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Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year.

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Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#1 » by killmongrel » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:04 am

The more I think about it, I don't see how our bench this year performs worse than last year. Yes, overall, no bench benefits losing a player like Iguodala. But I think there's enough talent on the bench that they can come close to what he usually brings during the regular season. It's his presence in the closing lineups and in the post season that we will miss him.

Not only do I think the bench will be better offensively, I think it's better defensively as well. Yep, call me crazy, but the variables make sense for me to proclaim this.

- Young players who can step up and replicate the offensive, and maybe defensive output of Iguodala and Shaun without the time management. Burks, Robinson, and even Omari Spellman are better scoring options than Shaun, Bell, and even Jerebko. Their defense should be on par as well. It's Iguodala that we need a player to step up for. And I think that player is Evans. At least defensively. Iguodala wasn't much of an offensive player his last few years, outside of a few games here and there, but I think Evans can at least be a lite version of him.

- No more Quinn Cook means possibly more minutes for Lee. We will be using the hell out of Lee these first few months without Klay. He and Burks could be the main scoring options off the bench. And like I've posted a few times before, Lee's and Cook's impact on the team were similar. Difference is, Lee has the ability to get better as a defensive player.

- Some of the most impactful bench players are still here. Looney is going to be the Warriors 6th man going forward and can only get better as player. Only Iguodala can be viewed as a more important bench player last year. And due to age, he might surpass Iguodala as a player this year. The other player that is still here is McKinnie. Yeah, he stunk it up in the second half of the season. But if he's able to replicate what he did for the Warriors last season in the first half, it's a wash.

- We will actually play our rookies this year. Everybody gets put to the fire this season. Sure, we probably won't see as much of Smailagic compared to the others, but the Warriors drafted players that are ready to contribute. Poole might not be ready defensively, but I can see him scoring. I'm so confident in Paschall, that he might not be a bench player and could be starting early in the season. He has the ability to provide the team with defense at the 4 and maybe the 3, as well as hit open shots.

So there you go. I fully believe that this bench is better on paper. And it will translate to the court. Just worried about the lack of leadership and experience, but I don't think it will be too much of a problem.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#2 » by giberish » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:03 am

The bench should be more interesting then last year, but it's a big reach to expect it to be better.

They'll have to do more, so for counting stats it will look better, but that's not the same as actually being better. And the big problem is how much more they'll have to do. Last year the team had Curry/Klay/KD/Green/Iggy and sort-of Livingston as clearly above-replacement level players to cover non-center minutes. Now it's just Curry/Russell and Green for most of the year. So even at full health there's 90 minutes needed from guys who project as roughly replacement-level. And 120+ mpg if anyone's out injured. If they really are replacement-level that's a lot of poor play for a few guys to overcome.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#3 » by likemycurryhot » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:15 pm

Going out on a limb here but I think I agree with the OP. Andre is a big loss but mostly due to his playoff value and leadership. I'm hoping that the minutes he frees up for the young guys will be a sort of counter balance to that in terms of long-term value. Beyond that Jonas, Shaun, and Bell were pretty much useless for large stretches of the season and certainly during the playoffs. Cook had some nice offensive contributions but is inconsistent and very limited defensively. Like a lot of other fans here I have an emotional connection to all of them for being contributors to the dynasty. However, their future value to the team was pretty dicey offensively and, outside of Bell who still has huge mental lapses, they are all defensive liabilities.

It certainly remains to be seen but I'm willing to put faith on youthful energy and hope that WCS can blossom and deliver on the potential he had when he was drafted. Also, if McKinnie and and Evans show significant improvement it will go a long way towards having a reliable rotation.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#4 » by Scoots1994 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:49 pm

It will be tough for the bench to be worse on offense, and tough for them to be better on defense.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#5 » by Samurai » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:51 pm

Our bench might be comparable to last season in the regular season; better on offense but not as good on defense. The challenge will be the playoffs, which is where Iggy really shines. Even if our young guys like Evans, who is probably the closest reserve we have to Andre on defense (which alone says a lot about the dropoff), can take a step forward, it is likely way too much to ask that he shine in the playoffs when the lights are brighter. I think that our young guys (Poole, Paschall, Smiley, Spellman, etc) have a bright future but expecting that they will be good enough to be solid contributors this year may be overly optimistic.

But they could be very valuable contributors next year.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#6 » by Mylie10 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:30 pm

Better on offense. Just more guys that can shoot and score, duh.

But defensively you can't replace Iguodala's defense. It's elite. Livingston's defense has suffered the last few, but still probably better than guys like Poole, Lee, etc. At least for now.

