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Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package

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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#61 » by Warriors Analyst » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:30 pm

HiRez wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:With the injury problems Embiid has had, the sheer number of games he has missed, I don't know how anyone can be confident going forward with him.

That’s my biggest concern with Embiid as well. You can’t predict injuries but his history isn’t great and it’s not just one thing, there’s been a bunch of them. Basically expect him to miss 1/3 of RS games and who knows in the playoffs but injuries generally only pile up as the season goes on.

Second thing I don’t like is his Bogut-Biedrins level free throw shooting.

That said, no doubt he’s a beast when healthy and would fix a bunch of things for us.

But those of you saying I’d rather have Embiid than Wiseman, sure, but remember you’re going to have to give up significant assets to get him.


??? Embiid is a 79% career free throw shooter.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#62 » by HiRez » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:42 pm

Warriors Analyst wrote:
HiRez wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:With the injury problems Embiid has had, the sheer number of games he has missed, I don't know how anyone can be confident going forward with him.

That’s my biggest concern with Embiid as well. You can’t predict injuries but his history isn’t great and it’s not just one thing, there’s been a bunch of them. Basically expect him to miss 1/3 of RS games and who knows in the playoffs but injuries generally only pile up as the season goes on.

Second thing I don’t like is his Bogut-Biedrins level free throw shooting.

That said, no doubt he’s a beast when healthy and would fix a bunch of things for us.

But those of you saying I’d rather have Embiid than Wiseman, sure, but remember you’re going to have to give up significant assets to get him.


??? Embiid is a 79% career free throw shooter.

You're right! I don't know what the hell I was looking at, so scratch that off. Still have concerns about injuries though.

The big question is what would he cost? If it's our 2020 pick, Minny's 2021 pick, and Paschall, that's a steep price. No idea what the Sixers would demand but he won't be cheap.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#63 » by northoakland510 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:49 pm

HiRez wrote:
Warriors Analyst wrote:
HiRez wrote:That’s my biggest concern with Embiid as well. You can’t predict injuries but his history isn’t great and it’s not just one thing, there’s been a bunch of them. Basically expect him to miss 1/3 of RS games and who knows in the playoffs but injuries generally only pile up as the season goes on.

Second thing I don’t like is his Bogut-Biedrins level free throw shooting.

That said, no doubt he’s a beast when healthy and would fix a bunch of things for us.

But those of you saying I’d rather have Embiid than Wiseman, sure, but remember you’re going to have to give up significant assets to get him.


??? Embiid is a 79% career free throw shooter.

You're right! I don't know what the hell I was looking at, so scratch that off. Still have concerns about injuries though.

The big question is what would he cost? If it's our 2020 pick, Minny's 2021 pick, and Paschall, that's a steep price. No idea what the Sixers would demand but he won't be cheap.
I'll pass on Embiid

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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#64 » by xdrta+ » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:52 pm

HiRez wrote:The big question is what would he cost? If it's our 2020 pick, Minny's 2021 pick, and Paschall, that's a steep price. No idea what the Sixers would demand but he won't be cheap.


Embiid makes $29.5M next year. The Warriors would have to send out about $23.6M in salary, minimum.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#65 » by Warriors Analyst » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:53 pm

HiRez wrote:
Warriors Analyst wrote:
HiRez wrote:That’s my biggest concern with Embiid as well. You can’t predict injuries but his history isn’t great and it’s not just one thing, there’s been a bunch of them. Basically expect him to miss 1/3 of RS games and who knows in the playoffs but injuries generally only pile up as the season goes on.

Second thing I don’t like is his Bogut-Biedrins level free throw shooting.

That said, no doubt he’s a beast when healthy and would fix a bunch of things for us.

But those of you saying I’d rather have Embiid than Wiseman, sure, but remember you’re going to have to give up significant assets to get him.


??? Embiid is a 79% career free throw shooter.

You're right! I don't know what the hell I was looking at, so scratch that off. Still have concerns about injuries though.

The big question is what would he cost? If it's our 2020 pick, Minny's 2021 pick, and Paschall, that's a steep price. No idea what the Sixers would demand but he won't be cheap.


I don't really think we have the assets to make it happen unless he demands a trade, but I think I'd do it anyway. Embiid is only 25. The injury concerns are valid but I think that he'd be afforded the time to sit games when need be and he'd have to expend last energy. There's no way Embiid would need to play 35+ minutes a game as a Warrior. Chriss would be a great backup and spot starter, Looney (if not part of the trade package) would still do his thing, and when Embiid sits or misses games, we could lean more into Draymond at the 5. Our defense would be absolutely monstrous and on-ball creation with bench units would be way less of a concern with Embiid anchoring those types of lineups.

