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Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core?

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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#41 » by Mylie10 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:11 pm

BigRedDog wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:
Klay's steep decline? As someone that's watched 90% of Warriors games the last 10 years or so, Klay played the best basketball of his career last season. His shot selection is better than it's ever been and the only reason his 3pt% took a dip is because he had a bad start but he finished very strong. Defensively he was our best perimeter defender, surpassing Iguodala last season which is why they ended up putting him on Kawhi in the finals. He's in the prime of his career physically and skills-wise. I think you move him to SF because he's got the strength and discipline to make the best SFs in the league work for shots without getting in excessive foul trouble and that's probably a better use of his abilities than making him chase the quick PGs. Going forward I think D'lo will be as good as anyone on our team staying in front of PGs even if he's not able to shut them down.



Agree to disagree on klay last season. But we both agree SF is the right position. If he makes a smooth transition there like i think he can then ill concede the warriors issues defensively were more scheme related and fish being asked to play out of water than simply personnel


I want to ask you specifically about your comment of Klays STEEP DECLINE.

Can you elaborate on why you think that? Also what is your home team for basketball? I'm genuinely just curious on your opinion and not trying to call you out or anything.

The only thing I think I could point to last season was his early shooting troubles. It had nothing to do with being tired. Anyone who has watched Klay over the years knows he's a very streaky player.

I also want to point out that his injuries weren't really related to being tired, imo, the hamstring was from a slide of his feet and the knee injury from an awkward landing.

I don't doubt that all of our main group got tired over these last 5 years, but I don't think Klay specifically was adversely affected by it.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#42 » by BigRedDog » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:18 pm

Mylie10 wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:
Klay's steep decline? As someone that's watched 90% of Warriors games the last 10 years or so, Klay played the best basketball of his career last season. His shot selection is better than it's ever been and the only reason his 3pt% took a dip is because he had a bad start but he finished very strong. Defensively he was our best perimeter defender, surpassing Iguodala last season which is why they ended up putting him on Kawhi in the finals. He's in the prime of his career physically and skills-wise. I think you move him to SF because he's got the strength and discipline to make the best SFs in the league work for shots without getting in excessive foul trouble and that's probably a better use of his abilities than making him chase the quick PGs. Going forward I think D'lo will be as good as anyone on our team staying in front of PGs even if he's not able to shut them down.



Agree to disagree on klay last season. But we both agree SF is the right position. If he makes a smooth transition there like i think he can then ill concede the warriors issues defensively were more scheme related and fish being asked to play out of water than simply personnel


I want to ask you specifically about your comment of Klays STEEP DECLINE.

Can you elaborate on why you think that? Also what is your home team for basketball? I'm genuinely just curious on your opinion and not trying to call you out or anything.

The only thing I think I could point to last season was his early shooting troubles. It had nothing to do with being tired. Anyone who has watched Klay over the years knows he's a very streaky player.

I also want to point out that his injuries weren't really related to being tired, imo, the hamstring was from a slide of his feet and the knee injury from an awkward landing.

I don't doubt that all of our main group got tired over these last 5 years, but I don't think Klay specifically was adversely affected by it.


I mean Klay has never been an analytical "darling" or anything but virtually any metric out there shows klay having a tough season all around. He's not worthless or anything but he's nowhere near a max player, or at least has nowhere near the on the court impact of a max player...

I guess i feel like we'll get a pretty good idea of what the warriors are like sans klay this year and when he comes back late in the season id be fairly surprised if he makes any real noticeable impact to make the warriors better..... he's a bit of a role player to begin with and he's an aging one coming off injury now.


Again, ive never thought klay was quite as bad a defender as the numbers show these last few years... i think he's just asked to play out of posiiton a lot and done a relatively adequate job all things considered... but i think it's time to go to a more conventional style of defense now that he's older, injured, and the warriors dont have iggy and draymond is perhaps no longer able to play at a DPOY level over the course of the regular season..
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#43 » by xdrta+ » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:24 pm

BigRedDog wrote:i forgot about WCS.... great pickup... the Warriors have a 3-headed monster now at center that's better than they've ever had in their title run.

They really just need to find that floor spacing 4... which isnt that hard to do... even a guy like Hairy Beans thrived in that role... I think Alfie Mckenzie is probably the best hope. Guy showed he could splash, he's athletic, and he can fill out a pair of overalls. That's who I'd bank on to step up next season. He seems like a system player that could thrive when he gets comfortably numb out there.


