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What we are lacking

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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#21 » by Flash Falcon X » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:22 am

DAWill1128 wrote:I think we can get what we need done.

* TPE+Warriors 1st in 2021 for Igoudola and Nunn. We grab a vet wing and a spark plug backup ball handler. Heat clear space to pursue Oladipo.

* MLE on Mo Harkless. Harkless is 6-9 with a 7-2 wingspan and can defend 2-4.

* Draft Wiseman who can contest some shots and help on the boards.

Or

* TPE on Will Barton. Barton is a good vocal leader who can score at all 3 levels. Denver can clear some space for the younger guys.

* MLE on Baynes. Baynes gets to start and we get a banger who can screen, pass, shoot.

* Draft Avdija to play point forward. Adds some versatile size.


People think it’s a smokescreen but I do believe the Warriors are interested in Deni Avdija if they keep the #2 pick.

He’s 6’9” and can handle the ball and make plays. Perfect point forward off the bench and can also play alongside Draymond when Dray is at the 5.

He could end up a bust as the next Mario Hezonja, but it seems like Warriors are willing to take a gamble on someone like him or even Tyrese Haliburton (they’d have to trade down for Tyrese though.) I feel like they’re looking at the team as a championship contender whether they select a great rookie or not, so in that case might as well gamble.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#22 » by tarantism » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:15 pm

Draft Wiseman, TPE on Taurean Prince, use the MLE on Augustin and sign GR3 for minimum.

Looney/Wiseman/Chriss
Green/Paschall/Smiley
Wiggins/Prince/GR3
Thompson/Lee/Poole
Curry/Augustin/

Or trade down to 8ish and draft Hayes/Okoro/Vassell. Use the TPE on Dwayne Dedmon, sign Harkless for the MLE and sign Raul Neto and GR3 to the minimum.

Dedmon/Looney/Chriss
Green/Harkless/Paschall
Wiggins/Okoro/GR3
Thompson/Lee/Poole
Curry/Neto

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Melo and amare should thrive in this offense. If Jeremy Tyler and cole Aldridge looked that good in summer league then us knick fans have a lot to be excited about. Make room for all the bandwagoners when we take off
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#23 » by GQ Hot Dog » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:37 pm

tarantism wrote:Draft Wiseman, TPE on Taurean Prince, use the MLE on Augustin and sign GR3 for minimum.

Looney/Wiseman/Chriss
Green/Paschall/Smiley
Wiggins/Prince/GR3
Thompson/Lee/Poole
Curry/Augustin/

Or trade down to 8ish and draft Hayes/Okoro/Vassell. Use the TPE on Dwayne Dedmon, sign Harkless for the MLE and sign Raul Neto and GR3 to the minimum.

Dedmon/Looney/Chriss
Green/Harkless/Paschall
Wiggins/Okoro/GR3
Thompson/Lee/Poole
Curry/Neto

Sent from my LM-X220PM using RealGM mobile app


The consensus around the league seems to be that we would be doing BKN a huge favor if we took Prince off their hands. I would do it if there weren't an better options and we were compensated for it.

But I'm totally enamored of taking Dedmon into the TPE. He's got an outside shot and has the length and quickness to guard a variety of different centers.

I don't think Augustin moves the needs enough to give him anything above the vet min.

Harkless for the MLE I like so your second plan appeals to me more particularly if the pick is Patrick Williams.

Curry/Poole/Bowman
Thompson/Lee/(Mulder or Ryan Taylor)
Wiggins/Williams/GR3
Green/Paschall/Harkless
Dedmon/Chriss/Looney
Bob Meyers, June 7, 2018: "“It’s not in my job description to please NBA fans. It’s to win, end of story. I don’t need to be entertained, I just need to win. That’s all it is. That’s all I was hired to do. Win.”
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#24 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:55 pm

Needs:

PG backup ... Does Bowman or Poole step up and earn that PT or do they need to bring someone in?

Shooting ... 2nd round pick or the list of contenders in the Dubble or trade down in the 1st to take on the risk of a list of maybe good NBA shooters.

Interior defense ... Dray, Looney, Chriss are good interior defenders in the modern NBA, but they can use help. Nerlens Noel, Christian Wood, Willy Hernangomez, etc ... several TPMLE possibilities too.