Let's say it costs Wiggins, Paschall, and the picks. At the MLE we could focus on a 3/4 guy like Crowder. I'll assume we won't use the TPE because we don't have the assets to attach to it to get anyone better than a Tony Snell level player, which is to say, an overpaid minimum guy. Sign GRIII at the minimum. Combine the two second round picks to trade up higher in the second round and grab someone like Desmond Bane.

Curry / Poole / Bowman
Klay / Mulder / Bane
Lee / GRIII
Green / Crowder / JTA
Embiid / Chriss / Looney

That's an absolutely dominant team.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#66 » by vagelis » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:19 pm

Wiggins works his 3pt shooting among other things this summer



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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#67 » by Mylie10 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:07 am

vagelis wrote:Wiggins works his 3pt shooting among other things this summer





The key to Wiggins shooting better from three is his arc. He would shoot a very flat arc at times with the Wolves. Very tough to shoot good percentages when you shoot line drives. Kobe is like the only one who got away with shooting with little arc. Kobe shot lasers.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#68 » by ILOVEIT » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:15 am

What tells me that he might be able to be a much better three point shooter is the ROTATION on the ball. I've noticed that great shooters seem to have more rotations...instead of shooting knuckleballs.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#69 » by Sam Lowry Jr » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:45 am

Hard pass on Embiid. Centers are like rbs and relief pitchers in today's NBA - I wouldn't pay big money on Embiid, even if he's a generational talent, which is questionable. He has super star skills, but no heart or drive, which you can't really teach.

On top of that, he's a ball stopper and his slow plodding style is a questionable fit in Kerr's system. Remember how excruciating it was having KD, Steph and Klay watch as Boogie was slowly posting up in a vacuum?

You would also mostly likely have to trade away Wiggins, who's-- as crazy as it sounds -- a better fit with the current healthy lineup than Embiid. We are already thin at wing as is, and if we trade away Wiggins, we would currently have Damien Lee (?!) guarding the likes of Paul George, Doncic, Lebron, etc next year. Good luck with that.

Ben Simmons would arguably fit better with the Splash Brothers, but then what do you do with two guys who can't shoot (Draymond) in the starting line up? Again, you would have to tinker with the core too much.

Unless its Giannis, I don't think we should mess with the line-up and system too much in trying to acquire a "super star." I look at teams like Toronto and Miami who are playing really well despite not going the "super team" route. Money is better spent trying to fill out the roster with great role players who know their roles than to go all in on a questionable fit superstar.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#70 » by Coxy » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:57 am

Sam Lowry Jr wrote:Hard pass on Embiid. Centers are like rbs and relief pitchers in today's NBA - I wouldn't pay big money on Embiid, even if he's a generational talent, which is questionable. He has super star skills, but no heart or drive, which you can't really teach.

On top of that, he's a ball stopper and his slow plodding style is a questionable fit in Kerr's system. Remember how excruciating it was having KD, Steph and Klay watch as Boogie was slowly posting up in a vacuum?

You would also mostly likely have to trade away Wiggins, who's-- as crazy as it sounds -- a better fit with the current healthy lineup than Embiid. We are already thin at wing as is, and if we trade away Wiggins, we would currently have Damien Lee (?!) guarding the likes of Paul George, Doncic, Lebron, etc next year. Good luck with that.

Ben Simmons would arguably fit better with the Splash Brothers, but then what do you do with two guys who can't shoot (Draymond) in the starting line up? Again, you would have to tinker with the core too much.

Unless its Giannis, I don't think we should mess with the line-up and system too much in trying to acquire a "super star." I look at teams like Toronto and Miami who are playing really well despite not going the "super team" route. Money is better spent trying to fill out the roster with great role players who know their roles than to go all in on a questionable fit superstar.


Great post, I agree on it all.

The only player on the Sixers we should realistically be looking at is Josh Richardson. Simmons and Embiid are too flawed for our system in their own ways, Horford is 137 years old and Harris is just too expensive for what he brings (Bit like Wiggins).
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#71 » by Darren » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:52 pm

Dallas rests KP two games in a roll for something. I guess KP could be traded elsewhere. Depends on what's available at #2, it may make sense for Dallas.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#72 » by TB » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:30 pm

Hollinger mentioned THE PACKAGE (wiggins, all the picks, looney) for Jrue and Redick.

