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2020 Draft Thread, Part 2

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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#41 » by wco81 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:54 pm

northoakland510 wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
northoakland510 wrote:
People act is if the team played small ball because they wanted to. The team played small because they didn't have a big who was good enough to keep on the court. McGee with his limited skillset showed us what length and athleticism could do for this team.


Javale looked like an absolute terror at times in a warriors uni.


I still wonder why Kerr didn't like Mcgee.



Because he becomes unplayable against certain matchups. For instance he didn't get many minutes vs. Rockets and not sure if he played against Portland either,

People on Lakers board are tearing into him for idiotic plays. Maybe his reputation hurts him.


During the regular season though, he can make a few blocks, some big dunks, for stretches, which help the team.

In the 2018 or 2018 Finals vs. Cleveland, he had some real good stretches with a lot of dunks that helped the Warriors. But outside of those, the most Kerr was going to play him was maybe 10-15 minutes in the playoffs, which is the same as Bogut.

Warriors led the way by going small in the 2015 Finals and after that, ALL playoff teams have small lineups and sit their big men.

The game isn't likely to change back.

Toronto played GAsol because even though he's not the scorer he used to be, he can clog up the lane to protect the rim and he can't be left alone at the 3 point line, because he can hit enough of them if given a wide open look.

Otherwise, most teams won't play the C very much unless they're like ballet dancers with ridiculously quick feet. Even then their size will prevent them from turning their hips quickly enough to avoid being crossed over.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#42 » by northoakland510 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:55 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:
northoakland510 wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Javale looked like an absolute terror at times in a warriors uni.


I still wonder why Kerr didn't like Mcgee.


Mcgee had a ton of flaws..inconsistent defensively, low bball iq, no jumper or post moves to speak of, somewhat low motor. He was just an athletic freak with decent touch around the basket. He filled a hole, nothing more, but was really effective in limited minutes.


I know he had his flaws, but in those limited minutes it worked well. Definitely could have used him in the finals against Toronto where our undersized big's couldn't protect the rim.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#43 » by Little Digger » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:56 pm

ShayDee wrote:
Little Digger wrote:I’ve seen Wiseman play in 4 games..two in high school and 2 at Memphis..what the heck have you guys been watching that makes you think he can come in and compete ? Workout videos? Interviews? Scouting reports? What is it?


No single freshman is going to come in and be ready to compete, it's why I've been advocating to getting Desmond Bane on this team

I like Bane’s shooting of course ..but defensively from what I saw he has no chance..
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#44 » by SF_Warriors » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:57 pm

northoakland510 wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
northoakland510 wrote:
I still wonder why Kerr didn't like Mcgee.


Mcgee had a ton of flaws..inconsistent defensively, low bball iq, no jumper or post moves to speak of, somewhat low motor. He was just an athletic freak with decent touch around the basket. He filled a hole, nothing more, but was really effective in limited minutes.


I know he had his flaws, but in those limited minutes it worked well. Definitely could have used him in the finals against Toronto where our undersized big's couldn't protect the rim.


Yea I agree he would have helped. The threat for lobs and put backs would have been better than a limited cousins. Also cousins was a ball stopper and turnover machine. Mcgee playing those minutes wpuld mean a more fluid offense.

Now imagine a souped up version who can stay on the floor for 30 min a night
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#45 » by northoakland510 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:59 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:
northoakland510 wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Mcgee had a ton of flaws..inconsistent defensively, low bball iq, no jumper or post moves to speak of, somewhat low motor. He was just an athletic freak with decent touch around the basket. He filled a hole, nothing more, but was really effective in limited minutes.


I know he had his flaws, but in those limited minutes it worked well. Definitely could have used him in the finals against Toronto where our undersized big's couldn't protect the rim.


Yea I agree he would have helped. The threat for lobs and put backs would have been better than a limited cousins.

Now imagine a souped up version who can stay on the floor for 30 min a night


That's why Wiseman excites me!
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#46 » by northoakland510 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:59 pm

Little Digger wrote:
ShayDee wrote:
Little Digger wrote:I’ve seen Wiseman play in 4 games..two in high school and 2 at Memphis..what the heck have you guys been watching that makes you think he can come in and compete ? Workout videos? Interviews? Scouting reports? What is it?