Rebounding ... defensive rebounding numbers are over-rated. There are several rebounding beasts in the draft, some in the 2nd round and Wiseman, Smith, Oturu would certainly fit the bill at opposite ends of the 1st.

All of those positions are essentially functional without adding any new players to the roster.

Wing defenders/veteran role player/leader ... This is a problem. Wiggins HAS to show a consistent high effort on the defensive end. If he does he can be well above average, but there is no history to support that as likely. Okoro is the best defender in the draft to me and the only one who could have a significant impact on the Warriors in year 1. Vassell and Haliburton are fundamentally decent defenders but more limited than Okoro. Robert Covington, Wes Matthews, Pat Beverly, Marcus Smart, Eric Bledsoe, Kris Dunn, are veterans who can defend at a high level though 4 of them are more PG than wings. Ben Simmons would cost Wiggins and more but he would certainly firm up the wing defender/veteran/leader position.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#25 » by SF_Warriors » Yesterday 7:54 pm

If they draft wiseman, that could fix the rebounding and interior defense issues somewhere down the line. Lamelo would help with secondary playmaking.. I think whoever they draft or player they acquire with the #2 will help with at least one of those issues.

They can use the MLE to address shooting or perimeter defense, vet min as well.

I'm hoping that after FA period is over, that the team has addressed at least 3-4 of those issues. Maybe not sufficiently, but enough where its not a glaring hole like it is now.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#26 » by SF_Warriors » Yesterday 8:10 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:Needs:

PG backup ... Does Bowman or Poole step up and earn that PT or do they need to bring someone in?

Shooting ... 2nd round pick or the list of contenders in the Dubble or trade down in the 1st to take on the risk of a list of maybe good NBA shooters.

Interior defense ... Dray, Looney, Chriss are good interior defenders in the modern NBA, but they can use help. Nerlens Noel, Christian Wood, Willy Hernangomez, etc ... several TPMLE possibilities too.

Rebounding ... defensive rebounding numbers are over-rated. There are several rebounding beasts in the draft, some in the 2nd round and Wiseman, Smith, Oturu would certainly fit the bill at opposite ends of the 1st.

All of those positions are essentially functional without adding any new players to the roster.

Wing defenders/veteran role player/leader ... This is a problem. Wiggins HAS to show a consistent high effort on the defensive end. If he does he can be well above average, but there is no history to support that as likely. Okoro is the best defender in the draft to me and the only one who could have a significant impact on the Warriors in year 1. Vassell and Haliburton are fundamentally decent defenders but more limited than Okoro. Robert Covington, Wes Matthews, Pat Beverly, Marcus Smart, Eric Bledsoe, Kris Dunn, are veterans who can defend at a high level though 4 of them are more PG than wings. Ben Simmons would cost Wiggins and more but he would certainly firm up the wing defender/veteran/leader position.


Bottom teams in terms of defensive rebounding last season:
Bulls
Hornets
Wizards
Pistons
Warriors
Kings
Cavs

Those were some of the worst teams in the nba. Defensive rebounding makes a difference. 12 of the 16 playoff teams finished in top 15 for defensive rebounding.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#27 » by TB » Yesterday 8:24 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:Needs:

PG backup ... Does Bowman or Poole step up and earn that PT or do they need to bring someone in?

Shooting ... 2nd round pick or the list of contenders in the Dubble or trade down in the 1st to take on the risk of a list of maybe good NBA shooters.

Interior defense ... Dray, Looney, Chriss are good interior defenders in the modern NBA, but they can use help. Nerlens Noel, Christian Wood, Willy Hernangomez, etc ... several TPMLE possibilities too.

Rebounding ... defensive rebounding numbers are over-rated. There are several rebounding beasts in the draft, some in the 2nd round and Wiseman, Smith, Oturu would certainly fit the bill at opposite ends of the 1st.

All of those positions are essentially functional without adding any new players to the roster.

Wing defenders/veteran role player/leader ... This is a problem. Wiggins HAS to show a consistent high effort on the defensive end. If he does he can be well above average, but there is no history to support that as likely. Okoro is the best defender in the draft to me and the only one who could have a significant impact on the Warriors in year 1. Vassell and Haliburton are fundamentally decent defenders but more limited than Okoro. Robert Covington, Wes Matthews, Pat Beverly, Marcus Smart, Eric Bledsoe, Kris Dunn, are veterans who can defend at a high level though 4 of them are more PG than wings. Ben Simmons would cost Wiggins and more but he would certainly firm up the wing defender/veteran/leader position.