I personally would not do that. This is exactly the type of trade I was worried about if we couldn't get a Giannis/Simmons/Embiid type.... settling for a lesser trade because the plan is to trade the picks.

Don't get me wrong, i LOVE both of those players. In fact I could talk myself into it because i'm such a big fan of Jrue. Redick is also great but getting really old and his defense was awful this year.

The two biggest problems I have with this trade is 1) losing the minny pick and 2) losing Wiggins... yes, i'm not a big Wiggins fans but we need numbers and this trade basically swaps Wiggins for a better player in Jrue, adds an MLE level guy like Redick... yet gives up both top 10 picks to do it.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#73 » by ILOVEIT » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:48 pm

Sam Lowry Jr wrote:Hard pass on Embiid. Centers are like rbs and relief pitchers in today's NBA - I wouldn't pay big money on Embiid, even if he's a generational talent, which is questionable. He has super star skills, but no heart or drive, which you can't really teach.

On top of that, he's a ball stopper and his slow plodding style is a questionable fit in Kerr's system. Remember how excruciating it was having KD, Steph and Klay watch as Boogie was slowly posting up in a vacuum?

You would also mostly likely have to trade away Wiggins, who's-- as crazy as it sounds -- a better fit with the current healthy lineup than Embiid. We are already thin at wing as is, and if we trade away Wiggins, we would currently have Damien Lee (?!) guarding the likes of Paul George, Doncic, Lebron, etc next year. Good luck with that.

Ben Simmons would arguably fit better with the Splash Brothers, but then what do you do with two guys who can't shoot (Draymond) in the starting line up? Again, you would have to tinker with the core too much.

Unless its Giannis, I don't think we should mess with the line-up and system too much in trying to acquire a "super star." I look at teams like Toronto and Miami who are playing really well despite not going the "super team" route. Money is better spent trying to fill out the roster with great role players who know their roles than to go all in on a questionable fit superstar.


Yep...nailed it. And watch Utah and Denver fight it out. How involved were their centers in that battle? THIS IS A GUARDS LEAGUE!!!!! So frustrating how folks don't see that. The ONLY thing that keeps Embiid possible is that he might make a three now and then.

A little more here - Warriors have FEASTED on big low post centers over the past 5 years. FEASTED. They hope for that low post isolation because they turn it over often and it's only two points. They LOVE to get a big traditional center trying to guard Curry...or Klay. The entire league loves putting big slow centers on an island so they can abuse them. We lost to Cavs in 2016 in part because Ezeli was put on a switch with Lebron.

The cool big center is dead. If you are not AD, then you are Yokic, Gobert, Embiid..and you are F'ing up spacing, can't guard the outside and you screw up the spacing.

And with that SAME logic, Wiseman is the wrong draft choice. And it will likely take him 3 years to sniff Embiid's level.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#74 » by ILOVEIT » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:52 pm

TB wrote:Hollinger mentioned THE PACKAGE (wiggins, all the picks, looney) for Jrue and Redick.

I personally would not do that. This is exactly the type of trade I was worried about if we couldn't get a Giannis/Simmons/Embiid type.... settling for a lesser trade because the plan is to trade the picks.

Don't get me wrong, i LOVE both of those players. In fact I could talk myself into it because i'm such a big fan of Jrue. Redick is also great but getting really old and his defense was awful this year.

The two biggest problems I have with this trade is 1) losing the minny pick and 2) losing Wiggins... yes, i'm not a big Wiggins fans but we need numbers and this trade basically swaps Wiggins for a better player in Jrue, adds an MLE level guy like Redick... yet gives up both top 10 picks to do it.


Umm....now that is interesting. Jrue to back Curry. Redick, who is probably a top 5 shooter in the league, having made every team he's been on MUCH better.

Wow....I love a big splash as the next guy but...I might just do that one.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#75 » by ILOVEIT » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:54 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:
TB wrote:Hollinger mentioned THE PACKAGE (wiggins, all the picks, looney) for Jrue and Redick.

I personally would not do that. This is exactly the type of trade I was worried about if we couldn't get a Giannis/Simmons/Embiid type.... settling for a lesser trade because the plan is to trade the picks.

Don't get me wrong, i LOVE both of those players. In fact I could talk myself into it because i'm such a big fan of Jrue. Redick is also great but getting really old and his defense was awful this year.

The two biggest problems I have with this trade is 1) losing the minny pick and 2) losing Wiggins... yes, i'm not a big Wiggins fans but we need numbers and this trade basically swaps Wiggins for a better player in Jrue, adds an MLE level guy like Redick... yet gives up both top 10 picks to do it.