Paschall should be a decent defender, and we still have Looney, who's an excellent defender. Not sure Spellman will help much there or not right now. Burks might be good on that end, but I need to see it. Robinson has the tools, but who knows. Smiley? No way, not now at least. Down the road he should be fine. Evans can defend, and I expect him to be decent.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#7 » by thinkingwarriors » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:37 pm

Iguodala's defense fell off last season. Still good but in the playoffs Klay was definitely the more impactful perimeter defender between the two for the first time ever. I think Evans will be a fantastic defender. Very strong core, even though his 6'9 wingspan is good not great, he'll be able to stay in front of bigger, stronger players because of his strong trunk. I know I'm his biggest proponent but I think Evans will be a stalwart off the bench for us for years.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#8 » by Money_ » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:53 pm

I think they may actually score more points than last year's bench.
But at the beginning of the fourth quarter in a tight game, when Steph and co need a breather, will they have the same poise?
In those situations is where you'll see the biggest difference.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#9 » by killmongrel » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:35 pm

Money_ wrote:I think they may actually score more points than last year's bench.
But at the beginning of the fourth quarter in a tight game, when Steph and co need a breather, will they have the same poise?
In those situations is where you'll see the biggest difference.


I'm definitely not arguing they have a better team overall. Just that they have a better bench this year. They will miss Iguodala for those big moments.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#10 » by Money_ » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:58 pm

killmongrel wrote:
Money_ wrote:I think they may actually score more points than last year's bench.
But at the beginning of the fourth quarter in a tight game, when Steph and co need a breather, will they have the same poise?
In those situations is where you'll see the biggest difference.


I'm definitely not arguing they have a better team overall. Just that they have a better bench this year. They will miss Iguodala for those big moments.


It's a good chance that 2-3 of those guys will be more aggressive and hungry for buckets that's for sure. But we will struggle defensively, it won't be pretty, initially. But this is where Kerr will really get a chance to coach.

Speaking of last year's bench, any word on Igoudala yet? Currently still on Memphis?
And I've heard nothing about Livingston. Where might he land?
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#11 » by xdrta+ » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:49 pm

Money_ wrote:
killmongrel wrote:
Money_ wrote:I think they may actually score more points than last year's bench.
But at the beginning of the fourth quarter in a tight game, when Steph and co need a breather, will they have the same poise?
In those situations is where you'll see the biggest difference.


I'm definitely not arguing they have a better team overall. Just that they have a better bench this year. They will miss Iguodala for those big moments.


It's a good chance that 2-3 of those guys will be more aggressive and hungry for buckets that's for sure. But we will struggle defensively, it won't be pretty, initially. But this is where Kerr will really get a chance to coach.

Speaking of last year's bench, any word on Igoudala yet? Currently still on Memphis?
And I've heard nothing about Livingston. Where might he land?


I think Memphis figured they could buy out Iguodala at a discount, which shows they didn't know him very well. Remember how he squeezed the Warriors for that contract? He's not giving up a chunk of it. As for being anxious to sign on with a contender, like most guys might, he's got 3 rings in his pocket. I bet he'll be satisfied to spend the season with Memphis, collect his $17M, and be a FA next summer, if he feels like playing again. As for Livingston, maybe some contender will sign him for the playoffs, but I don't think anyone was too impressed with his play last season.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#12 » by killmongrel » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:08 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
Money_ wrote:
killmongrel wrote:
I'm definitely not arguing they have a better team overall. Just that they have a better bench this year. They will miss Iguodala for those big moments.


It's a good chance that 2-3 of those guys will be more aggressive and hungry for buckets that's for sure. But we will struggle defensively, it won't be pretty, initially. But this is where Kerr will really get a chance to coach.

Speaking of last year's bench, any word on Igoudala yet? Currently still on Memphis?
And I've heard nothing about Livingston. Where might he land?


I think Memphis figured they could buy out Iguodala at a discount, which shows they didn't know him very well. Remember how he squeezed the Warriors for that contract? He's not giving up a chunk of it. As for being anxious to sign on with a contender, like most guys might, he's got 3 rings in his pocket. I bet he'll be satisfied to spend the season with Memphis, collect his $17M, and be a FA next summer, if he feels like playing again. As for Livingston, maybe some contender will sign him for the playoffs, but I don't think anyone was too impressed with his play last season.


I agree. Hehe. Iguodala is more than content chilling with Memphis unless they either trade him, or give him a huge chunk of that contract to buy him out.

Speaking as a Warriors fan, I hope he chills the whole season and comes back to the Warriors next summer. But it'll depend on how much he still thinks he's worth and if he's willing to take a team friendly deal or the vet. minimum.

Also, and this is a out there idea, I'm not so sure that Livingston is done in terms of being a quality player. Imagine if he takes the whole year off. Would that be what he needs to really re-energize his career. We're talking about a guy who isn't really that old. And, aside from the major injury he suffered early in his career, has been relatively healthy. His decline is definitely his body aging faster than others due to his history, but it can also be argued that the past 5 years have taken a toll on his body even with his minutes being managed. A year off could possibly be what he needs to be a good contributing player again. And if that's the case, I wouldn't shut the door on his return to the Warriors IF we don't find anything else better for a deep bench player. It's unlikely, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#13 » by Mylie10 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:10 am

Livingston said that dealing with his knee issues this year has been extremely tough. Tough just getting it game ready.

