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Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record.

Moderators: floppymoose, Sleepy51, Chris Porter's Hair

Will the Warriors be a success with Wiggins next year (WCF or Chip)

Yes
59
57%
No
44
43%
 
Total votes: 103

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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#141 » by migya » Fri May 15, 2020 11:09 am

I think it's important for the FO to pull off a trade of Wiggins and the two lottery picks coming up before the draft. Seems like lottery picks are more highly valued before the player is picked in the draft.

The rumours of getting Giannis seem to be pretty common now and once the future of what will happen with the season and so forth is established going for that trade should be a priority.

Wiggins, the Warriors' lottery pick (likely top 3), Minnesota's lottery pick next draft and Pascal is a very good package for a very good player. I'd like Jimmy Butler but Miami won't give him up likely. Maybe Giannis would be gettable for that.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#142 » by ILOVEIT » Fri May 15, 2020 4:02 pm

I was watching First Take and they were saying Warriors only need that 20 point a night small forward to put them back on top again...huh? It's really weird to listen to them completely ignore that they have Wiggins now. They say "Curry, Klay....Green...Warriors need one more guy...20 point a night guy." I'm like...THEY HAVE HIM! lol
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#143 » by vagelis » Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:08 am

Wiggins works with Chris Johnson and his stuff for second year this summer.
From what I have seen so far, Chris Johnson seems a very good trainer

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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#144 » by Scoots1994 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:15 pm

As amazing as it seems people seem to think that Draymond from last year is the best he's got left. They don't realize that he was intentionally not being his normal self. He said it early in the year that Kerr had asked him to change the way he played and the way he talked on the court. Kerr wanted him to leave more room for the other players to step up, help them learn to play team and individual defense and not try to push them as hard and not try to cover everything up the way he usually does. No doubt his game will likely falter faster than Steph or Klay, but peak Dray is still available.

Add to that that they assume Wiggins is baseline Minny Wiggins and that he won't get any better with better coaching, a better system, and better teammates, while also getting away from the pressure of the expectations in Minny.

The Warriors, if they can fill some of their roster holes and the younger guys make a step forward from where they were and they can stay healthy, there is no reason they shouldn't be contenders.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#145 » by ILOVEIT » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:47 pm

Those that think Draymond is going to show up fat and lazy next year....don't get it. In fact it's just lazy observations (duh...he not scoring and Warriors losing so ...duh)

Draymond WILL BE THE MOST MOTIVATED HE HAS EVER BEEN to PROVE to Durant THAT THE WARRIORS DON'T NEED HIM!

Curry, Green, Wiggins, Green...that core is enough to win the chip IMO (I'm putting down a grand on that believe btw)

BUT...I would love the Warriors to land Marc Gasol and one other vet to go along with the draft pick.
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#146 » by Scoots1994 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:03 am

ILOVEIT wrote:Those that think Draymond is going to show up fat and lazy next year....don't get it. In fact it's just lazy observations (duh...he not scoring and Warriors losing so ...duh)

Draymond WILL BE THE MOST MOTIVATED HE HAS EVER BEEN to PROVE to Durant THAT THE WARRIORS DON'T NEED HIM!

Curry, Green, Wiggins, Green...that core is enough to win the chip IMO (I'm putting down a grand on that believe btw)

BUT...I would love the Warriors to land Marc Gasol and one other vet to go along with the draft pick.


Gasol would be ideal. 12ish minutes a night during the regular season to keep him healthy then critical minutes down the stretch.

Would also love to add a smart vet wing/point to lead the 2nd unit.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#147 » by azwfan » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:46 am

ILOVEIT wrote:Those that think Draymond is going to show up fat and lazy next year....don't get it. In fact it's just lazy observations (duh...he not scoring and Warriors losing so ...duh)

Draymond WILL BE THE MOST MOTIVATED HE HAS EVER BEEN to PROVE to Durant THAT THE WARRIORS DON'T NEED HIM!

Curry, Green, Wiggins, Green...that core is enough to win the chip IMO (I'm putting down a grand on that believe btw)

BUT...I would love the Warriors to land Marc Gasol and one other vet to go along with the draft pick.

It may be enough to win, but that doesn't mean they'll pull it off. A grand is a grand. I'm pulling for you!
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#148 » by gst8 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:38 am

Not that social media is the most reliable source but Draymond is posting his workouts on almost a daily basis. I expect a revenge tour next season.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#149 » by B-King » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:13 am

gst8 wrote:Not that social media is the most reliable source but Draymond is posting his workouts on almost a daily basis. I expect a revenge tour next season.


I think he has a couple more peak years in him and we'll see where it goes from there. When he does slide, it will be pretty dramatic as his lack of height and thick frame will catch up with him. His basketball IQ might carry him a couple years two after the wear and tear start to set.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#150 » by ahmetmekin » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:07 am

Dray can and will be better compared to 19-20 season but even a motivated Dray was like the 8th best player in the 2019 finals. I don't see a good reason to be optimistic about Dray's performance.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#151 » by Little Digger » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:33 pm

In the smallest of games, Green almost always disappoints..You can’t rely on him unless the games matter..Time for him to go..
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#152 » by thinkingwarriors » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:51 pm

ahmetmekin wrote:Dray can and will be better compared to 19-20 season but even a motivated Dray was like the 8th best player in the 2019 finals. I don't see a good reason to be optimistic about Dray's performance.


8th best player? How could you possibly rationalize that? Please name the 7 players better than him.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#153 » by B-King » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:47 pm

Little Digger wrote:In the smallest of games, Green almost always disappoints..You can’t rely on him unless the games matter..Time for him to go..