No single freshman is going to come in and be ready to compete, it's why I've been advocating to getting Desmond Bane on this team

I like Bane’s shooting of course ..but defensively from what I saw he has no chance..


What is Bane like off the dribble?
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#47 » by Onus » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:02 pm

ShayDee wrote:
northoakland510 wrote:People act is if the team played small ball because they wanted to. The team played small because they didn't have a big who was good enough to keep on the court. McGee with his limited skillset showed us what length and athleticism could do for this team.


Small ball also worked to an extent because we had 3 people that could almost switch to all 5 positions. Dray, Iguodala and KD while KD being a capable rim protector and defender against the bigger wings like Kawhi and Lebron and some Cs. We do not have 2 of those players and Draymond is 3 years older so how is small ball going to work with this unproven new iteration of the team? I guess we would find out if Deni is the pick

If you don’t like smallball then you have to get rid of Draymond because he’s a midget for his position and his best spot is as a center because he can’t score.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#48 » by AdonalFoyle4Prez » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:07 pm

northoakland510 wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:
Lol!!

I’m done trying to convince. I know how I feel and what I know. I’m sticking my track record out on a limb, and I’m comfortable with it.

I See future All Star, and a big man who understands where the league is going. Also extremely coachable.


I have been yearning to see this team with an above average center let alone an all star caliber one. Javale had a resurgence when he was here and I feel wiseman is a better player in many respects. Our best center in the past two decades was an almost broken down andrew bogut.

I dont care what people say, bigs are still important in this league. Look at miami with Bam, nuggets with Jokic, and Lakers with AD. Not saying wiseman will be at that level, but he doesnt have to be to be an impact player for this team. And unless you have an elite wing situation like the clips or celts or warriors of the past, having quality front court players are usually important for championship contending teams. Of course, if the warriors feel different about another player in the draft then by all means.


People act is if the team played small ball because they wanted to. The team played small because they didn't have a big who was good enough to keep on the court. McGee with his limited skillset showed us what length and athleticism could do for this team.


Playing smallball exploits legit 6'10 - 7'+ footers' inability to defend the perimeter.

2 things can happen:

1a) The 5 gets burnt by getting blown by a much quicker and explosive player, leaving the paint exposed to an easy layup/dunk|
1b) After that sequence, they also can kick it out to a wide-open corner 3 point shooter or cutter/slasher due to overhelp/weakside defender being drawn into the paint, losing their man.
2) If the player the 5 defends can shoot long range, they'll create separation to get their shot off with ease.

Where the league is currently, they're valuing the smallball lineup (At least on the offensive end) due to them having the 1 - 5 more than capable of spreading the floor and maximizing offensive output (aka taking the 3s). Having the ability to defend adequately helps, too, since it is become more of a perimeter-oriented game when it comes to smallball.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#49 » by SF_Warriors » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:11 pm

Onus wrote:
ShayDee wrote:
northoakland510 wrote:People act is if the team played small ball because they wanted to. The team played small because they didn't have a big who was good enough to keep on the court. McGee with his limited skillset showed us what length and athleticism could do for this team.


Small ball also worked to an extent because we had 3 people that could almost switch to all 5 positions. Dray, Iguodala and KD while KD being a capable rim protector and defender against the bigger wings like Kawhi and Lebron and some Cs. We do not have 2 of those players and Draymond is 3 years older so how is small ball going to work with this unproven new iteration of the team? I guess we would find out if Deni is the pick

If you don’t like smallball then you have to get rid of Draymond because he’s a midget for his position and his best spot is as a center because he can’t score.


We need draymond, he is the only player on the roster that I feel fits the modern game defensively at a high level.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#50 » by wco81 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:28 pm

It's ironic for long-time Warriors fans.

We saw the limits of Nelly Ball when big lineups killed the RunTMC and We Believe teams once those GSW teams got past the first round.

So what an unexpected surprise that they went small in the 2014-15 Finals to flip the series around, with Iggy getting wide open midrange looks vs. Cavs centers.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#51 » by ShayDee » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:33 pm

northoakland510 wrote:
Little Digger wrote:
ShayDee wrote:
No single freshman is going to come in and be ready to compete, it's why I've been advocating to getting Desmond Bane on this team

I like Bane’s shooting of course ..but defensively from what I saw he has no chance..