Umm....now that is interesting. Jrue to back Curry. Redick, who is probably a top 5 shooter in the league, having made every team he's been on MUCH better.

Wow....I love a big splash as the next guy but...I might just do that one.


Oh wait....missed the part of losing Wiggins....so...I wouldn't do it. I think having a "big" small forward to switch and help the death lineup is key. Maybe same trade and give us a top 6 pick somehow...okay.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#76 » by Chris Porter's Hair » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:08 am

Mylie10 wrote:The key to Wiggins shooting better from three is his arc. He would shoot a very flat arc at times with the Wolves. Very tough to shoot good percentages when you shoot line drives. Kobe is like the only one who got away with shooting with little arc. Kobe shot lasers.


ILOVEIT wrote:What tells me that he might be able to be a much better three point shooter is the ROTATION on the ball. I've noticed that great shooters seem to have more rotations...instead of shooting knuckleballs.


We can armchair shooting coach (apologies to any of you out there who are actually shooting coaches heh). But around the time we acquired him, I saw interesting stats that said things like:
- He shot much better from the corners, but seldom shot 3's from the corners
- He shot much better on catch and shoot, but was taking most of his 3's off the dribble

THOSE things seem easily fixed if he's playing in a proper Warriors lineup. With good ball movement and him being a 3rd option or so, he should be able to take many more 3's when he's catching and shooting in a good position, rather than having to try to force a 3 and bail out his team.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#77 » by ShayDee » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:36 am

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:The key to Wiggins shooting better from three is his arc. He would shoot a very flat arc at times with the Wolves. Very tough to shoot good percentages when you shoot line drives. Kobe is like the only one who got away with shooting with little arc. Kobe shot lasers.


ILOVEIT wrote:What tells me that he might be able to be a much better three point shooter is the ROTATION on the ball. I've noticed that great shooters seem to have more rotations...instead of shooting knuckleballs.


We can armchair shooting coach (apologies to any of you out there who are actually shooting coaches heh). But around the time we acquired him, I saw interesting stats that said things like:
- He shot much better from the corners, but seldom shot 3's from the corners
- He shot much better on catch and shoot, but was taking most of his 3's off the dribble

THOSE things seem easily fixed if he's playing in a proper Warriors lineup. With good ball movement and him being a 3rd option or so, he should be able to take many more 3's when he's catching and shooting in a good position, rather than having to try to force a 3 and bail out his team.


Just imagining him becoming respectable from corner 3, pumpfaking it and using his dribbling and athleticism to run through the baseline to either jam it or passing to an open shooter when help defense comes in. Offense would be so fun to watch
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#78 » by azwfan » Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:02 am

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:The key to Wiggins shooting better from three is his arc. He would shoot a very flat arc at times with the Wolves. Very tough to shoot good percentages when you shoot line drives. Kobe is like the only one who got away with shooting with little arc. Kobe shot lasers.


ILOVEIT wrote:What tells me that he might be able to be a much better three point shooter is the ROTATION on the ball. I've noticed that great shooters seem to have more rotations...instead of shooting knuckleballs.


We can armchair shooting coach (apologies to any of you out there who are actually shooting coaches heh). But around the time we acquired him, I saw interesting stats that said things like:
- He shot much better from the corners, but seldom shot 3's from the corners
- He shot much better on catch and shoot, but was taking most of his 3's off the dribble

THOSE things seem easily fixed if he's playing in a proper Warriors lineup. With good ball movement and him being a 3rd option or so, he should be able to take many more 3's when he's catching and shooting in a good position, rather than having to try to force a 3 and bail out his team.

I may be slightly off, but I wanna say he shot 36% on catch and shoot 3’s. And 40% on 3’s from the corner.

Looking at the videos of him shooting, he is barely getting any height jumping, its almost a set shot. But when he’s shooting off the dribble, he’s jumping much more (similar to Paschall).

If he can bring his overall 3pt % up to 35% and free throws to at least 73%, while playing consistently hard on defense, i would be absolutely thrilled.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#79 » by Old_Blue » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:38 am

Mylie10 wrote:Kobe is like the only one who got away with shooting with little arc. Kobe shot lasers.



Did he really get away with it though? He shot .329 for his career from 3.
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Re: Wiggins + Wiseman/Edwards/Ball Trade Package 

Post#80 » by Mylie10 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:26 am

Old_Blue wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:Kobe is like the only one who got away with shooting with little arc. Kobe shot lasers.



Did he really get away with it though? He shot .329 for his career from 3.


His name will be in the Hall of Fame. He got away with it.
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