't waived him yet as was initially reported and he played for us last night. He guarded 1-4 in college and was considered a premier lockdown man-defender during his UTEP career. Can we sign him to one of our 2-ways to at least give us a part-time wing defender?


He's already signed. His two-way contract was traded to the Warriors in the Iguodala deal. It was assumed he'd be waived (at no cost since 2-ways have no guaranteed money) but it hasn't happened yet. As of now he's filling one of the 2-way slots.

So it sounds like we do have our wing defender, at least for 45 days!

I'm guessing that the team is deciding between another PG (Bowman) or another SG (Lee) for that final 2-way spot? If so, I'd rather have Lee.


I haven't seen any SL. Has Washburn looked good?
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#74 » by Coxy » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:27 pm

killmongrel wrote:I'm telling you guys, Aaron Gordon and Terrance Ross for DLo would be a great return for DLo. We get a 23 year old SF in Gordon who is decent at the 3 and getting better. Can play the 4 as well. With the Warriors, he'll grow defensively as well.

And we also get a good 3&D guy in Terrance Ross, who could be a starting quality 3.

Some of you want a super star return. But let's be realistic, so many things have to happen for that to be a possibility. But I guess we can scout the landscape of the league and see if there are any breadcrumbs of a super star being unhappy.


Sign me up.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#75 » by killmongrel » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:41 pm

Coxy wrote:
killmongrel wrote:I'm telling you guys, Aaron Gordon and Terrance Ross for DLo would be a great return for DLo. We get a 23 year old SF in Gordon who is decent at the 3 and getting better. Can play the 4 as well. With the Warriors, he'll grow defensively as well.

And we also get a good 3&D guy in Terrance Ross, who could be a starting quality 3.

Some of you want a super star return. But let's be realistic, so many things have to happen for that to be a possibility. But I guess we can scout the landscape of the league and see if there are any breadcrumbs of a super star being unhappy.


Sign me up.


Finally.

I remember being cold on the idea of Aaron Gordon + scraps for DLo, but then if we can have depth at the SF/PF position, it's an amazing trade. Terrance Ross was somebody I was hoping the Warriors could target with the MLE or something if Durant had walked for nothing, but he got a mult-year deal Orlando.

Things can change in a couple months or a year, but right now, this is one of the better trades. I'm cold on trades involving Covington, Drummond, etc. Blech. We'd have to get so much in return with depth for those type of players that I'd rather just keep DLo and fake it till we make it.

But of course maybe Embiid finally has enough of Philly next summer.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#76 » by GQ Hot Dog » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:37 am

OptionZero wrote:
floppymoose wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:This. Can someone name a team that suffers or under performs due to an abundance of playmakers/shotmakers and too few complimentary pieces?

Where the Warriors really suffer is simply when Curry isn't on the court. That's been true for years. I don't know if DLo can fix that, but it seems like he has a better shot at it than adding an SF.


We're also going to suffer not having any wing defenders. You can't make up for losing Klay (half a year min), KD, and Iguodala by having a better backup PG.

A combo forward that can contribute on both ends is way more valuable than any 3rd guard.

Think about what made GSW special: we had more and better 6'6-6/9 dudes that balled out on both ends than anyone else

With Dray aging, it's gonna be massive to acquire the future 3/4

It's be great for Dlo to ball out, but i'm not seein any other assets on this team that are gonna get us the help we need

unless you think Alex Burks or GR3 are gonna turn into championship level wing options


A combo forward is in not necessarily more valuable than a skilled guard.

It's supply and demand. A combo forward or wing defender realistically is a player with length and size that can guard 2-4, knock down outside shots and receive the ball slashing and finishing at the bucket. These players are far more common than the sort of guards our FO likes. We're not collecting midget guards that can pass, handle, shoot and score but can't defend. All our guards, except Curry, have size.

We have Curry at 6'3 but then we have D'lo at 6'5 with a 6'10 wingspan, Evans at 6'6 with a 6'9 wingspan, Poole at 6'6 with a 6'7 wingspan, Burks at 6'6 with a 6'10 wingspan. Clearly we're prioritizing these sorts of multi-skilled guards that also have the size to defend multiple positions, 1-3. So much so that we gave up Iguodala and two firsts for D'lo and used our last two first round picks on Evans and Poole. These guys will share time as the guards in two or three guard lineups.

Klay, McKinnie and Robinson aren't great ballhandlers or passers, they can shoot the three and finish decently to well at the bucket. But they are fundamentally different players than the five guys listed above. These eight players will share time at 1-3.

So I don't know what you mean when you say "3rd guard". D'lo is our second guard when you understand that our FO has very specific requirements. They need to be able to shoot, score, pass, handle the ball and have the size to defend multiple positions. That's not Klay.

