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wco81 wrote:Outside shot is a pretty big deal. Especially being out in the court with Draymond.

Unless he can dribble drive to the basket and finish at high percentage.

Okoro is a great finisher. The only thing he needs is solid shooting percentages. Because he does everything else.

If he were a great shooter he’d go too 3 for sure.

ShayDee wrote:
It takes so long from Wiseman to go in for that dunk. He just moves so slow. Even in the drills with the smaller guys. If those guys actually defended, don't know if Wiseman can get past them. I am not seeing anything that says he's more than a rim runner and rebounder on offense. Wide open set shot in short distances, yes. Long 2's and 3's, he's not going to be efficient enough.

The warriors offense is to take the best shot given, whether it's cutting dunks, 3 pointers or long 2s. So it doesn't matter. If he has a high chance of making long 2s he will take it. Also Wiseman goes high up to dunk, so it will be hard to block him, thereby he will be a foul magnet like AD/Embiid

And tell me a 7fter that moves fast apart from Giannis? It's natural for people that tall with muscle to move like that and Wiseman is faster than your regular NBA 7fter[/quote]


The case for Wiseman is that he’s going to give you more than what Dwight Howard can at this point of his career. I am not seeing that. Howard got paid 2,500,000 by the Lakers and is likely a mid level or below type of player right now.

There are 2 players with an elite skill in the draft, Ball with his vision and passing, and Okoro with his defense. Of course both players also have weaknesses elsewhere in their game. I'm confident Okoro will be functional on offense in the NBA, I'm not as confident that Ball will be a good teammate or be able to defend.

I see what Wiseman could be, but just like Ball and Edwards, I don't know that he has what it takes above the line to get there.

At the beginning of this process my top 2 were Deni and Okoro and I think they still are.

It would suck having the #2 pick if he was eligible for the 2020 draft


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Little Digger wrote:It would suck having the #2 pick if he was eligible for the 2020 draft

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When is he eligible. Love to see some game speed on him.

I would still take Wiseman. I fully believe that he will be worth more in a trade after he plays with us than prior.

Because of his shortened almost non existent college career, he hasn’t been seen by many. So after playing with us and contributing to a winning situation, he will probably garner more in a future trade than he would now.

Little Digger wrote:GSW’s other Living Legend weighs in

"There's nobody out there (that makes me say), 'Wow, this guy is gonna be an unbelievable, great NBA player that you can build your team around,' " Barry said. "Well if that's the case, and you got the second pick, why do you want to take somebody that might take 2-3 years -- especially a bigger guy -- to develop and be able to help you.

"You got to do it now. You've got three main guys on your team who are not getting any younger. You need to put people on that team with them that can give them a chance to win now.

"I would rather have a veteran guy than a rookie coming into the league when you don't know what the hell is gonna happen."


https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/why-rick-barry-wants-warriors-sign-serge-ibaka-nba-free-agency

Solid advice from a solid Warriors Legend.

Been saying it countless times, too: If Wiseman is a once-in-a-lifetime talent, you take him with #2. No question. But, if he’s going to take 2-3 years to develop to be good, need to trade for a veteran or trade down for a player who can play now.

JSML wrote:

ShayDee wrote:
It takes so long from Wiseman to go in for that dunk. He just moves so slow. Even in the drills with the smaller guys. If those guys actually defended, don't know if Wiseman can get past them. I am not seeing anything that says he's more than a rim runner and rebounder on offense. Wide open set shot in short distances, yes. Long 2's and 3's, he's not going to be efficient enough.

The warriors offense is to take the best shot given, whether it's cutting dunks, 3 pointers or long 2s. So it doesn't matter. If he has a high chance of making long 2s he will take it. Also Wiseman goes high up to dunk, so it will be hard to block him, thereby he will be a foul magnet like AD/Embiid

And tell me a 7fter that moves fast apart from Giannis? It's natural for people that tall with muscle to move like that and Wiseman is faster than your regular NBA 7fter

The case for Wiseman is that he’s going to give you more than what Dwight Howard can at this point of his career. I am not seeing that. Howard got paid 2,500,000 by the Lakers and is likely a mid level or below type of player right now.[/quote]

Howard cannot shoot the ball like Wiseman so yes Wiseman wild give more than Howard,Wiseman has more BBIQ and is less of a headache

Little Digger wrote:It would suck having the #2 pick if he was eligible for the 2020 draft

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Wiseman was doing all these in high school, that's why we me and Mylie are so high on him, if Wiseman didn't go to college no one would label freaking Dwight or DeAndre Jordan on him, that's why I said Wiseman is a rare 7fter, because he can dribble and shoot and learn to pass because he is intelligent

Mylie10 wrote:When is he eligible. Love to see some game speed on him.

And about 50+ lbs, holy crap that kid is skinny. Most NBA players' arms are thicker than his legs.