What is Bane like off the dribble?


He is one of the best, if not the best off dribble 3 point shooter. Maybe Markus Howard is the only player I say is better than him

This scouting report does a good job on him. I have many others but this one went in depth. And it is completely false that he is bad defensively, he just has short arms. That doesn't stop Tyler Herro from playing crunch time minutes for the heat does it? If you say he is a bad defender then you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and I question how well you can evaluate prospects

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/04/06/desmond-bane-scouting-report/

Shooting: Very good shooter all around. Unorthodox form, but it’s a very smooth shot with no hitch whatsoever. Very soft touch. Can speed up the release when necessary without adjusting/sacrificing form in the upper body or balance in the lower body. Consistent form across all shots – off the bounce, plain C&S, and movement. Deep range – shot at least 17/45 from NBA 3 (Ryan, @5 _factor on Twitter) – data is not complete due to ESPN’s location data, but it shows in film as well.

Shot Versatility / Creation: Very versatile shooter – can shoot off the bounce, pure C&S, and movement shots. His form, though unorthodox, translates smoothly across all mediums. Can pull up going downhill and hit from midrange off a final dribble with either hand. Does a nice job setting up his jumper with hang crosses, simple crossovers, hard steps downhill faking the drive, and using his body to create space on stepbacks – likes going from hang crosses to a through legs cross into a stepback. Smooth release off dribble moves. Gets a bit more pop off dribble jumpers, and the release can speed up, allowing him to get his shot off when the defender is on him / a lengthier person is contesting. Great lower body balance on pure C&S jumpers, same consistent release. On movement shots, Bane, though not particularly fast around screens, does a nice job reading screens, getting his body balanced and set pretty quickly, and staying ready to shoot immediately on the catch. Comfortable shooting off a 1-2 step in and can shoot off movement coming into either shoulder. Deep range on C&S / movement threes, but his movement range is particularly impressive.

Shot IQ: Good shot IQ. Not someone who will force shots he’s not supposed to take, take shots too early in the clock, look off open teammates, etc – just takes smart shots. Does a nice job using the threat of his shot to set up drives (and kickouts) / looks closer to the rim. However, if there’s one gripe I have with the shot selection, it’s that I think he can attack the paint a bit more. Not a ball stopper / someone who will ISO very often – he picks his spots.

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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#52 » by Onus » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:41 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:
Onus wrote:
ShayDee wrote:
Small ball also worked to an extent because we had 3 people that could almost switch to all 5 positions. Dray, Iguodala and KD while KD being a capable rim protector and defender against the bigger wings like Kawhi and Lebron and some Cs. We do not have 2 of those players and Draymond is 3 years older so how is small ball going to work with this unproven new iteration of the team? I guess we would find out if Deni is the pick

If you don’t like smallball then you have to get rid of Draymond because he’s a midget for his position and his best spot is as a center because he can’t score.


We need draymond, he is the only player on the roster that I feel fits the modern game defensively at a high level.

I agree. Draymond is essentially our bam or their bam is our Draymond only Draymond is 6’5” while bam is 6’9”. We’ll always be small until Draymond is moved.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#53 » by AdonalFoyle4Prez » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:45 pm

Onus wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Onus wrote:If you don’t like smallball then you have to get rid of Draymond because he’s a midget for his position and his best spot is as a center because he can’t score.


We need draymond, he is the only player on the roster that I feel fits the modern game defensively at a high level.

I agree. Draymond is essentially our bam or their bam is our Draymond only Draymond is 6’5” while bam is 6’9”. We’ll always be small until Draymond is moved on.


Unless we draft Deni Avdija to become Draymond's successor? Deni does love to grab the rebound and push pass mid-court and make plays.. just sayin'..

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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#54 » by ShayDee » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:47 pm

Onus wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Onus wrote:If you don’t like smallball then you have to get rid of Draymond because he’s a midget for his position and his best spot is as a center because he can’t score.


We need draymond, he is the only player on the roster that I feel fits the modern game defensively at a high level.

I agree. Draymond is essentially our bam or their bam is our Draymond only Draymond is 6’5” while bam is 6’9”. We’ll always be small until Draymond is moved on.