So you think Klay had a steep decline which left him an aging role player, and Looney is the most underrated player in the league. Did you even watch a Warrior game last year? Because it doesn't sound like it.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#44 » by BigRedDog » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:30 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:i forgot about WCS.... great pickup... the Warriors have a 3-headed monster now at center that's better than they've ever had in their title run.

They really just need to find that floor spacing 4... which isnt that hard to do... even a guy like Hairy Beans thrived in that role... I think Alfie Mckenzie is probably the best hope. Guy showed he could splash, he's athletic, and he can fill out a pair of overalls. That's who I'd bank on to step up next season. He seems like a system player that could thrive when he gets comfortably numb out there.


So you think Klay had a steep decline which left him an aging role player, and Looney is the most underrated player in the league. Did you even watch a Warrior game last year? Because it doesn't sound like it.


I mean its impossible to reallyl argue underrated/overrated but im willing to bet most people didnt notice his ascension to being amongst the elite centers last year...
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#45 » by Mylie10 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Regardless of the crappy defensive metrics used around the league for defense, I can tell you that Klay is an amazing defender, and all through last season as well.

He is way more than a role player. He is an anchor. The reason for team slippage last season had more to do with being in the finals and playing almost 82 extra games versus the rest of the league. And Klay wasn't the one dogging it. Some others who shall be nameless had some regression for one reason or another and the looming cloud of KD had a negative overall feel to it.

You are way barking up the wrong tree buddy
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#46 » by HiRez » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:21 pm

I am not really buying into the Klay as SF solution, I think that’s going to be problematic. He’s going to get steamrolled by LeBron, KD, Kawhi, etc. and meanwhile it’s taking him out of his much more natural SG position where his size gives him a massive advantage on both sides of the court.

I hope I’m wrong but I think it’s sub-optimal to say the least and I think Klay will inevitably end up back at SG.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#47 » by thinkingwarriors » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:43 pm

Mylie10 wrote:Regardless of the crappy defensive metrics used around the league for defense, I can tell you that Klay is an amazing defender, and all through last season as well.

He is way more than a role player. He is an anchor. The reason for team slippage last season had more to do with being in the finals and playing almost 82 extra games versus the rest of the league. And Klay wasn't the one dogging it. Some others who shall be nameless had some regression for one reason or another and the looming cloud of KD had a negative overall feel to it.

You are way barking up the wrong tree buddy


Probably most non-Warriors fans missed it but the #1 reason we made it to the Finals, particularly after we lost KD, was because of the defense of Klay, Dray and Iggy. Those 3 were the true "core" of our team because of a defensive aggression I would refer to as "wolfish". They were like a pack of predators, communicating and cooperating to corner and take down their prey. Losing Iggy is tough but he's the (only) one on the downside of his career and so I think we can adjust. Hopefully D'lo learns to use his length and intelligence to become an equally predatory defender.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#48 » by thinkingwarriors » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:46 pm

HiRez wrote:I am not really buying into the Klay as SF solution, I think that’s going to be problematic. He’s going to get steamrolled by LeBron, KD, Kawhi, etc. and meanwhile it’s taking him out of his much more natural SG position where his size gives him a massive advantage on both sides of the court.

I hope I’m wrong but I think it’s sub-optimal to say the least and I think Klay will inevitably end up back at SG.


Klay has a very strong lower base. He won't be shutting down Lebron/Kawhi/KD but he will force them to manufacture every shot. He is so disciplined with his footwork and ability to ignore pump and up fakes that he'll make them earn it and stay out of foul trouble.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#49 » by xdrta+ » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:24 pm

BigRedDog wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:i forgot about WCS.... great pickup... the Warriors have a 3-headed monster now at center that's better than they've ever had in their title run.

They really just need to find that floor spacing 4... which isnt that hard to do... even a guy like Hairy Beans thrived in that role... I think Alfie Mckenzie is probably the best hope. Guy showed he could splash, he's athletic, and he can fill out a pair of overalls. That's who I'd bank on to step up next season. He seems like a system player that could thrive when he gets comfortably numb out there.


So you think Klay had a steep decline which left him an aging role player, and Looney is the most underrated player in the league. Did you even watch a Warrior game last year? Because it doesn't sound like it.