If Rick doesn't think there's a great talent in the draft, then NBA teams probably think the same, probably won't trade some all-star level talent to GSW to move up for that pick.

Is Okoro's defense better than Thybulle's defense when he was coming out last year?

For his great defense, 76ers still underachieved so wing defense may be overrated.

wco81 wrote:Is Okoro's defense better than Thybulle's defense when he was coming out last year?

For his great defense, 76ers still underachieved so wing defense may be overrated.

The worrisome thing about Okoros defense to me is his low STL% and BLK% for being a defensive stopper. Thybulle's or even any other defensive player has way higher values than him. I guess he didn't like to take risks

For context,

Okoro: 0.9 Stl/g 0.9 blk/g 1.7 STL% 3.1 BLK%
Thybulle(final year): 3,5 stl/g, 2.3blk/g 6.7 STL%, 8.4 BLK%

That's why I think Okoro is overrated a bit by alot of people. In a normal draft he won't be in the lottery But the draft being weak has elevated him

Right now, if I'm picking at #2, I'm taking Wiseman or Haliburton, in that order.

If trading down, I'm targeting Haliburton, Okongwu, Vassell, Okoro, Avdija, or Edwards (if he falls that far), in that order.

It’s hard for me to judge where Deni is at as a player. I just don’t know international basketball and his Israeli League that well. Is he further ahead than Hezonja, Saric, or Mirotic at this point? I don’t know.

What I do know is Wiseman was the #1 guy in his class, a pre-season consensus 1st Team All-American, a favorite for National Player of the Year. Now he’s a projected top 3 pick.

At no point were guys like DeAndre Jordan or Javale McGee in the conversation for any of the above things. They were both total after thought prospects.

College Numbers as Freshman:
Wiseman 19ppg 10rpg
Jordan 7ppg 6rpg
McGee 3ppg 2rpg

While it’s a small sample size it’s clear he’s ahead ahead of where those guys were at the same point. Wiseman was no doubt gonna score a lot, rebound a lot, and block a lot of shots.

For Reference as Freshman:
Towns 10ppg 6rpg
Embiid 11ppg 8rpg
Aldridge 9ppg 5rpg
Vucevic 2ppg 2rpg

For all the nitpicking on what Wiseman isn’t I will say he moves up and down the court much better than Towns, Embiid, or Vucevic. Wiseman also has a great feel for getting to the open spot.

Wasn't Mirotic MVP over there before he came to the Bulls?

Lot of Euros are just average. Luka is one of the few exceptions.

Yeah I just looked at it. Mirotic was the Spanish League MVP. Peja was like multiple MVP’s across Greek League, FIBA, Europa, highest scorer. You know Peja was going to be a bad man, should’ve went higher. Hezonja looks like he was experiencing more team success than individual accolades.

DAWill1128 wrote:It’s hard for me to judge where Deni is at as a player. I just don’t know international basketball and his Israeli League that well. Is he further ahead than Hezonja, Saric, or Mirotic at this point? I don’t know.

What I do know is Wiseman was the #1 guy in his class, a pre-season consensus 1st Team All-American, a favorite for National Player of the Year. Now he’s a projected top 3 pick.

At no point were guys like DeAndre Jordan or Javale McGee in the conversation for any of the above things. They were both total after thought prospects.

College Numbers as Freshman:
Wiseman 19ppg 10rpg
Jordan 7ppg 6rpg
McGee 3ppg 2rpg

While it’s a small sample size it’s clear he’s ahead ahead of where those guys were at the same point. Wiseman was no doubt gonna score a lot, rebound a lot, and block a lot of shots.

For Reference as Freshman:
Towns 10ppg 6rpg
Embiid 11ppg 8rpg
Aldridge 9ppg 5rpg
Vucevic 2ppg 2rpg

For all the nitpicking on what Wiseman isn’t I will say he moves up and down the court much better than Towns, Embiid, or Vucevic. Wiseman also has a great feel for getting to the open spot.

If the Ws take Wiseman #2, then the problem I see is he will take three years to become an All-Star. Let's assume he'll be an All-Star. Then a young team like the Celtics should take a chance on getting four All-Star starters (Kemba, Brown/Smart, Tatum, and Wiseman) by trading Jaylen Brown or Marcus Smart + their FRPs.

Maybe it's just the times we live in, but I am preparing to be totally disappointed with this entire draft. It just feels like the worst draft in the history of drafts, one that nobody is really enthused about. The entire lot of prospects is flawed in one way or another, an island of misfit toys observers are trying to justify would complement one team or another. Add to that multiple reports of teams wanting to trade down in order to avoid higher draft pick salaries, it wouldn't surprise me at all if more than one team simply sold their pick for cash considerations. What a year to be picking #2. Instead of being jazzed about this draft, I'm just hoping the the Warriors avoid stepping in dog poop. Wish I could be more optimistic, but I just don't see how with these choices.