Bottom teams in terms of defensive rebounding last season:
Bulls
Hornets
Wizards
Pistons
Warriors
Kings
Cavs

Those were some of the worst teams in the nba. Defensive rebounding makes a difference. 12 of the 16 playoff teams finished in top 15 for defensive rebounding.


To be fair, those rankings are TOTAL defensive rebounds from what I can tell. And those teams get alot less opportunities at defensive rebounds because they don't stop alot of teams from making shots. Likewise, the top teams defend so well that they have more D Reb opportunities.

If you look at D rebound rate, it's not as clear of a story that D rebounding is key. Yes, the top 3 teams are are good playoff teams, and the bottom 3 are non playoff teams. But you still have 5 playoff teams in the bottom 10 and 6 playoff teams in the top 10.

Does it help to be good at defensive rebounding? Of course, but BY FAR the most important correlation with winning is offensive eFG and defensive eFG. Ya I know, pretty obvious. But the 16 playoffs teams were top 18 in both of these categories. Even things like turnovers and fouling aren't as huge as everyone makes it out to be.

The game is pretty simple, make shots and stop teams from making shots. The rest will work itself out.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#28 » by SF_Warriors » Yesterday 8:38 pm

TB wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:Needs:

PG backup ... Does Bowman or Poole step up and earn that PT or do they need to bring someone in?

Shooting ... 2nd round pick or the list of contenders in the Dubble or trade down in the 1st to take on the risk of a list of maybe good NBA shooters.

Interior defense ... Dray, Looney, Chriss are good interior defenders in the modern NBA, but they can use help. Nerlens Noel, Christian Wood, Willy Hernangomez, etc ... several TPMLE possibilities too.

Rebounding ... defensive rebounding numbers are over-rated. There are several rebounding beasts in the draft, some in the 2nd round and Wiseman, Smith, Oturu would certainly fit the bill at opposite ends of the 1st.

All of those positions are essentially functional without adding any new players to the roster.

Wing defenders/veteran role player/leader ... This is a problem. Wiggins HAS to show a consistent high effort on the defensive end. If he does he can be well above average, but there is no history to support that as likely. Okoro is the best defender in the draft to me and the only one who could have a significant impact on the Warriors in year 1. Vassell and Haliburton are fundamentally decent defenders but more limited than Okoro. Robert Covington, Wes Matthews, Pat Beverly, Marcus Smart, Eric Bledsoe, Kris Dunn, are veterans who can defend at a high level though 4 of them are more PG than wings. Ben Simmons would cost Wiggins and more but he would certainly firm up the wing defender/veteran/leader position.


Bottom teams in terms of defensive rebounding last season:
Bulls
Hornets
Wizards
Pistons
Warriors
Kings
Cavs

Those were some of the worst teams in the nba. Defensive rebounding makes a difference. 12 of the 16 playoff teams finished in top 15 for defensive rebounding.


To be fair, those rankings are TOTAL defensive rebounds from what I can tell. And those teams get alot less opportunities at defensive rebounds because they don't stop alot of teams from making shots. Likewise, the top teams defend so well that they have more D Reb opportunities.

If you look at D rebound rate, it's not as clear of a story that D rebounding is key. Yes, the top 3 teams are are good playoff teams, and the bottom 3 are non playoff teams. But you still have 5 playoff teams in the bottom 10 and 6 playoff teams in the top 10.

Does it help to be good at defensive rebounding? Of course, but BY FAR the most important correlation with winning is offensive eFG and defensive eFG. Ya I know, pretty obvious. But the 16 playoffs teams were top 18 in both of these categories. Even things like turnovers and fouling aren't as huge as everyone makes it out to be.

The game is pretty simple, make shots and stop teams from making shots. The rest will work itself out.