Draymond doesn't have much value to other teams. Maybe a mid to late first if you have extra picks at best.

Who would really want him outside of Detroit? Phoenix could use him there, but Dray going to the Suns would take some of the dog out of him. Hanging out with CB34 all the time.

His salary will be a problem. He is our third best player and we pay him like our 4th best player. Most teams won't pay for a second coach / culture player unless it is on the bargain.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#154 » by Onus » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:37 am

B-King wrote:
Little Digger wrote:In the smallest of games, Green almost always disappoints..You can’t rely on him unless the games matter..Time for him to go..


Draymond doesn't have much value to other teams. Maybe a mid to late first if you have extra picks at best.

Who would really want him outside of Detroit? Phoenix could use him there, but Dray going to the Suns would take some of the dog out of him. Hanging out with CB34 all the time.

His salary will be a problem. He is our third best player and we pay him like our 4th best player. Most teams won't pay for a second coach / culture player unless it is on the bargain.

We used to pay a premium for those “culture changer” fa. I’m sure there’s a few gms (1 maybe 2) out there that would take dray as a championship vet to turn a corner. Unlikely but all you need is 1. Draymond is actually really hard to build around because he’s essentially a 5 but can’t play there full time.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#155 » by ahmetmekin » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:01 am

thinkingwarriors wrote:
ahmetmekin wrote:Dray can and will be better compared to 19-20 season but even a motivated Dray was like the 8th best player in the 2019 finals. I don't see a good reason to be optimistic about Dray's performance.


8th best player? How could you possibly rationalize that? Please name the 7 players better than him.


Curry Klay Kawhi Lowry Siakam Van Vleet Gasol were all better than him in the finals.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#156 » by thinkingwarriors » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:05 am

ahmetmekin wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:
ahmetmekin wrote:Dray can and will be better compared to 19-20 season but even a motivated Dray was like the 8th best player in the 2019 finals. I don't see a good reason to be optimistic about Dray's performance.


8th best player? How could you possibly rationalize that? Please name the 7 players better than him.


Curry Klay Kawhi Lowry Siakam Van Vleet Gasol were all better than him in the finals.


I'm not seeing it. Dray averaged a trip dub and made his presence felt on both sides of the court, led both teams in assists and rebounds. The main scorers on both teams: Curry, Klay, Kawhi sure, Siakam I guess although he didn't have a great series. That's it. Lowry, Gasol and FVV did their jobs but Draymond did more for his team.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#157 » by ahmetmekin » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:32 am

thinkingwarriors wrote:
ahmetmekin wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:
8th best player? How could you possibly rationalize that? Please name the 7 players better than him.


Curry Klay Kawhi Lowry Siakam Van Vleet Gasol were all better than him in the finals.


I'm not seeing it. Dray averaged a trip dub and made his presence felt on both sides of the court, led both teams in assists and rebounds. The main scorers on both teams: Curry, Klay, Kawhi sure, Siakam I guess although he didn't have a great series. That's it. Lowry, Gasol and FVV did their jobs but Draymond did more for his team.

Let me break down Dray's numbers. His ortg is 101 drtg is 112. These numbers are clearly worse compared to VV, Lowry and Gasol.
He has 30 turnovers in 6 games despite the Raptors' entire defensive strategy was to stop Curry. So his assist numbers do not mean much. I almost do not care about the number of individual defensive rebounds. He has 9 orb. This is not a particulary impressive number. Despite all the attention on Curry he shot 54% which would be acceptable if there is no box and one but his ts is inferior to 6 raptors players and he has only 12.5 pts average per game. Klay's ts was 70% and this is not because Klay suddenly became KD, it is because of the attention Curry gets. Despite that Draymond's ts was below league average so I don't see how he contributed positively to offense.

Top 6 raptors players shot (ts) 56% or above and 4 of them are above 60%. So it is clear that defensively the Warriors sucked. Dray was supposed to anchor the defense but despite the fact that the Raptors are not an elite team offensively, pretty much all of them were efficient so Dray's defensive impact is also unclear. I see absolutely 0 case for him above Lowry. He is at best comparable to Gasol and FVV. In addition, if Siakam was a Warriors and Green was a Raptor player then this would be an even matchup. Green played at best as a high end role player.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#158 » by ILOVEIT » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:54 pm

I think it's fair to say that Draymond's game has diminished over the last couple of years.
However, saying he's like the 8th best player is nonsense...come on. His plus minus has been around 7 (5.5 in 2019 finals). Hardens averages around 4...Curry is 10..Klay is 7.

The question is if Draymond will comeback improved. I don't think his relative decline is physical. I think with Durant the whole team played worse individually.

He'll come back motivated...better. And if he does that he's still an all defensive team player and a player no other teams likes to compete against.
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#159 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:05 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:I think it's fair to say that Draymond's game has diminished over the last couple of years.
However, saying he's like the 8th best player is nonsense...come on. His plus minus has been around 7 (5.5 in 2019 finals). Hardens averages around 4...Curry is 10..Klay is 7.

The question is if Draymond will comeback improved. I don't think his relative decline is physical. I think with Durant the whole team played worse individually.

He'll come back motivated...better. And if he does that he's still an all defensive team player and a player no other teams likes to compete against.


Dray has had issues with his knees and feet. Hopefully he's 100%.
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Re: Wiggins and Warriors - get on the record. 

Post#160 » by wco81 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:19 pm

Well you hope he's motivated.

But he did just get paid so ...

But I think he played well for the first couple of years of his previous extension.

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