I mean its impossible to reallyl argue underrated/overrated but im willing to bet most people didnt notice his ascension to being amongst the elite centers last year...


"Elite center" is a huge overreach. He hustles, he gets offensive rebounds, he can switch out on pick and rolls, but the bottom line is, he's an undersized center who can't shoot. That's the reason no one beat a $5M a year offer from the Warriors, not that 29 GMs underrated him.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#50 » by Mylie10 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:34 am

thinkingwarriors wrote:
HiRez wrote:I am not really buying into the Klay as SF solution, I think that’s going to be problematic. He’s going to get steamrolled by LeBron, KD, Kawhi, etc. and meanwhile it’s taking him out of his much more natural SG position where his size gives him a massive advantage on both sides of the court.

I hope I’m wrong but I think it’s sub-optimal to say the least and I think Klay will inevitably end up back at SG.


Klay has a very strong lower base. He won't be shutting down Lebron/Kawhi/KD but he will force them to manufacture every shot. He is so disciplined with his footwork and ability to ignore pump and up fakes that he'll make them earn it and stay out of foul trouble.


You guys.....seriously..... MATCHUPS!

Depending on who we play, it will shift the matchups. So if we are playing a team that has size at small forward we will adapt accordingly. Paschall and Draymond ate mobile enough to handle the bigger matchup. And Klay already proved he can guard Kawhi at least decently.

Don't forget we often have Steph guarding small forwards and bigs at times because they often stand in the corner. Also don't forget that small forwards will have to chase Klay around.

Don Nelson always counted on the fact that smalls beat bigs in the short term. We just need to rebound the damn ball and that's one of the reasons I like McKinnie.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#51 » by BigRedDog » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:15 am

xdrta+ wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
So you think Klay had a steep decline which left him an aging role player, and Looney is the most underrated player in the league. Did you even watch a Warrior game last year? Because it doesn't sound like it.


I mean its impossible to reallyl argue underrated/overrated but im willing to bet most people didnt notice his ascension to being amongst the elite centers last year...


"Elite center" is a huge overreach. He hustles, he gets offensive rebounds, he can switch out on pick and rolls, but the bottom line is, he's an undersized center who can't shoot. That's the reason no one beat a $5M a year offer from the Warriors, not that 29 GMs underrated him.


i dont think so, sure seems like those 29 GM's made the same mistake they did last offseason. and very few teams are trrying to blow money at center these days
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#52 » by DAWill1128 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:02 am

A lot of media are wondering how we can play a two ball handler lineup, isn't that what we were when we had Jarrett Jack? We were pretty good and the core was really inexperienced. Size wise our perimeter is bigger than the Rockets, Blazers, and Nuggets who were the three best teams last year in the Western Conference.

I think the strategy is to let D-Lo be a high usage guy, let the young guys play to see if they can gain some value. As I look around the NBA you don't have a lot of guys better than D-Lo at this point, he is a recent emergence so he's as highly perceived as guys of similar talent level. If D-Lo takes the next step which to me would be improvement playing off ball and as a team defender I am not certain who would be better that you can get.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#53 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:04 pm

Klay's defense is great but it doesn't show in the common defensive metrics. If you look at his ability to be around his man and challenge shots, and the reduction in number of shots his man takes his defense is exceptional. He's not much of a team defender and his defensive metrics are hurt by his leaking out for scoring over rebounding.

He's "worth" the max to many teams in the NBA, and even more to the Warriors in that they can't replace him.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#54 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:21 pm

DAWill1128 wrote:A lot of media are wondering how we can play a two ball handler lineup, isn't that what we were when we had Jarrett Jack? We were pretty good and the core was really inexperienced. Size wise our perimeter is bigger than the Rockets, Blazers, and Nuggets who were the three best teams last year in the Western Conference.

I think the strategy is to let D-Lo be a high usage guy, let the young guys play to see if they can gain some value. As I look around the NBA you don't have a lot of guys better than D-Lo at this point, he is a recent emergence so he's as highly perceived as guys of similar talent level. If D-Lo takes the next step which to me would be improvement playing off ball and as a team defender I am not certain who would be better that you can get.