As far as suffering due to a lack of wing defenders, with our switching heavy defensive system what's necessary is having enough guys with the size to guard on the perimeter and the eight guys listed above have that. The dirty work inside, including rebounding will be the responsibility of Draymond, WCS, Looney, Paschall, Spellman and Smailagic. Six guys for two positions.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#77 » by clyde21 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:37 am

Aaron Gordon > DLo, that's an easy yes for me

how about DLo/WCS for SGA/Adams?
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#78 » by Onus » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:21 am

clyde21 wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
1. that's gonna drain Klay physically

2. say we're playing OKC, who guards Gallo and who guards Russ?

we're essentially putting ourselves in a box here if the plan is to keep DLo long term. it doesn't make any sense on any level. you're not really maximizing anyone individually in this scenario.


I don't know what you're arguing anymore. OKC is who you're worried about?

Klay guards Russ, Curry guards Roberson, D'lo guards SGA, Dray guards Gallo, WCS guards Adams.

We might have some difficulty with the Clippers or the Lakers if they go big with Lebron as the PG but the vast majority of teams we matchup well against defensively. How are those teams that go big going to defend our 3 shooters on the perimeter? Is Lebron going to be chasing one of the splash triplets through screens all game? I doubt he's going to like that.

The reality is that the splash triplets are going to be forcing other teams to go smaller than they want to keep up on the perimeter. We're the ones that will be dictating tempo and matchups not the other team. And you want to trade away that advantage for a more conventional team build that opponents will have an easier time matching up against? :crazy:

The only team that gives me pause is the Clippers because they have the guard depth to move Kawhi to PF on Draymond but who isn't worried about the Clippers this year? Portland has been a perennial playoff team featuring Dame+CJ for years and Steph+D'lo are better defensively than that undersized duo. We're going to be great.


its pretty damn obvious what i'm 'arguing', doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand. i'm using OKC (Russ/Gallo) as an example but no I'm not 'worried' about OKC, it's just an example of seeing how that logic of Klay always guarding the best player is gonna work (it's not).

so, in order to force feed DLo on this team you're doing a few things:

1: you are breaking up the Splash Bros back court, which is important both defensively and offensively. offensively, you're putting a guard next to Steph that has no idea how to play off-ball and no idea how to set screens/picks, who's primarily a PnR player, essentially the antithesis of our system. defensively, you now have two guards in the back court that are not good on-ball defenders. the same problems you see defensively with the Blazers, for examples, you will start seeing here in the back court.

2: you are taking Klay out of his natural position...sure, Klay 'can' play the 3, but idealy in today's NBA that wing position has to be interchangeable with the 4 position, meaning Klay needs to also spend time in the paint guarding opposing 4s and will be asked to hit the boards more often...these are things Klay is not good at. it's not just about being able to cover the 3 (and Klay can cover some 3s, not all, really) but other things required of the wing position that Durant/Iggy are WAY better at than Klay ever has been.

3: to build on #2, what makes Klay a good defensively on ball is the size advantage he has defending lead or scoring guards...that size advantage shrinks when now all of the sudden you're asking him to defend 3s and 4s. so, in reality, in order to fit DLo on this team you are and will compromise the potential of both Steph and Klay to do so.

im not really sure what ur thought process here is. it's not just about getting talent. it's about fit. it's about maximizing every single player in their most optimal role. I am NOT ready to move Klay permanently to the 4 just because "We HaVe to KeEp DlO"...that is the epitome of dumb and it WILL backfire.

or...we can do the sensible thing here and approach this as an opportunity to flip DLo for legit assets/players at the wing so that Klay can go back to his infinitely more natural position because he's an infinitely better fit next to Steph in the back court...yea yea, crazy talk. :roll:

Why do you keep using the term wing to describe the 3/4 positions? What you’re really trying to say is that we need a legit 4 that can space the floor but also play defense and rebound. The problem is that Draymond is a 4 but he can’t shoot so he has to play 5 in our most potent lineups. That’s why you want a 4 that can rebound, play defense and shoot. That’s rarely a wing player.
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#79 » by cdubbz » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:04 am

I really hope DLO works for us and absolutely kills it. Curry, Klay, Dlo, Green is nice on offense and decent on defense. DLO is so versatile and opponents will need to adjust to guard our 3 wings
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Re: DLO trade thread 

Post#80 » by whatisacenter » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:29 am

cdubbz wrote:I really hope DLO works for us and absolutely kills it. Curry, Klay, Dlo, Green is nice on offense and decent on defense. DLO is so versatile and opponents will need to adjust to guard our 3 wings


Annnnnnd, this past season when Curry was off the floor our offense really suffered. Always being able to have Curry or D Lo on the court to run it will really help the second unit.
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