You are correct, but looking at DRB%, hornets, hawks, wiz, warriors, bulls are still amongst the worst. The rockets didnt start a center and portland was missing nurkic all season. Obviously in this game there are a ton of factors to winning with rebounding as only one. The issue with our team is, defensive rebounding is a glaring weakness. Other teams that are lower in DRB% like portland, denver, okc have at least one strong rebounding presence on their team. The top team record-wise was #1 in DRB% and the two teams in the Finals were top 7. It definitely needs to be addressed for the warriors.
We can't have looney and draymond be the best rebounders and expect to be able to contend especially on the defensive end, with our perimeter defense being questionable the way it is.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#29 » by HiRez » Yesterday 8:58 pm

Defensive rebounding is good to have, but I'll point out that in the 2015-16 playoffs, the Warriors were #14 out of 16 teams in defensive rebounding %. In 2017-18 they were #11/16. In 2018-19, they were #11/16. The one year in those four that they didn't win the chip, they had the best ranking at #8/16.

So they've proven they can win without elite rebounding. Yes, it hurts them at times for sure and can be frustrating, but it's always been the small ball getting steals/blocks, running the floor, leading to raining 3s that has been the difference-maker for them (in all 4 playoff years between 2016-2019, Dubs ranked between #1 and #7 in points off turnovers).
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#30 » by TB » Yesterday 9:18 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:
TB wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Bottom teams in terms of defensive rebounding last season:
Bulls
Hornets
Wizards
Pistons
Warriors
Kings
Cavs

Those were some of the worst teams in the nba. Defensive rebounding makes a difference. 12 of the 16 playoff teams finished in top 15 for defensive rebounding.


To be fair, those rankings are TOTAL defensive rebounds from what I can tell. And those teams get alot less opportunities at defensive rebounds because they don't stop alot of teams from making shots. Likewise, the top teams defend so well that they have more D Reb opportunities.

If you look at D rebound rate, it's not as clear of a story that D rebounding is key. Yes, the top 3 teams are are good playoff teams, and the bottom 3 are non playoff teams. But you still have 5 playoff teams in the bottom 10 and 6 playoff teams in the top 10.

Does it help to be good at defensive rebounding? Of course, but BY FAR the most important correlation with winning is offensive eFG and defensive eFG. Ya I know, pretty obvious. But the 16 playoffs teams were top 18 in both of these categories. Even things like turnovers and fouling aren't as huge as everyone makes it out to be.

The game is pretty simple, make shots and stop teams from making shots. The rest will work itself out.


You are correct, but looking at DRB%, hornets, hawks, wiz, warriors, bulls are still amongst the worst. The rockets didnt start a center and portland was missing nurkic all season. Obviously in this game there are a ton of factors to winning with rebounding as only one. The issue with our team is, defensive rebounding is a glaring weakness. Other teams that are lower in DRB% like portland, denver, okc have at least one strong rebounding presence on their team. The top team record-wise was #1 in DRB% and the two teams in the Finals were top 7. It definitely needs to be addressed for the warriors.
We can't have looney and draymond be the best rebounders and expect to be able to contend especially on the defensive end, especially with our perimeter defense being questionable.


Great points.

I do think we can get back to middle of the pack which is all we need (never been a top 10 DR% team during our 5 year finals run). Just need:

1) Healthy Draymond - he's consistently 21-23% rate which is very good for a 4/5.
2) Chriss earning more minutes - he's always been 22-24% which is very good for a 4/5.
3) Adding a big that is a great rebounder - think Jonas Valanciunas.. anything over 25% is elite, and he's always around 30 which has him in the top 5-10 of nba. Really any additional help because Looney, Paschall, Smiley and whoever else we currently have are all bad rebounders.
4) MLE/TPE ideally are wings that board better than Klay/Wiggins who are both bad rebounders.
5) Healthy Steph - yes, sounds funny but he's consistently top 10 rebounder for PGs.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#31 » by SF_Warriors » Yesterday 9:27 pm

HiRez wrote:Defensive rebounding is good to have, but I'll point out that in the 2015-16 playoffs, the Warriors were #14 out of 16 teams in defensive rebounding %. In 2017-18 they were #11/16. In 2018-19, they were #11/16. The one year in those four that they didn't win the chip, they had the best ranking at #8/16.

So they've proven they can win without elite rebounding. Yes, it hurts them at times for sure and can be frustrating, but it's always been the small ball getting steals/blocks, running the floor, leading to raining 3s that has been the difference-maker for them (in all 4 playoff years between 2016-2019, Dubs ranked between #1 and #7 in points off turnovers).