The Warriors have thrived with multiple ball handlers since Kerr took over. The ball moves, each player moves with the ball and without the ball to create opportunities for their teammates. If Russell doesn't do that it will be awkward, but there is no reason to think he won't mesh with the team concept.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#55 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:58 pm

Warriors got Draymond in the 2nd round. Spurs got Tony Parker, and Manu with late draft picks. Spurs made a smart trade to draft Kawhi. Spurs won the trade for the Kawhi draft pick. How were the Spurs smarter or luckier than other teams? Did they pay more scouts?

The Warriors are still within striking distance of a championshi; they just need to be smart and lucky.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#56 » by xdrta+ » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:33 pm

SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:Warriors got Draymond in the 2nd round. Spurs got Tony Parker, and Manu with late draft picks. Spurs made a smart trade to draft Kawhi. Spurs won the trade for the Kawhi draft pick. How were the Spurs smarter or luckier than other teams? Did they pay more scouts?

The Warriors are still within striking distance of a championshi; they just need to be smart and lucky.


When you're talking about 2nd round draft picks, lucky is the key. There are hundreds of 2nd round picks out of work, and a few that became stars. Better to be lucky than smart.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#57 » by killmongrel » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:25 am

I was looking at possible players who are on teams who'd like to get them off their books, but I just don't see many candidates for candidates that the TPE can be used on. Things can change though from now and next summer. But some of the players I was looking at were people like Adams and Batum. It's just too bad their salaries are so much.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#58 » by azwfan » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:58 am

killmongrel wrote:I was looking at possible players who are on teams who'd like to get them off their books, but I just don't see many candidates for candidates that the TPE can be used on. Things can change though from now and next summer. But some of the players I was looking at were people like Adams and Batum. It's just too bad their salaries are so much.


Different ways we can look to use the TPE.

1) Provide salary relief for another team in order to gain assets (player / draft pick).
2) Use to assist in a 3-way trade to take on salary - for asset.
3) Add incentive (like a pick) to get a player without needing to match salary.
4) Use in a trade to create a new TPE for more options later. Not appropriate for a "keep D'Lo thread", and not saying i want to do this, but an example of such a trade would be to trade D'Lo on July 6 to Minnesota for Covington. Use the TPE to absorb Covington's salary. D'Lo goes to Minnesota and we create a $28M TPE for another year - a year where we are not hard capped. In such a scenario, we could even take on a little more salary with the Iguodala TPE (5M ish).

Edit: There is another option. We could Cohan it. Some of us have been around long enough to know what that is. Lets hope it doesn't come to that. At least with current ownership we don't expect us to do that... but its still a possibility. :cry:
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#59 » by azwfan » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:05 am

As for just taking on a player, my guess is that we'll be looking at Dion Waiters or Kelly Olynk (assuming he opts in) if the Heat are looking to get another FA. They could look at Montrez Harrell or maybe a bigger name. Really difficult to know now cause there's no telling where the crazy season will take us.
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Re: Say, we go forward with DLo and Draymond, how do you build a team around this core? 

Post#60 » by killmongrel » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:18 am

azwfan wrote:
killmongrel wrote:I was looking at possible players who are on teams who'd like to get them off their books, but I just don't see many candidates for candidates that the TPE can be used on. Things can change though from now and next summer. But some of the players I was looking at were people like Adams and Batum. It's just too bad their salaries are so much.


Different ways we can look to use the TPE.

1) Provide salary relief for another team in order to gain assets (player / draft pick).
2) Use to assist in a 3-way trade to take on salary - for asset.
3) Add incentive (like a pick) to get a player without needing to match salary.
4) Use in a trade to create a new TPE for more options later. Not appropriate for a "keep D'Lo thread", and not saying i want to do this, but an example of such a trade would be to trade D'Lo on July 6 to Minnesota for Covington. Use the TPE to absorb Covington's salary. D'Lo goes to Minnesota and we create a $28M TPE for another year - a year where we are not hard capped. In such a scenario, we could even take on a little more salary with the Iguodala TPE (5M ish).
Hey, thanks for the info. It's really useful to learn more about these type of things.

But I must say, I personally think the Ws value DLo more than getting more TPE. If they trade DLo, it would really be for a player they like. Covington is nice, but the thought of getting him, while getting rid of DLo, just to get more of the TPE for the following year just seems like a delay in the Warriors championship window. Unless they think they can set themselves up for a super star in the summer of 21, I just don't know if they go this route. To me, I think they either go forward with DLo, or they trade him for a player they can win now. The TPE strategy is just so shaky to me. It's about finding the right player and situation. I wouldn't want to risk it.

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