His head might be in a different space as time passes if his knees get back to feeling good.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#14 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:41 am

thinkingwarriors wrote:Iguodala's defense fell off last season. Still good but in the playoffs Klay was definitely the more impactful perimeter defender between the two for the first time ever. I think Evans will be a fantastic defender. Very strong core, even though his 6'9 wingspan is good not great, he'll be able to stay in front of bigger, stronger players because of his strong trunk. I know I'm his biggest proponent but I think Evans will be a stalwart off the bench for us for years.


I think people calling Evans "trash" were wildly pessimistic because his primary talents don't show up until he's on the floor with 4 other good players. I think it's completely reasonable he could be the 2nd best defender on the Warriors this season, but it will be because of his team game and it won't show in any box score ... much like Iguodala. That said, he's going to have some issues adjusting to the players, the plays, and the refs ... so I fully expect him to struggle, and if he loses his confidence he could go in the tank.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#15 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:41 am

Money_ wrote:I think they may actually score more points than last year's bench.
But at the beginning of the fourth quarter in a tight game, when Steph and co need a breather, will they have the same poise?
In those situations is where you'll see the biggest difference.


I expect Russel to be on the floor for those minutes.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#16 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:47 am

Mylie10 wrote:Livingston said that dealing with his knee issues this year has been extremely tough. Tough just getting it game ready.

His head might be in a different space as time passes if his knees get back to feeling good.


Late last year he talked about looking forward to retirement just because he spends so much time in game prep and game recovery. I hope he calls it a career and joins the Warriors as a player development assistant.

I hope Iguodala comes back to take over as the DC for Adams (when he chooses to retire).
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#17 » by Warriorfan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:39 am

I think it's a reach to say a bunch of rookies will be better than seasoned vets especially in the playoffs
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#18 » by Samurai » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:56 am

Scoots1994 wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:Iguodala's defense fell off last season. Still good but in the playoffs Klay was definitely the more impactful perimeter defender between the two for the first time ever. I think Evans will be a fantastic defender. Very strong core, even though his 6'9 wingspan is good not great, he'll be able to stay in front of bigger, stronger players because of his strong trunk. I know I'm his biggest proponent but I think Evans will be a stalwart off the bench for us for years.


I think people calling Evans "trash" were wildly pessimistic because his primary talents don't show up until he's on the floor with 4 other good players. I think it's completely reasonable he could be the 2nd best defender on the Warriors this season, but it will be because of his team game and it won't show in any box score ... much like Iguodala. That said, he's going to have some issues adjusting to the players, the plays, and the refs ... so I fully expect him to struggle, and if he loses his confidence he could go in the tank.

Assuming you believe Draymond will be our best defender, are you of the mindset that Evans will be better than both Looney and Klay when he returns? Or just better than Looney while Klay is out?

The other guy I am cautiously hopeful for on defense is GR3. When he was on Indiana, he often guarded the other team's best player similar to what the Dubs do with Klay. If McKinnie continues to struggle defensively, I would expect Kerr to give GR3 a shot to see if he can make a defensive contribution against a scoring wing.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#19 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:00 am

Warriorfan wrote:I think it's a reach to say a bunch of rookies will be better than seasoned vets especially in the playoffs


On defense? Yes. On offense? No. The bench's offensive production was terrible last year, and this year they didn't just add rookies.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#20 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:03 am

Samurai wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:Iguodala's defense fell off last season. Still good but in the playoffs Klay was definitely the more impactful perimeter defender between the two for the first time ever. I think Evans will be a fantastic defender. Very strong core, even though his 6'9 wingspan is good not great, he'll be able to stay in front of bigger, stronger players because of his strong trunk. I know I'm his biggest proponent but I think Evans will be a stalwart off the bench for us for years.


I think people calling Evans "trash" were wildly pessimistic because his primary talents don't show up until he's on the floor with 4 other good players. I think it's completely reasonable he could be the 2nd best defender on the Warriors this season, but it will be because of his team game and it won't show in any box score ... much like Iguodala. That said, he's going to have some issues adjusting to the players, the plays, and the refs ... so I fully expect him to struggle, and if he loses his confidence he could go in the tank.

Assuming you believe Draymond will be our best defender, are you of the mindset that Evans will be better than both Looney and Klay when he returns? Or just better than Looney while Klay is out?

The other guy I am cautiously hopeful for on defense is GR3. When he was on Indiana, he often guarded the other team's best player similar to what the Dubs do with Klay. If McKinnie continues to struggle defensively, I would expect Kerr to give GR3 a shot to see if he can make a defensive contribution against a scoring wing.


I think Klay is a very good man defender, but his team defense is just okay. Evans can, I think, be a MUCH better team defender than Klay and may come close as a man defender.

I have no idea what happened to GR3 ... his game fell apart on both ends.

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