We just don't have the perimeter defensive talent like we did during those years (2017 & 2018), nor do we have elite top end offense anymore or great depth to offset some of those deficiencies. I do agree teams can win being average or below average in that dept but those teams typically have stronger perimeter defensive personnel. 2016 cavs were top 5, 2012 heat were top 10, 2014 spurs were top 5. We were at least average in 2015.. As long as we can upgrade in any areas of need I will be happy. I am not saying prioritize rebounding over everything but it is an area I feel needs to be addressed in some way for next season.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#32 » by SF_Warriors » Yesterday 9:35 pm

TB wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
TB wrote:
To be fair, those rankings are TOTAL defensive rebounds from what I can tell. And those teams get alot less opportunities at defensive rebounds because they don't stop alot of teams from making shots. Likewise, the top teams defend so well that they have more D Reb opportunities.

If you look at D rebound rate, it's not as clear of a story that D rebounding is key. Yes, the top 3 teams are are good playoff teams, and the bottom 3 are non playoff teams. But you still have 5 playoff teams in the bottom 10 and 6 playoff teams in the top 10.

Does it help to be good at defensive rebounding? Of course, but BY FAR the most important correlation with winning is offensive eFG and defensive eFG. Ya I know, pretty obvious. But the 16 playoffs teams were top 18 in both of these categories. Even things like turnovers and fouling aren't as huge as everyone makes it out to be.

The game is pretty simple, make shots and stop teams from making shots. The rest will work itself out.


You are correct, but looking at DRB%, hornets, hawks, wiz, warriors, bulls are still amongst the worst. The rockets didnt start a center and portland was missing nurkic all season. Obviously in this game there are a ton of factors to winning with rebounding as only one. The issue with our team is, defensive rebounding is a glaring weakness. Other teams that are lower in DRB% like portland, denver, okc have at least one strong rebounding presence on their team. The top team record-wise was #1 in DRB% and the two teams in the Finals were top 7. It definitely needs to be addressed for the warriors.
We can't have looney and draymond be the best rebounders and expect to be able to contend especially on the defensive end, especially with our perimeter defense being questionable.


Great points.

I do think we can get back to middle of the pack which is all we need (never been a top 10 DR% team during our 5 year finals run). Just need:

1) Healthy Draymond - he's consistently 21-23% rate which is very good for a 4/5.
2) Chriss earning more minutes - he's always been 22-24% which is very good for a 4/5.
3) Adding a big that is a great rebounder - think Jonas Valanciunas.. anything over 25% is elite, and he's always around 30 which has him in the top 5-10 of nba. Really any additional help because Looney, Paschall, Smiley and whoever else we currently have are all bad rebounders.
4) MLE/TPE ideally are wings that board better than Klay/Wiggins who are both bad rebounders.
5) Healthy Steph - yes, sounds funny but he's consistently top 10 rebounder for PGs.


Yea, it will be interesting to see what this FO does over the offseason. There is alot of options on the table. Not at all predictable like we've had it become the past few years, which is exciting but unnerving. The team has so many needs but with a veteran core. I'm sure there are many team building philosophies that conflict with each other but not necessarily one side is dead wrong or 100% correct. Hopefully the FO achieves a balance that works for the team.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#33 » by TB » Yesterday 9:38 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:Yea, it will be interesting to see what this FO does over the offseason. There is alot of options on the table. Not at all predictable like we've had it become the past few years, which is exciting but unnerving. The team has so many needs but with a veteran core. I'm sure there are many team building philosophies that conflict with each other but not necessarily one side is dead wrong or 100% correct. Hopefully the FO achieves a balance that works for the team.


This 100%.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#34 » by jamesnamida » Yesterday 10:16 pm

Shooting (we looked clearly outmatched vs raptors when klay went out. Outside of curry and klay we don't have as many good shooters as other top 3point teams)
and more atheletes for rebounding/defense.
Also need more curry on the ball too, especially in the playoffs. This isn't 2015/2016 anymore.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#35 » by Scoots1994 » Yesterday 10:32 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:Needs:

PG backup ... Does Bowman or Poole step up and earn that PT or do they need to bring someone in?

Shooting ... 2nd round pick or the list of contenders in the Dubble or trade down in the 1st to take on the risk of a list of maybe good NBA shooters.

Interior defense ... Dray, Looney, Chriss are good interior defenders in the modern NBA, but they can use help. Nerlens Noel, Christian Wood, Willy Hernangomez, etc ... several TPMLE possibilities too.

