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Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says

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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#181 » by Scoots1994 » Sun Dec 6, 2020 3:37 am

mos_def wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
mos_def wrote:
I wouldn't say he was overdrafted. He was a big wing with legit skills coming out of Kansas. Parker at 2is a role player. Embiid is good. Aaron Gordon is okay and Exum has washed out. The biggest knock on Wiggins is that he is passive which doesn't fit well with a 1 scorer. He will be fine, especially with curry


Do you think he would go #1 in a re-draft? Top 5? Top 10?


I dont like doing redrafts years after. It was the draft where Nurkic went mid and Jokic in second round. Jokic would obviously jump higher in scenario, which is why I dont like doing it since it places more emphasis on nba fit and style than college production which the draft and combine more target. I would say top 10 tho


But the evaluations of Wiggins are happening NOW, and certainly him underperforming his draft position is a major factor in that hate. You may not like to do it and that's fine, but most people DO do that. They look at where a player was drafted and how much they are paid and if they are a #1 overall pick and have a max contract and they are not an all-star then they are "trash".
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#182 » by vagelis » Sun Dec 6, 2020 6:36 am

How can we tell that Wiggins is underperforming? He just averaged 22ppg, 5rpg, 3.7apg the last year.
Ok, I understand that the expectations are higher for him.
But I dont think that there are many players in his draft class that perform better.
Wiggins was projected to be raw offensively when he came to the league. Athough, he scored a lot from the first years because he has natural talent and athleticism.
He has worked his skills a lot the last 2 offseasons. I think that this will pay off and he can have a very good season. He will play for a better organization this year with higher goals.
Lets see.


Meanwhile, he indeed seems a little bit bigger this year

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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#183 » by Scoots1994 » Sun Dec 6, 2020 8:48 am

vagelis wrote:How can we tell that Wiggins is underperforming? He just averaged 22ppg, 5rpg, 3.7apg the last year.
Ok, I understand that the expectations are higher for him.
But I dont think that there are many players in his draft class that perform better.
Wiggins was projected to be raw offensively when he came to the league. Athough, he scored a lot from the first years because he has natural talent and athleticism.
He has worked his skills a lot the last 2 offseasons. I think that this will pay off and he can have a very good season. He will play for a better organization this year with higher goals.
Lets see.


That's the thing, it's not Warriors fans doing the evaluations it's the NBA talking heads and fans in general who are following the "bust" narrative. Wiggins is clearly not now and has clearly never been a bad player. That hate, if it is that, comes from him not living up to the dream standard of the #1 overall pick. I think the current "hot take" culture leads to all these extreme takes.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#184 » by mos_def » Sun Dec 6, 2020 3:05 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
vagelis wrote:How can we tell that Wiggins is underperforming? He just averaged 22ppg, 5rpg, 3.7apg the last year.
Ok, I understand that the expectations are higher for him.
But I dont think that there are many players in his draft class that perform better.
Wiggins was projected to be raw offensively when he came to the league. Athough, he scored a lot from the first years because he has natural talent and athleticism.
He has worked his skills a lot the last 2 offseasons. I think that this will pay off and he can have a very good season. He will play for a better organization this year with higher goals.
Lets see.


That's the thing, it's not Warriors fans doing the evaluations it's the NBA talking heads and fans in general who are following the "bust" narrative. Wiggins is clearly not now and has clearly never been a bad player. That hate, if it is that, comes from him not living up to the dream standard of the #1 overall pick. I think the current "hot take" culture leads to all these extreme takes.


Curious, what would Wiggins have to do to make him worth the contract/redraft losition?
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#185 » by Scoots1994 » Sun Dec 6, 2020 3:30 pm

mos_def wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
vagelis wrote:How can we tell that Wiggins is underperforming? He just averaged 22ppg, 5rpg, 3.7apg the last year.
Ok, I understand that the expectations are higher for him.
But I dont think that there are many players in his draft class that perform better.
Wiggins was projected to be raw offensively when he came to the league. Athough, he scored a lot from the first years because he has natural talent and athleticism.
He has worked his skills a lot the last 2 offseasons. I think that this will pay off and he can have a very good season. He will play for a better organization this year with higher goals.
Lets see.


That's the thing, it's not Warriors fans doing the evaluations it's the NBA talking heads and fans in general who are following the "bust" narrative. Wiggins is clearly not now and has clearly never been a bad player. That hate, if it is that, comes from him not living up to the dream standard of the #1 overall pick. I think the current "hot take" culture leads to all these extreme takes.


Curious, what would Wiggins have to do to make him worth the contract/redraft losition?


Basically most people think top 3 pick/max contract players should be all-stars. Wiggins would have to play well enough to be in the running for an all-star spot every year.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#186 » by MarxyLebronist » Sun Dec 6, 2020 4:48 pm

Obviously franchise fans have to determine what a player means to them, or what they will forgive and how they will rationalize/positively spin any commonly discussed issues. It's sort of like how so many fans have various things they don't forgive about Lebron (though his contract is never in question of course). Wiggins is sort of like other previous maxed players who were maxed for all sorts of non basketball reasons, and now their perfectly useful NBA pro athleticism and abilities get swept under the rug a bit. I guess it's just the nature of the salary cap nerd ball era. Spreadsheets and clever manipulations thereof seem to be the focus all too often. Wish they'd do away with the cap and see how badly teams hamper their own success spending however they'd care to. But anyway, I really liked that idea about re-ranking that draft, since it was so very deep, and thought I'd take a stab at some tiers as others mentioned. These are in no order, only in groups.