What Draymod needs to do is improve offensively. The current Draymond will be a liability on any small ball lineup for the warriors. He cannot drive because he is not really athletic and small, cannot shoot 3, forgot how to shoot runners, no midrange. Man I'm so frightened about what happens when other teams neutralize Steph and Klay as well as the paint and we have to create offense from everywhere else
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#55 » by Onus » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:53 pm

ShayDee wrote:
Onus wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
We need draymond, he is the only player on the roster that I feel fits the modern game defensively at a high level.

I agree. Draymond is essentially our bam or their bam is our Draymond only Draymond is 6’5” while bam is 6’9”. We’ll always be small until Draymond is moved on.


What Draymod needs to do is improve offensively. The current Draymond will be a liability on any small ball lineup for the warriors. He cannot drive because he is not really athletic and small, cannot shoot 3, forgot how to shoot runners, no midrange. Man I'm so frightened about what happens when other teams neutralize Steph and Klay as well as the paint and we have to create offense from everywhere else


Draymond knows just screen for Steph which makes him a weapon because he’ll have an open lane to the rim. What he does with it from there who knows. Toronto had the length and speed to cover the rim and without klay as an outlet it was game.

Lebron and ad are so good defensively because they cover massive amounts of ground on the 2v1 and they can rotate to cover the paint. Their defense is scary
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#56 » by Onus » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:55 pm

AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:
Onus wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
We need draymond, he is the only player on the roster that I feel fits the modern game defensively at a high level.

I agree. Draymond is essentially our bam or their bam is our Draymond only Draymond is 6’5” while bam is 6’9”. We’ll always be small until Draymond is moved on.


Unless we draft Deni Avdija to become Draymond's successor? Deni does love to grab the rebound and push pass mid-court and make plays.. just sayin'..

[url][/url]


I can definitely see Deni playing the 4 and he would make a good pick and roll partner with Steph because he would essentially be in transition rolling to the rim and he’d make good decisions. But we would still need that elite help defender at the center position. While deni can provide some rim protection i wouldn’t rely on him solely
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#57 » by AdonalFoyle4Prez » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:02 pm

Onus wrote:
AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:
Onus wrote:I agree. Draymond is essentially our bam or their bam is our Draymond only Draymond is 6’5” while bam is 6’9”. We’ll always be small until Draymond is moved on.


Unless we draft Deni Avdija to become Draymond's successor? Deni does love to grab the rebound and push pass mid-court and make plays.. just sayin'..

[url][/url]


I can definitely see Deni playing the 4 and he would make a good pick and roll partner with Steph because he would essentially be in transition rolling to the rim and he’d make good decisions. But we would still need that elite help defender at the center position. While deni can provide some rim protection i wouldn’t rely on him solely


If you read the scouting reports, Avdija actually made his living as an above average help/weakside defender playing with the Tel Aviv ball club and a bit in the EuroLeague. But, yeah, having a legit 7 ft shot-blocker to cover anyone's ass helps. This is going to be a tough one (Or no brainer depending on who you ask).
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#58 » by TB » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:09 pm

Dray is great in any type of lineup and is a massive positive on offense and defense. We should all stop worrying about Dray unless he's injured. The majority of his time has been next to other bigs that don't shoot, so drafting Wiseman is fine (in fact he already shoots better than a bogut/zaza/javale/jones).

I think I'm with ShayDee and feel that if we can somehow leave the draft with Wiseman and Bane (using 2nds and cash to move around) it will be a major win getting 2 players that can play as rookies.

And yes that means we HAVE to get legit players with the MLE and TPE to be our 6th and 7th men.

And yes that means I will be very sad to not land Poku somehow. But I won't need to worry about that for a couple years.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#59 » by Mylie10 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:17 pm

wco81 wrote:It's ironic for long-time Warriors fans.

We saw the limits of Nelly Ball when big lineups killed the RunTMC and We Believe teams once those GSW teams got past the first round.

So what an unexpected surprise that they went small in the 2014-15 Finals to flip the series around, with Iggy getting wide open midrange looks vs. Cavs centers.


Well that says the Cavs big men sucked basically.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#60 » by Little Digger » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:01 pm

Man I sure hope there’s somebody at #2 one of these goofball front offices fall in love with
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