Rebounding ... defensive rebounding numbers are over-rated. There are several rebounding beasts in the draft, some in the 2nd round and Wiseman, Smith, Oturu would certainly fit the bill at opposite ends of the 1st.

All of those positions are essentially functional without adding any new players to the roster.

Wing defenders/veteran role player/leader ... This is a problem. Wiggins HAS to show a consistent high effort on the defensive end. If he does he can be well above average, but there is no history to support that as likely. Okoro is the best defender in the draft to me and the only one who could have a significant impact on the Warriors in year 1. Vassell and Haliburton are fundamentally decent defenders but more limited than Okoro. Robert Covington, Wes Matthews, Pat Beverly, Marcus Smart, Eric Bledsoe, Kris Dunn, are veterans who can defend at a high level though 4 of them are more PG than wings. Ben Simmons would cost Wiggins and more but he would certainly firm up the wing defender/veteran/leader position.


Bottom teams in terms of defensive rebounding last season:
Bulls
Hornets
Wizards
Pistons
Warriors
Kings
Cavs

Those were some of the worst teams in the nba. Defensive rebounding makes a difference. 12 of the 16 playoff teams finished in top 15 for defensive rebounding.


But those teams did have players with good defensive rebounding numbers. The Cavs had Love, Thompson, and Drummond who all get good to very good rebounding numbers, and yet they suck overall. My point was that "elite rebounders" are over-rated and that supports it.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#36 » by TB » Yesterday 11:03 pm

The Cavs were a good rebounding team. 3rd in offensive rebounding and 16th in defensive rebounding. And that was with Drummond only there for 8 games. If they have all 3 of those players next year, they will probably be a top 5 rebounding team.

Rebounding is good, but a team that can't score or stop teams from scoring is going to suck regardless of their rebounding ability. We need versatile defenders and shooters more than anything.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#37 » by SF_Warriors » Yesterday 11:18 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:Needs:

PG backup ... Does Bowman or Poole step up and earn that PT or do they need to bring someone in?

Shooting ... 2nd round pick or the list of contenders in the Dubble or trade down in the 1st to take on the risk of a list of maybe good NBA shooters.

Interior defense ... Dray, Looney, Chriss are good interior defenders in the modern NBA, but they can use help. Nerlens Noel, Christian Wood, Willy Hernangomez, etc ... several TPMLE possibilities too.

Rebounding ... defensive rebounding numbers are over-rated. There are several rebounding beasts in the draft, some in the 2nd round and Wiseman, Smith, Oturu would certainly fit the bill at opposite ends of the 1st.

All of those positions are essentially functional without adding any new players to the roster.

Wing defenders/veteran role player/leader ... This is a problem. Wiggins HAS to show a consistent high effort on the defensive end. If he does he can be well above average, but there is no history to support that as likely. Okoro is the best defender in the draft to me and the only one who could have a significant impact on the Warriors in year 1. Vassell and Haliburton are fundamentally decent defenders but more limited than Okoro. Robert Covington, Wes Matthews, Pat Beverly, Marcus Smart, Eric Bledsoe, Kris Dunn, are veterans who can defend at a high level though 4 of them are more PG than wings. Ben Simmons would cost Wiggins and more but he would certainly firm up the wing defender/veteran/leader position.


Bottom teams in terms of defensive rebounding last season:
Bulls
Hornets
Wizards
Pistons
Warriors
Kings
Cavs

Those were some of the worst teams in the nba. Defensive rebounding makes a difference. 12 of the 16 playoff teams finished in top 15 for defensive rebounding.


But those teams did have players with good defensive rebounding numbers. The Cavs had Love, Thompson, and Drummond who all get good to very good rebounding numbers, and yet they suck overall. My point was that "elite rebounders" are over-rated and that supports it.



I think it is overrated in the sense that your team can still suck even with an elite rebounder or two on the roster, or even if your team is a great rebounding team overall, but you generally dont want it as a weakness, either. The cavs had good rebounders, but were overall below average in DRB%, so I am not quite sure how it supports your claim if the team itself is on the lower end of defensive rebounding numbers and they suck. So you are basically saying that a team who was 17th in DRB% is proof that defensive rebounding is overrated? Doesnt make sense to me.