1-10: Jokic, Nurkic, Bogdanović, Embiid, Jerami Grant, Gordon, TJ Warren, Gary Harris, Dinwiddie, Capela
11-15: Smart, Hood, Wiggins, Randle, LaVine (another bad contract now probably)... really want Torrey Craig here, too, but already at 15! (he was undrafted)

Thoughts on others I didn't mention deserving a spot?
EDIT, Here's the draft list: https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2014.html
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#187 » by MarxyLebronist » Sun Dec 6, 2020 5:14 pm

I already hate my own list ha- Marcus Smart is a really incredible presence when it's pressure time. He might be a little crazy, but I'd want him on my team for his grit, passion, and courage. Reminds me of a shorter (prime) Draymond Green actually. The guy an opponent just HAAAAAATES and who does all the little things to get possessions. I give up on these rankings already, it's impossible.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#188 » by TrueFan420 » Sun Dec 6, 2020 5:15 pm

Smart and Joe Harris
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#189 » by MarxyLebronist » Sun Dec 6, 2020 5:19 pm

TrueFan420 wrote:Smart and Joe Harris


Oh jeez totally left him off too ha. I was so sure to get Gary on (defense wins championships!).
Thanks.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#190 » by SF_Warriors » Mon Dec 7, 2020 12:09 am

mos_def wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
vagelis wrote:How can we tell that Wiggins is underperforming? He just averaged 22ppg, 5rpg, 3.7apg the last year.
Ok, I understand that the expectations are higher for him.
But I dont think that there are many players in his draft class that perform better.
Wiggins was projected to be raw offensively when he came to the league. Athough, he scored a lot from the first years because he has natural talent and athleticism.
He has worked his skills a lot the last 2 offseasons. I think that this will pay off and he can have a very good season. He will play for a better organization this year with higher goals.
Lets see.


That's the thing, it's not Warriors fans doing the evaluations it's the NBA talking heads and fans in general who are following the "bust" narrative. Wiggins is clearly not now and has clearly never been a bad player. That hate, if it is that, comes from him not living up to the dream standard of the #1 overall pick. I think the current "hot take" culture leads to all these extreme takes.


Curious, what would Wiggins have to do to make him worth the contract/redraft losition?


20ppg on 56% TS at the minimum for me. That would make the contract stomachable
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#191 » by Little Digger » Tue Dec 8, 2020 3:54 am

Read on Twitter
?s=21


His form looks so much better
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#192 » by Onus » Tue Dec 8, 2020 4:28 am

It looks a lot quicker as well.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#193 » by a8bil » Tue Dec 8, 2020 8:56 pm

Little Digger wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


His form looks so much better
How long did it take to capture him hitting 3 in a row?

I'm not down on Wiggins. I'm happy to see that he put on muscle. At least it shows he's trying at some level to meet expectations. He may never actually meet them, but you have to appreciate effort.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#194 » by vagelis » Tue Dec 8, 2020 9:26 pm

What are your expectations from Wiggins this year?
I would say 22ppg, 5rpg,5apg while improving his 3pt shooting and ft%
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#195 » by a8bil » Tue Dec 8, 2020 9:31 pm

So hard to say....it really depends on the roles of other players. That said, my guess is 20 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.6 apg on 45% shooting and 35% from 3 pt range. He's going to have more of a Klay type role where the ball ends up in his hands to score, but he won't do it as efficiently as Klay.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#196 » by ChuckDurn » Tue Dec 8, 2020 9:39 pm

a8bil wrote:So hard to say....it really depends on the roles of other players. That said, my guess is 20 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.6 apg on 45% shooting and 35% from 3 pt range. He's going to have more of a Klay type role where the ball ends up in his hands to score, but he won't do it as efficiently as Klay.

Almost exactly what I think, but I'd go a little lower on rebounds (about 5 per game) and a little higher on assists (around 4 per game). But I think he'll be in that 20-22 ppg area, and right at the 45%/35% shooting splits you noted.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#197 » by Outside » Wed Dec 9, 2020 12:50 am

floppymoose wrote:Just once I want an un-injured player to tell the press that they don't feel as strong as they had hoped coming into camp and that they should have hit the gym more.


Andrew Bynum may not have said it, but he didn't have to.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#198 » by Old_Blue » Wed Dec 9, 2020 9:36 pm

Wiggins not even considered a Top 100 player in the league...for the second straight season...

https://sports.yahoo.com/andrew-wiggins-left-off-espns-174112753.html
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#199 » by ChuckDurn » Wed Dec 9, 2020 9:54 pm

Old_Blue wrote:Wiggins not even considered a Top 100 player in the league...for the second straight season...

https://sports.yahoo.com/andrew-wiggins-left-off-espns-174112753.html

I'd say that these ESPN ratings will be good locker-room material for the Warriors if they're looking for motivation.

Kevin Pelton's team ratings (which I think are related to the individual player ratings) had the Warriors finishing 14th in the West. Not in the League..... in the West.

Draymond certainly won't be happy with being ranked 44. He'll want to prove them wrong.

We'll learn more this year about how much fire Wiggins and Oubre have, but I doubt either of them are happy with being ranked out of the top-100. Wiggins certainly has the capability to be much higher (top-50 at least, if playing efficiently), and Oubre will be playing for a contract and wanting to prove himself for critics, as well as teams that will be paying him.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins one of Warriors' 'core four' players, Bob Myers says 

Post#200 » by cpower » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:43 am

I've followed Wiggins long enough to say he is the bust of the decade...He may be a solid role player if he re-focus on this defense and just put up a few shots a game within the flow..but he is never going to be like that. He does not know what to do with bastketball, he dribbles for 5 secs then he jacks up a long 2...I feel like I am watching Vince Carter playing in 1999.. this league has changed so much that there is no place for iso ball unless you can make play for others and shoot 3s well. Wiggins is not going to survive much longer once he turns like 27..

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