Bucks were #1 in DRB%, Heat and Lakers were both top 7..I think that is more indicative of how defensive rebounding can help a team win combined with other factors of course such as perimeter/interior defense and versatility.

Many of the past 10-15 champions were top 15 or so in DRB%, with the only real exception being the warriors with one of the most stacked collection of perimeter talent in nba history, or the heat who had a pretty ridiculous collection of wing talent in their own right (bron, wade, battier, allen)

Lakers - 7th
Raps - 15th
Warriors - 29th
warriors - 25th
Cavs - 5th
Warriors - 18th
Spurs - 5th
Heat - 23rd
Heat - 4th
Mavs - 7th
Lakers - 9th
Lakers- 17th
Celts - 8th
Spurs - 3rd
Heat - 1st


But yes, you definitely can win without being a good defensive rebounding team, although it obviously helps. I think in our case it is a glaring weakness and we do not have the talent or depth to offset it. So unless a team has elite wing talent on both ends, I think rebounding, especially defensive, is important.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#38 » by Scoots1994 » Today 1:27 am

SF_Warriors wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Bottom teams in terms of defensive rebounding last season:
Bulls
Hornets
Wizards
Pistons
Warriors
Kings
Cavs

Those were some of the worst teams in the nba. Defensive rebounding makes a difference. 12 of the 16 playoff teams finished in top 15 for defensive rebounding.


But those teams did have players with good defensive rebounding numbers. The Cavs had Love, Thompson, and Drummond who all get good to very good rebounding numbers, and yet they suck overall. My point was that "elite rebounders" are over-rated and that supports it.



I think it is overrated in the sense that your team can still suck even with an elite rebounder or two on the roster, or even if your team is a great rebounding team overall, but you generally dont want it as a weakness, either. The cavs had good rebounders, but were overall below average in DRB%, so I am not quite sure how it supports your claim if the team itself is on the lower end of defensive rebounding numbers and they suck. So you are basically saying that a team who was 17th in DRB% is proof that defensive rebounding is overrated? Doesnt make sense to me.

Bucks were #1 in DRB%, Heat and Lakers were both top 7..I think that is more indicative of how defensive rebounding can help a team win combined with other factors of course such as perimeter/interior defense and versatility.

Many of the past 10-15 champions were top 15 or so in DRB%, with the only real exception being the warriors with one of the most stacked collection of perimeter talent in nba history, or the heat who had a pretty ridiculous collection of wing talent in their own right (bron, wade, battier, allen)

Lakers - 7th
Raps - 15th
Warriors - 29th
warriors - 25th
Cavs - 5th
Warriors - 18th
Spurs - 5th
Heat - 23rd
Heat - 4th
Mavs - 7th
Lakers - 9th
Lakers- 17th
Celts - 8th
Spurs - 3rd
Heat - 1st


But yes, you definitely can win without being a good defensive rebounding team, although it obviously helps. I think in our case it is a glaring weakness and we do not have the talent or depth to offset it. So unless a team has elite wing talent on both ends, I think rebounding, especially defensive, is important.


Yes, being a bad defensive rebounding team is not good, but my point was that individual defensive rebounding counting stats for players are over-rated.

One other data point, we have no idea if Klay can be a good defensive rebounder because it has literally never been his job. Steph stays back to start the fast break if he can get the ball quickly, bigs start at or near the baseline and are generally slower and, well, bigger so they are in position and built to grab defensive boards, Klay (and Wiggins for that matter) have generally been tasked with getting to the other end of the court quickly and that makes them less likely to get the "easy" boards that so often make up those defensive rebound counting stats.

OFFENSIVE rebounding is VERY valuable on the other hand, and the players who are good at it tend to get decent defensive rebounding numbers too because the effort and attention is there.

And as others have pointed out, the Warriors have intentionally not tried to focus on rebounds because they chose to emphasize other parts of offense and defense to the detriment of their rebounding stats.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#39 » by Mylie10 » Today 2:48 am

To me the real key is defensive FG%. You get top five or ten in that category and you’re doing something.

Of course to do that you need Iguodala and guys like him to guard on the perimeter. We can rebound as a unit if we have to.
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Re: What we are lacking 

Post#40 » by Little Digger » Today 3:01 am

Without Okoro I just don’t see it ..Wiggins and Klay ..no Iguodala..= uh oh..better find somebody who can defend 3 or 4 positions
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